Any indian guy success stories in the USA you know personally?

[The Armani Code]

As an American guy of Indian heritage (that's the country, not native americans), I feel like I am one of the very few Indian guys (in this situation the only) in my area that is having any success at all. It seems like even Asian guys in my area have it together and are pulling hot girls of other races, black and white guys have had success for a while, and latinos from my experience do well with girls of many races as well.

I have even met a couple of Middle Eastern/Arab guys who are highly sought after by women of other races despite all the negative stereotypes against them.

Now the reason I worry about this at times is because I feel like I have no role model to look up to or any guy I can relate with. I never had an Indian guy that I could emulate or learn from.

Most of the men in my family are a joke, I love my dad but the last thing he is in the world is a chick magnet. Most Indian guys I meet in my area are either arrange married (older) or just lonely guys not having much success at all. I have managed to get a few dates from some cute girls and have racked up a lay this year as well (brunette 7) but after seeing all I have been seeing, it depresses me to see that this is how awful men of my ethnic background are doing in the USA.

Ever since coming on to girlschase and reading the material here, I have made it my long term goal to become a natural that consistently has above average and good looking women in his life. The issue is that while I do know of white, black, latino, and even asian naturals who are doing well in the game, I know I am not like them. I know that to the world and to almost every girl I run into, I am primarily a brown guy.

It seems like in the USA, Indian guys seem to get hit the hardest on the dating scene (some OkCupid study even confirmed it).

All that said though, do you guys personally know Indian guys in the USA who have had a lot of success in the dating scene? Not talking PUAs or dating coaches but guys you have personally known in real life who happened to be of Indian descent and did well in the game.

What was so different about them?

 

[Chase]

Armani-

I just watched an interview with an Indian-ethnicity (he sounds British-born) interviewer and Robert Downey, Jr. The interviewer was exuding awkwardness the entire time, which made Downey clearly uncomfortable, and he started reflecting this too. The Indian-ethnicity interviewer delved into personal topics in an awkward, non-socially savvy way, ignoring Downey's signals that he was venturing into unwelcome territory, and ultimately was surprised when Downey ended the interview, got up, and walked out. Here's the second half of the interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfDpf5lQo68

Doggedly hung up on topics, thread-cutting inelegantly and at the wrong times, signaling awkwardness with body language, attempting to position himself as superior to his conversation partner in condescending ways... all stuff this interviewer is doing, and stuff I've seen far more Indian men do in general than I'd care to say. It's a case study in social ladder climbing in inelegant ways at precisely the wrong times.

80% of the time I talk to any Indian guy, I have this stuff done to me, and have to exit the conversation, or ignore him / dismiss him if he's hanging around in a group I'm in. Doesn't seem to matter if he's from India or he's first-generation born in the West (the few second-generation Western Indian men I've met seem to be free of the constant status-jockeying, I've noticed).

This interview pinpointed to me a lot of the things I see the Indian guys who are struggling do wrong - they don't read social cues well, they act awkward and uncomfortable, and the go into awkward territory guns blazing and act shocked or resentful when others walk out. They try to social ladder climb almost instinctively, which comes across as more a fear-based gut reaction than anything; he's so concerned that people are going to view him as low value that he scrambles to position himself as superior to them, leading to them walking away from him in disgust and him wondering what happened.

This isn't all Indians by any imagination. One of our new writers (his article's going up today, actually) is half-Indian; I knew an Indian guy in Southern California who was still a little off, but otherwise quite smooth; and there are examples in Indian media, too... at least one of the guys in 3 Idiots as I recall came across exceptional laid back, confident, and in-command.

The issue that I see a lot of Indian men having is the same one that the ultra-nerdy white guys have: social calibration. They come in with a sledgehammer when they should use a scalpel. Problem is they're so used to using sledgehammers with people that they don't even see the value of a scalpel, nor have much idea how to wield one effectively.

Another issue I see is that Indian men mostly try to be impressive within the system: their claims to fame are "Look how much money I have / look how much status I have / look how impressive my car is / look how prestigious my job is / look how good the school I go to is" and other such things. But Western women live in a world of abundance - money, status, and prestige are not issues for them. If she wants money, she can go to a high end club, walk to a VIP table, and shag an investment banker worth millions that night. If she wants prestige she can get a job in the corporate world, make herself look sexy, and pretty soon her boss's boss's boss is hitting on her since there are so few actually sexy women working in corporate. And so on and so forth.

There are more than enough high status men to go around in the West. It isn't impressive to be that alone. It's only part of the equation.

Western women want the bad boy who breaks the rules: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-b ... ss-formula

These seem to be the two biggest issues socially uncalibrated men in general run into, whether white, brown, yellow, or whatever the skin color:

• They're socially unaware, make people uncomfortable wherever they go, and unknowingly commit reams of faux pas (Guru-Murthy does most of this in the interview too, by the way - especially the last one in that article linked; he also makes another major faux pas, which is bringing up conversations your interlocutor has had with other people - you weren't involved, it's in the past, if you want to touch on that topic get to it naturally instead of trying to drag unrelated incidents in)

• They try to impress women by competing within the system, when what attracts Western women are the men who break the rules (you can be impressive within the system as well, but you've got to be TOP within the system - your Audi A8 doesn't impress her just because she works at a taco stand; she has men hitting on her who drive Ferraris)

(not knowing you personally, and not having seen enough of your posts, Armani, I don't know if this is you personally, and sometimes social calibration is difficult to tell from text alone - however, this is what I've seen from probably the majority of Indian men I've encountered from the West, and it's their major impediment to getting along properly with other Westerners)

Chase

 

[The Armani Code]

Chase,

Thanks for taking the time out to be straightforward about all of this, I admire that. I have also found what you have said to be true about a lot of the immigrant Indian men, especially the ones who are trying to play within the system. Not to play devil's advocate here too much, but there is also heavy family pressure on these guys as well to be that way. A lot of Indian boys are discouraged from going into athletics and enjoying social life, everything is about academics and parents prize that in their kids. Just become a doctor and everything will be okay, this has made me sick to my stomach and eventually made me break apart from my overbearing parents.

No doubt that the way many Indian men are raised impact their results with American women (which are awful), but my other fear is that it is also due to things such as unflattering stereotypes and ethnic appearance. At times I feel like a lot of the better looking women in the USA are out of my league due to my ethnic appearance and nothing else. Like just something about being Indian turns American women off immediately and I am not going to go around lying and telling girls I am latino either. Even though I have slowly started to have success, at times I feel that I will never be able to pull the hottest girls out there in the USA because of my ethnic appearance and nothing else.

The reason I posted this thread is because I wanted to hear of the few exceptions. Many days I have just prayed and wished that maybe one day, just one day, I meet an Indian guy in the USA who is living the kind of life I want to live. The Indian guy who is having a lot of success with women in America and is a "natural" as you call it on your blog posts. Just one, I mean just one will do. At this point I feel like I am having to carry my entire race on my back and prove to the USA that we are not all these socially awkward types that you speak of (even though a good number of us are). I mean that is what gets me, I have never met an Indian guy in my life who has managed to own it.

This makes me feel bad about my situation too, you see, I had to go through the trauma of Indian parenting and I am happy I broke out of it when I did but I am afraid it is far too late for me to truly achieve great results in the USA. At times I feel like I need a guy who has the same ethnic appearance as me and has managed to do amazing to share his experience so I can learn from him too. Unfortunately, my experience won't be the same as a tall white guy, even though I am a tall and pretty decent looking Indian guy.

 

[GeneralFap]

Here's a podcast with an Indian guy named "Magic." Here's a podcast with him about how he reached success with women in America:

http://www.craftofcharisma.com/blog/201 ... nd_dating/

 

[The Armani Code]

I was not asking about PUAs, just Indian guys you all know personally who are more normal.

 

[Franco]

Armani Code,

Yes, I do have one friend named Amrit who does very well with women. The difference with him is that he doesn't fall into any of the social traps listed by Chase above, and he's otherwise very socially calibrated (as well as aggressive with a solid abundance mentality).

We've had guys ask a similar question before, but to be honest, I'm not really sure how much knowing this is going to help you since you can't see my friend Amrit in action. There are Indian men in the States that are good with women -- just because you haven't seen them does not mean they aren't there. For the reasons Chase has listed above, only a small percentage of Indian men have overcome these social barriers and become successful with American women.

The key is to see it like this: it's not so much that there aren't many American women interested in Indian men so much as there aren't many Indian men who are socially calibrated enough to attract American women. If you can fix your social calibration issues and become a sexy man, then there will be just as many American women interested in you as there will be American women interested in white, latin, black, or asian men.

- Franco

 

[pks391]

Hey Chase,
I'm a 23 y/o Indian guy from India. Im a student. I've been following your website for a long time. I have been reading all your posts.
I used to be totally socially uncalibrated/awkward. But after i read all your writings, i have vastly improved in my fundamentals, body language and overall ability to connect with others.
The reason i posted this.....well I'm not even sure if you will read this or not or whether it'll mean anything to you or not but THANK YOU. Thanks for changing my life, your articles helped me become the man i wanted to be. I'm still working hard to become successful at life.
I don't have any means to contact you personally so just wanted to tell it to you over here. Your website has inspired me alot. I really want to tell you my life's story one day . My journey was made loads better with your site.
Keep up the good work, someday when i start making my own money i wish to make a huge donation to your site.....provided the $ to rupee rate gets lower XD..
Thanks for everything again.
Good luck.

 

[The Armani Code]

Armani Code,

Yes, I do have one friend named Amrit who does very well with women. The difference with him is that he doesn't fall into any of the social traps listed by Chase above, and he's otherwise very socially calibrated (as well as aggressive with a solid abundance mentality).

We've had guys ask a similar question before, but to be honest, I'm not really sure how much knowing this is going to help you since you can't see my friend Amrit in action. There are Indian men in the States that are good with women -- just because you haven't seen them does not mean they aren't there. For the reasons Chase has listed above, only a small percentage of Indian men have overcome these social barriers and become successful with American women.

The key is to see it like this: it's not so much that there aren't many American women interested in Indian men so much as there aren't many Indian men who are socially calibrated enough to attract American women. If you can fix your social calibration issues and become a sexy man, then there will be just as many American women interested in you as there will be American women interested in white, latin, black, or asian men.

- Franco

Well, I have had some degree of success out there and am slowly starting to see my quality rise. Can say that to an extent I get more IOIs these days than I used to. I would personally like to hear more about your friend Amrit tbh, would be the first time I hear about the life of an Indian guy I wish I knew growing up.

All that said, I am going to assume my social calibration is not the best because I was raised by strict parents, spent a lot of my adolescence on internet forums and playing videogames, and didn't have much interactions with the opposite sex growing up.

The articles I have read by Chase on this have been:

How not to be a creepy guy

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-not-be-creepy-guy

Social Calibration:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/learn ... alibration

Can you tell me the difference between a guy that is socially calibrated and one that is not in a place like say a bar full of good looking women?

How would a socially calibrated guy act in that scenario assuming he knew nobody at that bar?

 

[Chase]

@ pks-

Glad to hear it, man, and props on your successes. We've had other guys from India write in and share some of their successes. Which also kinds of makes it funny to me when I see guys write in and say hey, can you guys do some articles on game in India, because I don't think this will work out here. I'm sure there are some superficial differences, but all the core stuff is the same. So long as you keep chipping away at social awareness and personal attractiveness, there's really no limit to how adept at this stuff you can become.

@ Armani-

In addition to the articles you've read, I'd recommend a lot of my earlier stuff, which was very focused on social calibration, including:

• Do These Things Right and Be Insanely Attractive
• Bring the Energy: Being the Life of the Party
• Conversational Technique: Tips and Tidbits
• Stillness
• Getting Past Small Talk
• Dialing Down the Value Volume
• Are You Sure?
• Archive: Ultimate Social Calibration: Stop Climbing the Social Ladder
• Secrets to Getting Girls: Nicknames and Callback
• The Law of Least Effort
• Secrets to Getting Girls: The Art of the Deep Dive
• Go With Your Gut
• Smile Warmly, Smile Sexy
• The Best Defense Is... No Defense
• Forget the Reminders
• Faux Pas of the Sociaux Nouveaux
• Why "Fun" is a Seduction Killer
• Overproviding Good Feelings
• Secrets to Getting Girls: Better Than Jerk
• Showing Interest and Keeping It
• On Being Authoritative
• Don't Get Hung Up on Topics
• Responding to Interruptions
• Treading Water and Honest Ignorance
• The Skeptical Look

That's just from my first 100 or so articles, but you get the drift.

You could boil all of this down to one mandate: "be bare".

Set the masks and pretenses aside and communicated honestly... raw.

Socially uncalibrated men seem awkward or off-putting because more calibrated people can sniff the insecurity and artificiality about them: their efforts to position themselves as authorities when they're not, their efforts to maintain the upper hand socially when they're with someone they can't beat, their efforts to tool or out-alpha others around them to gain social status or win over the group, etc.

Becoming more calibrated is really about learning two things: what to do to make things go your way, but also what to do when things aren't in your favor so that you can at least continue to stay calm and in control without looking like you're trying to hide, impress, or pretend.

You do have to go through some amount of "trying too hard" and pretending when you're still learning how to command situations, a la what we talked about in "Sprezzatura, Effort, and Investing."

The thing to keep in mind here is that the Jester is not the end destination (Jester is typically where anyone who's socially uncalibrated is; "normal" people are Peasants; the social elite are Kings); the Jester is simply someone you need to be until you amass the reference points needed to advance to normal person. If you can get to normal person / peasant level, you're already doing better than the majority of the Indian guys I've run into in the West, and you can naturally integrate with Westerners without jostling anybody too much accidentally.

Further reading:

• How to Make Friends? The Master Key to New Friendships
• Social Value and Value Imbalances

Final note: seek out reference points like crazy. Integrate with as many different social groups as possible and study how they operate. Get on Meetup.com, find social groups you can join, hang out with coworkers, join an intramural sports league, go to martial arts and make friends there, take a class like Spanish or acting or painting and spend time with those people, etc. What are the dynamics, who're the top dogs, why are they top. What makes them different from the folks in the middle - you'll notice they're usually more relaxed, more honest, barer, nicer, generally, yet also firmer. Folks in the middle are more backstab-y, like what we talked about in the social ladder article, or in this one, about a guy from Mumbai: Why the Status of Women You Sleep with Matters in Social Circle.

That's another thing I see with uncalibrated people: they think most people are beneath them, and that there's nothing there for them to learn. A curious thing in history is that the most effective, remarkable leaders are the ones who are fascinated with everyone and learn from everyone (Alexander the Great and Theodore Roosevelt are two who come immediately to mind) while there are many, many other instances in history of a leader believing he is superior to the common man, and these leaders are almost always blind and subject to dumb errors that lead their necks to the guillotine because they failed to learn enough about the various breeds of their fellow man to know what makes men tick. The truly (socially) superior man is the one able to integrate with any kind of man and be seen as a friend and confederate by all.

Chase

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I want to say that an Indian guy who has his shit together can definitely do well in the USA, at times I felt like it has actually helped me more than it has hurt me. Have slept with attractive latinas, attractive brunettes, some foreign blondes, an extremely attractive Turkish girl, and I do exceptionally well with redheads and italian girls for some odd reason (and we have plenty of Italian descent women where I live). You definitely have options in the USA if you are an Indian guy with his shit together and can break off from the nerdy Indian stereotype.

Women are used to getting approached by, hit on, and sleeping with your typical white, black, or latino guy. What people don't understand is that a lot of people have a curiosity for different, that is why some foreign guys from Europe or Australia manage to do so well in the USA. The problem with Indian, Asian, and Middle Eastern men is that they don't have the best representation in the USA. You have foreigners that wear oversized clothes and can't even hold a conversation with women. The typical Indian guy in the USA is a lot like Raj from the Big Bang Theory, socially awkward and nerdy. A lot of it comes with the territory too, people that go into careers like science, engineering, and medicine are generally going to be nerdier and a lot less socially advanced than someone who goes into sales or athletics. Now another problem is that Indian men have their overbearing parents breathing down on their necks, this also messes up their game, it probably does more damage to their game than anything else.

As for stereotypes, look, British people have some awful stereotypes against them such as having bad teeth and being ugly, even despite all that American women love a handsome British man. Same with the French, they're seen as weak and smelly but tons of American women love them.

One thing I can say is that yes, you might run into problems with the stereotypical white girl types from suburbia, but even a lot of white guys struggle with those. Even your typical white guys have a rough time with those types of girls because well, they're just tough to get and tend to over-estimate their own worth. That said I am sure there are Indian guys on here or out there who have had some luck getting with those types as well, maybe they'll share their stories.

You will have a hard time finding role models because there is a strong correlation between race and culture, most asian and indian guys fit the negative stereotypes. Where I live, Indian and Asian men are all the same. Helicopter parents, amazing grades in school, nerdy, socially awkward, and aspirations to go to a great university. Go to college, get high grades, get high paying job, miss out on your teens and 20s, and settle down without having had much experience with social skills and dating. We even joke at how an Indian or Asian guy can get into an Ivy League school but can't land the hot blonde to save his life. A lot I have met are also neurotic, self-defeating, and loaded with insecurities about their race and ethnic background.

Thanks to this forum, you now know why the white guy who barely makes enough to get by has the hot blonde in his life while the Indian doctor is having to rely on just Indian girls for sex. The good thing is, you don't have to be just like that Indian doctor, you too can make some changes to get attractive women in your life. It might not be that hot blonde from suburban America but I have to say, the hot blonde from Europe isn't that bad.

 

[The Armani Code]

I say the biggest part that is killing me is what I see. I have never met an Indian guy here in the USA that was dating the kind of girls I find hot so I just assume it can't be done. It does all sorts of mental gymnastics on me to the point that it hurts my inner game. Sometimes I just wish I knew one guy of my race who was doing well with women.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Went to a grocery store a couple days ago and saw this tall Indian dude holding hands with this good looking redhead that had model features, all hope is not lost. I also had sex with this milf that aggressively came on to me, writing about that in the field report section right now. I don't know how big of a disadvantage having Indian looks are but I know that it can indeed be overcome. Now this is all in the northeast corner of the USA which has a reputation of being the most racially segregated part of the country where people are also very shallow and judgmental.