Anyone who pursue medical school? Was it worth it?

Niwoor222

Space Monkey
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I'm at my last year of college. I'm deciding whether to go to medical school or not.

Here's some information about what I'm thinking about.

Pros
A. It'll be paid for by my military benefits, so almost 0 debt. (Prior military in the US can get education paid for)
B. I'll never have to worry about future finances once I complete it.

Cons
A. Time Consuming.

I just turned 30 and graduating now. (about 6 years in the military and took some years to travel before deciding to go to college)
So if I pursue medical school, I'll be 37-38 give or take by the time I complete with med school + residency

I wonder if I'll be wasting my peak years because I can just rack up my experience pool traveling, picking up girls, and enjoying life.

B. I'll lose all types of social skills, relationship experience, etc for the sake of financial security for my 40s+ (About 20 years?)

There's a lot of other things but these are some of the main points.

Sacrifice my 30s for financial security for 40s+?
Or say no to med school and experience my peak years.

Any inputs for people who went through anything like this?
If you are good with Social Circle Game or you are an advanced player already. You will pass Medicine school easy and with fun, since there are hot girls in medicine school but if you are not advanced seducer, you will suffer a lot of Black Pill and you wont be avaible to do cold approach because you wont have time.
Basically getting girls in medicine school is about being that advanced seducer in your soul to make girls chase you and have it easy.

I am now in 6th year of medicine and I was becoming a player at the same time as studying medicine, so I didnt start medicine as an advanced seducer, so I had hard time because I am not usually good in social circle game
 

Headlines By Drake

Space Monkey
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I wanted to weigh in as someone who was set to go to med school and against the wishes of my parents, declined. Looking back, I believe it is one of the best decisions I ever made in my life. On one hand, you do miss out on having a profession that is highly respected by society and job stability as well. When I really got into the nuts and bolts of it, I found that medicine only makes sense for people who have a genuine interest in anatomy (no puns intended), helping others, are naturally good at life sciences, and have a personal reason that pushes them towards saving lives.

This post is not meant to discourage anyone from getting into medicine. If you have a strong affinity for the sciences, how the human body works, and a passion for certain fields within medicine, then I think it's worth the investment. I've known happy doctors that live fulfilled lives and the underlying theme is usually that passion for the subject. One of my friends broke his leg playing soccer and that got him to investigate medicine to the point of reading about orthopedics and various surgeries, this was in his teens. That passion carried him to learning about it even more and he ended up matching into that speciality as a result.

if you are like my friend, then go for it but I want to offer the other perspective too. Sadly, this is true for the majority of people that go into medicine. Most of them end up being quite depressed.

"Male doctors are 40% more likely to die from suicide than the general public."​


Here are reasons I decided against med school and a career in medicine, breaking them down in bold.

Getting into the best specialities is hard and requires schooling even after med school.

In order to be a surgeon and get into some of the desired specialities like neurosurgery and orthopedics, which pay a lot, you have to do a residency for 4 years after med school and then likely do a fellowship as well (at least its strongly preferred). The years in residency are taxing, you spend long hours with little pay as you sacrifice for your career.

Most people end up not matching for the best residencies and are often doing things like Family Medicine or Internal Medicine. While you can still make a lot more when you start working than an average joe will, there is that feeling of inferiority that the community passively rubs in your face that you are in a speciality which was not that competitive compared to a surgeon.

When you break it down more, you realize how much difference there is in elitist status. How a doctor in NYC is making all of the big bucks compared to someone in small town Idaho.

You really don't make that much money.

They list surgeons and most MDs as being wealthy but the reality is, you don't actually make that much money and anyone who knows anything about finance will attest to this. While the bankers, engineers, computer science/coders and businesspeople are making the big bucks in their twenties, you graduate medical school with six figures in debt. You are not making a buck in those years and then come residency time, you are making pennies and living like a peasant. From the ages of 22-30, you are losing money while others are starting to hit their stride.

Then you factor in that doctors have to pay for malpractice insurance and a host of other things, you realize that the pay is smaller than they advertise. You are not getting it until your 30s and for the sought after surgeries, well into your mid 30s.

You lose out on time.

I get that men are supposed to peak at an older age but those years of 22-30, you are spending them in the books. Most doctors are studying hard to not just stay in med school but constantly put themselves up for the best residencies. The courses are tough and you are constantly being evaluated to see if you know what you are doing. People do this with some careers like high finance and investment banking too but the problem here is that they are actually making the big bucks in their 20s, you are not.

You also miss out on time socializing with cool girls and naturals. While they do exist, naturals are not that common in the medical world. The few who do make it into medicine actually lose their edge because their heads are in the books and not in socializing all that much. You do hear the saying that you are the average of the 5 people you spend most of your time with right? This takes me to the next point.

The people suck.

I know society portrays doctors as Angels and there are some doctors out there who are good people. Unfortunately, medicine draws in a lot of people who aren't the best people, as scary as that may be to think about. When you look up professions with the most sociopaths, surgeons are usually near the top of that list.

When I was finishing my pre-med courses, I noticed that most of the people who were taking the MCAT with me or studying for it were the following types:

1. Asian, Indian, and Jewish kids from cut-throat families that prioritize academic status and achievement above all else. Strong parental pressure is involved here to keep these kids in.
2. Kids from rich families where the parents care a lot about how their kids are perceived.
3. Small town kids and people that genuinely want to be doctors so they can help others.

I'd say the vast majority were number 1. The people who get into medicine are less into helping others and are more into how they are perceived. As tragic as it sounds, most doctors care more of what others think of their academics and how their families perceive them than actually helping anyone.

These people can also be a drain, anyone who has been around Asian and Indian people that are gung ho about their academics knows how they can get. Everyday is a social ladder climbing competition with these people and it becomes too much to deal with. When it comes to women, most of the men are not that good and their bad traits rub off on you overtime. Most doctors get gold digger trophy wives and consider that their achievement.
 

Headlines By Drake

Space Monkey
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To also add to my previous post, I was chasing this one girl in college who was in my pre-med classes, really hot girl and a solid 8. We almost got things going but life put a lot on my plate then so I could not commit much time to being with her. We kept in touch but she went for other guys as I had a year where I took myself out of the dating pool.

The years flew by, around my mid 20s I had moved to NYC years before the pandemic had hit it and managed to get a lot more practice with my game. I was a changed guy as opposed to the dork chasing a girl out of his league. I was around 26 at the time where I get the news that she is moving to NYC for her residency

For context, it is tough to get a residency in New York City or any major US city. If I had gone the medicine route, I would not have ended up in a major city since I lacked the clear passion for it. Her first month in the city, I showed her around as I knew where the best bars in Manhattan were. I was more experienced and a different version of me. One random night, we made out and I took her home. She was one of the girls on my rotation and she regularly talked about how bad of a mistake it was for her to go into medicine.

I think she'll be very successful in the future but to think, if I had gone into medicine, there is no way that moment would have happened.
 

Niwoor222

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@Headlines By Drake
I agree. It is 100% true what you are saying.
It is rare to find naturals in the medicine world. Most doctors are beta males (and big ones). Most doctors only have 1 girl or 2 in their lifetime
Paradoxically doctors are usually high IQ and smart people but they can't get out from the social conditioning and most of their mindsets are beta male mindsets: putting girls on a pedestal, chasing women as their approach method. I was seeing how much the professor in the med school help women student more than male student. They did it unconsciously and that is because they have the society mindset that women have more value than males. Those and millions of social conditioning behaviors I was painfully watching over many many years of med school, I have to be strong to not be drawn by those mindset and becoming a beta in a socially forced way, it is fucking hard, maybe because of that you dont see womenizer and naturals in the med worlds maybe because they suspect what happen inside.
 
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Headlines By Drake

Space Monkey
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The problem with the medical field that lends itself to lacking naturals is that the cultures that would successfully push people into medicine tend to be the studious, status oriented, elitist, and no fun type of cultures. Even though I went to school in a red state instead of a California or NY, I was surprised by how many Asian, Indian, and Jewish kids there were. I'd say almost 70% of the demographic were Asians, Indians, and Jewish people.

While I have good friends from all groups, I also notice these groups tend to struggle a lot with dating and meeting women. There is this weird obsession with women and sex but when push comes to shove, these guys are uncomfortable around women. A lot of them act real awkward around girls, it's like Big Bang Theory playing out in real life.

If you are around enough of them for a long time, you tend to have it rub off on you. I saw how bad my game was when I spent my weekends studying with Asian kids compared to partying with chill guys from more laid back cultures.
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

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Oct 26, 2020
Messages
194
Most people end up not matching for the best residencies and are often doing things like Family Medicine or Internal Medicine. While you can still make a lot more when you start working than an average joe will, there is that feeling of inferiority that the community passively rubs in your face that you are in a speciality which was not that competitive compared to a surgeon.

Spot on.

They list surgeons and most MDs as being wealthy but the reality is, you don't actually make that much money and anyone who knows anything about finance will attest to this. While the bankers, engineers, computer science/coders and businesspeople are making the big bucks in their twenties, you graduate medical school with six figures in debt. You are not making a buck in those years and then come residency time, you are making pennies and living like a peasant. From the ages of 22-30, you are losing money while others are starting to hit their stride.

For my personal situation,

A. I won't have any debt since the military will pay for my prior service.
B. Time is what I'm more concerned about & def more concerned about not having time to learn seduction
I wanted to weigh in as someone who was set to go to med school and against the wishes of my parents, declined. Looking back, I believe it is one of the best decisions I ever made in my life. On one hand, you do miss out on having a profession that is highly respected by society and job stability as well. When I really got into the nuts and bolts of it, I found that medicine only makes sense for people who have a genuine interest in anatomy (no puns intended), helping others, are naturally good at life sciences, and have a personal reason that pushes them towards saving lives.

This post is not meant to discourage anyone from getting into medicine. If you have a strong affinity for the sciences, how the human body works, and a passion for certain fields within medicine, then I think it's worth the investment. I've known happy doctors that live fulfilled lives and the underlying theme is usually that passion for the subject. One of my friends broke his leg playing soccer and that got him to investigate medicine to the point of reading about orthopedics and various surgeries, this was in his teens. That passion carried him to learning about it even more and he ended up matching into that speciality as a result.

if you are like my friend, then go for it but I want to offer the other perspective too. Sadly, this is true for the majority of people that go into medicine. Most of them end up being quite depressed.

"Male doctors are 40% more likely to die from suicide than the general public."​


Here are reasons I decided against med school and a career in medicine, breaking them down in bold.

Getting into the best specialities is hard and requires schooling even after med school.

In order to be a surgeon and get into some of the desired specialities like neurosurgery and orthopedics, which pay a lot, you have to do a residency for 4 years after med school and then likely do a fellowship as well (at least its strongly preferred). The years in residency are taxing, you spend long hours with little pay as you sacrifice for your career.

Most people end up not matching for the best residencies and are often doing things like Family Medicine or Internal Medicine. While you can still make a lot more when you start working than an average joe will, there is that feeling of inferiority that the community passively rubs in your face that you are in a speciality which was not that competitive compared to a surgeon.

When you break it down more, you realize how much difference there is in elitist status. How a doctor in NYC is making all of the big bucks compared to someone in small town Idaho.

You really don't make that much money.

They list surgeons and most MDs as being wealthy but the reality is, you don't actually make that much money and anyone who knows anything about finance will attest to this. While the bankers, engineers, computer science/coders and businesspeople are making the big bucks in their twenties, you graduate medical school with six figures in debt. You are not making a buck in those years and then come residency time, you are making pennies and living like a peasant. From the ages of 22-30, you are losing money while others are starting to hit their stride.

Then you factor in that doctors have to pay for malpractice insurance and a host of other things, you realize that the pay is smaller than they advertise. You are not getting it until your 30s and for the sought after surgeries, well into your mid 30s.

You lose out on time.

I get that men are supposed to peak at an older age but those years of 22-30, you are spending them in the books. Most doctors are studying hard to not just stay in med school but constantly put themselves up for the best residencies. The courses are tough and you are constantly being evaluated to see if you know what you are doing. People do this with some careers like high finance and investment banking too but the problem here is that they are actually making the big bucks in their 20s, you are not.

You also miss out on time socializing with cool girls and naturals. While they do exist, naturals are not that common in the medical world. The few who do make it into medicine actually lose their edge because their heads are in the books and not in socializing all that much. You do hear the saying that you are the average of the 5 people you spend most of your time with right? This takes me to the next point.

The people suck.

I know society portrays doctors as Angels and there are some doctors out there who are good people. Unfortunately, medicine draws in a lot of people who aren't the best people, as scary as that may be to think about. When you look up professions with the most sociopaths, surgeons are usually near the top of that list.

When I was finishing my pre-med courses, I noticed that most of the people who were taking the MCAT with me or studying for it were the following types:

1. Asian, Indian, and Jewish kids from cut-throat families that prioritize academic status and achievement above all else. Strong parental pressure is involved here to keep these kids in.
2. Kids from rich families where the parents care a lot about how their kids are perceived.
3. Small town kids and people that genuinely want to be doctors so they can help others.

I'd say the vast majority were number 1. The people who get into medicine are less into helping others and are more into how they are perceived. As tragic as it sounds, most doctors care more of what others think of their academics and how their families perceive them than actually helping anyone.

These people can also be a drain, anyone who has been around Asian and Indian people that are gung ho about their academics knows how they can get. Everyday is a social ladder climbing competition with these people and it becomes too much to deal with. When it comes to women, most of the men are not that good and their bad traits rub off on you overtime. Most doctors get gold digger trophy wives and consider that their achievement.

Good points here, I noticed this myself (I'm Asian) when I hung around the med school population regardless of race.
 

Kaida

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Sorry for necroing the thread lol. For a while I’ve been searching for a way to make money with location independence, and I guess back when I saw this I saved it in the back of my head while I continued searching.

And then recently I got another suggestion from a friend to do copywriting, which immediately reminded me of this post. Guess I went full circle…

Did you learn from books, online courses or what? I’m trying to find the best way to learn now, since I have a lot of free time.
 

Chase

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@Kaiderman,

Go here:


In addition to doing everything in that newsletter, I would also recommend:

  • Getting a commissioned salesman job and busting your butt to learn from the best guy there, then blow past your budget/quota for the month once you're ready. Practical face-to-face sales experience has a lot of applicability to written sales copy

  • Read some general good writing books. Stephen King's On Writing is incredible. A long-time classic is Strunk & White

Then once you've done all that and you've got money coming in with your copywriting, use that money to sign up for some good copy courses with high-level teachers.

Also at that point, find other friends around your level, have them read the book Copy Logic, and put together a group of 5-6 people who meet once a week to critique copy using the method in that book.

Once you've got a good bit more money coming in, book weekly or biweekly one-on-one coaching with the highest level coach you can find. That will supercharge you... but you'll just be throwing away your money (and it will be expensive) on a super high level guy if you're not already fairly advanced. So do all the other stops first.

Keep learning, keep going through new courses, taking more training, writing more copy, and one day you will look around and say, "Hmm. I am actually pretty good!"

Chase
 

ElChe

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space monkey
Joined
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Messages
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@Kaiderman as someone who took Chase’s copywriting advice (follow Gary Halbert’s newsletter + try to freelance), here are some thoughts:

● Not to discourage (rather to prepare), but it’s not easy. It took me a long time to finish Gary’s instructions in the newsletter Chase linked, and I was going hard. I think my lack of business knowledge made it harder tho.

People say skills like programming are tough and give you a lot of negative feedback at first. Nah bruh. I took some basic free coding courses and swept through my first coding class. It wasn't an advanced class but... copywriting to me makes coding seem easy in comparison.

● As for freelancing, it wasn’t that easy to start making money on Upwork. I submitted like 70 proposals before I bought this Upwork freelancing course by a guy named John Morris. It was pretty good and gave me a solidified strategy to get gigs on the site (I recommend it if you’re interested in making money on Upwork). However by that point my enthusiasm was kinda sapped…

From what I read and discussed on the Warrior Forum, clients just don’t wanna bet on people who don’t have results in copywriting. It’s tough… but it’s possible– I put my Upwork efforts on a pause but I had like a 1 in 5 response from the recent proposals I sent (even though I had no reviews). The people didn’t hire me for whatever reason but all it would take is one gig where I produced good results (even if for little pay), then the momentum starts.

As of now, I’ve made $1,000 through writing on the site. It all came from one client.

● Chase’s advice to get a job in sales is a great idea. Other things you could do to make money (and get "proof" of your skills) is selling your own products. It’s what everyone told me to do on the Warrior Forum lol. One guy said it’s what gives you “street cred”. And I see it as a way to learn by failure without accidentally screwing a client over.

If you need a product to sell, Gary Halbert has great insight into how you can make one in these three newsletters:

How To Get A Product To Sell If You Don't Have One Already ... And... How To Get It For Nothing!

How To "Sweeten" Your Profits!

Where The Money Is...And... How To Get It!

You could also try to get a job in copywriting (as a junior copywriter or intern, or just direct response copywriter if you think you're good enough). This guy's strategy looks legit-- especially if you combine it with sliding into recruiter's dm's on LinkedIn for open jobs posts (very first time I did this I got a response).
Or... you could aim to make money through content writing first (making money content writing is tough from what I've heard, but easier than copywriting. Might be a good start).

● And one other thing. Gary Halbert’s copywriting insight is great. Dude’s a legend and when you read his newsletter you can see how Chase took inspiration from it (it has similar high quality advice/life insight to Girlschase. Just super high value).

However the books he recommends are old as heck. Even though the insights still apply, it felt like there was a disconnect between the concepts and how I was supposed to be using them. Again i think my complete lack of business knowledge was to blame lol.

To get a general overview of what people are doing in copywriting right now (i.e. the mediums they use, where clients need writing, etc), I recommend-- in addition to following Gary's stuff-- looking at a modern marketing dude like Sabri Suby (he has a YT channel and his book is like $7). He’ll teach you an exact strategy for Google Ads, what the goal of a landing page is, and so on. Plus most of his ideas are identical to Gary's teachings
 

Mali

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I'm at my last year of college. I'm deciding whether to go to medical school or not.
It depends what you want out of your life. To become an MD is tough and long way, it’s not for everyone. I love being an MD and would have done it again with no hesitation, this time I would have chosen smarter and faster way. Money and benefits are good, but assuming you can plan your life wisely you could make way more money in other fields. You can bang more girls in other fields too, you don’t have to be a doctor or lawyer. You can have easier life by not being a doctor, but that’s why I chose to do it, it was the most difficult thing I’ve done in my life.

There is a great satisfaction in being a doc, you meet a lot of interesting people from different backgrounds, and most people demonstrate more respect towards you than you’d get in other areas. People trust you, they’ll tell you intimate details about their lives. I’ve met many high quality females looking specifically for relationship with doctors, so if you got solid game you can be very happy for the rest of your life, you don’t have to run around and keep seducing other females, trying to increase your value.

By being a doctor you hold highly desirable social position, you are setting yourself to be a leader by default, you are projecting ambitions, persistence, dominance and so on. People have to follow what you say and order without questioning. You can open business or step up on higher position, and all of these are highly desirable on sexual market place. You can make many great friends among your colleagues and patients, create huge social circle with many people on high position, which also contributes to your overall sexual market value. Nobody will question your intelligence and education because 99% people can’t match it. You can match theirs but they can’t match yours no matter what they say. So by default many high quality women will be interested in you, yet what you do with it is totally up to you.

It all depends on your overall persona you project. Are you a nerd? Athletic guy who cares about his health or fat chubby? Charismatic person or weirdo nobody can understand? Are you assertive or push over? Do you want to seduce and date tens of women, or are you looking for long term relationship? Can you really become successful writer, artist, businessman or blogger, or are you gonna seek yourself for the next 20 years trying different things with no results? Do you like challenge and competition, being around highly intelligent and motivated people? There are many other variables to consider. Again, you don’t have to become a doctor or lawyer, by by doing so you‘ll move yourself way ahead of average guy with average degree and average desires. Add some basic game and you don’t have to worry about females for the rest of your life.
 
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sunnygirl

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the cultures that would successfully push people into medicine tend to be the studious, status oriented, elitist, and no fun type of cultures. I'd say almost 70% of the demographic were Asians, Indians, and Jewish people.
Spot on! I'm Korean and Jewish, I feel like in our culture it's a plus for any gender in dating if they are studious. I'm a girl and it was really interesting reading the manosphere posts on how men just want a young woman who isn't career obsessed, because I feel like in real life it's very different as the guys I interact with want a woman who makes as much as they do and its a plus if they make more.

Right now, there is immense pressure from my peers to get into the most 'elite' colleges, I recently got accepted into top FL colleges, but as I said like attracts like. Dumb/lazy people are not looked upon favorably in either gender, and honestly I do want a pursue a high-end career, who doesn't want more money. My dad is a cataract surgeon while my mom does IT computer engineering, so its pretty much ingrained in me to work hard.

There will always be guys who think that a woman can't be career minded and feminine at the same time, but IMO it can be possible.
 

Beck Bass

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There will always be guys who think that a woman can't be career minded and feminine at the same time, but IMO it can be possible.
Yes it's very possible, my ex was relatively well off on her career (actually both my exes, when I think about it) and she was very feminine and caring (for me, at least).
I think a lot of the so "manosphere" dudes you mentioned are just intimidated because most of them are already pretty bad with girls, so when a girl has a career that is as good, if not better, than theirs, they flip out even more. So they are basically just shooting lower because they don't think they can get any better, they just justify it saying "oh career oriented women are... whatever".

But there's a valid argument to people with careers as doctors (or in medicine) being harder to date for most other people, because of the crazy schedules. It's hard for most people that don't work in hospitals to adapt to the times people that work there have free, so in this case, I think some complaints are valid (nothing to do with that "ambitious women are bad" sort of thinking, ofc)
 

sunnygirl

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Yes it's very possible, my ex was relatively well off on her career (actually both my exes, when I think about it) and she was very feminine and caring (for me, at least).
I think a lot of the so "manosphere" dudes you mentioned are just intimidated because most of them are already pretty bad with girls, so when a girl has a career that is as good, if not better, than theirs, they flip out even more. So they are basically just shooting lower because they don't think they can get any better, they just justify it saying "oh career oriented women are... whatever".

But there's a valid argument to people with careers as doctors (or in medicine) being harder to date for most other people, because of the crazy schedules. It's hard for most people that don't work in hospitals to adapt to the times people that work there have free, so in this case, I think some complaints are valid (nothing to do with that "ambitious women are bad" sort of thinking, ofc)
Definitely, the problem with the binary thinking is the assumption that there's the choice between a cold, frigid career woman or a beautiful feminine 'trad wife.' If I were to get into a relationship with a guy I'd of course make his happiness a priority, but I'd also want to have an education of my own, it's not a good idea to rely on anyone for anything. Always been my passion to pursue medicinal sciences, but maybe not to the extent of being a physician- physician assistants take home 100k a year which is more than enough for me!

Especially nowadays with inflation and the cost of everything rising, having a dual income is important and even though the manosphere preaches "career women bad!" they are the same ones who don't want to get taken advantage of by gold diggers, so if anything it's important to find a woman with at least some sort of ambition/purpose of her own.
 

Beck Bass

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hey are the same ones who don't want to get taken advantage of by gold diggers
Quite the irony if you ask me lol

if anything it's important to find a woman with at least some sort of ambition/purpose of her own.
Oh yeah, I got my own stuff to take care of, if all of her life is taking care of me (or the kids or whatever) I don't see how I'm gonna have any time for myself. There's definitely some balance to that, some people wanna be glued to their partner 24/7, some want to have their space.
 
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