Are Black People Really Being Held Down By White People?

[Cacc]

I'm sure the issue isn't black and white(no pun intended). But, I'm inclined to say no.

Black people haven't contributed much to society in terms of inventions and advancing technology like other races have.

I'm only bringing this up because the political media in the West right now is all about forming pity parties when it comes to black people of how much they are being "oppressed" and gathering up to shame the white "devils" for not letting the blacks flourish.

There was a movie that came out last year called "Get out". It's a pretty anti white movie delving into how racist white people are. It was named the best film of 2017 and one of the best of all time...

Thoughts?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Cacc,

In America, no. Hell fuck no.

While racism still exist, and in my country, they prefer Chinese as hire.

Zac

 

[Richard]

Internalized racism is still very real.

I'm inclined to say that racism isn't as overt as it once was and as generations go on the teenagers/mid-20s become more and more accepting which is a big reason we're seeing the fight for equality for LGBTQ people.

Anyway, the "damage" that's been done by past racism is still present. Studies and experiments have shown time and time again that both black and white people (I believe the black community, moreso) have both internalized sense of superiority/inferiority. Black people have always had a stigma in academics, etc. that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - black people feel like they can't perform as well SO then they don't and then statistics reflect that and that statistic is leaked out to the public which black people catch wind of so the cycle repeats.

However, it would also be extremely ignorant to think that internalized racism doesn't also do damage; microaggressions, micro-insults, etc. Black person walks past a car and suddenly you hear the "chirp chirp" of the car lock, that adds up over time.

Last but not least, the upper echelons of society are still run by old white guys who ARE more racist than the younger generations. The statistic might have changed but I think in 2014, only 4% of fortune 500 CEOs were a minority. So, the majority of wealth is held by white people, still.

-Richard

 

[Cacc]

So what you're saying is that the system currently in place is not allowing black people to flourish, correct? I agree that something is going on. Something is not allowing black people as a race to rise up and end their poverty and thrive as a whole. I'm reluctant to say that it's all because of the white man and his system. I mean, it's not just America, Africa is home to some of the world's most poorest people.

And yes, there was slavery in Africa too. The point is, why isn't the black race able to pick themselves up? Are you really going to tell me that they aren't able to prosper simply because of the system in place? There is nothing physically or legally stopping black Americans from becoming successful.

Which is why I think that there must be something in their dna, their brains that makes them too savage/primal to succeed as a community. Blacks have the highest testosterone and lowest iq of all races. That should tell you something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aV_850nzv4 Just look at black tribes who've never encountered modern humans before, they're still using sticks and stones...

 

[Richard]

So what you're saying is that the system currently in place is not allowing black people to flourish, correct? I agree that something is going on. Something is not allowing black people as a race to rise up and end their poverty and thrive as a whole. I'm reluctant to say that it's all because of the white man and his system. I mean, it's not just America, Africa is home to some of the world's most poorest people.

And yes, there was slavery in Africa too. The point is, why isn't the black race able to pick themselves up? Are you really going to tell me that they aren't able to prosper simply because of the system in place? There is nothing physically or legally stopping black Americans from becoming successful.

Which is why I think that there must be something in their dna, their brains that makes them too savage/primal to succeed as a community. Blacks have the highest testosterone and lowest iq of all races. That should tell you something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aV_850nzv4 Just look at black tribes who've never encountered modern humans before, they're still using sticks and stones...

Cacc,

I recommend you do some extra reading and studying; the whole IQ test thing reflects exactly what I said in my first post. IQ tests were invented by educated white women and reflect "white" standards which puts black people at an inherent disadvantage (as studies have shown time and time again) so saying "They have the lowest IQs" is not realistically accurate. Too many factors and variables go into a data point like that for me to be comfortable accepting that. I'm aware of the studies that suggest this but, again, they reflect a test that already has a confounding bias.

That being said, did you know that on average, third world countries with financially poor populations also tend to be more joyful and happy than America so the argument of Africa having some of the poorest people also holds no weight, in my opinion. That calls in to question what we're even talking about in terms of "success" or "thriving" because I certainly don't equate money/wealth as "success" or "happiness."

In my opinion, we're living in a society that's conditioned it's people to think and act a certain way and because white people invented the system then other white people have easier access society but black people don't. I'd say that black people put excess pressure on themselves and other black people to succeed or rise above AND THAT is the real crux of the problem. As a white man, there are 100% things that I simply don't worry about in life that I KNOW black people worry about so I, automatically, have some mental advantage due to socialization.

We can debate the philosophy of this but I am completely disagreeing that genetics or DNA has anything to do with black people being inferior. Nobody is born inferior or superior so I look to non-biological and genetic factors; namely social psychology and sociology for other answers.

-Richard

 

[Cacc]

I recommend you do some extra reading and studying; the whole IQ test thing reflects exactly what I said in my first post. IQ tests were invented by educated white women and reflect "white" standards which puts black people at an inherent disadvantage (as studies have shown time and time again) so saying "They have the lowest IQs" is not realistically accurate. Too many factors and variables go into a data point like that for me to be comfortable accepting that. I'm aware of the studies that suggest this but, again, they reflect a test that already has a confounding bias.

Here we go with the condencenscion. Ok bro let's play dirty then.

I recommend you sir do some extra reading and studying, IQ tests were first created by a French Psychologist by the name
of Alfred Binet, the iq test was later introduced to the US by Lewis Terman. I'm not sure what "white women" you are
talking about here bud?

Moving on, the IQ test is a test measuring your current, academic abilties. In general, it measures fluid reasoning,
knowledge, quantitative reasoning, visual-spatial processing, and working memory.

How exactly, are any of those skills biased towards white people? Unless you're saying it's biased becuase white people
are smarter in general than blacks? So what "white bias" are we talking about here bud? Please tell me so that I can make
sense out of the gibberish you are speaking.

Lastly, who deemed you an expert in this matter? You said that, "I am not comfortably accepting that" like you are some
kind of expert on the matter? It doesn't matter to me whether you're comfortable with my facts or not, the truth is i've
been arguing with facts this whole time while you've been arguing with feelings.

That being said, did you know that on average, third world countries with financially poor populations also tend to be more joyful and happy than America so the argument of Africa having some of the poorest people also holds no weight, in my opinion. That calls in to question what we're even talking about in terms of "success" or "thriving" because I certainly don't equate money/wealth as "success" or "happiness."

Yes I did. After all I lived the first half of my life in a 3rd world country. And yes, they are a much happier, tough,
and down to earth folk. In fact, I'm glad I was born and raised where I was. Had I not, I would be a completely different person today
(for the worse).

I've often asked myself if I would give up my country's rich culture and genuine people for technological prosperity, and
my honest answer would be no. However, I believe this is due to personal bias and emotion, I simply do not want to see my
people change and become shallow. Then again, I haven't visited in over 10 years, and now that I'm not a kid anymore,
maybe I'd appreciate prosperity more, and realize the hardships my countrymen go through everyday.

Back to the topic. What I believe to be a successful society is a system that through it's people create inventions that
help make the lives of others better and easier, and also one that goes on to advance mankinds thirst for knowledge and
creation through the advancement of technology. This is what America has done.

So it doesn't matter how you feel or how the black men feel or how I feel, the truth is that the United States and their
white men has helped make the world a better place more so than any other country. Go tell that to the thots living off
government aid. Go tell that to the media that protects black people no matter what atrocities they commit. Go tell that
to the gangbangers that kill each other off.

The white men aren't holding blacks down, blacks are holding themselves down. Who kills the most blacks? Blacks do. So you
can sit here and tell me how black people are victims of the system but guess what? This is a cold hard world and it doesn't
care about what you think you deserve. If you want something take it.

If blacks wanted success and prosperity as a community then they would be able to take it. But they don't.
They want to live off the government and complain about being victims of racism. Cry me a river.

I honestly feel bad for the white people that willingly cuck themselves by believing they are the cause of the black man's failures.

 

[Richard]

Cacc,

My apologies on the typo, I have no idea why I put white women regarding the IQ test!

That aside, you're not arguing with facts that reflect reality so do they even matter? Take a look at how many people have experimented, theorized, debated and debunked the plethora of theories on race and IQ in psychology. Ever since IQ tests came out and this "trend" was noticed it's been a pretty hot topic and, today, the entirety of the scientific community agrees that genetics/biology play no role in race or IQ.

So, with that in mind; the predominant theories are that a) the test itself is the culprit or b) social upbringing and background affect things. Black children raised in white homes (adopted children) tend to score much higher when they're younger BUT as they become teenagers their scores drop again because they become more used to environments, stimuli, and culture like those of regular black teenagers. This would lend itself to the notion that the environment (i.e. society) is the culprit because we still live in a society that marginalizes and categorizes ANYONE who doesn't fit the norm... which is why the Wheel of Privilege exists.

So it doesn't matter how you feel or how the black men feel or how I feel, the truth is that the United States and their
white men has helped make the world a better place more so than any other country. Go tell that to the thots living off
government aid. Go tell that to the media that protects black people no matter what atrocities they commit. Go tell that
to the gangbangers that kill each other off.

The white men aren't holding blacks down, blacks are holding themselves down. Who kills the most blacks? Blacks do. So you
can sit here and tell me how black people are victims of the system but guess what? This is a cold hard world and it doesn't
care about what you think you deserve. If you want something take it.

If blacks wanted success and prosperity as a community then they would be able to take it. But they don't.
They want to live off the government and complain about being victims of racism. Cry me a river.

I honestly feel bad for the white people that willingly cuck themselves by believing they are the cause of the black man's failures.

Again, we're living in a society that marginalizes and ACTIVELY puts down anyone that doesn't fit the established norm SO black people, until recently, haven't had the opportunity to be in positions to make advancements. Next time you drive your car, mow your lawn, sit on your toilet, look at your alarm clock, get a blood transplant, dry your clothes, turn on a lamp, turn on the furnace at home, stop at a traffic light or have laser eye surgery then I suggest you thank a black inventor. Guess none of that counts as an advancement though.

Lastly, it's exactly attitudes like yours that marginalize people. If every single person that walked around had the same attitude as yours then we'd end up living in anarchy. As I said above, the scientific community has agreed (since the early 1980s, I believe) that there is no biological or genetic component to race so why is there any point to saying "black people can rise up and prosper?"

I'm an existential thinker so black and white literally mean nothing to me; humans are humans. Except, the problem is that EVERYBODY wants to marginalize and categorize on both sides. I'm of the mindset that both sides are helping to create and energize the exact same problem; in summation, society (and all those who inhabit it) have created an environment where you're at an inherent disadvantage if you're not white - study after study after study supports that claim.

So, I guess I'd say my stance is that the system currently in place makes it much harder for black people to prosper BUT I also don't really care all that much about black-white social issues either because I think 99% of the population is helping contribute to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Again, existential thinker =P

 

[Rain]

That being said, did you know that on average, third world countries with financially poor populations also tend to be more joyful and happy than America so the argument of Africa having some of the poorest people also holds no weight, in my opinion. That calls in to question what we're even talking about in terms of "success" or "thriving" because I certainly don't equate money/wealth as "success" or "happiness."


We can debate the philosophy of this but I am completely disagreeing that genetics or DNA has anything to do with black people being inferior. Nobody is born inferior or superior so I look to non-biological and genetic factors; namely social psychology and sociology for other answers.

Can you expand on how nobody is born inferior? I thought some people are wired differently neurobiologically, they may be more or less serotonin based, or dopamine based, or any other chemicals etc, or is that proven to be mostly social psychology and sociology reasons that mean the chemicals are then a symptom of society and upbringing, not a cause?

So, with that in mind; the predominant theories are that a) the test itself is the culprit or b) social upbringing and background affect things. Black children raised in white homes (adopted children) tend to score much higher when they're younger BUT as they become teenagers their scores drop again because they become more used to environments, stimuli, and culture like those of regular black teenagers. This would lend itself to the notion that the environment (i.e. society) is the culprit because we still live in a society that marginalizes and categorizes ANYONE who doesn't fit the norm... which is why the Wheel of Privilege exists.

Again, we're living in a society that marginalizes and ACTIVELY puts down anyone that doesn't fit the established norm SO black people, until recently, haven't had the opportunity to be in positions to make advancements. Next time you drive your car, mow your lawn, sit on your toilet, look at your alarm clock, get a blood transplant, dry your clothes, turn on a lamp, turn on the furnace at home, stop at a traffic light or have laser eye surgery then I suggest you thank a black inventor. Guess none of that counts as an advancement though.

Lastly, it's exactly attitudes like yours that marginalize people. If every single person that walked around had the same attitude as yours then we'd end up living in anarchy. As I said above, the scientific community has agreed (since the early 1980s, I believe) that there is no biological or genetic component to race so why is there any point to saying "black people can rise up and prosper?"

I'm an existential thinker so black and white literally mean nothing to me; humans are humans. Except, the problem is that EVERYBODY wants to marginalize and categorize on both sides. I'm of the mindset that both sides are helping to create and energize the exact same problem; in summation, society (and all those who inhabit it) have created an environment where you're at an inherent disadvantage if you're not white - study after study after study supports that claim.

Would you say the same about fat women? Is it everyone is born equally, and its society that says 'you desire thin women' and that's why men desire thin women, so the previous societies that possibly valued fat women who had access to resources, was all culture based, not biology desires? What about women with 'less' hip to waist ratio, they are born that way, genetics, they can't think or gym their way out of that? But if I'm understanding you correctly, everyone is born the same, and most men don't desire 'certain' hip ratio, they desire what society tells them to desire?

I'm guessing you wouldn't give fat women a chance, you may or may not sleep with them but you'd never have a relationship with them, right? Isn't that the marginalizing that you just said as a society we should not be doing or am I missing some nuance?

 

[Richard]

Rain,

Since this thread is still arguing some philosophical points of view I'm saying that a "culture" or "race" is not born inherently inferior. There are certainly people born with brain abnormalities or hormone deficiencies but that abnormality isn't inherent to a culture, most of the time, unless it's a side effect of a mutation that's been passed down like sickle cell anemia, for example. Even that, though, was still shaped by environment.

Would you say the same about fat women? Is it everyone is born equally, and its society that says 'you desire thin women' and that's why men desire thin women, so the previous societies that possibly valued fat women who had access to resources, was all culture based, not biology desires? What about women with 'less' hip to waist ratio, they are born that way, genetics, they can't think or gym their way out of that? But if I'm understanding you correctly, everyone is born the same, and most men don't desire 'certain' hip ratio, they desire what society tells them to desire?

I'm guessing you wouldn't give fat women a chance, you may or may not sleep with them but you'd never have a relationship with them, right? Isn't that the marginalizing that you just said as a society we should not be doing or am I missing some nuance?

Yeah, this is true even historically. In feudal Europe, for example, fatter women were more desired because they had enough access to resources to even become fat so women who were pale pale white and fat were most sought after.

The second point - lots of complexities in there but I'd argue that a large portion of that is society programming ideas of attraction into people. But, this isn't really a black and white answer, either. Keep in mind that if a woman is fat then she's very likely to be marginalized (already) which affects her social interactions with people or her personal attitude which means she's marginalizing herself and those combinations of things make her a little less desirable for a relationship.

Anyway, if a woman is fat and is 100% able to live up to every expectation I have in a relationship then yeah, I might date her as long as she can reliably get my dick hard. Keep in mind that every woman in my life ends up with a different role and I don't go in "looking" or "expecting" anything from anyone so it's not fair or accurate to say I would or would not do XYZ things with ANY girl. I find it pretty stupid to burn that bridge because a fat chick definitely has the possibility to be my best match for a relationship; it's probably not likely but I can't discredit the possibility.

Lastly, no woman is born "fat" and I'd also argue that being "fat" is moreso a choice than anything else. I say that because, as an existential thinker, I think that everybody is fully responsible for themselves so if you're "fat" it's because you're letting it happen, to some degree. If that's the case then a woman who is fat potentially doesn't have the mentality/personality that's healthy for the average relationship.

Fucking tangents... =)

-Richard

 

[BlackBolt]

Cacc you're right it's not a black and white issue and looking at it as such would be short sighted. Blacks are not the only ones being held down in American society But the Working class and middle class of all races as well as everyone who is not a part of the billionaire class, donor class or the top 1%. Harvard studies show the US is no longer a democracy but an oligarchy, the same people who lead to the biggest economic crash since the great depression all walked away with bonuses/corporate welfare/and no punishment whatsoever (mostly white men on wall st) who have billions in off shore tax havens by the Way (when was the last time you were able to get out of paying taxes?). Furthermore 83% of the benefits of the recent tax cuts greatly benefit the wealthy where as the benefits to the Working class have a sunshine provision that expires in 10 years. So yes ALL Americans are being held down by rich white dudes actually.
But, you're wrong on a few things.
1. "Black people haven't contributed much to society in terms of inventions and advancing technology like other races have."
- that's demonstrably false. Let's just ignore the huge contributions in sports, entertainment, music and art. Let's look at the prosperity of America which would've been impossible becauseThere are very few crops that would have flourished because the nation was built on a slave-supported system. African Americans created elevators (Alexander Mils), Richard Spikes, a black man, invented the automatic gearshift, Joseph Gambol, also black, invented the Super Charge System for Internal Combustion Engines, and Garrett A. Morgan, a black man, invented the traffic signals.Lee Barrage invented the Type Writing Machine and W. A. Love invented the Advanced Printing Press. Lewis Later invented the Electric Lamp, etc. I could keep going but the point is that's false.
2. "Which is why I think that there must be something in their dna, their brains that makes them too savage/primal to succeed as a community"
- again false there is NO scientific data to support that. Race in fact is not genetic, race is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. There is more genetic variation in sub saharan Africa than the rest of the planet combined which means just because you look like someone doesn't mean you are the same as them genetically.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... sts-argue/
http://bigthink.com/words-of-wisdom/bil ... ng-as-race
http://bigthink.com/think-tank/bill-nye ... -construct
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/02/bill-ny ... e-species/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRxZJ5QQ-9Q
http://bigthink.com/words-of-wisdom/bil ... ng-as-race
http://bigthink.com/think-tank/bill-nye ... -construct
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/02/bill-ny ... e-species/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRxZJ5QQ-9Q
3. You do realize that we just legally got rid of Jim Crowe in America around 50 years ago right? So you have 400 years of slavery, years of legalized segregation and Jim Crowe laws following that, and then the New Jim Crowe which is seen today with the war on drugs which
A. the origin of the war on drugs was under President Nixon who wanted to take out his enemies, "the anti war left" and "black people". Weed was declared to be illegal and the war on drugs was to attack liberals out of the mouth of President Nixon's chief domestic advisor. Drug usage since the war on drugs, studies show, is at the same rate before the drug war if not worse.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nix ... 640a6bbda1
B. Blacks and whites use drugs at similar rates yet blacks are 5times more likely to get criminalized for it
C. "Go tell that to the gangbangers that kill each other off." That ties to the war on drugs if drugs were legalized, taxed and regulated this will greatly cut back on cartel activity, gang activity, and black on black crime Just like the legalization of alcohol did to the mob after prohibition.

So when whites try to say the only thing blacks need to do is pick themselves up by their bootstraps etc. Its like starting a race 80 meters ahead while the black guy starts at the actual starting line then once the race begins looking back and saying "Hey why are you so fucking slow"!

 

[SlayerNation66]

Human biodiversity (hbd) is the diversity found among and between human populations that has a biological basis. Groups of genetically related individuals can exhibit average differences in various biological aspects for example, immediate family members are more similar to each other than they are to strangers. moving outwards from that circle, extended family members are also more similar to each other genetically than they are to strangers, although less so than are immediate family members. And the circle can be extended even further to: clan and tribe members, traditional villages and regions, ethnic groups, and races, until we reach the human race where we start comparing our collective biological traits to those of other speacies: primates, mammals, veterbrates, life on earth. Small examples of human biodiversity are eye color, hair color, and skin color.hbd is not a group of people-it's the total variation of biological characteristics that all humans exhibit. Nature likes to throw up a variety-the variation between individual organism is, after all, what natural selection acts upon-and there's no reason for humans to be any exception. Various groups or populations of humans, ranging from small sized families to races will also inevitably be biologicaly diverse from one another to greater or lesser degrees, due to forces of evolution such as natural selection, gene flow, and/or genetic drift.

 

[Chase]

I'm gonna put a freeze on this topic before it gets janky.

So far I think everyone here has been mostly pretty respectful / seems to be arguing their sides in good faith. Thank you for that, gents, and it's a credit to the boards.

However, a public discussion about inflammatory political issues that aren't related to the subject of the boards isn't doing anyone any good. It's only a matter of time before someone gets upset, someone else invokes Godwin's law, and the thread explodes into something causing headaches all over the boards.

Anyone who wants to debate race issues or other hot button political issues that are not related to improving yourself as a man or getting better with women or building an awesome lifestyle, either do it in private via PM (so long as the conversation is civil and you aren't dogging the other guy about something he doesn't want to discuss) or go to a place like "Change My View" on Reddit (just found this the other day. Pretty high level of discussion there. They have a "popular topics" section that has a directories for all the hot button issues, including one on race).

If you really want to talk about race on GC, there's a place for that, but it needs to be related to one of the points of the site (i.e., you're not opening the topic just to stir the pot or get a rise out of people).

Chase