- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 6,456
We’ve been seeing some what seems to me rather defeatist behavior from a handful of members on the boards lately. It’s just a few posts here and there, but it REALLY brings down the mood of the place when it happens. It’s a real downer.
I was having some trouble nailing down exactly what this behavior was before - it’s not quite victim mentality, because full blown victim mentality victims don’t ask for help (certain as they are that no one can help them); they just lament that life is unfair and there is no way out of their dungeons and you can never help them.
Instead, what THIS behavior is is ASKING for help, and then proceeding to write off or dismiss all of the suggested solutions or sometimes even getting into an Internet brawl with the advice givers. This one was a complete mystery to me until recently.
Victim mentality I get because I’ve been there. It sucks. And it’s pretty hard to get out of because switching from victim mentality to NOT victim mentality is a total perception change - it’s switching from “I am an object acted upon by the world” to “I am an actor who acts upon the world.”
This mentality seemed to be in a different category… and while browsing a fascinating website by a very insightful psychologist who’s worked extensively with disordered personalities, I’ve figured out what it is.
It’s passive aggression.
Not the kind of passive aggression the term is used for colloquially, but REAL passive aggression - where someone asks for something, and then denies all efforts of others to provide what’s asked for, leading to maddening frustration on the part of the givers and continued dissatisfaction on the part of the asker.
Here’s an example from the site:
That’s from “Beware the Covert-Aggressive Personality.”
The main article on passive aggression there is also good, though not as insightful for what we’re seeing on the GC boards as that snippet above.
Read that snippet above and let it soak in.
Think about it.
How USELESS is this behavior?
In truth, the behavior isn’t adopted because it’s “useful” in achieving any real change in a person’s life… instead, it seems to be extreme indecisiveness about whether to hack it on your own or rely on others’ suggestions.
Now that we know what this is -
If I see this behavior from anyone here, that member will be redirected to this post and told to knock it off. DECIDE. Either decide to do it on your own - in which case, quit asking for help - OR decide to rely on the advice of others - in which case, quit protesting and just go out and do what you’re told and execute on the solutions you’re given.
If the behavior CONTINUES, that member will have his account suspended until such time as he’s prepared to be a healthy member of the boards instead of one bumming everyone out with his annoying and pointless asking and rejecting, asking and rejecting.
To clarify, here’s the passive aggressive behavior we’re talking about that it NOT allowed:
Personally, whenever I’ve asked for help, I’ve only ever had THREE (3) reactions to the suggested solutions:
Any of these responses are fine, because they’re either neutral (but gracious) or they’re constructive.
If you ASK, you are GRATEFUL. End of story. Even if you don’t use the solution, still be grateful, because people are going out of their ways to help you.
If you can’t be grateful, DON’T ASK. Figure it out on your own.
If you’re going to use the boards as some kind of pinball game back and forth between “What should I do?” and “Nah, I already tried it and that doesn’t work. Next person with a suggestion for me - what’ve you got? Nah, tried that too… Next?” you’ll get the boot until you can convince Franco or I that you’ve straightened out your act.
Recap:
You may ask for advice. If you do though, you should probably go out and immediately test that advice. If you’ve already tested it EXTENSIVELY and it doesn’t work, report what you’re doing and ask for suggestions on how to MAKE it work. If it’s so far out of the ballpark that it isn’t something you want to use, just say, “Thanks,” maybe ask if there’s any other alternatives people have tried that they’ve found effective, and then leave off after that if not. Don’t bring people down by fighting with them over help they’ve offered you after you’ve ASKED them for it… that’s just really poor, crappy behavior and none of us here will tolerate it.
Chase
I was having some trouble nailing down exactly what this behavior was before - it’s not quite victim mentality, because full blown victim mentality victims don’t ask for help (certain as they are that no one can help them); they just lament that life is unfair and there is no way out of their dungeons and you can never help them.
Instead, what THIS behavior is is ASKING for help, and then proceeding to write off or dismiss all of the suggested solutions or sometimes even getting into an Internet brawl with the advice givers. This one was a complete mystery to me until recently.
Victim mentality I get because I’ve been there. It sucks. And it’s pretty hard to get out of because switching from victim mentality to NOT victim mentality is a total perception change - it’s switching from “I am an object acted upon by the world” to “I am an actor who acts upon the world.”
This mentality seemed to be in a different category… and while browsing a fascinating website by a very insightful psychologist who’s worked extensively with disordered personalities, I’ve figured out what it is.
It’s passive aggression.
Not the kind of passive aggression the term is used for colloquially, but REAL passive aggression - where someone asks for something, and then denies all efforts of others to provide what’s asked for, leading to maddening frustration on the part of the givers and continued dissatisfaction on the part of the asker.
Here’s an example from the site:
Dr George Simon said:
That’s from “Beware the Covert-Aggressive Personality.”
The main article on passive aggression there is also good, though not as insightful for what we’re seeing on the GC boards as that snippet above.
Read that snippet above and let it soak in.
Think about it.
How USELESS is this behavior?
In truth, the behavior isn’t adopted because it’s “useful” in achieving any real change in a person’s life… instead, it seems to be extreme indecisiveness about whether to hack it on your own or rely on others’ suggestions.
Now that we know what this is -
If I see this behavior from anyone here, that member will be redirected to this post and told to knock it off. DECIDE. Either decide to do it on your own - in which case, quit asking for help - OR decide to rely on the advice of others - in which case, quit protesting and just go out and do what you’re told and execute on the solutions you’re given.
If the behavior CONTINUES, that member will have his account suspended until such time as he’s prepared to be a healthy member of the boards instead of one bumming everyone out with his annoying and pointless asking and rejecting, asking and rejecting.
To clarify, here’s the passive aggressive behavior we’re talking about that it NOT allowed:
- Ask for help
- Write off / dismiss solutions as things that “don’t work” or “won’t work”
- Attack advice givers as not “getting” the problem or how bad you have it
- Lament that no one cares if you don’t keep getting attention / more solutions to reject
Personally, whenever I’ve asked for help, I’ve only ever had THREE (3) reactions to the suggested solutions:
- Not what I’m looking for? “Okay, thanks!” —> privately decide to figure something else out
- Tried it but didn’t work? “Hey, I tried that on X number of girls and Y happened. What do I need to tweak to get it to work properly?”
- Never tried it, or HARDLY tried it? “Thank you - I’ll go out and test it out tonight on at least 6 girls.”
Any of these responses are fine, because they’re either neutral (but gracious) or they’re constructive.
If you ASK, you are GRATEFUL. End of story. Even if you don’t use the solution, still be grateful, because people are going out of their ways to help you.
If you can’t be grateful, DON’T ASK. Figure it out on your own.
If you’re going to use the boards as some kind of pinball game back and forth between “What should I do?” and “Nah, I already tried it and that doesn’t work. Next person with a suggestion for me - what’ve you got? Nah, tried that too… Next?” you’ll get the boot until you can convince Franco or I that you’ve straightened out your act.
Recap:
You may ask for advice. If you do though, you should probably go out and immediately test that advice. If you’ve already tested it EXTENSIVELY and it doesn’t work, report what you’re doing and ask for suggestions on how to MAKE it work. If it’s so far out of the ballpark that it isn’t something you want to use, just say, “Thanks,” maybe ask if there’s any other alternatives people have tried that they’ve found effective, and then leave off after that if not. Don’t bring people down by fighting with them over help they’ve offered you after you’ve ASKED them for it… that’s just really poor, crappy behavior and none of us here will tolerate it.
Chase
