LR-- As I Was Kissing Her on the Second Date...

[Frost]

Hello guys,

Last night I went on a second date with a girl I really like, the first date being like a month ago because we've both been extremely busy, and I know that she likes me as well. So I go pick her up at her place, when she gets out of the building I hug her and we go to grab a bite to eat first.

Part 1

I should mention that I didn't tell her much about what were going to do that night (more like teasing her about it) but in the morning she was like come on tell me I need to tell my parents etc... So after teasing her a bit I tell her we'll go eat somewhere and eventually we're gonna stay in the area near her place.

And I was quite nervous that night, which I found weird since I've never been nervous around her, always relaxed and enjoying myself.

We get to the place, and I sit next to her instead of facing her, and we eat some sort of dessert. During this time I get her to talk to me about her passions, how she likes to travel the world and see exotic places etc... with light touching of course. Her mom was calling her a lot but she was just hanging up and not answering. I was also teasing her during the conversation, for example when we were leaving I teased her about having chocolate all over her face (she barely had a bit on her lip but you get the point) and then we left.

I was planning to take her to a place I know nearby with a great view, but as we got there, there seemed to be a party in a house nearby (we could hear the loud music) and all the cars were parked in the spot I had in mind. So I was like change of plans, I kept driving to a side road (more like deserted road) near my university where there is a wide space to the side where we can hang out (it didn't have a view but it was pretty much private and isolated). I parked the car and we went and stood leaning on a huge rock there.


Part 2

So we go there, leaning on this rock next to each other, I put my arm around her. As we were talking I was caressing her body with that hand, her arm, her sides through her shirt (a really thin shirt), the side of her thigh and ass and she was really comfortable with it as we were talking. Then her mom starts calling again. I tell her why don't you answer, tell her you're okay or something, then she opens whatsapp and finds like a million messages from her mom. With barely reading them she starts to answer (I caught a glimpse that she was telling her I'll talk to you later I can't talk right now with a lot of energy and exclamation marks, like leave me alone). I was teasing her quite a bit and she was getting this frustrated smile and trying to justify and qualify herself to me, I also did a cold reading on her, I told her 4 things about her that I nailed 100%. During the conversation I reach for her necklace (the classic I-like-your-necklace move) and again she's really okay and doesn't move away or anything. Then I reach for her face to move a lock of hair behind her ear, same reaction, but then a speeding car passes and we get distracted by it and it breaks the moment.


Part 3

We continue to talk, and after a while I go for the hair move again, we hold eye contact, I put my fingers under her chin and pull her in for a kiss. She doesn't resist, but as I'm kissing her I notice that her mouth is closed tight, and in addition to that my lips were really dry, I don't know if it's from the food or something else, but it was annoying me. I keep kissing her until she starts to open up a little more, but still no noticeable excitement on her part. Then I move a bit to her neck and come back to kissing her. I break off a little, our faces almost touching, then get back to kissing her. After a bit she puts her finger on my lips and gently tries to push away, so I back off a little, look at her and ask her "what was that?", she says "what?", I gaze into her eyes and kiss her again, this time she's a little more responsive. I break it off then, she looks at me and says "what was that?" (in a whisper), I tell her that I just felt like it. Then I hold her like before and try to ignore what happened by going back to our conversation, but she says "shhhh" and we fall silent for a while, with me holding her. I tell her let's get in the car, and she says ok. She was going for the front seat but then she saw me getting in the back so she gets in the back as well.

In the back of the car, I look her in the eyes and kiss her again. This time again with more engagement on her part, but still not enough. We didn't even kiss with tongue, and as I was kissing her neck I expected a better reaction, but nothing. It's as if she was like "go on do your thing". I kept kissing her and touching her body, she had her hand between her legs, and I moved it away as my hand was on her inner thigh, but I didn't directly touch her there, only incidentally with the side of my hand, while my other hand was caressing the sides of her body. I broke off the kiss a few times while keeping my lips just in front of hers, almost touching, waiting for her to kiss me, but she barely did once.

After a bit she puts her hand on my chest with enough pressure to give the message but not actually pushing me, so I get back but my face still close to hers, she whispers in my ear "can we go home now?" (It was getting late indeed), so I stayed close to her for a few seconds and then said "yes let's go".

On the way back she spoke only very little, all my attempts to start a conversation were not very fruitful. Anyway we get to her place, exit the car.

Her: Bye
Me: Bye
(We hug, and as I'm pulling away I put my hands on her waist)
Her: Thanks for tonight. Let me know when you get home.
Me: Okay bye

Then when I get home I text her:

Me: Hey, I just got home.
Her: Okay great
Me: I'll talk to you later I guess, night.
Her: Good nightt

And that was it.



Now this whole thing got me really confused. I know that she likes me, and she didn't resist me kissing her. Besides, the kiss was clumsy not what you would call a good kiss (I don't know if she's inexperienced or what) and she didn't seem to enjoy it (and I didn't either because of that). I can't think of why this happened. Could be that time of the month for her(I think it's likely since she wasn't sure if she can go on the date on that night a few days earlier when I asked her), or any other explanation that I can't think of. I should also mention that we spent a lot of time there before I made my move.

Right now I'm in a position of whether I should give her another chance or not: she's passing my screening very well so far and I'm liking her more, but she lost a lot of points from the kiss thing.

So what do you think?

 

[ray_zorse]

It sounds like she was a bit nervous to enjoy herself properly, also moved a bit slow so time wasn't on your side, would have been good to build more comfort and keep going, also you got into logical discussion (what was that, etc) which tends to cement her resistance. She could well be/have been very into you, but some girls don't express that well so you just have to address objections and power forwards. You caved much too easily to her wanting to go home, I suggest perhaps adding another location "hey lets just go for a drive" and holding hands a bit and trying to rebuild that connection. Her refusal to engage on way home sounds like disappointment on her part, missed window on your part? Some final thoughts (1) the mum certainly didn't help and sounds like a real mood killer, BUT she handled that objection which shows she is into you, (2) maybe given this was 2nd date there was an element of standard bf-zoning / making you invest?
Ray
PS FR++ is a date w kissing, LR- is a date w oral sex I think.

 

[Frost]

Isn't FR only for new women met?

About caving too easily, I know how it seems but it was really late, and her parents were waiting for her.

By missed window you mean window to escalate even further? I don't think there was any.

I think I was wearing down her resistance since every time she was opening up a bit more.

I'm thinking of waiting like a week and try to set another date. What do you think? Although since the only place I can pull is my car it would be obvious if we go to a simar place next time, wouldn't it?

Edit: not sure if it's relevant or not, but on the way back she was holding her phone. It was blinking from notifications but she didn't even check what it was all the way to her place. She she did speak many times, mostly giving a comment about something happening on the road, or a stupid driver.

 

[ray_zorse]

Yeah, I dunno, I suppose a second date is technically an OR but that's just silly, I think it's an FR if you met her recently (otherwise it goes in r/ships board), so, whatever. Anyway, I guess it wasn't missed window (since I misunderstood what you wrote about the conversation on the way home) but failed escalation, well this might have been due to factors you could not control (her parents, next day commitments etc) but might have been due to her interest level being only so-so. If the former then I guess she might still be keen in which case, you're probably still in the running, but firmly in boyfriend territory now. 3 dates (assuming there's a third date) is quite a big investment even if she made out on the second date. So she may figure you're hooked and there's no need to provide the honey just yet. If the latter (she didn't kiss well and soon shut things down b/c not that interested), then I think you are really in quite a chasing position now and it will only get worse. A thing that concerns me is still the conversation in the car after the makeout, I tend to find that if she's not actively investing in the conversation I nearly always want to work harder to engage her, and if I don't nip this in the bud by withdrawing and forcing her to invest, it soon gets very chasey and her interest drops even further (a massive sticking point), does this kind of strike any chord or am I rambling here?
Ray

 

[Frost]

I know for a fact that she likes me a lot, and the fact that she was very comfortable with my touch from the beginning, and didn't resist my kiss speaks a lot as well. So we can rule out that her attraction was only so-so (I guess).

The thing is that girls are conservative where I live. I mean a very good percentage of attractive women don't have sex before they get married.

So when I went for the kiss, and even during the whole thing there was practically no resistance but she was very comfortable with it, and like you said she had her parents thing and work the next day as well. So the question is why was she not very engaged in the making out. Maybe not very experienced, or nervous like you said.

I will ask her out again, later this week, and it's the fact that she's a very interesting person that makes me want to give her another shot.

 

[ray_zorse]

I see, and where do u live btw? There could well be a seducer on these boards who can give a perspective on what it's like to be in lover territory with these girls who don't (tell anyone that they) put out outside of marriage.
Ray

 

[Frost]

Yeah I know what you're talking about, there are a lot of them as well. What I meant was that there is a greater proportion of conservative girls where I live (Lebanon) compared to the more liberal countries of "the west". But you can usually tell which from which (stereotypes basically).

This girl seems conservative to me, and the impression I got from our mutual friend (he's quite a natural but didn't "do" anything with her, he became her friend, by his choice XD) was the same as well.

But I still can't puzzle out the reason for her not being engaged in the kiss, even though she clearly likes me, and wasn't resisting the touching. Nervousness seems like a possibility, and maybe she's not very experienced.