FR Auto Rejection?

[Bboy100]

Sorry about how messy this FR is. Still haven't figured out a writing style which summarizes general ideas, but also outlines specific conversations of importance.

Anyways... yesterday, I went out with this girl I met off Tinder. She's 18, I'm 21. Going over the whole date would be a bit too long, so here are the highlights:

1. She chose the location, she wanted to be closer to her baby because it was her first time leaving him, and also, the babysitter was out of breast milk so she needed to be close in case the baby got hungry (I had a feeling this would be troublesome...and boy was I right. lol)
2. I went to the wrong location because the only thing we specified was "Starbucks in Juanita (a town). There are quite a few Starbucks in that area though. She ended up driving to me.
3. We sat down, I started deep diving her (and making the occasional playful comment about how she's making a really bad first impression):
-I found out she's a really sweet and caring girl, but also a little bit crazy.
-Also, she has a past of using drugs, shrooms, anything and everything you can think of. She also did other generally stupid shit. She quit as soon as she had her baby.
- She's REALLY superstitious and into astrology, natural healing, etc. - She wants to become a massage therapist.
- She's taking online high school
- She's a nanny
Overall, she was a pretty interesting person. Definitely not the kind of girl I'm used to talking to (I'm more used to talking to the college kid archetype).

4. I moved her to the outside of the cafe as soon as a seat freed up. This is when she mentioned becoming a massage therapist. So I had her give me a quick back rub (compliance). Then she mentioned she's really good at hand massages, so I had her give me one of those.
5. A little later in the conversation, I started giving her a neck message..forgot what excuse I had for doing that. At any rate, this built the sexual tension up very quickly. I was doing it while facing her as opposed to being behind her. As I stared into her eyes and massaged her neck, I could visibly see her feeling a little bit turned on. So I lightly kissed her. At first, she almost seemed like she was gonna pull away, but then she came back and reciprocated. After that she said:

Her: I think you like me

Me: Woah, I think you somehow tricked me (as I move my seat further away from her).

Her: Yeah, I'm a witch.

Me: I know, you've been talking about voodoo magic and healing and astrology this whole time...I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

Me: [Move onto a different topic]

For the next couple of minutes, she (and I for a matter of fact!) seemed visibly dazed. Like, we both had that elated feeling of "woah, that was amazing". We were also both a little distracted. ...Makes sense why it would happen to her. I was the first guy she kissed since the end of her very long-term relationship. Dunno why it happened to me. lol.

Anyways, after a little more chatting, she said she wanted to get her purse from her car. So we walked to her car. I noticed a beach nearby (I hadn't seen this area before). I said we're going over there. She complied. So we started walking in that direction. Once we got to the beach, we sat on a bench and I put my arm around her and snuggled up really close to her. At this point, there was less conversation. Every once in a while, we would talk about something, but there were some silences. I didn't feel that they were awkward. She once said something out of the blue which made no sense...don't remember what it was. But it didn't really make any sense. I asked her why she would ask that (in a warm way). She said she wanted to break the silence. I said "Why? Silence is golden". I only mention this because she may have been uncomfortable with the silence (although I hadn't realized that until AFTER I reflected on the date). Also, I made out with her a few more times while we were sitting there. This time, a little more intensely. But still not "full make out mode". After the first time I did this she again said:

Her: I think you like me (again! Is this a line she uses or some shit? LOL)

Me: ...I think you like me.

Her: [No response]

Anyways, we stayed there for a little while longer, then she said:

Her: It's really hot here.

Me: Yeah, I know. We should go chill at my place. It's a lot cooler over there"

Her: How far away is it?

Me: 15 mins or so.

Her: No, I want to stay here in case the baby needs breast milk

Me: Oh, the baby will be fine, your best friend is babysitting him right?

Her: Yeah, but they don't have any breast-milk. I need to be here in case he gets hungry

Me: Ok, fair enough [I was relatively sure I would get a hard no because she first asked me how far away I live. That means there was at least some legitimacy to her baby excuse, otherwise I would have persisted harder.]

Some other conversational pieces of note as we sat there:
1.
Her: So how many relationships have you been in?

Me: ..hmmm, I think you're asking a few too many personal questions [Sly smile]

Her: I dunno, I guess that's just how I judge people's character. I'm not really looking for a relationship anyways. I'm not really sure how I feel about them at the moment (as I mentioned, she recently broke up with her serious BF).

Me: Yeah, me neither. There's no point. I'm only here for the summer. I'd just start to like her and then we'd have to split up.

2.
Her: I've been staring at a lot of girls asses lately. I don't feel like I'm gay, but honestly, I'm kinda curious.

Me: Yeah, that's what I've noticed. Most girls don't have a clear sexuality. Like, even straight girls will sometimes get curious and will wanna be with other girls.

Her: I kinda wanna fuck a girl.

Me: You should. Go ahead.

Her: I just don't know where to find one. [I honestly would have suggested one of the girls I know. But I'm not sure who would go for it...plus, I don't wanna give her any value other than my company prior to sleeping with her]

Me: Well now you have Tinder so there you go.

Her: Yeah, I looked at that, but all the girls were short haired and ugly.

Me: Ohhh, I see ya. So they were like, actual lesbians.

Her: yeah.

3.

Her: Were you a bad boy in your past? [Honestly was not sure how to react nor what it meant.]

Me: Depends on how you define bad boy

Her: I dunno...a bad boy.

Me: Again...depends on how you define it.

Her: Have you ever been arrested?

Me: No...I've gotten close.

Her: [Asked me some other weird qualifications she had for a bad boy which I had never done. lol]

4. She said she "usually doesn't kiss guys on first dates" But later on she also mentioned that she had sex with her previous boyfriend on the first date...so kinda contradicted herself. lol. In her defense though, she also mentioned that she regrets sleeping with her boyfriend so fast. She thought it was the reason her relationship didn't workout. I asked her why that would be relevant. And she said something along the lines of "Wanting to have more of an emotional connection, and that if she had waited, the sex wouldn't have gotten boring and old so fast". I didn't really care to fight her on the topic because we had both agreed that we're not looking for relationships atm, so it didn't really apply to me anyways.

I'd like to point out that I'm not sure what the chronological order of all these conversations on the beach were. It might be of importance (i.e. which ones happened before and which ones happened after I tried to pull her...but I'm just not sure. Sorry!)

Anyways, at one point, it really did get too hot, so I said:

Me: Let's go find somewhere were there's more shade

After walking around for a while, we didn't find anything. So we naturally started walking back to her car. On the way, she mentioned to me that the first time she had sex, it was statutory rape by her dad's friend or something like that (she has a really fucked up family from what I understand.)

Other than that, there was no conversation of importance. When we got to the car, she goes in to hug me. Knowing that I wasn't going to pull her today, I started going into full makeout mode. We madeout for like, 10-15 seconds. I broke it off (as I have been every time so far this date). We said goodbye and I left.


The next day, I sent her a standard "I had a good time text". So far, she hasn't replied, and she also unmatched me on Tinder.

Final thoughts:
Throughout the date, she seemed kind of uncomfortable with kissing/making out with me, and with cuddling/me having my arm around her. But she never mentioned anything, never pulled away etc. I assumed she was just nervous because she hadn't done any of this stuff with someone new in a long time. Now I'm beginning to think that maybe she actually didn't want to kiss me. But she's just young and has a hard time saying no to my face?

On a similar note, maybe I came off as a little bit too horny...she never once tried to kiss me. She only did it when I initiated. And even though I was the one to break it off every time, she overall didn't seem as "into it" as I was.


At any rate, Any ideas as to what happened? I feel like I didn't move fast enough. And also, her stories got a little bit tiresome towards the end, so I stopped relating to them as well. Perhaps it was auto rejection?
Anything I could have done better to begin with? Should I NEXT her? Or is there something I can do to salvage this?

 

[Bboy100]

If you can get her to see you again, which u may be able to since she has a tough situation. Then move way faster and more dominantly to sex. She wants to get fucked.

Yeah, I kinda knew that all along. That's why I was surprised to run into resistance when I tried to pull. But yeah, we did move to the beach well over an hour into the date. So perhaps I did miss an escalation window. I just still have a bad sense of when is "soon enough" to pull. And also of exactly how hard/how many times I should persist in any given situation. Any ideas on what I can do to get her to see me again? So far, still no reply to that text. And I don't expect to get one.

 

[Bboy100]

Secondly you got nervous when she started questioning you. If you would have been firm she would have fucked you hands down.

I don't think I was really nervous. Frankly, I was bored cause she talked A LOT and it was a bit....annoying. lol. So I guess my point is, even though I wasn't sure how to answer, my fundamentals and body language remained in tact. I didn't panic or get nervous or anything like that. I just didn't have the words to back them up.

Honestly sounds like you lost this one.

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured too. lol. I'll try texting her one more time anyways. Cause my previous text didn't ask a question, and it didn't necessarily require a response. Asking her a direct question such as the one you suggested might add more social pressure for her to answer. ...but yeah, I still doubt she'll reply. So, probably gonna end up NEXTing her.

 

[ray_zorse]

Yeah, hey man, I'm 100% impressed at this, you did damn well, much better than I would have in the circumstances. It really seems like you're making incredibly fast progress. Missed windows really hurt haha, but don't worry, you'll never make the same mistake twice, just cos it hurts
Ray
Edit: Another suggestion, I know radeng suggested a super casual "hey" type text, but I find if things went south, then a voice call can help recover.

 

[Bboy100]

Another suggestion, I know radeng suggested a super casual "hey" type text, but I find if things went south, then a voice call can help recover.

Interesting. Tell me more. I've actually never done a voice call with a girl who's not a platonic friend. Especially when it comes to recovering, what do I say/talk about? Cause I feel like saying "Hey, I know I missed an EW, but lets try this again!" wouldn't work so well. LOL.

I think the biggest lesson here would be to realize the type of girl you're dealing with sounds like a teenage mom with more emotional baggage than you could shake a stick at. These types need you to move dominantly and very fast and kind of want to be treated like shit, for lack of a better way to put it. She reads potential crazy all over tho and honestly probably not worth your time anyway!
.

Oh absolutely. I knew that five mins into the date. And I kinda assumed it prior to meeting her (being that she's a teen mom. lol). The only reason I'm still talking about this is for the purpose of analysis and learning from it. Like, it kinda stings that I lost her cause I know it was an easy lay. But it's nothing compared to losing a girl I actually deemed valuable/potential GF material. So in the grand scheme of things, I"ll be over it pretty quickly.


Another thought also crossed my mind: In the future, perhaps setting a timer in my head for how long I have before I MUST pull might be a good idea? For example, on my next date, unless I've built no attraction nor connection whatsoever, I MUST attempt to pull her within an hour of meeting her. Or something like that. Thoughts?

 

[ray_zorse]

With the recovery voice call, as Chase put it to me early in my journey, you basically try to rediscover some of the good feelings from on the date, and then when you reach a high point, ask her out or say whatever you were planning to say. Be sure to get some laughs in -- I quite often do this around 10am in the morning (with intention of getting her out for market shopping or tourism) and they sleepily answer and I tease them a little for being a sleepyhead, just keep it light hearted and let her hear you chuckling a bit over the phone so she knows you're not taking yourself too seriously.

Me: hey [her name], you missed out on a great fried rice! (I chuckle a bit here, cos I'd tried to pull w food excuse)
Her: oh, you made the fried rice? what did you put, chicken?
Me: only vegetable, I want to eat healthy cos I'm going out
Her: ohh that sounds yum
Me: so remember that beer cafe, that you googled when you were looking for the coffeeshop?
Her: yeah?
Me: well I'm gonna hit that place up later, maybe with a colleague from the office, you still in the city now?
Her: noo I'm at home have just got back
Me: ohh, I was hoping you'd still be with your friend and we could all go out
Her: yeah that would've been awesome
Me: anyway we'll stay in touch and work something out for later, okay? (I'm using a sexy voice here)
Her: okay that's good
Me: bye [her name], good to hear your voice

Above call actually happened yesterday, she knew I was a player cos she was fuckin nosy and made the date more about me than her, also rejected my escalation about 4 times -- so I wanted to reassure her that I didn't take the wrong message away and I'm still interested (as Chase said -- boyfriend territory won't kill you -- date compression). I will leave it a week or so, but I wanted to get things in a better place than having her last memory of me a failed escalation.

Ray

 

[ray_zorse]

I just want to add something to what I said about voice calls, which is that we all associate them with nervousness (I remember I grabbed a number from a social circle chick at a wedding 8~10yrs back, wrote it on the whiteboard in my office and looked at it every day for 3mths and was too nervous to call her, she's now married to my younger brother with 2 small children, great girl in a lot of ways)... Chase suggests walking while talking and that can be beneficial, but my own killer mindset here is a phone call is just a mini date, if you can date her without getting your knickers in a knot there's no reason why you can't do exactly what you would do on the date, on the phone. Also, experience helps a lot, I'm blase about dates now, also calls.
Ray

 

[Bboy100]

I just want to add something to what I said about voice calls, which is that we all associate them with nervousness

Yeah, I'm a little bit nervous. Only because I've never done it before. I'll definitely try pacing. See if it helps.


Also, if she doesn't pick up, would leaving a voicemail be helpful? If so, what would I say in it?

 

[ray_zorse]

If she doesn't pick up, and then it's 90% likely you've blown it and 10% likely she actually missed your call IMO (unless you called at a weird time). I've never had good results from leaving a voice message, but if I do, my process is to use a
very sexy voice tone, speak slowly, and to make it clear the ball is in her court. Also to plan out any potential message before making the call. "Helloo [her name], this is Bboy100. I wondered what you're up to -- went out last night as planned? (pause) Soo, (more sexy voice) give me a call. We'll catch up. (even sexier -- hoarser) Ookay. Bye"

For practicing your sexy voice I recommend to use a voice recorder app on your phone or PC. Imagine you're a voiceover artist and practice saying stuff like "I am going to violate every part of your body" until it comes off congruent. Deep, hoarse, slow... more powerful than a whisper but somewhat like that. I haven't done this in a while, planning to restart my voice work when I get time.

Anyway, if not confident don't leave a message. It's more mysterious for her to just get a missed call with no explanation, though I must admit I haven't had good results with that either. I recently tried no message but immediately putting my message in a text, also no results of any note.

Ray

 

[Bboy100]

Ok, well thanks for the help guys. I'll try calling her on Monday, see how it goes. I'll report it back here if anything unexpected or interesting happens.

 

[Bboy100]

Ok. So I called her at lunch, she didn't pickup. That was going to be the end of it. But an hour ago (10:30PM) , I decided to send her another text just for the sake of experimentation. I figured missed EW's are a form of auto-rejection (hence the name of the post). So I wanted to formulate a text which was a good balance of "nice" but not supplicating. Not sure if I accomplished that. At any rate, here's my text and her reply:

Me: Ok well here's what I wanted to say: I appreciate you and the time we spent last Wednesday. And I know you did too. But obviously, something's bugging you. I'd love to talk about it. Even if it's dumb/rude/immature/whatever. I guarantee you I'm not judgmental nor will I get upset. Even if I disagree with it.

If you choose not to reply, that would be unfortunate. But I still wish you and [Name of her baby] the best.

[1 hour later]

Her: I like the fact that we're really different but still get along well. And that we're both looking for friends with benefits kind of thing, not a relationship. but since you're in college and party, I kinda figured that there's other girls you sleep with and I'm not really comfortable with risking diseases and what not. That could be me just assuming. I tend to do that sometimes.

I've never received a text like this. lol. Any ideas on how to respond?

 

[ray_zorse]

Yes, you are dealing with an attainability issue here. Maybe you could reply with something like, happy to talk through your concerns, then try to set sth up? maybe not in the same text tho. i think the mantra for attainability is:
1. go slow
2. don't use sexual or chase frames
3. don't use any game
4. build comfort
5. show you care about her
6. be honest with her and be yourself, warts and all -- this is usually a -value, +attainability move
7. be warm, this means more phone calls = good
8. persist gently / chase a little, it shows you care
9. don't be a dick
im in the gym so ill leave it there, but go read stuff on attainability and ask if u need further advice, attainability is my hobby haha. a good understanding will supercharge your game. good luck.
Ray

 

[Bboy100]

Ok, well a few days ago (the day after I wrote my last post), I texted her back saying that I can understand her concerns, that I feel like she has a misconception about what college parties are like and of what I'm like (in a warm way) and that I'm guessing diseases aren't the only thing she's concerned about. And that its too long a conversation to have over text. So it would be best to talk about it over the phone.

She texted me back saying ok, I can call her, but she's traveling to [name of city] where there's no reception. SO she'll only be talk for as long as she has service. Five minutes later, I called her. She didn't pickup. I sent her a text saying it looks like she already doesn't have service so she should call me back when she gets home. She replied saying that she was actually at an appointment and that she still has to pack. And that she'll call me once she's on the road. I never received said call. Normally, I feel like doing anything else from here on out would be chasing. But since it's an attainability problem, perhaps I have a little more leeway?

If I do manage to get in contact with her via voice call, should I actually address her concerns? If so, how should I go about it exactly? Because clearly, the whole "diseases" thing is an excuse for the real issue: She doesn't understand why I like her so she thinks I would hurt her or that she's just another "conquest" or something along those lines. Should I bring that up myself or try to get her to say it?

Additionally, how much should I reveal/how vulnerable should I be? For example, would it be safe to tell her I'm not having sex with any girls at all atm and that I haven't had sex with anyone for a while? Or would that kill too much attraction?