FR BeOfGoodCheer

[Marty]

Not sure if I fucked this one up. Time will tell. Actually, the GC community will likely tell, before time gets there

So, I told myself: Never again will I allow limiting beliefs to constrain me. I told myself that after today... you'll see why.

Determined to burst this undergrad bubble, I took the subway downtown and did a university-only lunch break. The first girl I opened, sitting at a café table, aged 19, received me very warmly, but told me she wasn't "doing this at the moment" (dating) due to "stuff going on" in her life. I got a hint of what that was; she left me her number anyway.

The second girl, a redhead freckled number, aged 21-22, had a boyfriend. The third girl, aged 18, had a stupendous face and a stupendous body, clothed in a tight-fitting springtime dress—a milk-and-honey complexion with long, straight dark-brown hair: my very favorite—and was quite chatty at first, but very nervous. She backed away and wished me a good day before I could even get to a date proposal.

At this point, after 3 blowoffs, I thought I'd call it a day. I normally only do 1-2 girls in an outing on a weekday; I have a day job after all

Heading back toward the subway I passed by a little park frequented by students. Sitting cross-legged on the grass was a bleached blond of 20 in short shorts and a sleeveless top (it was 80 degrees here today). Her body looked like that of a gymnast and she had just the right amount of tan.

It's a measure of how I've changed that I found my feet carrying me down the stone stairway in her direction, almost involuntarily I passed her to see if I'd get an approach invitation. No dice. I took a seat 20 feet away on a little stone wall and watched. I thought I might wave if she looked up in my direction. But she was absorbed with her MacBook and iPhone.

After a few minutes, I walked over and said hello. She reciprocated my greeting very enthusiastically. I told her she looked like a living advertisement for Apple. She laughed and I asked her name. She asked mine, I took her hand, and asked if I might sit down beside her on the grass. She assented.

To go direct, I told her I'd seen her sitting here and hadn't been able to resist coming over and introducing myself. Then I asked her what she was studying, and she told me "Health and Human Performance". I'd never heard of such a degree, but speculated that it involved strenuous physical activity.

She said yes, and told me she was captain of the university all-girl cheerleading team.

No, this is not an April Fool's joke

To consolidate the direct approach I also mentioned that it was beautiful weather to sit in the park, and I should probably be in shorts too, but my legs didn't look quite as amazing as hers.

The following vignette was quite a classic:

• BeOfGoodCheer: And are you studying here too?
  
  Marty: Me?! Hahaha, no! It's a while since I studied anything... I'm about fifteen years into my career. Very flattering though... no one has asked me that for very many years.

I asked her at what age she'd gotten into cheerleading, and what had prompted her interest. I speculated that the all-female environment must be very competitive, snide, and bitchy, and was told I'd gotten it exactly right. We conversed for perhaps 20 minutes on a wide array of subjects. She asked about my background and I briefly told her where I was from and where I'd lived.

Now here's where I'm not sure whether I played things right: the date close.

I asked what she had lined up for the afternoon, and she told me that she was going to get some sun for another hour or so and then had a class and had to meet up with a friend later. So I asked:

• Marty: Okay... well I have to get to a meeting soon. Why don't we grab a coffee or bite some other time.
  
  BeOfGoodCheer: Sure, that would be great.
  
  Marty: Good deal. Let me get your cell number.

She input it into my phone, saving it for me with her first and last names—a nice touch. I kissed her on the cheek, got up from the ground and wished her an enjoyable remainder of the afternoon.

In reality, I could have just texted my boss that something had come up, missed the meeting, and asked her to accompany me to do something exciting right now. I realized afterward there's a Ferris wheel ride downtown that has recently been set up and gives a 15-minute panoramic view of the city. I didn't think of it in time.

Do you think this failure to go for the instant date has cost me the interaction? She was very warm and receptive and I wonder whether I may have failed to reward that properly.

-Marty

 

[Franco]

Do you think this failure to go for the instant date has cost me the interaction? She was very warm and receptive and I wonder whether I may have failed to reward that properly.

It definitely has not, although I get the feeling that instant dates that lead straight to the bedroom on the same day will ultimately be the best play for you in university game given your age -- girls won't realistically see you as something long term, so when you start proposing dates, they might assume you're going that direction.

But I don't see any indicator here that you shouldn't invite her out for that coffee and attempt to quickly move things forward from there.

- Franco

 

[Murphy]

I so wish this was posted a few days ago! I got invited to some frat parties with lots of girls but given the age differences between the 18 year old girls and me (35), I felt really funny giving anything but but friendly vibe...and instead held back. :-( This would have given me the "ok" to go get some!

 

[Nova]

Marty this was very good! Smooth and well balanced. (from what I can gather from a field report anyway)

After a few minutes, I walked over and said hello. She reciprocated my greeting very enthusiastically. I told her she looked like a living advertisement for Apple

That made me laugh, I can just picture her with all the gear. Nice witty way of opening, and then you go more direct after, well done.

I also mentioned that it was beautiful weather to sit in the park, and I should probably be in shorts too, but my legs didn't look quite as amazing as hers.

Smooth, and to the point, not over the top.

Then you conversed for 20 minutes, cool.

That interaction was solid. Obviously I can't tell exactly what happened during those 20 minutes, what your body language was like, what your fundamentals were like, what your frames were like - but from what I see, you did a very good job.

----

Regarding going for instant dates/same day lay during the day, here is how I play this. If I've got enough time on my hand, she seems receptive and has no immediate plans and we have been conversing for 15+ minutes then I would move her someplace else and continue the process and eventually move her back to mine. Essentially when I have been talking to a girl for a bit during the day I view that as a 1st date and therefore my mentality is always to close correctly ie with her in my bed.

But, of course there are times when things are going great and your really enjoying the conversation and before you know it you have that decision to make but you realize you have other things to do, then fine just set up another meet. Depending on the girl and the impression you gave her it may or may not harm your chances at all. Its always more efficient in my opinion to go for the close and if you can give it a try sometime you might surprise yourself, but definitely not 100% necessary so don't sweat it.

Of course the other way you can work things is to have lots of quick short interactions with girls during the day, open direct, bit of light chat/humor, rely mostly on your vibe and fundamentals, arrange a date at a later date and grab her number, essentially playing things as a pure numbers game, this happens really quickly then you just text some of those numbers the next day and see who bites. So it all depends on what you are trying to achieve.

But well done man, this sounded good.

 

[Grand Pooba]

I get the feeling that instant dates that lead straight to the bedroom on the same day will ultimately be the best play for you in university game given your age

Marty, I think that with the undergrads this is definitely something you can start pushing for, even if its just temporary/as a trial - see how fast you can move with these women. They're in school, so they usually have plenty of time (even when they say they don't) and with your smoothness and sexy vibe (showcased all over your FR) I think you can practice how to turn them on on the spot and move fast, including instant dates, setting up and meeting escalation windows, and try bringing them back to your house. I would imagine that an undergrad girl would be hesitant to bring you to her dorm because of potential social repercussions, but maybe you can try.

Other than that I didn't see any mistakes or anything in your FR, it looks solid. Hope you get to grab coffee with her.

 

[Gentle_Phrases]

It's a measure of how I've changed that I found my feet carrying me down the stone stairway in her direction, almost involuntarily

Hahaha "game reflex"

although I get the feeling that instant dates that lead straight to the bedroom on the same day will ultimately be the best play for you in university game given your age -- girls won't realistically see you as something long term

So Marty, do you work until late, late at night? Maybe, when you don't have time for the mid-day instant dates that Franco suggests, you could also go for same day dates more with undergrads since you meet them so early in the day. So, for example, you could have suggested that she meet you around 8 or 9pm that night. Most kids are staying up until 2 a.m. anyway. Plus they might see that as less of a push for some sort of relationship and more of a bad boy's urgency. Just a thought

Congrats man - I hope these posts keep coming!

 

[Marty]

I think this one's probably lost from the radar screen, but I'm appreciative of all the input.

get the feeling that instant dates that lead straight to the bedroom on the same day will ultimately be the best play for you in university game

Thanks for confirming that suspicion, Franco, that will give me more confidence to press for the same-day continuation as I dial up the number of interactions. Oh... and if they "don't realistically see me as something long-term", that's their loss, I don't realistically see any women 32+ as long-term either, for biologically obvious reasons.

So I'll just keep everything short-term until a young girl who is prepared to spin things out comes along ...and I'm no hurry to do that, although I'd imagine a girl of around 25-26 would be ideal (funny how the long-discredited rule-of-thumb of "half your age plus seven" from days gone by really does seem to match up to the perfect age difference: those ancients maybe knew what they were talking about after all...)

I so wish this was posted a few days ago!

Murphy, you have no excuse, you could have read this (LOL)

That made me laugh, I can just picture her with all the gear. Nice witty way of opening, and then you go more direct after, well done.

Nova, thank you. Your praise is highly valued.

Obviously I can't tell exactly what happened during those 20 minutes, what your body language was like, what your fundamentals were like, what your frames were like - but from what I see, you did a very good job.

Yeah, that's a good question actually. So I realized from the start that I needed to avert the body language a bit to avoid coming on too strong. She was sitting cross-legged on the grass (oh boy, those legs!) so when I sat down opposite her, I tucked my own legs under me to the right side, so that the outside of my left thigh was in contact with the ground and I propped myself on my left hand. Thus my knees were pointing toward her, but my torso was averted and I peeked at her from the left side of my face.

This seemed very comfortable (socially speaking) and in line with Chase's advice on "playful" behavior (drumming fingers etc.), I plucked a stem of grass and was idly drawing with it in the soil as we held a very relaxed conversation. This seemed to set the right tone. Too bad I didn't press through with that Ferris wheel idea as I think that could have worked, upon reflection.

If I've got enough time on my hand, she seems receptive and has no immediate plans and we have been conversing for 15+ minutes then I would move her someplace else and continue the process and eventually move her back to mine.

Actually, this seems solid, Nova. I like this and it's easy to remember.

They're in school, so they usually have plenty of time (even when they say they don't)

Very good point. You see, it's easy to miss things that others pick up. Thanks, Ozzo.

with your smoothness and sexy vibe (showcased all over your FR) I think you can practice how to turn them on on the spot and move fast, including instant dates, setting up and meeting escalation windows, and try bringing them back to your house.

Thanks for that compliment and yes, I have to use it, it's doing no good sitting there on the shelf. Great reminder.

I would imagine that an undergrad girl would be hesitant to bring you to her dorm because of potential social repercussions

Yeah, agree, I expect it's a non-starter.

So Marty, do you work until late, late at night?

No, why would I do that?

So, for example, you could have suggested that she meet you around 8 or 9pm that night.

That is actually an extremely good point, GentlePhrases! Why didn't I think of that?

Plus they might see that as less of a push for some sort of relationship and more of a bad boy's urgency.

Yes exactly. Boy, that is real smart. Definitely one to try very soon. The 22-year-old finalist girl I opened today declined on account of a boyfriend (was lapping it up though, all beaming smiles and sparkling eyes) so it's on the books for the following time. Instadate—no? Date tonight—no? Date later on—no? Fuck off, LOL

Most kids are staying up until 2 a.m. anyway.

Well, I never stay up until 2 AM unless I can't sleep, but if that's what it takes to get a 19-year-old's panties off, I'm prepared to make an exception

-Marty

 

[Franco]

although I'd imagine a girl of around 25-26 would be ideal (funny how the long-discredited rule-of-thumb of "half your age plus seven" from days gone by really does seem to match up to the perfect age difference: those ancients maybe knew what they were talking about after all...)

Haha, well I'm not so sure about that "half your age, plus seven" thing... but it's funny to think about nonetheless! It has more to do with the girl's phases she goes through in her 20s and what periods are usually the most transitional for her. In general, I've noticed that the girls who are usually ripe for an extended courting and are still young enough to be at the prime of their attractiveness are of age 25-29. I usually avoid girls in the ages of 21-24 for scheduling dates (if possible) as they are in the more "experimental" phase of getting lots of attention from guys (which is new to them), so they tend to get into lots of one-night stands and hookups until they realize it's difficult to keep a guy around when doing this. Enough heartbreaks and they start taking dating more seriously!

If you go below 21, you can have a lot of fun with girls who are very inexperienced, but you need to move things along very smoothly and usually with a big smile on your face. These girls tend to get pretty attached though if you make it to the bedroom.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here... I guess my point of the above statements is to let you know that you'll have much more success scheduling dates with girls 25+ than you will with girls who are younger than that, and this applies to younger guys as well. However, I think it's especially important to make things happen quickly if you're in your mid-to-late 30s or higher. Dates start setting unrealistic expectations for younger girls at that point. =)

- Franco

 

[Marty]

I might "soft next" this one for a few weeks and see if I can reengage... I think I'm done for though.

I've noticed that the girls who are usually ripe for an extended courting and are still young enough to be at the prime of their attractiveness are of age 25-29. I usually avoid girls in the ages of 21-24 for scheduling dates

I think I can live with that, LOL Actually, yeah, I've noticed with the approaches I've done in the past year, and the dozen or so dates I've gotten, that the girls in the 25-29 age group are on the whole a lot more fun to be with and warmer about keeping in touch. With the 21-24 group, one strike and I'm out—it's a jungle.

If you go below 21, you can have a lot of fun with girls who are very inexperienced, but you need to move things along very smoothly and usually with a big smile on your face. These girls tend to get pretty attached though if you make it to the bedroom.

That sounds like a cool long-term strategy for getting my next serious girlfriend, without having to worry so much about her clock ticking, as she'd have those few extra years to spare. I'm nowhere near at the skill level for that yet, though. I anticipate a good 2-3 years of multiple-dating and accumulating reference points with casual lovers before I'm in a position to consider another relationship. Good to know that getting a younger lover strongly attached is a possibility though.

-Marty

 

[Marty]

Okay fellas I kinda need your help.

First of all, here's a quote from a completely different FR...

So this morning I was browsing through my recent female contacts on my phone, picked the three prettiest and sent them all a more-or-less identical text to see whether anything would stick.

This one texted me back in under 15 minutes proposing an alternative time. We now have a date scheduled for next week.

Correction:

Two of the three texted me back. WTF?? I now have a date lined up for Saturday lunchtime with this cheerleader girl too.

I was not expecting that at all. As you can see, I met this young girl 6 weeks ago. She utterly ignored my first phone call and a follow-up text to ask about a better time to chat. Then, three weeks later, I texted her three alternative proposals and to my surprise, she did reply to me, but said she had exams and couldn't come. I wished her luck and then got out of her way.

Then yesterday, as quoted above, I did a bit of cleanup work with recent (but not too recent) chicks. Five minutes before I'm planning to leave for my date with LittleSweetheart, I get a reply from this cheerleader captain. Yes, anytime except two nights when she has cheerleading commitments.

So around 10:30 PM after I get home from my date, I text her and go to sleep. I wake up at night (now—I guess I'm a bit hyperactive with all these babes appearing out of nowhere!) and turns out she replied around midnight confirming for Saturday.

Then another message immediately after:

• you have snap chat?
  

Not only do I not have Snap Chat, I'm of the generation that I had to actually look up in Wikipedia to find out what Snap Chat was. (Don't laugh.) So now I figure out it's a photo messaging app with some kind of privacy control where the photos automatically self-destruct on a specified future date if you want them to. (Sounds like something from Q-Branch, LOL)

Okay guys, I am assuming this is some place where she keeps her cheerleading photos and can share with her friends (and a healthy chunk of male orbiters presumably... complete with self-destruct capability as insurance against prospective female haters!), so my default response would be something like:

• no but I can install it I guess
  

However please warn me if I'd be walking into a trap here... is this some sort of a test? Like to check whether I can't be friendzoned, or something? If she just wants to show me some cute pictures of herself with her leg in the air, that's fine by me, although I'll take the real thing over that any day

Any bright ideas? Perhaps someone's on a different timezone, or insomniac, or will take a look at this next morning... in any case, all smart interventions welcome. I shan't reply until a more civilized hour in any case, needless to say.

I'm a bit out of my depth here, folks... this is a girl with presumably an insane number of orbiters, who comes into close contact on a regular basis with jocks half my age with boatloads of muscle-mass playing college sports at the highest level, and she's suddenly decided she's going on a date with me Saturday. I know not to be overly cautious, but I don't want to slip up unnecessarily.

Thanks, friends!

-Marty

 

[Mr.Rob]

that's really baller that those girls you thought were done for returned your texts. Good on ya!

Whats funny is that I don't know what snapchat is either but whatever.

Just tell her you don't have it and set a witty chase frame making it seem like she can't wait to see you. Be bold! You thought you wouldn't have had her anyway!

 

[Teparus]

Snapchat is for sexting. Pretty much 100%. I personally skip it, I prefer in person interaction and photos can look weird. I've thrown out "nah" every time I've been asked whether I have it, and it hasn't hurt me a bit.

 

[Marty]

Oh boy, I really am out of my depth.

First I assumed she wanted to share her cheerleading photos and regarded it as a trap, she'll be expecting a response and if I start swooning over them I'm toast.

But sexting?? I have no clue how to do that and I am not proposing to start learning with a 20-year-old cheerleader. What is it, anyway? I mean is this just words, or explicit images?

Right now, I can think of two possible routes:

• 1) Ignore the message. "Let's shoot for noon Saturday, we'll figure out the location nearer the time. Do you live downtown?"
  
  2) Acknowledge it like Rob was suggesting, but don't bite. "Had to look that up lol. Guess who can't wait to see me? Let's shoot for noon Saturday, we'll figure out the location nearer the time. Do you live downtown?"

I will be massively appreciative of any critique or commentary.

-Marty

 

[Teparus]

The chase frame opportunity is an interesting one, but I'm always mindful of sending short texts. I'd condense it down to something like,
"Can't wait to see me? I don't snapchat, though."
and then move on to logistics, if I were going to throw in the chase frame.

 

[Drck]

Hey Marty,
I would avoid any extensive texting or calling. You don't want to entertain her over the phone, you want to see her face to face. ACTIONS speak - make her come to the date, this way she has to invest her time and effort to see you. With the phone, she'll spend 2 minutes with you and she'll forget you... Hope it helps.

There is a great info about dating from Dr. Love. He has a book called something like "dating dictionary" and also some audio, you might be able to get it from torrent. It is little bit outdated, some things like waiting till you call her and ask her for home number should be changed, but overall really great source, lots of explanation including red flags...

 

[Marty]

ACTIONS speak - make her come to the date, this way she has to invest her time and effort to see you.

Drck, you are absolutely right, as always. You have a different tone from a lot of writers here, but your perspective is always refreshing and instructive.

"Can't wait to see me? "
and then move on to logistics

Okay Haraklus, I went with this. It's pretty obvious, but if your interpretation is correct, she was being obvious too (or testing me). Fingers crossed.

 

[Franco]

Marty,

Your initial instinct on suggesting to install Snapchat was WAY off, so thankfully, Haraklus gave you a great response with:

Can't wait to see me, huh?

Great, fun chase frame established in one text. If you're lucky, she'll just forget that she brought up the topic. However, she might still question you as to whether or not you have it. You need to be careful how you respond to this as to not offend her (by putting down Snapchat -- which essentially puts her down for using it) nor give into her requests. So if she persists about Snapchat, I would say something like the following:

Snapchat isn't really my cup of tea, but here's a sexy photo of myself since you seem so eager to have one!

Then send her one of your best-looking photos. If you don't have one, then this isn't an option, but I recommend every guy have one really sexy, well-dressed photo of themselves on their phone! I've had girls ask me for a photo before a date before because they can't remember exactly what I looked like (or they just want to confirm I am who I say I am), so sending one really good photo of yourself can help.

Good luck, Marty!

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Franco:

Yes, Haraklus saved my skin there. She replied an hour later:

Haha I guess not! But yeah I live right next to —

and proceeded to tell me what neighborhood she lives in.

She hasn't asked for a photo or gotten offended, and I don't propose to go down that path if I don't have to. But Franco, I know you're great at innuendo. I could really use your help with the date-finalization text. We've agreed on Sat noon; now I want to text something like—

Let's meet at XYZ café, then you won't have so far to come

...which I don't like as it isn't quite obvious enough, or—

Let's meet at XYZ café, then it won't take you so long to come

...which is TOO obvious.

I'm thinking play on the word "come" to put her in the right frame of mind Basically I want to set it up at a venue nearby, ask quite unsubtly about roommates, then take her back to where she lives (or where I live failing that) and bang her. What's your advice?

-Marty

 

[Franco]

Marty,

Let's meet at XYZ café, then it won't take you so long to come

Two issues I might have with this text:

• 1) I actually don't think it's all that obvious since it sounds so serious; if I were to send a text like that, it would look more like this:
  
  

  Let's meet at XYZ café, then it won't take you so long to come... if you catch my drift.

  
  2) This is actually a rather explicit, sexual text and may still be incongruent with how you've presented yourself in person. You might want to think about your interaction with her in person and see if this text actually reflects your previous presentation of yourself to her. If it doesn't, it might be best just to avoid the sexual frame and set up the location without any extra banter. (Of course, for the sake of trying to be more sexual -- which is an area you are really trying to improve -- you could just fire it off to see if it works; could be a good way of adding some confidence in your ability to be sexual)

Just some thoughts. =)

- Franco

 

[Marty]

I don't think she got the joke even with the "...if you catch my drift " language (she came back with "uhm no I don't get what you're saying lol") but theoretically we have a date set up for Sat lunchtime at a place she apparently likes.

You're probably right she just forgot what I look like, it is 6 weeks since we met—and she's had exams in the interim—but we chatted for a half-hour and she gave me her number, so who cares. She's probably just intrigued who she actually gave her number to... chick like that must get thousands of guys hitting on her, most of whom get blown off pronto. Unless she flakes I'll at least be able to say I had a date with a cheerleader, which is definitely a first-time experience for me