Books on Frame Control

Seppuku

Tribal Elder
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Gents,

I find Frame Control a very useful skill to have, and not just in the context of seduction - like at the office, for instance.

There must be books or articles out there that present Frame Control in a broader perspective, not just seduction, maybe as a psychology or NLP topic or whatever.

Anyone knows a good book on Frame Control?

Cheers,
Seppuku
 

Lotus

Modern Human
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Seppuku,

Completely agree on the power of the frame. So many times I find people coming at me with weak, emotion based frames. Maintaining the same calm frame makes them feel foolish for their own frame instability.

I.e. Customer comes in agitated, makes a big scene and outlandish demands for repirstions. You maintain a calm, rational frame and help them work through the frustrations. Eventually they calm down feel a bit foolish and apologize.

When other people realize they are reacting emotionally to something and you remain in your frame, you have so much power over them. They played their hand while yours remains hidden.

In regards to specific books that help frame control, I'm not sure. But I can say meditation and understanding your inner self are paths to reach stronger frame control, as a strong inner frame leads to a strong outer frame.

I'm glad you brought it up because it has me thinking about situations where my frame strength has hindered or helped me.

- Lotus
 

Richard

Tribal Elder
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I'll see what I can dig up - you won't find much in the ways of NLP or general psychology but you will find "framing" in the realm of advertising psychology. I first learned about framing (at least the definition, anyway) from GirlsChase but the first time I had heard about it in a classroom setting was when we were discussing advertising, specifically;

"90% lean meat" vs "10% fatty meat" <-- These two phrases say the exact same thing but your interpretation of each is far different and you'd be less inclined to buy one if you heard it in an advertisement.

"The car's crashed" vs "The car's bumped" <-- A more recent example I learned in class where we discussed memory malleability and how the phrasing of a sentence can affect the way people remember a situation. In class, the actual example was that two cars had collided at something like 30 mph but when people were interviewed, when the interviewer said "crashed" people reported the cars speeding above 40 mph, parts were scattered, etc. whereas when the interviewer said "bump" people reported 20 mph speeds and very little damage.

Anyway, I looked through my notes from a few semesters ago and found Tversky and Kahneman who discuss framing in both advertising and socializing. It may be worth it to see if they've written any books on the matter; I'd be hard pressed to say that you'll find a book on "framing" itself because it's a relatively simply concept and I don't see it occupying a book but you may find it as a chapter in the broader book. Again, may be worth it to look into Tversky and Kahneman to see what works they've done.

-Richard
 

Seppuku

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Thank you gents!

It's interesting, right? It's powerful, it's always around us, and shaping communication with our peers. Women use it all the times and are masters at it. It's also present and useful in professional life. You would think there would be plenty of books on the subject - in a broader context than just seduction.

Yet, a google search essentially shows PUA / seduction / manosphere links. Looking a little further into the google search, you come across a wikipedia article: Framing_(social_sciences).

No surprise, it shows essentially what you said, Richard. Use in advertisement and mass communication. It points to some research by Kahneman - just like you said.

I will give it a read, but I was more hoping for a book about dealing with, and handling frames on a daily basis - sort of a "Handbook of Frames" - in the same way that you find so many books on body language. That doesn't seem to exist with frames. If I find anything along these lines I will post it here.

Cheers,
Seppuku
 

Richard

Tribal Elder
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Seppuku said:
Thank you gents!

It's interesting, right? It's powerful, it's always around us, and shaping communication with our peers. Women use it all the times and are masters at it. It's also present and useful in professional life. You would think there would be plenty of books on the subject - in a broader context than just seduction.

Yet, a google search essentially shows PUA / seduction / manosphere links. Looking a little further into the google search, you come across a wikipedia article: Framing_(social_sciences).

No surprise, it shows essentially what you said, Richard. Use in advertisement and mass communication. It points to some research by Kahneman - just like you said.

I will give it a read, but I was more hoping for a book about dealing with, and handling frames on a daily basis - sort of a "Handbook of Frames" - in the same way that you find so many books on body language. That doesn't seem to exist with frames. If I find anything along these lines I will post it here.

Cheers,
Seppuku

Cheers buddy.

Since it's something that was brought to my attention and I can't find a definitive answer regarding books it's going to drive me insane until I find a book or answer. If I find anything, myself, I'll post it and if you find anything I'll be happy to give it a read!

-Richard
 

vaquero

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Alchemist said:
The Power of Framing: Creating the Language of Leadership - Perhaps it could be useful.
I hope it could be useful - but OMG here's the easiest passage, from the Preface:
There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way,
who nods at them and says, “ Morning, boys, how’s the water? ” And the two young fi sh swim on for a bit, and then
eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, “ What the hell is water? ”
— David Foster Wallace, commencement
...
And so this book is for leaders or students of leadership who want to have a greater impact on the world through their communications. Echoing David Foster Wallace, it is for the fi sh who want to know about the water.
...
LOL
 

BlackBolt

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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The Book Pitch Anything: An Innovative Method for Presenting, Persuading, and Winning the Deal by Oren Klaff is a great book for frame control. I was reading the book to prepare for a career in marketing after I finish my last semester and was surprised to see the author go into such detail regarding frame control and the different types of frames such as the power frame, intrigue frame, prize frame etc. since I only heard about frames in the seduction community prior to reading the book. The author is involved in Venture Capitalism and has engaged in various multi million and even billion dollar deals with prominent companies and he documents many of the frame battles and "beta traps" that corporations and big time corporate figures attempt to use and how he learned to overcome them to become one of the most successful people in his field. It is a highly rated book and currently at about 4.5 stars on Amazon. He is extremely analytical, backs up his work with "field reports" and scientific research so I believe that you would thoroughly enjoy it.
 

Big Daddy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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@ Richard

Fuck, I never really realized that frames were so present in advertising even though I deal with it a lot.

I reckon we should be able to find a lot of useful information in advertising books. I'll look up my notes I have dozens of them), and will report back.
 

Bow

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I've seen this conversation around frames and frame control and I thought I might add a little bit of value, so here are the main sources that helped me get better at it:
The power bible by William Beteet III and Brendon Lemon
The power of framing (this was mentioned before) and the first edition of the book The Art Of Framing by the same author
LoveSystems Interview series on Frame Control and the seminar on the same subject presented by Fader at the 2013 superconference
Sleight of Mouth by Robert Dilts
Mind lines by Micheal Hall
hope these help you as they much of they offered me, cheers
 
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