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Can a monogamous relationship make you 'weak'?

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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1,016
Hey guys,

I'm enjoying a new relationship with a girl. I have learned to control my emotions a lot better and kept her chasing. She showed me how good it feels to be in a relationship with no game and drama, and I've followed Chase's and Ricardus's advice on managing a relationship. So far, things are going smoothly. But I'm scared that being committed in a relationship will make me 'weak' and less dominant because I've heard men being domesticated by women when they're in a relationship.

Is this an irrational fear? and how do I spot certain behaviours by women who are trying to domesticate their men?

Also, how do you be dominant while not being too oppressive in a relationship?
For example, I would tell her to do something for me, she would say no at first, but then do it later after I persist warmly. Sometimes, I feel bad about this and I feel like I'm forcing her to do things she doesn't want. But I would reward her with a kiss or behave more warmly towards her if she complies and she seems to like it. So I'm not sure if I'm managing this right.

Cheers
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Feb 14, 2013
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1,488
It's probably quite different answer than you are looking for, but IMO equally important because you are talking long term relationships, and when a guy is starting such relationship he is simply blinded by love. He makes excuses for her, he tolerates lots of stuff because she is so sweet, he justifies her behavior and so on... But love is gone after a while, and all is left is reality:


I think it is all relative... your personality, her personality, age, family habits that you observed and learned, social environment you both were raised in...

For example, if she is younger, say her early 20's, she will be inexperienced, she will have more open mind, and she can "fit" better your behavior. Now 10-15 years later, she will feel the pressure to have family, she will want to have provider, and she will have experience with other guys... She will simply know exactly what she wants, and she will find a guy who she can mold into her desired 'shape', if you know what I mean...

Perhaps it is in her nature to domesticate man. If you are not naturally dominant or if you don't persistently work on dominance, you may have problems. She will be like a water, she will mold you into her picture slowly but surly over long period of time. You won't even realize but then one day you'll wake up and you will be domesticated. You will be cooking and cleaning, you will be going shopping with her (and feel good about it), you will be careful what to say in front of her so you don't "hurt" her feelings, you will be providing without questioning. You will be asking for permissions, you will be apologizing for this or that behavior. You will simply be behaving like female, or much worse - you will be male with no balls, man who doesn't do any manly things...

After a while she will most likely start denying you sex, and you will be "understanding" of her needs. She may need space away from you (translated: you are too fucking boring while she is dreaming about fucking her brains out with some loser). You might be blamed for this and that, some totally stupid nonsense. She won't do much in the household, she will be messy and disorganized, she won't really clean, and when you say something it will always turn against you. She will make it seem like you are the one who creates all the problems, the blame and guilt will be on you. You won't be able to make many decisions, somehow it will be always her will that goes through...

Basically you will just give up on making decisions because it will be less emotional pain for you. You will be doing things for her without questioning, you will be trying to figure out what else you have to do to in order to keep HER happy. You will never find the answer, yet you will never ask the right questions either - what is she actually doing for you? What is she doing to keep YOU happy??? Does she keep in great physical shape for you? Does she clean or Cook for you? Take care of her children? Save your money? Keep the household organized? You won't ask the question because you will not want to hear the answer: NOTHING. Zero, FUCKING NADA...

Sounds like worse case scenario? Well, look around families and think twice. You should FEAR women like that, you should keep away from them as far as possible.

On the other hand, there are great girls/women who will treat you very well, so if you are "lucky" enjoy.

Another thing, you are actually not marrying her only, you are marrying her whole family, especially that bitch (also known as mother in law). If your girl is close to her you may suffer greatly, not even mentioning cases when mother in law is typical fat, ugly and entitled feminist who feels great about herself, and has a great smile on her red lips because everybody loves her for the fact that she is so sweet... Right.

So the best way is to observe the family dynamics, how her family behaves, whether the father has dominant position in family who is respected, or whether he is just a putz who is afraid to talk. If her mother is fat, ugly and entitled feminist who doesn't respect men, what is the likelihood that she will be just like that one day? I'll tell you, the likelihood is very high.

Lastly, finances are important. Fuck all that feminist equality crap, you don't want to be equal at all. You want to make more money than she does. Hopefully you'll have at least the same level of education like her, if not higher. You want to be in charge, you want to be the one whose words are respected. You want to be the one who walks away when she pisses you off, leaving her behind, not the other way. They always tell you that money is not important. That is a pure lie, money is very important. Get your own place, pay for it with your own money - and only if you really like that girl allow her to move in with you...
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Franco

Tribal Elder
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3,637
Smith,

Is this an irrational fear? and how do I spot certain behaviours by women who are trying to domesticate their men?

It depends on a few things. The biggest thing it might depend on is where you were at mentally before you entered the relationship. Did you have at least a slight feeling of abundance at that point? Did you get into this relationship because you felt like she was the best you would ever get, or did you get into it because you saw her as a girl with unique personality traits that would be more enjoyable for an extended period of time?

If you're lacking abundance when entering a long-term relationship, then you're much more likely to set yourself up to becoming "domesticated" by the woman because, at any point in the relationship where you feel like you're going to "lose" her if you don't do something, you end up coming across as weak because you yield to her demands (rather than doing the opposite and "kicking her out" if she's being excessively unreasonable with you). Abundance plays an important role in how you view the relationship (i.e. "if this woman begins crossing the line, I have no problems dumping her and finding something better" vs. "oh god, I think I went too far... what happens if I lose her? No, I don't want to lose her... I'm not sure I can replace her")

Also, how do you be dominant while not being too oppressive in a relationship?
For example, I would tell her to do something for me, she would say no at first, but then do it later after I persist warmly. Sometimes, I feel bad about this and I feel like I'm forcing her to do things she doesn't want.

This isn't really the way you go about exerting "dominance" in the relationship, lest you want to have her completely whipped into a role where she feels no control or independence whatsoever (thus causing her to become more dependent on you to lead at every turn... which might be your preference, but that's up to you). Generally by dominance we mean that you passively exert your control and confidence. So, it's not really that you just boss around your girlfriend and have her do things for you that she doesn't want to do but rather that you always kind of do your own thing when you want to do it, and if she challenges you or tests you and tries to wrangle control away, you stand your ground and explain to her why that is the stance your are taking. When you win those battles, it reminds her of why she dates you -- you're in control of what you want, and you don't let trivial things (which is what women will try to make into "big things") get in your way.

EDIT: It's also important to know when you need to apologize, which should be rare if you're doing things effectively. This usually has to do with making promises that you're going to do something and then not going through with it, otherwise hurting or upsetting her. You have to own up to these things, apologize, and then move on from it. Obviously, the best way to avoid this is to not make mistakes in the first place.

At the same time, it's also important to be considerate of your girlfriend's wants and needs to show that you care. Remember, as the boyfriend, your goal is to the lover, the provider, and the friend -- if your girlfriend starts to feel more like your servant than your friend, then it's not fun for either one of you. You should attempt to do things for her that make her happy, but you don't want to do these things because she asks you to do them (which is just caving in to her demands) and instead do them because you WANT to do them. One simple example of this might be her wanting a new dress really badly during the summer or fall, and of course you smile and acknowledge that it would be nice. Then, maybe for Christmas (when she's no longer talking about it much), you end up buying her that dress as a gift. It shows you care, but you didn't just go out and buy her the dress right when she wanted it.

It's really a balance that can take practice to learn how to maintain, but the overall idea is that you treat her warmly all the time, but you never cave into petty arguments or stupid demands. Most of those arguments and demands come from her insecurity and desire to test you as a man, and every time you stand your ground and pass those tests, it reminds her of why she wanted to be with you in the first place. =)

- Franco
 

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
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Messages
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Thanks Drck and Franco! Great answers!

Drck wrote:
Perhaps it is in her nature to domesticate man. If you are not naturally dominant or if you don't persistently work on dominance, you may have problems. She will be like a water, she will mold you into her picture slowly but surly over long period of time. You won't even realize but then one day you'll wake up and you will be domesticated. You will be cooking and cleaning, you will be going shopping with her (and feel good about it), you will be careful what to say in front of her so you don't "hurt" her feelings, you will be providing without questioning. You will be asking for permissions, you will be apologizing for this or that behavior. You will simply be behaving like female, or much worse - you will be male with no balls, man who doesn't do any manly things...

After a while she will most likely start denying you sex, and you will be "understanding" of her needs. She may need space away from you (translated: you are too fucking boring while she is dreaming about fucking her brains out with some loser). You might be blamed for this and that, some totally stupid nonsense. She won't do much in the household, she will be messy and disorganized, she won't really clean, and when you say something it will always turn against you. She will make it seem like you are the one who creates all the problems, the blame and guilt will be on you. You won't be able to make many decisions, somehow it will be always her will that goes through...

I felt like I'm starting to exhibit one of those domesticated behaviour already lol - be careful what I say to not 'hurt' her feeling. This reminds me to just say the things I wanted, like I always do when I'm around women. I will keep an eye on myself for these behaviours in the future.
It's funny that she's reluctant to have sex with me because she's scared of getting pregnant (well sometimes we go raw, but I'm really careful not to ejaculate inside her), but we still end up having sex whenever I want because sex is a deal breaker for me in a relationship haha. At first I thought it's because the sex wasn't good, so yesterday when she came over, I made sure it was good and rough and she seemed to loved it, but she's still quite scared of getting pregnant even though I used condoms this time. When she left, I even checked the condoms weren't broken afterwards to reassure myself because I was being really rough lol.
I feel like I need to keep meeting women to sharpen my masculine traits - to lead, be decisive, be self-amused, outcome independent...etc, - while I'm in a relationship.

Franco wrote:
If you're lacking abundance when entering a long-term relationship, then you're much more likely to set yourself up to becoming "domesticated" by the woman because, at any point in the relationship where you feel like you're going to "lose" her if you don't do something, you end up coming across as weak because you yield to her demands (rather than doing the opposite and "kicking her out" if she's being excessively unreasonable with you). Abundance plays an important role in how you view the relationship (i.e. "if this woman begins crossing the line, I have no problems dumping her and finding something better" vs. "oh god, I think I went too far... what happens if I lose her? No, I don't want to lose her... I'm not sure I can replace her")

I decided to get into a relationship with her when I slept with two girls in a week, so that's when I'm sure of my ability to replace women, and looking back at all the women I've slept with, I'm starting to get together with girls who are better in terms of look and personality. She has a unique and sweet personality that would make her a great gf. I'm sure even if things don't work out between us, I will be able to find girls that are at least equal or better than her.
When she was reluctant to have sex with me (even though we already did it a couple of times before), I was a little bothered and ready to end it right there, but I think I've communicated to her how important sex is to me. Even if her fear of getting pregnant may be real, I know I still have a lot to learn about sex and how to please women, but it's a fun experience learning these things ;)

Franco wrote:
This isn't really the way you go about exerting "dominance" in the relationship, lest you want to have her completely whipped into a role where she feels no control or independence whatsoever (thus causing her to become more dependent on you to lead at every turn... which might be your preference, but that's up to you). Generally by dominance we mean that you passively exert your control and confidence. So, it's not really that you just boss around your girlfriend and have her do things for you that she doesn't want to do but rather that you always kind of do your own thing when you want to do it, and if she challenges you or tests you and tries to wrangle control away, you stand your ground and explain to her why that is the stance your are taking. When you win those battles, it reminds her of why she dates you -- you're in control of what you want, and you don't let trivial things (which is what women will try to make into "big things") get in your way.

Ahhh! I was a little confused if I was being dominant or overbearing, but this clears that up lol.

Great answers! Thanks again.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
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6,247
Smith-

To build on what Drck is talking about, the taming process is a pretty natural monogamous relationship pattern that occurs at various speeds depending on the relative strength of the man and woman involved, the environment they find themselves in, and whether or not the man is focused on external objectives to the relationship and how they stack up in importance to him vs. how she does.

For instance, if you hop into monogamy with a really fiery, dynamic girl, expect her to wear you down and reach the point where she's wearing the pants in the relationship much sooner than a quieter, more submissive woman will, and ultimately in a more dominant, overt, assertive way. Whereas the quieter woman who's fully tamed you will tend to use sweetness to get what she wants and still maintain a feminine air about herself, more assertive women will drop the pretenses and simply order you about.

Whether the environment you live in is more pro-"Men are great and can do anything and are the masters of the universe!" or more pro-"Women are strong and independent and can do everything and don't need a man!" will determine how quickly the taming process occurs as well. These sentiments tend to echo social opportunities for women to cast off men, and the less a woman needs you in a monogamous relationship, the more quickly you'll tend to find yourself serving as the 'one down'.

Your external goals (your mission) are also a big determiner of how quickly and thoroughly a woman can tame you. The bigger your external goals are and the more committed to them you are, the more taming-proof you are. Most men do not have large external goals, or the ones they do have are mostly just fancy that are given up in the face of a woman pressuring them with, "If you don't [X], I don't think I can be with you anymore."

The most important of these is probably the man's desire to not be monogamous; men who fully mentally commit to monogamy and quit looking for new women experience a 50% decline in testosterone, which means a big drop in assertiveness, risk-taking, confidence, and ultimately the ability to stick to one's guns and not buckle.

I've watched numerous friends with supposedly big missions give those up for women when push came to shove because they let themselves get too monogamous and spent a lot more time hanging out with their woman than they did working on their missions. The woman eventually superseded the importance of the mission in their minds, and when she put an ultimatum on them where it was the woman or the mission, they chose the woman (although interestingly enough, typically when you are mission-oriented, and women present you with these ultimatums, you will shrug and say, "Okay. If you're going to force me to choose, then I choose my mission," and then the woman will stick around anyway, and be way more into you than the woman of the man who sacrifices his mission for her is).

Several studies have shown that the stablest long-term relationships are the ones where the woman is in charge, and the most satisfying long-term monogamous relationships tend to be between men and women with low levels of testosterone - killing testosterone is the body's way of saying, "Okay, your exploration and conquest period is over, now it's time to settle down and make babies and raise 'em proper."

So, normally, a monogamous relationship is going to lead to a steep decline in testosterone as it progresses. And this decline in testosterone will make you less masculine and assertive and dominant, and more nurturing and dependable and willing to compromise. If the latter is what you mean by 'weak', then yes, it will make you weak, but it's designed by biology to make you a stabler father, which is the route that most men will eventually follow (the alternative is being the unshackled guy who goes around shagging different women and impregnating various women, but this guy typically needs either exceptional levels of game or lots of power and money, and most men won't be able to pull this off; biology opts for them to become good fathers instead, and rather than focus on producing a large quantity of offspring, they have a few, and focus their resources into nurturing them as best they can).

If you don't want the taming process to take hold, then:

1. Keep meeting new women, and have this be more important to you than maintaining your relationship, and/or
2. Have a grand project you are working on that is more important to you than maintaining your relationship

Either or both of these things must be things that if push comes to shove you'd walk away from your relationship without thinking twice to not give up. The hopeless romantics who hear that will say, "Well if that's the case, you just haven't met the right girl!"

However, when I see those hopeless romantics, all I can say is, "Well if this is the case for you, then you clearly have not been sufficiently inspired yet."

Chase
 

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
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Thanks Chase!

For instance, if you hop into monogamy with a really fiery, dynamic girl, expect her to wear you down and reach the point where she's wearing the pants in the relationship much sooner than a quieter, more submissive woman will, and ultimately in a more dominant, overt, assertive way. Whereas the quieter woman who's fully tamed you will tend to use sweetness to get what she wants and still maintain a feminine air about herself, more assertive women will drop the pretenses and simply order you about.

This is pretty spot on! my gf is the quieter and more submissive type who use sweetness to get what she want, and sometimes it's hard to maintain your masculine frame, but you've got to maintain it no matter what. The first couple of times she tried to use sweetness to get what she want, it was a bit hard to say no to her and I felt a little bad afterwards (maybe there's still a little nice guy in me), but even though she was a bit sad at first, her attraction actually increases afterwards. For example, she wanted to see me a lot at first and told me she missed me a lot...etc, but I was busy and I knew I had to set the right precedence from the start and we can't see each other too often. She started calling me an asshole in a playful way afterwards, which told me I made a good decision sticking to my guns. I think I can finally understand what it means to be an asshole. It's the ability to stick to your frame and not compromising yourself to please her, which I now just realized goes against mainstream dating advice haha.

So, normally, a monogamous relationship is going to lead to a steep decline in testosterone as it progresses. And this decline in testosterone will make you less masculine and assertive and dominant, and more nurturing and dependable and willing to compromise. If the latter is what you mean by 'weak', then yes, it will make you weak, but it's designed by biology to make you a stabler father, which is the route that most men will eventually follow (the alternative is being the unshackled guy who goes around shagging different women and impregnating various women, but this guy typically needs either exceptional levels of game or lots of power and money, and most men won't be able to pull this off; biology opts for them to become good fathers instead, and rather than focus on producing a large quantity of offspring, they have a few, and focus their resources into nurturing them as best they can).

Yes, I felt a little 'weak' as the relationship progresses and I couldn't understand why. I found myself more inclined to stay within my comfort zone whereas before I would push it whenever I could. I have to keep going out and meeting new women in order to practice being more assertive and dominant, otherwise I found myself starting to compromise too much in my relationship, second guessing myself and not being able to lead when I should have (and all these things are important in seduction). I would also lose my confidence in other areas if I don't go out practice seduction and maintain my masculinity.

I think I've got over the phase of neediness and insecurity in a relationship as I understand what they are. I would say probably 95% of the time, it's all in our head. Stupid, insecure thoughts make us needy and chase the girl away, when in reality there might not be anything you've done wrong.

I couldn't agree more with u guys more about finding a bigger purpose in life than girls. Right now, I'm still meeting new women, but I want to find a bigger mission than seduction.

Cheers
 
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