Can someone help me understand this girl?

[LoneWolf14]

A while ago I was talking to this girl who seemed really into me. She was texting me the whole time, she was doing stuff that would push the interaction forward and I only had to respond.We were seeing each other, texting each other, making out, pussy rubbing, tit sucking (she resisted to having sex though because she wanted me as a boyfriend and were only talking for a few days). After a while she thought I was playing her and she went into auto-rejection. After that we had a couple of nasty fights which made it even worse.

A week ago I found her on Tinder and I started some banter. She was giving short answers and would take forever to write me back. She looked like a classic case described by Chase in the Attraction Paradox article. So i left it at that and messaged her yesterday regarding a story she posted. Some more banter, we used to banter a lot and had great fun doing so. She was barely answering and eventually stopped.

I waited a few hours and texted her this:

me: are you still mad at me after all this time? (last time we had a fight was a month ago)
her: not mad, but that doesn't mean that I haven't forgotten. I don't wanna talk about this again (I guess the translation would be 'yeah i'm still mad', right?)
me: neither do I, plus it was so long ago. We used to have so much fun and I would like us to get along like we used to
her: alright, I agree we should get along like we used to )

So I asked her out and she obviously declined, but I was expecting this to happen, plus we're having finals so I can't say I'm too eager to go out myself.

So what happened next was that we literally started talking like we used to. She was answering instantly, no more short answers, she was sending me pics, videos, laughing. She said she was going to sleep, ended it with 'good night, sweet dreams' and actually went off.

All the flakiness went from 100 to 0 in an instant and I'm like what the actual fuck, it can't be this easy. What the hell is going on?

I know I pursued a little but I did it in a non-needy way so I don't think that my value took such a hard hit, plus since she was auto-rejecting I feel like I had to down my value a bit and up the comfort.

SO what do you guys think?

 

[foggy]

she stopped seeing you because she thought you were a player who wouldnt commit to her.

when you saw her on tinder, you communicated a willingness to commit to her, which is what she wanted all along.

 

[LoneWolf14]

she stopped seeing you because she thought you were a player who wouldnt commit to her.

when you saw her on tinder, you communicated a willingness to commit to her, which is what she wanted all along.

What got me confused was the fact that she wrote that line like this when I told her that I wanted to get along well again:

her: alright, I agree we should get along like we used to )

Maybe I'm paranoid / overthinking but I thought she was making fun of me.

However, I'm also thinking that had her respect for me gone so low that she would make fun of me like that, she wouldn't bother keeping the conversation going and continue texting me. What also happened since I saw her on Tinder was that, literally each time I'm posting a story on Instagram she's watching it instantly, and I post there quite a lot.

We haven't spoken since though.

Read parts of your journal and saw you had similar problems as well. How would you handle this one? She knows (I hope) that I won't blow up her phone and that I won't be her texting buddy, made that clear from the beginning. I'm occasionally pinging her and that's all.

 

[foggy]

i do remember being in a similar situation...but im a little confused.

did she actually say she wanted you as a boyfriend? and did she actually say she thought you were playing her? if she did, why do you think this was? and what were the fights about? some more clarity on the situation would be nice

one thing to keep in mind is that this whole issue could have been avoided if you fucked her the very first moment you had a chance.

her: alright, I agree we should get along like we used to )

I highly doubt she was making fun of you.

lemme get it straight tho. After you expressed interest in having things return to normal with her, you had just one conversation with her where she invested. but after that you guys haven't chatted?

Even though it sounds like you're on OK terms with her now, she's probably not gonna make it easy for you or anything.

Maybe you could flaunt some preselection on IG and then ask her to hang out. Just make absolute sure you bang her.

 

[LoneWolf14]

i do remember being in a similar situation...but im a little confused.

did she actually say she wanted you as a boyfriend? and did she actually say she thought you were playing her? if she did, why do you think this was? and what were the fights about? some more clarity on the situation would be nice

one thing to keep in mind is that this whole issue could have been avoided if you fucked her the very first moment you had a chance.

her: alright, I agree we should get along like we used to )

I highly doubt she was making fun of you.

lemme get it straight tho. After you expressed interest in having things return to normal with her, you had just one conversation with her where she invested. but after that you guys haven't chatted?

Even though it sounds like you're on OK terms with her now, she's probably not gonna make it easy for you or anything.

Maybe you could flaunt some preselection on IG and then ask her to hang out. Just make absolute sure you bang her.

Well there's way more to it than I mentioned but it would've made for a long post.

So she's social circle. She joined a student association I'm a part of and I've been her trainer for 2 weeks. That's how it all started. She never said that she wanted me as a boyfriend but I had clear enough hints that she did. This whole thing was initiated by her and she knew the risks. A trainer and a trainee screwing each other happens rarely and it's quite risky since we can both get into trouble, especially me since I'm also the one who approved her joining the association so the integrity of the whole process would be questioned. Nevertheless she moved things forward at the beginning and I went along with it. So sure enough, after a while a lot of gossip has been going around about us and she became very nervous because of it.

However I didn't want her to perceive me as a provider so early on, so while I tried to keep a low profile, I wasn't really making clear enough efforts to keep the pressure off her. Other hints that she wanted me as a boyfriend would be the fact that she said I'm like a father to her, she got really mad when I didn't text for a couple of days and that's when she said I was playing her and she's been throwing shit at me ever since. Yet, probably the biggest hint was the fact that shortly after, we started fighting and she said that she didn't see this going anywhere and that she wouldn't want to see me. Note that I never initiated any relationship talk and we've been talking for roughly two weeks when she said that.

And the very fact that she didn't let me fuck her when I was over at her place is a hint in itself. I mean we had only been kissing and talking for like 4 days at that point. She would let me suck on dem titties, stimulate her etc, but no actual sex, even though she was quite turned on.

She said that I'm like the other guys (she meant fuckboys) and kept repeating over and over again that I didn't care about her. She said that she's not like the other girls that I'm talking to and that she won't do as I please and stuff like that.

The reason why i didn't mention any of these was because this happened quite long ago, however this is the main reason why she had gone cold towards me ever since.

The fights were mainly about me not caring about her. Then, as time went by, we started arguing about the gossips going around about us and she didn't want us to be seen together, not even casually talking. I suppose that she decided the risk of being associated with me wasn't worth it since she saw me as unattainable anyway.

No we haven't chatted since we spoke like 4 days ago and I'm not really expecting her to initiate, despite the fact that yes, she was invested in that particular chat, for the first time in a very long time. She's quite passive-aggressive so no, she's not gonna make it easy, I know that. I'm only trying to text her ever once in a while and trying to joke around and stuff since I want to create good emotions so she won't resent me as much.

So right now I'm a bit worried that I've put myself into a bit of chasing role, though I'm not sure. She told me about her exes, guys that she actually ended up being together with, and they did some really fucked up stalkerish stuff. Me messaging her ever once in a while and telling her that I want to get along with her again once is nowhere near as creepy as what she told me about those exes.

However, I must admit that I'm quite obsessed with not looking like your typical nice guy (even though I've never been one anyway) and that's why I'm afraid to not look like I'm chasing, since it's not clear to me yet what's being perceived as chasing and what's being perceived as persistence.

Definitely gonna use IG for preselection since I'm gonna go out with a got girl friend of mine in a couple of days. Plus she knows I'm on Tinder, so yeah... She knows I'm not there to make friends.

Anyway, you said you had a similar situation. What was yours like?

 

[foggy]

Other hints that she wanted me as a boyfriend would be the fact that she said I'm like a father to her

she got really mad when I didn't text for a couple of days and that's when she said I was playing her

Yet, probably the biggest hint was the fact that shortly after, we started fighting and she said that she didn't see this going anywhere and that she wouldn't want to see me. Note that I never initiated any relationship talk and we've been talking for roughly two weeks when she said that.

And the very fact that she didn't let me fuck her when I was over at her place is a hint in itself. I mean we had only been kissing and talking for like 4 days at that point. She would let me suck on dem titties, stimulate her etc, but no actual sex, even though she was quite turned on.

none of these things suggest that she wanted you as a boyfriend.

She said that I'm like the other guys (she meant fuckboys) and kept repeating over and over again that I didn't care about her.

Did you qualify her?

Anyway, you said you had a similar situation. What was yours like?

I remember in february of 2018, i was in my room hanging with a girl named rach that i clicked very well with. she came over and we were hooking up within minutes. i didnt bang her cuz she was resisting pretty heavily.

During her resistance, she was exhibiting all sorts of behaviour, that, at the time, i thought suggested she had put me in the boyfriend zone. talking about us hanging in the future, complimenting me, cuddling me, gushing over how happy she was to be with me, worried that i was a fuckboy...

So I chilled out and didn't try to get past her resistance cuz i thought id see her again. And I didn't want to be too pushy, which i thought would scare her off.

My conversations and interactions with her after that all came from the mindset that I was in the boyfriend zone. I was so worried about my attainability and that she thought I was a fuckboy. I didn't know how to fix it. I ended up losing her.

Want to hear the truth?

I was NOT in the boyfriend zone. Getting more experience with women gave me clarity on the subject. I know what the boyfriend zone is now, because I've actively practised setting a relationship frame with women. What I used to think was the boyfriend zone is not the actual boyfriend zone. So many girls I've been with have complimented me and cuddled me and told me how happy they were during sex. But they didn't want me as a boyfriend.

The problem was me failing to escalate and not banging her when I had the chance. If you don't do that, it creates all sorts of issues.

For further reading, I suggest taking a look at the field report from the situation i've described above. You should read Seppuku's comment on it, he provides a ton of insight.

 

[LoneWolf14]

Thanks for you insightful answer. The reason why I said she viewed me as a boyfriend was because by the time I came across this girl, I knew the stuff on this site in and out and I also read Chase's book. There is an article which lists signs like the ones that I gave as signs that a girl sees you as a potential boyfriend. I will look after it and link you to it.

When I ended up at her place, I did so because we went there with her group of trainees to celebrate the fact that they became members within our association. By this time, they smelled that something was up so at some point they said 'we're leaving, have fun' and left just the two of us. Over the course of multiple hours I kept escalating. Biting her neck, her tits, licking her tits, kissing all over her body etc. Whenever I tried to remove them panties - bang: LMR. So I did push and pull tactics, I started talking to her, we smoked, at some point she was on top of me and wanted to make out and i wouldn't let her. I knew that I had to do it right there and then because, again, I knew very well the material. At some point I stimulated her with my hand through her panties and she was breathing so heavily and we were making out and she shoved that tongue so deep inside my throat I was literally choking. She was definitely into it but still wouldn't let me remove those panties. So after 4 attempts I realized that she simply won't let me do it that night. I heard this happen before and people still get together afterwards. Some girls, especially really structured ones, simply won't let you fuck them sometimes. I live in Eastern Europe and women are very structured here, regardless of the shit media stereotypes spread in the west, western girls are way sluttier and LMR is routine over here.

And i doubt that this was the issue since we picked up from where we left the other day. We saw each other at yet another meeting within the association, afterwards she was texting me and we had a date set for the other day which was going to be our actual first date.

Things started going sideways when she asked me to send her something and i didn't see the text. When I woke up she was a bit pissed that i ignored her and she cancelled the date. After I explained it all to her, she went back to being nice again and said that she was feeling really sick (and she really was), yet she made a counter offer. So I started over-gaming her like a moron and I rejected the offer. We still saw each other at yet another meeting and things were fine as far as she was concerned but i was acting a bit aloof.

So remember that I told you that we had gossip going around about us. I told her that I'm unhappy with the way she's handling the situation. She was doing some stuff that was annoying me but i won't go into detail about it since it's not relevant. So I told her jokingly that unless she quits annoying me I will block her on whatsapp. She knew that I was joking. So at that meeting she annoyed me and i pulled my phone out and pressed 'block' in front of her. Her face was shocked but she knew I was joking. Yeah it was a childish joke, but we were doing a lot of banter like that.

So 5 days went by with no sign from her. Up to this point, she was always initiating texting, even after that night when I came across LMR. So I realized that something was wrong and I messaged her. So from this point on I explained the situation in my previous posts. We started arguing and stuff.

So my concern right now is not whether she saw me as a boyfriend or not. I'm quite sure that she saw me as a longer-term prospect of some sort, because of the specifics of the situation. Yet again, it was a risky one and it did necessitate us either getting together and not having anything to do with each other, because of the statuses we both had when it all started. There is an article that Chase made about how much getting together with you would cost for a girl. He identifies a number of key areas where you must lower your costs. If your costs are too high in those particular areas, the girl won't risk it. So by mistake i actually raised my costs in those areas, such as image, since she thought I didn't care and that I would dump her and that she would be seen as a slut who fucked her trainer in order to gain access into the association. So forget about the hints that I gave earlier. We can debate all day whether those count as signs that she wanted me as a boyfriend or not. It's the specifics of the whole situation that made it safer for both to either appear as a couple, or to have nothing going between the two of us, because of the social risks involved.

My concern right now is about my attainability in her eyes. I have no doubt that my attainability had become low and she went into auto-rejection. She exhibits all the signs of a girl in auto-rejection, she's almost a walking stereotype, as far as auto-rejection goes. However, I know that our last encounter over text raised my attainability since she did respond to my effort this time.

What worries me right now is that my latest effort might be seen as chasing by her. I'm still learning about what is seen as persistence and what is seen as chasing. When I hit her up as I described in my op, I wasn't feeling needy at all and did my best to showcase my mindset of 'hey, I'd like to give it another shot' and 'hey, I want you but i don't need you' over text. However, she (like most women) has a habit of making stupid assumptions so this is why I asked for critique over my latest move over here.

So, leaving the 'boyfriend or not' thing outside of the discussion, does your critique in your other responses stand? Is there anything you'd add / take away?

Thanks for your insights!

 

[foggy]

My concern right now is about my attainability in her eyes. I have no doubt that my attainability had become low and she went into auto-rejection. She exhibits all the signs of a girl in auto-rejection, she's almost a walking stereotype, as far as auto-rejection goes. However, I know that our last encounter over text raised my attainability since she did respond to my effort this time.

What worries me right now is that my latest effort might be seen as chasing by her. I'm still learning about what is seen as persistence and what is seen as chasing. When I hit her up as I described in my op, I wasn't feeling needy at all and did my best to showcase my mindset of 'hey, I'd like to give it another shot' and 'hey, I want you but i don't need you' over text. However, she (like most women) has a habit of making stupid assumptions so this is why I asked for critique over my latest move over here.

So, leaving the 'boyfriend or not' thing outside of the discussion, does your critique in your other responses stand? Is there anything you'd add / take away?

Thanks for your insights!

whenever im concerned about if im being needy or coming across as chase-y, i ask myself...if i had an abundance of pussy, would i still be acting the same?

this guideline from chase regarding chasing is also one that i evaluate my behaviour against:

Would this girl I'm with do this thing herself to keep things going / moving forward, or not?

When the answer is "yes", you can safely do it - whatever it is - without having to worry about her interpreting it as pursuit (and instead, many times, being delighted with your actions and increasingly excited about where things are leading).

the text exchange between you two was definitely not needy, nor chasing.

lets pretend for a sec that this had happened: she shows strong disinterest after you state your desire to see her again. you persist. she continues to show strong disinterest to the point where it's clear she doesn't want anything to do with you. but you continue to persist. at this point, you're going through herculean efforts to change her mind, and are acting oblivious to her feelings for your own sake. thats neediness. only a man with a scarcity mindset would do that.

and, it wasnt chasing because she actually wanted you to show interest in seeing her again.

next steps....you're right, you need to focus on getting your attainability back up. right now, she's probably can't be sure that you're serious about her. so you need to display commitment to let her know that youre not fucking around. it can take a bit of reassurance and coaxing before she fully believes it. dont be afraid to text her again, and dont be afraid to initiate regular contact with her, if she's receptive. and try to get her out sooner rather than later. remember its not chasing if she wants it to happen!

 

[LoneWolf14]

Thanks for your guidelines. Right now I don't have any indicators that she wants anything to happen or not, but I guess that's normal for a girl in auto-rejection. She keeps checking my stories as soon as I post them though so I guess that she must have some sort of level of interest in me.

I was worried that our text exchange might come across as needy because I was a little bit needy in the past during our fights but I guess that people are needy anyway whenever they fight so I'm not sure it counts. Right now we're both having finals and I'm focused on that and I'm pretty sure that so is the case for her so I'll have to delay my moves but I will text her something funny from time to time.

 

[mindful]

Seems like more trouble than it's worth. Once a girl has a certain view about you it's pretty hard to change... better off just pursuing other girls.

Girls are masters at luring you back in then never meeting you again or try to make it very difficult for you in continued pursuit.

 

[LoneWolf14]

Seems like more trouble than it's worth. Once a girl has a certain view about you it's pretty hard to change... better off just pursuing other girls.

Girls are masters at luring you back in then never meeting you again or try to make it very difficult for you in continued pursuit.

What view are you talking about? Can you be more specific?

Also, pinging ever once in a while is just light, efortless pursuit.