Can This Situation Be Salvaged?

[Casanova Newhouse]

Background:
I'm sprung on this very sexy woman with whom I slept with once. She broke it off three months ago, but we've been hanging out and corresponding frequently since. Check out my "Limerance Journal" for all the tawdry details. The journal has been really helping me overcome my approach anxiety as I learn daygame, shoutouts to @gameboy and @ZenRising for their advice and sharing their own situations. Those two are talented writers authentically sharing their self-improvement journeys, highly recommend. All the journal writers, actually, it's my favorite section of the forum.

Tl;dr - Limerance is an intrusive, romantic obsession. I've had it at least six times in my life and it can take years to get over. And don't tell me to GFTOW - because I've been doing that and it only seems to make matters worse. Other girls just don't compare in attractiveness when I'm stuck in a limerance loop. Not even the ex-ex, on whom I was sprung for years and years. It's really only since getting involved with this sexy little pony that I've truly put that limerance struggle behind me. Trading one for another - like the bizarro version of having a song stuck in your head until another ear worm comes along.

I felt like I was eventually getting over my current obsession, had a couple of abortive reconciliations with the ex-ex, dating at least a dozen women (slept with three) in the three months since shit went sideways. Then we spent three hours yesterday hiking, deep diving on sharing our dreams, ambitions, vulnerabilities, struggles, etc., i. e. communing on a soul level in nature, and I am now feeling that strange pang of longing again. I have zero perspective - if she said today let's go to Vegas and get married, I'd say, what took you so long?

Here's a partial repost from my journal:

After our first one-on-one encounter (want to be clear it wasn't a date, just getting drinks to discuss an issue of mutual interest) I pulled her back to my gaff for a drink, and when we were heavy into the making out, she said, "I could see sleeping with you in six months." I took that to mean she was imagining I'd be the kind of guy she could be with in a long-term relationship.

We bantered back and forth about the six-month countdown. I made a calendar entry for the "Sex Date With Sexy Sadie (not her real name) with which we had lots of fun imagining how it would go down.

Then, a few days later when our first actual date happened, we got to the dirty really fast. It wasn't great, a little performance anxiety softened me up a time or two, but the boner came raging back and let's say it wasn't perfect but it felt like a promising start to a lot of sexy good times ahead. For me, it's usually not til the third encounter that I find my groove in the masculine-feminine polarity and away we go.

We were supposed to get together for an outdoor event a few days later, but we got rained out, I suggested a few fun alternatives, she demurred and suggested lunch instead. She told me at lunch it wasn't happening. I was hurt but took it stoically. She made it clear that she didn't want to string me along, but said she wanted to keep a place in my life.

When we were emailing back and forth about something else, she obliquely mentioned not wanting to get into a relationship with me because she "was afraid our friendship would become something else, and then when it went wrong, I'd be left feeling more alone than before." Seemed sincere. She also mentioned the age gap. I scoffed at that - less than a dozen years when I've been dating girls less than half my age? She's practically a crone by comparison.

Today during our hike I (mock) complained about her being like all the other girls and booty-calling me. She said it happened because I was pretty insistent, but then amended her statement, "I own the booty calling. It was a lot of fun and I don't regret it." We ended on a high note, but my mood immediately started to slump.

Am I wasting my time? Or based on available evidence, can this be turned around?

Points to Ponder:
• I am not on social media, but she comments on a lot of posts in which I am mentioned (which is quite a few as a high-profile person).

• She showed up at a performance of mine last week without a personal invitation, just from a big group evite. It went exceedingly well, my fellow performers and I are the talk of the town this week.

• She frequently mentions how attractive I am - looks and personality (disregard how needy I appear here, trust me when I say that I hide it well in real life).

• I mentioned yesterday that she was the third or fourth oldest girl that I had been dating in the year-plus since my 10-year relationship broke up. Then I told her a recent story about a girl I caught lying about her age. She asked if I was dating? I said, "Well if you want to call it that." My intuition said she was either hurt or curious or both. I didn't ask her the same because I didn't want to know.

• I told her that I knew what girls wanted from me (I get a lot of booty calls from girls from my past) and that I was having a harder and harder time convincing myself that I was OK with it. "Now you know how I feel," she said. That's when she said she wasn't going to put any stank on our solo sexual encounter but instead treasured it.

• Of the six limerance struggles I've had, I have ended up in relationship with three, including one marriage. So I know it's not impossible, but I also know when a girl breaks up with you, she's usually pretty certain that she's just not that into you. But why does she still seem interesting in hanging out? Why do our conversations seem to be getting deeper and deeper into our own intimate shorthand? For example, when she describes an emotional moment from her past, it often feels like I'm hearing my words coming out of her (pretty) mouth. I know it's mirror neurons at work, but I told her it makes me feel less alone. She seemed to melt.

• Do women ever really mean it when they say they want to remain friends?

 

[Marcellus]

I'll do a bigger response when I've got time but what I can ask right now is why are you taking everything this girl says so literally? it's all bullshit lol
You slept with this girl. You have the power now. It's on you to set the frames and terms that you want. And by doing that you will give her what she REALLY WANTS, not what she says she wants

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

I'll do a bigger response when I've got time but what I can ask right now is why are you taking everything this girl says so literally? it's all bullshit lol
You slept with this girl. You have the power now. It's on you to set the frames and terms that you want. And by doing that you will give her what she REALLY WANTS, not what she says she wants

Thanks, Marcellus. I’ve had some dings and dents to my self-confidence lately, which leave me with little ability to see the situation for what it is.

The last two or three girls I’ve met - out of 30 or so - that I would consider relationship material have not felt the same. Booty call yes. I see the irony.

With this girl I have very little indication that she is really into me enough that I have much leverage.

If you are correct, what would setting the frames and terms look like?

 

[Marcellus]

Ahh self doubt! We've all be there. You're killing it man just keep it up and you're confidence will keep rising.

I can't say what setting the terms and frames would be like because my personality and desires would be different to yours... but I'll try.

First of all how many girls a week are you meeting at the moment? And what do you want with this girl in an ideal world? You can't set the frame if you don't know what frame you want to set

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

I’m meeting up with about a girl a week. Almost all from online. The other few are mostly social circle.

With one daygame pick up in the supermarket. That was fun, although it didn’t go anywhere. I just didn’t find her as sexy as I thought when I got her out on a date.

From limerance girl I want her to fall madly in love with me, and for us to live happily ever after. Not kidding. I know logically it’s unlikely to the verge of impossibility, but short of that to ease into a lovely, mutually supportive, sexy relationship.

 

[topcat]

Not kidding. I know logically it’s unlikely to the verge of impossibility, but short of that to ease into a lovely, mutually supportive, sexy relationship.

Based on your current approach, this is likely impossible.

Then we spent three hours yesterday hiking, deep diving on sharing our dreams, ambitions, vulnerabilities, struggles, etc., i. e. communing on a soul level in nature, and I am now feeling that strange pang of longing again.

This is the key to your ‘limerace problem’. It’s no wonder you can’t get over girls you’ve broken it off with…you hang out with them regularly. Can i ask why you do that? What do you intend to gain by doing that?

Women are happy to accept the value you give them without risking having sex with you. They have zero urgency to make things work with you as you give them what they want (intimacy and companionship) without any ask in their end. You are the easily tamed man (you come pre-tamed) and provide them zero challenge to wrangle you and capture you.

A woman’s fantasy is to wrangle the wild stallion and make him hers.

You throw the saddle on your back, put the bit in your mouth and beg her to ride you. Girls are not interested in that.

“He’ll make a good friend, but surely there’s something wrong with him if he’s so eager to jump into a relationship with me without knowing me”

When you’re eager to jump into a relationship with a girl without vetting her and testing her, she feels robbed of earning the relationship. She feels you are more interested in having a relationship (any relationship) than you are in having a relationship with HER. She feels as though she isn’t that special to you she merely fills a role in your life, one where any girl would do (pretty true given you fall in love with all of them…).

You need to be more of a challenge. AND if you want to get over your “limerance” problem, you need to stop hanging out with girls platonically you’re not fucking.

Your time and attention are too easily won…

 

[topcat]

Read this: https://www.girlschase.com/article/how-women-tame-men-pt-2-tameworthiness

and after reading, consider where you are on the tameability scale, and how that’s affecting your ability to get what you want with girls…

 

[Marcellus]

Well... I don't really need to add much here, @topcat covered this all pretty well!
The only thing ill say is you need to approach more girls, whatever numbers you're doing right now you need to double it

MEET MORE GIRLS, APPROACH MORE, GO ON MORE DATES WITH DIFFERENT GIRLS, VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

Based on your current approach, this is likely impossible.


This is the key to your ‘limerace problem’. It’s no wonder you can’t get over girls you’ve broken it off with…you hang out with them regularly. Can i ask why you do that? What do you intend to gain by doing that?

Women are happy to accept the value you give them without risking having sex with you. They have zero urgency to make things work with you as you give them what they want (intimacy and companionship) without any ask in their end. You are the easily tamed man (you come pre-tamed) and provide them zero challenge to wrangle you and capture you.

A woman’s fantasy is to wrangle the wild stallion and make him hers.

You throw the saddle on your back, put the bit in your mouth and beg her to ride you. Girls are not interested in that.

“He’ll make a good friend, but surely there’s something wrong with him if he’s so eager to jump into a relationship with me without knowing me”

When you’re eager to jump into a relationship with a girl without vetting her and testing her, she feels robbed of earning the relationship. She feels you are more interested in having a relationship (any relationship) than you are in having a relationship with HER. She feels as though she isn’t that special to you she merely fills a role in your life, one where any girl would do (pretty true given you fall in love with all of them…).

You need to be more of a challenge. AND if you want to get over your “limerance” problem, you need to stop hanging out with girls platonically you’re not fucking.

Your time and attention are too easily won…

Thanks @topcat nowhere near what I want to hear, but much closer to what I need to hear. I do feel like I did a poor job of communicating important context however.

I hang out with her because I like her, and she genuinely expressed an interest in maintaining our friendship.

In fact, she got very emotional just after breaking up with me (three months already? shitagaddamn!), describing her loneliness in having left her old life behind and moving to our small town barely a year ago. I know that feeling all too well, from when I moved here a quarter century ago. A few old-timers in town really stepped forward and made me feel at home. It meant the world to me, and I want to extend that grace and kindness to someone who I also feel can add lots of value to our community.

Had she not had that emotional reaction, I would have backed away entirely, as I've done in the dozens of cases when girls broke up with me. In fact, this is the first time for me. I've never before maintained any kind of friendship with a girl who broke it off with me. They come and go in my life, but it's based entirely on them reaching out in the classic booty-call dynamic.

To be clear, I hardly fall in love with all of them. My lifetime lay count is probably high 70s, low 80s, which is not bad considering I've spent 35 years in four relationships. I've only truly been in love seven times. Less than 10 percent of girls I've slept with.

If this particular case makes me a chump, I can live with it. The upside of helping create and sustain a tight-knit community in which people feel invested and involved and helping each out with our creative projects and entrepreneurial ambitions is significant.

As far as the limerance problem ... of the six worst cases in my life, I've converted three into long-term relationships, including one 10-year marriage with two amazing children. So I have a track record of converting these major crushes into majorly crushing on me, too.

The three times I did not convert were very painful and left lasting damage, however. I fear that is what is going on here.

Just to your point about being too easily tamed, my most recent relationship was the best of my life, by far. It began when I was deep into my worst limerance obsession with the ex-ex (with whom I am still messing, we've got history and we know we can reliably scratch each other's itches).

At first I was hardly invested, just going through the motions with her as I dealt with my heartbreak with the other girl. It made her more determined to win me over. It took months, but the scales finally fell from my eyes, and I realized this girl was just as attractive, and way more stable and loving. We had ten years together, mostly very happy.

I'll take your advice as far as not hanging out any longer, unless she initiates and it is done on my terms and timetable. That doesn't mean I won't be her friend, but she will have to be the one reaching out.

P.S. As a big fan of learning human nature through mythology, I was fascinated by Chase's "tamability" take on the Epic of Gilgamesh. Acute insights that passed me by when I read it 40 years or more ago.

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

Well... I don't really need to add much here, @topcat covered this all pretty well!
The only thing ill say is you need to approach more girls, whatever numbers you're doing right now you need to double it

MEET MORE GIRLS, APPROACH MORE, GO ON MORE DATES WITH DIFFERENT GIRLS, VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME

I'm on it! I plan on following the example of fellow journalers @ZenRising, @gameboy @JT Sunshine and getting after it in a more systematic fashion.

 

[topcat]

In fact, she got very emotional just after breaking up with me (three months already? shitagaddamn!), describing her loneliness in having left her old life behind and moving to our small town barely a year ago. I know that feeling all too well, from when I moved here a quarter century ago. A few old-timers in town really stepped forward and made me feel at home. It meant the world to me, and I want to extend that grace and kindness to someone who I also feel can add lots of value to our community.

I hear you, and your view is more valid and measured than i assumed. But based on the above, all a girl needs to do is turn on the waterworks, sweet talk you and suddenly your time belongs to her? despite you not getting what you initially wanted from the deal?

How do you avoid being manipulated or taken for a ride in such a situation? Why does her emotional state even matter in such a situation? What of your emotional state and your time? Couldn’t it be given to some girl more worthy?

If you find out she’s fucking another dude and chasing him for a relationship whilst you play best buds…would you still continue as you are?

Do you ACTUALLY want to be her friend or do you want something more?

if she said today let's go to Vegas and get married, I'd say, what took you so long?

Are you being entirely honest with yourself?

Am I wasting my time? Or based on available evidence, can this be turned around?

…

She made it clear that she didn't want to string me along, but said she wanted to keep a place in my life.

Irrespective of what her intentions might be, this is exactly what you’re allowing her to do…

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

I hear you, and your view is more valid and measured than i assumed. But based on the above, all a girl needs to do is turn on the waterworks, sweet talk you and suddenly your time belongs to her? despite you not getting what you initially wanted from the deal?

How do you avoid being manipulated or taken for a ride in such a situation? Why does her emotional state even matter in such a situation? What of your emotional state and your time? Couldn’t it be given to some girl more worthy?

If you find out she’s fucking another dude and chasing him for a relationship whilst you play best buds…would you still continue as you are?

Do you ACTUALLY want to be her friend or do you want something more?


Are you being entirely honest with yourself?


…


Irrespective of what her intentions might be, this is exactly what you’re allowing her to do…

Appreciate you taking the time to set me straight. Your advice is basically the same as I'd tell anyone else in my position. It's weird how we lose all perspective when it comes to ourselves. I used to be an old war dog when it comes to girls, and yet here I am all discombobulated once again.

Of course I am not being honest with myself. I don't want to be buddies, I want the sweet na-na. I will initiate no more contact, and if and when she does, let her know how it stands.

 

[topcat]

Appreciate you taking the time to set me straight. Your advice is basically the same as I'd tell anyone else in my position. It's weird how we lose all perspective when it comes to ourselves. I used to be an old war dog when it comes to girls, and yet here I am all discombobulated once again.

Of course I am not being honest with myself. I don't want to be buddies, I want the sweet na-na. I will initiate no more contact, and if and when she does, let her know how it stands.

No worries mate

 

[Marcellus]

Such a great community here. People who want the best for us and will give us the harsh truth, whether we want to hear it or not

Casanova.. incredible of you to see those harsh truths and put yourself on the right path. No complaining. No bargaining. No anger. You're gonna do great my man keep me updated if anything further happens with this girl