Certainty and Socrates

[archimedes]

Proceed with caution. I do not recommend my path for many and in fact I'm not sure it's a path you take but ones nature of being.

I've never been that attached to certainty. I guess I'm neurodivergent/ on the spectrum. It makes so many things fit. People tell me I'm conventionally attractive. People who get girls tell me I'm more attractive than them, so it is something in my personality, and I have had some hookups and loves here and there.

In trying to boil down the essence my mind landed on certainty. I have never been that attached to certainty. I do have a bias for action. I admire the ambitious. I guess this might be a differential as to why things don't go forward as much. There is a power and wisdom in not holding too tight to certainty. I think it makes one more precise but it may fail one in the romance department. That doesn't mean I can put things down, put my fit down. When I am certain about something, things come off stronger. Communities are a better place for people to discover this but in pickup or conversation it may make things harder. I try to be pleasing - not in a nice guy way but in an adaptive non autistic way ironically. I really do want to read the room, but I just don't speak like everyone else I guess. I can learn to change and use language as a tool more. If it gets me more blow jobs and I can pull it off, hell yes but trading certainty for clarity can be costly, I think. I think people are hypnotized for all intents and purposes by people who speak with certainty, even if they are in error or even full of shit. That is a hard compromise

Socrates was Socratic and questioning. He was also most people don't think about a Hoplite (soldier), I think in 3 campaigns and also a father and husband. This mattered to me, so maybe he could afford to be uncertain-- then again he did lose his life

I don't know if he was good or bad. He was good if he made people question. He was bad if he harassed people. He was a gadfly in his view. They can be annoying. He could have been a hornet for all we know but the ideal of Socrates I think is great, especially for ethics and clarity but that doesn't mean it's great for everything. Time and place.

I think different people groups and cultures may respond different to these parameters. Russians and Americans may like certainty. Germans and French maybe don't need it as much. Of course it still has its attractive qualifies for everyone. It has pull. I think we can separate out frame as a contextual construct from the certainty if it's delivery - the framing, and the strength of the frame. I can be certain, but I slip and take my eyes off the prize of seduction a lot. I'm not a dork I don't think. I think I'm just too deep and lose the romantic plot and they don't hold it open for me. I operationally undervalue the power of directness, overtness, not being boring etc. I expect too much women to trust that if they found me attractive or intriguing, they will continue to do so, it didn't go away. Object constancy. I'm not trying to mock anyone. I think these are real issues and the lack of faith and trust and attention span and investment.

I didn't plan this to be this long or self focused. Certainty is a powerful dimension I think, in the realm of attraction and can explain a lot of my coming up short over the years.

I am learning about how people bluff and bluster in life. That is most of most people's certainty I think. I play tighter in life and aggressive if I have the hands but the dating game is a lot of Matthew effect and network effect, winner effect and other things. I could use some momentum at last. For all my virtues and growth areas and what I think is knowledge of people, men and women I never was able to build that much momentum, not yet anyway

I didn't mean to make this about myself or a pity party lol. I think it is more just an honest analysis but value certainty of speech and mindset as a way of impressing or magnetizing people in the world. I scored 95% openness on a big five test. I think I'd score similarly low on a need for certainty mindset. Not a need for knowledge or curiosity. I always saw life as complex but build on principles. I never questioned why someone was maybe not attracted to me but I questioned a lot how their attraction changed and changed quickly, sometimes positive but usually negative. That was stranger for me and I think they are on a different timeline, with different norms and so on. I think they'd all love me if they truly got to know me. I think I've been screwed if I'm being honest but it is what it is. I'm not here to be a victim but I think that's the truth and I think I had a few gaps in understanding that game did not necessarily cover and lack of other things but people love certainty. I thought I get it as I grow and become a wise elder and hopefully kind of a patriarch but they like it in the young. Just my thoughts

 

[mirror]

You are suffering. That's clear. I am not in a position to give a lot of wisdom to someone that needs to find his or her own center.
I will try to look through the sentences here and see what I can help with or ask about. Maybe to push you towards some kind of stability. Whether it's the stability you are seeking, or not, is up to you.

Proceed with caution. I do not recommend my path for many and in fact I'm not sure it's a path you take but ones nature of being.

Nice headline/attraction catcher. That said. you are isolating yourself by this line already, that said.
I agree. Nature has this way of overpowering us. The best dance with nature is the one where you allow it to take its own shape and use it to the best of your abilities for yourself and the ones you love.

I've never been that attached to certainty. I guess I'm neurodivergent/ on the spectrum. It makes so many things fit. People tell me I'm conventionally attractive. People who get girls tell me I'm more attractive than them, so it is something in my personality, and I have had some hookups and loves here and there.

Forget about the attraction part, focus on the connection part.
you are attractive. that's cool. that's fine. now what else?

In trying to boil down the essence my mind landed on certainty. I have never been that attached to certainty. I do have a bias for action. I admire the ambitious. I guess this might be a differential as to why things don't go forward as much. There is a power and wisdom in not holding too tight to certainty. I think it makes one more precise but it may fail one in the romance department. That doesn't mean I can put things down, put my fit down. When I am certain about something, things come off stronger.

I admire the ambitious too. That said, ambition has its own place, certainty another. Life is a mix of certain and uncertain happenings. it's about finding a solid balance between them that pays off the most. Exploration vs exploitation.

Communities are a better place for people to discover this but in pickup or conversation it may make things harder. I try to be pleasing - not in a nice guy way but in an adaptive non autistic way ironically. I really do want to read the room, but I just don't speak like everyone else I guess. I can learn to change and use language as a tool more. If it gets me more blow jobs and I can pull it off, hell yes but trading certainty for clarity can be costly, I think. I think people are hypnotized for all intents and purposes by people who speak with certainty, even if they are in error or even full of shit. That is a hard compromise

Yes people love certainty and consistency. that said, they also love mystery and unpredictable rewards. The trick is to find your own way to give and hold back both.

Socrates was Socratic and questioning. He was also most people don't think about a Hoplite (soldier), I think in 3 campaigns and also a father and husband. This mattered to me, so maybe he could afford to be uncertain-- then again he did lose his life

Facing uncertainty is a skill to practice. It gets rusty very quickly and is also personal to be capable of or not. I don't think life events are a way to measure someone's capability to deal with uncertainty.

I don't know if he was good or bad. He was good if he made people question. He was bad if he harassed people. He was a gadfly in his view. They can be annoying. He could have been a hornet for all we know but the ideal of Socrates I think is great, especially for ethics and clarity but that doesn't mean it's great for everything. Time and place.

Time, place and the involved people. Context matters. Calibration matters just as much as preparation and other things.

I think different people groups and cultures may respond different to these parameters. Russians and Americans may like certainty. Germans and French maybe don't need it as much.

Personally, I think that everybody has uncertainty and certainty in his or her life. We all go walk down a road even though we risk getting an accident. The differences are in what areas we allow uncertainty and why?
Is it possible to affect it? Certainly. Does it mean some risks are taken lightly and others more strongly? Definitely.
Culture, upbringing, family circumstances, experiences, personality, nature. It all shapes a person.

Of course it still has its attractive qualifies for everyone. It has pull. I think we can separate out frame as a contextual construct from the certainty if it's delivery - the framing, and the strength of the frame.

There are different ways to put down how certainty and risk work in regards to seduction. Rule #1 is: no fixed rewards. Rule #2 is: high rewards, high loss high gain, Rule #3: rewardpattern. Rule #4 is the spacing of the reward as well as the predictability. Some predictability is needed in the beginning to build up a pattern. Needed is the certainty that at some point a reward will come. If you don't have that, you will quit. You need to know it's up for the future.

I can be certain, but I slip and take my eyes off the prize of seduction a lot.

What is the true price you are chasing? Maybe start with what you consider the price. true value can be found there.

I'm not a dork I don't think.

You hope. but here your weakness shines through. You want to think well of yourself, but you haven't gained the confidence yet to know that you can overcome the not thinking well. hard to explain in full.

I think I'm just too deep and lose the romantic plot

So the romance is not exactly what you are chasing. what is it?

and they don't hold it open for me.

You expect others to hold open a door for you. while you need to show them where the door is and how they can hold on to it and that it's a joy to walk through it together with you.

I operationally undervalue the power of directness, overtness, not being boring etc.

Your whole post shows this =)

I expect too much women to trust that if they found me attractive or intriguing, they will continue to do so, it didn't go away.

Here you forget an important part. maybe that's an autistic trait yes. relationships and people require care and reinforcement / affirmation. If you dont show interest, why would the attraction or intrigue last.

Object constancy. I'm not trying to mock anyone. I think these are real issues and the lack of faith and trust and attention span and investment.

No comment. I think you are very outwardly focused but very little on what you want out of things. hence the romantic plot goes away. you got focused on some hypothetical outsider awareness and goals, and lost yourself and your romance in the outwardly focus.

I didn't plan this to be this long or self focused. Certainty is a powerful dimension I think, in the realm of attraction and can explain a lot of my coming up short over the years.

I agree. Of course I have no clue what you are talking about, who you are and what you want out of things. If you only take one meeting with very little variables, the interaction itself may be uncertain etc but end up being great. But the more variables, contexs, times, places and other things get added to it, the more certainty you and someone else need. The higher the investment, the higher the request and requirement for certainty. You don't want someone to gamble with all of your resources.

I am learning about how people bluff and bluster in life. That is most of most people's certainty I think. I play tighter in life and aggressive if I have the hands but the dating game is a lot of Matthew effect and network effect, winner effect and other things.

Ok. so. people fake confidence. 100% true. Truth is, there is no observed confidence possible if you don't bluster or bluff through a part of it. Now that's certainty to you. What is the dating game even? Is it a numbers game? or what's the goal? a shortterm affair? a long term hookup? a game that wont last or a game that's meant to show the involved people some kind of reward?
Who do you want to play it with? Do the people involved raise the stakes? Or is it just a game like all others that leaves you empty handed at the end?

I could use some momentum at last. For all my virtues and growth areas and what I think is knowledge of people, men and women I never was able to build that much momentum, not yet anyway

What is momentum? what are you building towards? you are trying to aim for an explosion it seems to me, while the real growth has to come from the inside and the connection you manage to build to go up exponentially. But that's just one view. you can also aim for an explosion in momentum, but then you need to work towards it in steps.

I didn't mean to make this about myself or a pity party lol.

Yeah you feel that way, we can see it. newsflash : it is a pity party
just a joke. cheer up, you are human. every human needs a good party once in a while.

I think it is more just an honest analysis

Okay good. Was that what you set out to do, or what it became? If it became that, what do you think caused this need?
I personally believe you needed selfreflection and used this post as a means to come to that point while feeling low in your selfesteem (hence it's public or visible to certain people).

but value certainty of speech and mindset as a way of impressing or magnetizing people in the world.

cant comment.

I scored 95% openness on a big five test.

you are trying to validate yourself here. this shows that you are in doubt of yourself right now and searching for proxies to validate yourself with. That said, wonderful score. I like high on openness a lot.

I think I'd score similarly low on a need for certainty mindset. Not a need for knowledge or curiosity. I always saw life as complex but build on principles.

principles are also a sign of a need for certainty. In this case it's even a need to control outcomes. Certainty knows different faces and attitudes.
I think to know someone you need to learn what gives them certainty in the world.Once you know that, you learn when to give certainty and in what manners to hold back, for them to trust you, want you and grow together with you.

I never questioned why someone was maybe not attracted to me

Okay, so as I see it, you value their attraction as a thing as separate from the interaction you have with them. Is it possible the attraction is a result of an exchange you have with another person, instead of a quality the other person has with you.
Attraction is something you can build. Given that nature is present and willing.

but I questioned a lot how their attraction changed and changed quickly, sometimes positive but usually negative.

This here, is what's keeping you away from the present and building connection and continuous attraction.

That was stranger for me and I think they are on a different timeline, with different norms and so on.

Yep. every person has this. every person at different moments has different needs and timelines. when you are with them, you both need to calibrate to one another to prevent disasters from happening.

I think they'd all love me if they truly got to know me.

Look. Is the goal for others to love you? or is the goal to build something reciprocal with them?
There is a difference. Do you even love them?

I think I've been screwed if I'm being honest but it is what it is.

Don't know. you are overselling and underselling and high and low value in this whole post. Try to refocus on calibrating and connecting.

I'm not here to be a victim but I think that's the truth and I think I had a few gaps in understanding that game did not necessarily cover and lack of other things

Yeah this forum just covers small parts of seduction. it fails to address quite some deeper inner and advanced game topics if you ask me.

but people love certainty.

If they love certainty, what is it that offers certainty?

I thought I get it as I grow and become a wise elder and hopefully kind of a patriarch but they like it in the young.

you cant substitute experiences you need to build up together for a frame/stereotype.

Just my thoughts

you are selfprotecting with these last words. take it from someone that knows dont avoid being vulnerable.