Chase and Franco - What makes a guy high status? How does it even work?

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I've often heard some game experts throw around the importance of "status" in regards to attracting women, especially the better looking ones. Now based on my recent posts on here, you guys know I am well aware as to how it worked in the school days but I want to move forward from that and look to the adult world. I pull women from cold approach and occasionally from online dating, that is all great. The women are decent looking, mostly all of them above average, but I've only pulled a hot girl (in the 9 or 10 range) once.

I often wonder this though, how does "status" even work once you're older and no longer in the kind of closed environment that school gave you. Some say that "adults" tend to "grow up" and not care about any of that stuff which makes me ask, is status only something you should care about once you're in a school setting?

Are you supposed to mix in with the right crowds that attract a lot of beautiful women and somehow get them to accept you?

Can some explain status to me in regards to women and attraction?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Oh P,

Just make society and that includes women, think that you are "that". No expert will admit this unless it's here, but here's what happen.

1)Expert never tell

2)Young brash guy points out like 'emperor has no clothes' which no one hears or society are too blind, because they focus on "value"

3)The intermediate, who doubts himself, blips between two worlds.

4)Women who blips between two worlds.

You are definitely number 3. It's a stage vs skill thing. the analogy where a person who is a billionaire is oblivious to people on the ground, while a young man is skill but unaware of his surroundings.

to tell you honestly, this lesson might go into your head either a week or perhaps many years later. i don't know why but Chase noted this phenomenon. Sometimes we only learn things many years later.

Zac

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Speaking of head, your post left me scratching mines lol!

 

[Franco]

Oh Pry,

Status only matters within the context of what a person (or persons) has seen or knows about you. This is why cold approach is so effective: your "status" to her is only determined by what she can assume based on the given interaction. If you have very strong fundamentals (clothes, eye contact, sexy smile, etc.), then she's going to gather that your status is "high" because your confidence and your ability to generate attraction reflect that.

Note how this changes whenever you enter a night club, for example. Once you're in a night club, your status has now become relative to every other guy in the night club, and every action you take (as well as how you dress, how you move, how you interact with others) gives her more information for her to work with to attempt to determine what your "status" actually might be. That's why the PUA community has things such as "DMV" (or Demonstrating High Value) to attempt to pump up your status around women to generate attraction. However, many of the ways communities think you should use DMV is a bit overblown -- sometimes effortlessness (when used correctly) demonstrates higher value than the guy who is exerting a lot of effort because it is apparent to the women around him that he is exerting effort to impress them (which indicates lower value than guys who don't need to try too hard to impress).

If you want to become high status among a group of other men, then you actually have to become higher status than them in ways that either they recognize or women recognize (or both if you're attempting to appear high status among both male and female peers). There's not really any shortcuts here; you have to learn to garner the respect of the guys you want to become "high status" with as well as find ways to demonstrate that value around women (if you want them to desire you). This is something I've developed naturally as I've always been around large social circles (and different varieties as well), so I've learned to navigate the terrain when it comes to presenting my value while still providing value in exchange, whether that's in the form of making other people laugh or making them agree with what I'm saying (as just two examples).

If you're mostly a loner and haven't spent most of your life operating within social circles, then learning to become high status is going to take awhile. You need to learn to empathize with other individuals and see things through their eyes, then provide good emotions to them in whatever form is most comfortable to you. People need to feel like you "get" them, and then they come to respect you more.

The most important thing to understand here is that "high status" is not some universal term -- you don't become "high status" and remain that way wherever you go. You only become higher status once you've built up your status within a given social circle, but once you move to another social circle where nothing is known about you, you need to repeat the entire process within that context.

Status is contextual. Cold approach is effective because the context is minimal: a girl knows nothing about you, so you have the opportunity to present yourself as extremely valuable and desirable without worrying about others attempting to disrupt that presented value. In a larger social environment though, your status is influenced by multiple variables and the collective opinion of others, so your goal is to understand what other people value, attempt to present that value to them in a form that you prefer, and then repeat the process with as many other individuals in that social circle as deemed necessary. Once the collective opinion of the social circle is that "you're a really cool dude that I like to be around," then you've effectively demonstrated yourself as "high status" within that group.

NOTE: I believe this is what Zac was getting at in his original statement:

Just make society and that includes women, think that you are "that".

- Franco

 

[trashKENNUT]

Oh P,

I just tell you the answer, it flies over your head but nevermind, we all do that. We do learn things many years later. We might get this in words but sometimes it just doesn't register until many years later.

Social circles is lame like really after some time. Your tolerance level will drop but i do need to learn. However, Sucking your own dick is more fun. -,-.

People might go to my Facebook and say Zac is more "quiet" now. But look at my albums really. Social circles is like listening to your children's bullshit, which perhaps you should ask for high investment. Basically, a social circle is a company in my eyes.

If you are aware and let me tell you, most people don't even know what "value" is. It's like an autoresponder. It's a moving online shop. I do agree if you want certain girls, you have to spend time around it and likewise, you give a free bait, which means spend time there, then clean up the girls and then they bitch about how "Jesus" was bad to them when really it's just the game.

p.s: i am annoyed but sometimes the games people play are that. So yea, sucking your own dick is fun. -.-

Zac

 

[Big Daddy]

Franco,

If you want to become high status among a group of other men, then you actually have to become higher status than them in ways that either they recognize or women recognize (or both if you're attempting to appear high status among both male and female peers). There's not really any shortcuts here; you have to learn to garner the respect of the guys you want to become "high status" with as well as find ways to demonstrate that value around women (if you want them to desire you). This is something I've developed naturally as I've always been around large social circles (and different varieties as well), so I've learned to navigate the terrain when it comes to presenting my value while still providing value in exchange, whether that's in the form of making other people laugh or making them agree with what I'm saying (as just two examples).

If you're mostly a loner and haven't spent most of your life operating within social circles, then learning to become high status is going to take awhile. You need to learn to empathize with other individuals and see things through their eyes, then provide good emotions to them in whatever form is most comfortable to you. People need to feel like you "get" them, and then they come to respect you more.

I've been reading your posts for quite a while trying to figure out a process to start being more proficient in social circle as I really like the approach you take in the subject.

But while I grasp the gist of it, I still can't quite figure out a way of consistently "provide value" (this has been repeated so much in the last 10 years that it almost has an ethereal meaning by now) to a group of people that I'd like to be considered high-status in.

Could you give a (possibly real) example on how you went about achieving such status in a group where you had little leverage (e.g. nobody quite knew you) that in the beginning but succeeded in being part of that group? As in, how do you get in touch with that group, how do you get to be long enough around them to figure out what you can provide if you have little to offer in the first place, etc.

 

[Franco]

BD,

Could you give a (possibly real) example on how you went about achieving such status in a group where you had little leverage (e.g. nobody quite knew you) that in the beginning but succeeded in being part of that group? As in, how do you get in touch with that group, how do you get to be long enough around them to figure out what you can provide if you have little to offer in the first place, etc.

That's not really an easy question for a couple of reasons: (1) there's rarely any "one" action that suddenly catapults you to the top of a social group and (2) there are so many ways to provide value that the skill itself isn't about knowing "here are the five ways to provide value," but rather knowing how to identify where OTHER individuals see value and then you yourself being able to provide it.

In my earlier post I mentioned "jokes" because making a big group of people laugh is one of the most common ways to provide value to a group. Almost everyone gets value out of laughing (because it provides good emotions), so being able to make a group of people laugh in unexpected situations brings good emotions to them, which makes them more likely to want to keep you around. Once people begin desiring your company regularly, it's a good sign that you've moved up the social ladder in that group because now THEY are seeking out YOU to hang out with THEM.

There are really endless ways to provide value to a group of people, but if you can identify specific areas that the group seems to hold in high regard, then you narrow down some of the ways that you can successfully provide value to a specific social group. For example, you might be new to a social group of guys who talk about picking up women and sleeping with hot ones, and you can tell they hold the ability to sleep with hot women in high regard. You might pick up on this and mention a thing or two during conversation (possibly something funny!) to add some value. But if you REALLY want to add some immediate value to that group, maybe you can approach a girl that they are discussing in the nearby vicinity. If they are guys that are generally afraid to approach women (or at least are afraid to approach when completely sober), then just you approaching the woman completely sober is going to drive them crazy because of your sudden bravado and fearlessness. Even if the interaction doesn't go well, if you laugh it off, smile, and come back to the group (as if it was no big deal to you), the guys might still find the whole situation not only awesome but also hilarious. You've suddenly provided value to an area that a social group holds in high regard.

So, with this in mind, the best way to put yourself in a position to provide value to a social group is to have a very broad base of knowledge in many different areas and also a broad base of skills in many different areas. The more adaptable you are to any situation, the more ready you will be to provide value in a specific area once you identify where the group places most of its value. Becoming a guy who can make people laugh is almost a universal "in" to any social group because, generally, almost everyone enjoys being around people who can regularly provide good emotions. Keep in mind that being funny, however, has its nuances well. While some individuals might really enjoy dry sarcasm as a form of humor, other individuals might prefer dirty "potty" humor instead. Identifying which types of humor the social group seems to find the most funny is also part of the nuance to becoming a universally funny guy.

Hopefully this makes sense. This requires a bit of confidence in yourself because you'll need to take "risks" when providing value to a given group because you may overestimate the value of a given action at any point, but if you never take any risks, then you'll never make any progress -- kinda sounds like the world of cold approach, right?

- Franco

 

[Drck]

In addition to the above, some examples:

IMO Many guys just want to take easy way out. But consider these, especially young guys:

* Put on some muscles. Your status will rise above other men because now you are stronger and muscular, you have more testosterone, and you appear healthier. If you are ripped, great. But being ripped is is not visible. At the same time, there are not that many muscular guys around, so right there, you are increasing substantially your status, anywhere you go everybody can SEE that you are stronger than most men...

* Get solid and worthy degree. Science. Math. Law. Healthcare... This will raise your status as well. Not too many people can do it, they just want to get through the couple of years, have fun, and that is it. That is wrong. Think long term, college is only 4 years, but you might be around till 90 years old, if not more.... you might have productive life till 60-70 years old... 4 years of hard studying might well worth it. 3 years of law, or extra 2 years on master degree might truly jack up your value. It is not just degree, you will get to known highly motivated and intelligent people, you will expand your social circle, you will raise to the "top" of societal ladder. You will open the door for your future career.... Guess what, if this is a news for anybody: quality women are not searching for mates in the bars or wild parties. Quality girls want the best of the best, they want to date engineers, lawyers, doctors, scientists... and if you are one of these, plus you have great fundamentals and decent social circle, you are true high value man. No need to fake it anywhere you go... But, but, I am not smart enough, you say... Yes you are! You are just lazy, you are only looking for easy way out...

* Similarly (reading some recent comments here), be very careful who you associate yourself with... It doesn't matter what your color is, what background you are from... Most people don't care. What people care about how you behave, who you hang out with, whether you care about life as such... So get better job, regardless of your education. Get better car, don't drive 15 year old beat up Honda, lease something new for $200 per month. Get nicer clothes. Upgrade your apartment, don't live in the cheapest place... Cut down your friendships with thugs, low lives, drug-addicts.... Cut them out, they drag you down, you can't save them... Stop feeling sorry for yourself, life is not fair. Life will never be fair get used to it. You can rise above your environment, you can create better life for yourself, regardless where you come from...

* Money is good, don't believe people who tell you otherwise. Focus on getting more money through job and career... Focus on investing, focus on saving... When you meet quality girl, she will want to know what you do, who your friends are, whether you can take good care of the family. Don't give her a reason to dump you just because you have no clue about finances or because you hang around your thug friends... Hang around smart people instead...



If you want to be high value man, you have to behave like one, you have to live like one, not just pretending...

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

^ That is bullshit.

Most doctors, engineers, and scientists have awful love lives. If you want a trophy wife or a gold digger, then sure, go that way but most attractive women do not value education or brains. A lot of hot girls who do settle for engineers and nerds are the same girls who were getting fucked hard by studs and losers before they decided to settle down.

Now you should get a good education anyways if you want to better your future but don't rely on your degree to get you anything other than a gold digging whore looking for a free meal ticket. Most of the "educated" guys have plain jane wives anyways, attractive women are marrying exciting men who have status in places like nightlife, entertainment industry, and the fashion industry.

I work in finance and I know of countless guys educated at the world's finest universities, they do not get laid that much and most of the girls they date are average.

The hottest girls are not running in the educated social circles, you must be from an Asian or conservative country to think that way and you'd be wrong if you think that applies to America. Now I did say get a good education and get your career on track but don't expect that to do you any favors with attractive women, I wouldn't even tell them I work a prestigious job or make a certain amount of cash, that is a gold digger magnet.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I'll add to this thread something I have noticed over time.

It seems like guys who hold power in circles that naturally attract a lot of women tend to have this sort of a status. You can work as an engineer and be respected in the workplace that is mostly male but you won't attract hot girls because you're not a part of their world. Compare that to a guy who holds some status in the fashion industry, modeling industry, or entertainment industry; he is going to be swimming in attractive women.

I think that's what status is but it varies too, a lot of it depends on where you end up living after college too. I am in NYC and the guys living in Murray Hill are having much more fun with women than the guys living in Long Island.

At this stage I think money which can grant you access to cool neighborhoods coupled in with tight fundamentals that can help you fit in with those crowds helps immensely.

 

[Drck]

Oh Pry: ^ That is bullshit. Most doctors, engineers, and scientists have awful love lives. If you want a trophy wife or a gold digger, then sure, go that way but most attractive women do not value education or brains. A lot of hot girls who do settle for engineers and nerds are the same girls who were getting fucked hard by studs and losers before they decided to settle down.

>>>> It makes me wonder how much thoughts did you put into your answer... "Most doctors, engineers,..." ... Well, most guys are so called Beta Guys too, including doctors, lawyers, engineers... But we are not talking about most guys, we are talking about small group of guys here on GC, that want to be good with women and increase their value.... In other words, if you learn some seduction, if you develop good fundamentals and so forth while having some higher degree, you will jack up your Value tremendously...

Don't forget that most guys who are lawyers and doctors are not necessary dummies, and they are not nerds either... there is lots of guys with great degrees quite successful with women.... At the same time, not every guy who is engineer, lawyer or doctor is necessary looking to settle down for a marriage with plain/average girl, if that makes sense...

As far as women, IF they are smart - and many are - they actually prefer to hang out around guys who have money and classical "success", whatever it means... Smart women know their value. Some will sleep with losers, others not. Others may actually study hard by themselves, perhaps just to get to higher circles... Many women are also from (let's call it) good background - good family background, great social circle, great access to finances (through family), even good religious believes.... Such woman wouldn't really gain anything to sleep with losers, because believe it or not - amongst the upper class there is also lots of great, attractive and sexy guys...

Never mind that you can always downgrade your profession to be a loser....

Gold diggers? Trophy wife's you say? True, they too exist. But again, just because some girls prefer engineers or lawyers to losers, it doesn't necessary mean that all are gold digger...

... She left a loser just to settle for engineer, LOL! That is a good one...

 

[Lotus]

It seems like there has been some confusion between "high status" and "high quality".

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

We're debating traditional LTRs versus getting laid a lot.

The engineer or doctor might get to marry a beautiful woman due to his status but that is all he will really get to do, because he will hardly have time for much else.

If we are talking about the traditional marriage and starting a family route, Drck is right but if we're talking about just getting laid a lot, he is not.

 

[Drck]

You guys are so serious.... quality or status... we are just guys, men.... girls are just girls, women...

It's always much easier to downgrade than to upgrade your value, it's not that difficult to exclude yourself out of LTR material...

 

[Big Daddy]

Franco,

(1) there's rarely any "one" action that suddenly catapults you to the top of a social group and (2) there are so many ways to provide value that the skill itself isn't about knowing "here are the five ways to provide value," but rather knowing how to identify where OTHER individuals see value and then you yourself being able to provide it.

Yeah, I may have worded poorly, but I meant a process to put up in place in order to consistently do it (essentially, your point #2 here).

I ask because think I have two main problems: (1) getting the first touch with a group I want to be part of and (2) reaching the right individuals in a said group to be a consistent part of it. I'll give you a real example to make things easier to picture.

I have this group of friends that meet once a month, in which there's this hot girl. She doesn't go on every meet, only on "higher-value" ones (e.g. special occasions, people XYZ are going, etc). But her "main group" is full of hot girls that... I wouldn't mind hanging with, let's just say. Thing is, even though I have a "bridge" with this girl, we never really "click" when we happen to meet in person (even though I try) and I have absolutely no way of knowing how to reach her group of hot friends.

A second example would be the popular people from high school. Trickier because contact is limited now that everyone is separated, but they party a lot when everyone goes back home. Problems (1) and (2) again here: even though we have something in common, I wouldn't know how to reach them in the first place, and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to be a consisted part of the group (e.g. be invited to trips, parties, get-togethers, etc).

I think I can provide great value to groups in which my position is cemented. But in groups that I'm 1 out of 50 (a third real scenario) and nobody knows me or groups that I don't have a solid bridge with, I have no idea how to (1) break in (2) be highly desired there.

I understand that a great part of what you said depends on being able to provide value in the first place (development as a person) and I'll work on that, but that said, do you have any pointers on how to address these two points here?

 

[Franco]

BD,

I understand that a great part of what you said depends on being able to provide value in the first place (development as a person) and I'll work on that, but that said, do you have any pointers on how to address these two points here?

I had to think about my own personal social life to kind of reflect on how this works for me. By doing that, I can mention that I think there is a good trick to streamlining a process for points 1 and 2.

I think your first goal should be to find a few good friends (preferably males) in a social group who you consider to be reliably high-status/social guys. By this I mean, find at least two to three "friends" as a normal group of guys that you can hang out with first who are (1) extremely sociable and (2) comfortable being around women (whether that be making the girls laugh often or flirt often). Once you have a "core" group of friends that you would feel comfortable going anywhere with, you can go to social events WITH your core group of friends. It's much easier to merge into other social groups when you have your own group that you can play off of (and feel comfortable around) to project your value to other groups.

When I often engage myself in social events, I find myself going along with some of my close friends that I play off of really well. Even when I haven't broken the ice with other people, I'm usually joking and engaging with my close friends in relevant jokes/discussions, and that's an easy way for the other groups to recognize your value -- and it opens the door to engaging with them as well.

This, of course, is easier said than done. Sometimes it takes awhile to find a really good group of friends that you feel comfortable going out with all the time. Sometimes if they are too different from you, then you won't really feel as comfortable bringing them along to meet other groups of people that you wish to engage with.

So, to summarize, in the meantime it might be worth finding individuals like yourself that you can roll out to social events with on a regular basis. Find a core group of friends who mirror many of your values, and bring them out to social events so that you don't find yourself ever "standing alone in the corner," so to speak.

- Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

Ha, I was reading the whole thing nodding because it already gave me some ideas to put to work.

Thanks!