Chase's: Angry cynical girl(friend) type

[girlsfollow]

Just reading chases post, had to comment on it - it is BRILLIANT:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-m ... d-out-here

I just thought I'd add that this can happen WITHIN a relationship too - I think it might have something to do with how much sex she's had (even if its not with different partners - in the case of a 2.5 year relationship you essentially change so much you have been the equivalent of quite a few partners i would say!). Of course its not just down to this, there were plenty of other things which pushed her towards this but this may have been one of them.

Anyway I realise now that my ex started off as a picture perfect "3 to 7 Partners: Curious / Inquisitive" and moved onto "8 to 19 Partners: Angry / Cynical Girls" at the end

Facinating how your 3-7 points describe her at the start and these describe her exactly towards the end, every single point!

Very cautious and often love/hate emotional attachment to you
May fall in love quickly, but will fight it the whole way
Uses lots of drama and complaining to browbeat her partner
Suspects you of things, and nothing can tell her otherwise
Doesn't believe a thing you tell her
Is angry, frustrated, cynical, or grouchy much of the time
Sometimes tries to control herself, other times lets go with reckless abandon
Sex is hedonistic and she has a love/hate relationship with this, too
Has a few sexual inhibitions and some sexual preferences
She resents that sex and love are not the same thing

and - when a girl is like this expect this (althogh she didn't cheat but its the mindset!):

Angry / cynical girls are more likely to stray from their partners than the two earlier, less experienced women, and while they'll feel guilt as well, they'll typically manifest it as blame instead of guilt. Rather than thinking, "I did something horrible to my man by cheating on him," they'll think, "It's my MAN's fault that I was driven to cheat! I'm INNOCENT! HE was failing to meet my needs."

Can hope there might be a way to get her out of that mindset without having to have 20.....since she's actually still a 3-7 - there might be some salvage possible?

Interesting you say: "relationship baggage will eat you alive." I can totally see this happening with any guy that tries it with her and might explain why from what I've been told she might be cycling through short/mid term relationships - I bet there is something that can be done here.

 

[Chase]

GF-

Can hope there might be a way to get her out of that mindset without having to have 20.....since she's actually still a 3-7 - there might be some salvage possible?

Interesting you say: "relationship baggage will eat you alive." I can totally see this happening with any guy that tries it with her and might explain why from what I've been told she might be cycling through short/mid term relationships - I bet there is something that can be done here.

First, a note - you cannot change people. Even if they're going through changes themselves - you can no more reroute someone else's change process than someone else could yours. People simply are who they are and do what they do. You can accept them and be happy with them, or wish/try to change them and be miserable, or accept that you cannot accept them and accept that you cannot change them and then move on to someone else who's more what you're looking for.

The girl in the angry / cynical stage is effectively cycling through the Kübler-Ross model - the 5 stages of grief. The "loss" she's grieving over is her "innocence" - her belief in fairytale endings, perfect romances, Mr. Right, everlasting marital bliss, the purity of romance, and whatnot. You can't wrestle her back into being a girl one of the earlier stages because you simply can't pull the wool back over her eyes once it's off. The only thing you can possibly hope to try and do is work with her to understand men, women, and dating better, and perhaps speed up her acceptance process. I've met girls in the low teens of partners who were at acceptance, although it's very rare - she has to be incredibly mature and very, very rational. Most women need a certain number of partners just to go through the stages:

• Denial - when they think, "No, no... men CAN'T be like this. Relationships CAN'T work this way. It's supposed to be THIS way! It HAS to be!"
• Anger - where she's mad at the world for selling her a pipe dream and mad that she can't have the thing she's wanted all her life
• Bargaining - when she starts thinking, "Okay, maybe if I just sleep with enough guys, I'll find Mr. Right by accident! It worked on Sex and the City, after all!"
• Depression - when she gets down on men and dating, and thinks maybe she shouldn't even bother wasting her time on this
• Acceptance - when she moves into the final category of women - the confident / self-assured

Again, you can try and speed up her progression through the stages, but you usually won't be able to, and you'll just get sucked into a whirlwind of bitterness and spite and get made the prime target of it. When a girl's like this, it's generally better to steer clear of her for a while. If YOU put her there (by really crushing her dreams when she thought and believed you were The One and you failed to disabuse her of that notion), then you do have some responsibility to try and make sure she understands you always cared about her and never meant to hurt her, but even then, there's usually very little you can do - she just has to go through the process. Every woman goes through it at some point, except the women who marry young before they have many partners, and stay with their husbands for life and never divorce or stray.

Chase

 

[girlsfollow]

If YOU put her there (by really crushing her dreams when she thought and believed you were The One and you failed to disabuse her of that notion), then you do have some responsibility to try and make sure she understands you always cared about her and never meant to hurt her,

YES I did, the very opposite of intentionally of course - I think this is why I am still so concerned about her even after so long - this is exactly what happened - she said it to me and others repeatedly - in fact the reason she gave for not seeing me when we had planned to was "you damaged me too much psychologically" (obviously that's partially blame rationalisation - it was certainly not one sided- but still).

Last time I tried to broach the subject with her though she just got vicious and very defensive and I found the best way to make her feel better at first was to act like nothing had happened (resulting in sex). I'm not sure how to re-open communication with her though now she's in this cycling guys stage - I think she doesn't want to be in contact with me because she knows it could jeopardise her current relationships and she can't be sure I've changed as much as I have.

 

[Chase]

GF-

YES - I think this is why I am still so concerned about her even after so long - this is exactly what happened - she said it to me and others repeatedly - in fact the reason she gave for not seeing me when we had planned to was "you damaged me too much psychologically" (obviously that's partially blame rationalisation - it was certainly not one sided- but still).

Last time I tried to broach the subject with her though she just got vicious and very defensive and I found the best way to make her feel better at first was to act like nothing had happened (resulting in sex). I'm not sure how to re-open communication with her though now she's in this cycling guys stage - I think she doesn't want to be in contact with me because she knows it could jeopardise her current relationships and she can't be sure I've changed as much as I have.

I've tried undoing that damage with past girlfriends and I haven't been able to. I've taken them back for "healing periods" and all kinds of stuff, but they just get right back on the hookup merry-go-round once we're not together anymore.

Anyway, I've made my peace with it. The best thing you can do is try to reduce expectations from the beginning - tell her you're not long-term material, tell her girls always get hurt with you even though you try not to let them, tell her you don't want her putting too many of her hopes or dreams on you because you're just afraid you'll shatter them. This only makes you sound like even more of the traditional flawed Byronic hero that women naturally want to "save" - you're the bad boy with a good heart, the guy who keeps breaking women's hearts and knows it and doesn't WANT to, so he even warns women off of him, but in the end the cycle just keeps repeating itself. At the same time, you are telling her what to expect, which helps some if and when you end up splitting apart.

But when you're an attractive, powerful guy that women get attached to, there's no much you can do other than try to reduce their investment levels in you while the two of you are together, and try to make the breakup as sad and gentle as possible.

And then trust that, once she's gotten it out of her system and moved through the ranks with men, she'll find peace at some point too, and will usually end up with a good guy who can give her the kind of relationship she wants and deserves.

Yet, she'll always have a special place for you in her heart...

Chase

 

[girlsfollow]

GF-
I've tried undoing that damage with past girlfriends and I haven't been able to. I've taken them back for "healing periods" and all kinds of stuff, but they just get right back on the hookup merry-go-round once we're not together anymore.

Anyway, I've made my peace with it. The best thing you can do is try to reduce expectations from the beginning - tell her you're not long-term material, tell her girls always get hurt with you even though you try not to let them, tell her you don't want her putting too many of her hopes or dreams on you because you're just afraid you'll shatter them. This only makes you sound like even more of the traditional flawed Byronic hero that women naturally want to "save" - you're the bad boy with a good heart, the guy who keeps breaking women's hearts and knows it and doesn't WANT to, so he even warns women off of him, but in the end the cycle just keeps repeating itself. At the same time, you are telling her what to expect, which helps some if and when you end up splitting apart.

But when you're an attractive, powerful guy that women get attached to, there's no much you can do other than try to reduce their investment levels in you while the two of you are together, and try to make the breakup as sad and gentle as possible.

And then trust that, once she's gotten it out of her system and moved through the ranks with men, she'll find peace at some point too, and will usually end up with a good guy who can give her the kind of relationship she wants and deserves.

Yet, she'll always have a special place for you in her heart...

Chase

Just stumbled across this - think this video sums up how girls feel when moving into the angry cynical stage in a slightly soppy mainstream way ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... 0BWlvnBmIE

but as it shows - girls dont have much issue moving on pretty quickly - I think its their ability to get so angry that lets them at least consciously erase any care that they had for that person, basically treat them like they are strangers (although I think as you say there is always something left there - like my ex once broke down in tears apologising out of the blue - despite the hard brutish exterior she had been showing, I think its all a bit of a show) - I think guys are a little more rational and continue to care at least a little.

I'm finding it difficult to re-open communication with her - I would like to try and heal things between us - I have known her and her family for more than a decade and I can't leave things like this - especially if the last real thing she said to me was that I harmed her! I want to get things to at least being civil between us again.... its been more than a month now since she ignored my first text in 3 months - you think there is a way I can re-open communication?

 

[Chase]

GF-

but as it shows - girls dont have much issue moving on pretty quickly - I think its their ability to get so angry that lets them at least consciously erase any care that they had for that person, basically treat them like they are strangers (although I think as you say there is always something left there - like my ex once broke down in tears apologising out of the blue - despite the hard brutish exterior she had been showing, I think its all a bit of a show) - I think guys are a little more rational and continue to care at least a little.

Agreed. It's an evolved defense mechanism that protects their time and reproductive capacity. It makes evolutionary sense for a woman to sever ties and move on quick with a man who can't provide for her and/or get her pregnant. Conversely, it makes more sense for men to never move on - you never know when you might be able to sire an extra kid with that ex-girlfriend you broke up with 4 years ago. The research supports this - men are found to be more romantic than women are, fall in love faster, and remain in love longer following a breakup.

I'm finding it difficult to re-open communication with her - I would like to try and heal things between us - I have known her and her family for more than a decade and I can't leave things like this - especially if the last real thing she said to me was that I harmed her! I want to get things to at least being civil between us again.... its been more than a month now since she ignored my first text in 3 months - you think there is a way I can re-open communication?

Texting's not ideal for reinitiating contact if emotions are anything other than neutral or slightly positive. If emotions are raw / tender / angry, you need something more personal - a phone call, or a long email stating your case (but not in a defensive way... in an "I understand what you're going through, I totally regret it, and I'll always be a friend for you if you ever need me" tragic farewell letter way that ideally leaves her crying and wanting to shout out, "Wait! Don't go!").

Sometimes the only thing that will do it is the passage of time, though... enough time goes by, and you learn to see almost anyone in your life through rose-colored glasses, even those people you once hated.

Chase