Co-Opting Nice Guy Habits to Hook Girls Harder

[Howell]

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Hypothesis:

To get girls strongly attached to him emotionally, a skillful seducer could co-opt certain habits of the nice guy and couple them to a super bad-boy image to create maximum contrast. This is how I imagine the optimal default distribution would look:

• -20% of the time act like a super edgy, asshole-ish, polarizing bad boy.
  
  -20% Extremely lovable and doting nice guy.
  
  -60% Somewhere in between.

I imagine that the emotional experience a man able to pull this off could offer a girl would be pretty much unparalleled.

I also imagine that the more lovable and doting he becomes on the one side, the edgier and more dominant he can be on the other.

As the relationship develops he can modify the breadth and distribution of his nice guy/bad boy behavior to meet individual girls' emotional needs.

Expanding your persona to include such a wide spectrum of possible behavior basically guarantees that you're one of the most unpredictable and satisfying guys she's been involved with.

If you're with a girl who is growing detached or seems to want a more dynamic roller-coaster of emotions, modifying your behavior to match the distribution I mentioned above could be how you give it to her.

-Howell

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[mb1]

This sounds awesome Howell.

Do you have any example of the nice guy behaviour that won't shoot you in the foot?

You caught my attention cause I tend to do this (though am inexperienced so the lovey stuff is in trial), coming from a too-nice background and working to prioritize myself, which results in extreme behaviour on the road to being a genuine man.

Some various things I love:
1. Tying up her wrists and ankles, blindfolding her, and sticking my dick in her mouth
2. Going on picnics or to watch meteor showers
3. Doggie style in public bathrooms
4. Cuddling and stroking hair
5. Pulling hair and slapping ass
6. Opening doors
7. Making her open the door and slapping ass
8. Romantic loving language
9. Making her call me Daddy
10. Making her say I love you while she's coming
11. Very personal thoughtful gifts that make her think of you
12. Dates where she doesn't know where we're going
13. Fucking in fields (see #2 and #12)
14. Dressing really nice and going to dim places
15. Sitting next to her rather than across (touching her thigh)
16. Massages
17. Fucking after she's relaxed from the massage
18. Empathizing with her feelings after a shitty work day
19. Not letting her bitch about her work day
20. Spinning her around three times to change her feelings
21. Mirroring her interest (minus a bit) and being different every day

Basically loving her like a daughter plus not putting up with a single drop of disrespectful behaviour

Word of warning: https://youtu.be/xR0CyCMQx-0

 

[Howell]

Nice list mb1. I think you pretty much get what I'm trying to say.

By nice guy behavior I don't mean doing baby talk or being needy 20% of the time. What I mean by nice guy is just being a nice guy:

• -Giving them a freely given gift for no specific reason
  
  -Playfully joking around without an agenda
  
  -Surprising them with a sex fantasy scenario you know they want to try
  
  -Spontaneous dancing
  
  -Taking her to the shooting range with you and teaching her to shoot an AK accurately
  
  -Etc.

I think a date template that encapsulates this model well is one that is ambiguous and could be used by nice guys, but then transform into something completely on the other side of the spectrum. This way she has a reference point to compare you to the non-dominant men of her past, and also you blow past her expectations for the date.

So you go meet up at Starbucks, but throughout it you're very sexual and then you fuck her in the bathroom. Or you set up a dinner date, but the place you arranged to go was closed, so you go for a walk and fuck her in a back alley instead. That's the kind of stuff I'm thinking of here; the kind of social transgressions that women love to read in their romance novels.

Howell

P.S. Also note that I posted this in advanced, because it's focused on guys who may have taken on the edgy bad boy persona so far that they have attainability problems. Guys who still largely face nice guy problems (moving too slow, not polarizing enough, running out of things to say, girls getting bored, mediocre sex, etc.) will probably not benefit very much from what I'm talking about here.

 

[mb1]

Sweet, I'm liking the thought behind it, especially the date template idea of starting from that reference point and shattering it.

 

[Rage]

P.S. Also note that I posted this in advanced, because it's focused on guys who may have taken on the edgy bad boy persona so far that they have attainability problems. Guys who still largely face nice guy problems (moving too slow, not polarizing enough, running out of things to say, girls getting bored, mediocre sex, etc.) will probably not benefit very much from what I'm talking about here.

great disclaimer; and neat thread howell.

i like mb1's list

I kind of think too that being like a little boy for that 20% you talk about also falls into this.

I like having that little bit cause it suits my natural personality. Being like a little boy/being like a kid like poking his little sister.

Girls like a guy that’s part masculine man, part little kid who never grew up (or so I hear).

         -Dunking your head in a girls lap when  she’s sitting down and lying down like that and talking to her from that position with her clothed pussy in your face
         -Pantsing (how do you spell that) a girl when she’s wearing yoga pants and then slapping her a bit and laughing and running off
         -Play fighting
         -Laying on her lap and eating food, like a little kid (and doing this for a bit and watching a movie or something)
         -Playing with your own hair or doing skin care with her like facials and shit
         -Scooping her boob and laughing
         -Doing that fake hand shake thing where you fake it and then brush your hair with your hand instead cause you’re too cool to shake hands

Again would never do this stuff if I’m not fucking, and wont if I don’t propose it or want to do it (i.e. if she wants to do it/proposes it I’m probably less receptive and not down). But some acting like a little boy I think falls into the 20% category you describe.

Maybe it even ends up being like a mother little son type of dynamic, polar to the dad and little girl dynamic that mb1 talks about. Fuck, mind blown.

What do you guys think?

Gem

 

 

[Howell]

P.S. Also note that I posted this in advanced, because it's focused on guys who may have taken on the edgy bad boy persona so far that they have attainability problems. Guys who still largely face nice guy problems (moving too slow, not polarizing enough, running out of things to say, girls getting bored, mediocre sex, etc.) will probably not benefit very much from what I'm talking about here.

great disclaimer; and neat thread howell.

i like mb1's list

I kind of think too that being like a little boy for that 20% you talk about also falls into this.

I like having that little bit cause it suits my natural personality. Being like a little boy/being like a kid like poking his little sister.

Girls like a guy that’s part masculine man, part little kid who never grew up (or so I hear).

         -Dunking your head in a girls lap when  she’s sitting down and lying down like that and talking to her from that position with her clothed pussy in your face
         -Pantsing (how do you spell that) a girl when she’s wearing yoga pants and then slapping her a bit and laughing and running off
         -Play fighting
         -Laying on her lap and eating food, like a little kid (and doing this for a bit and watching a movie or something)
         -Playing with your own hair or doing skin care with her like facials and shit
         -Scooping her boob and laughing
         -Doing that fake hand shake thing where you fake it and then brush your hair with your hand instead cause you’re too cool to shake hands

Again would never do this stuff if I’m not fucking, and wont if I don’t propose it or want to do it (i.e. if she wants to do it/proposes it I’m probably less receptive and not down). But some acting like a little boy I think falls into the 20% category you describe.

Maybe it even ends up being like a mother little son type of dynamic, polar to the dad and little girl dynamic that mb1 talks about. Fuck, mind blown.

What do you guys think?

Gem

 

Yes, I think your example also fits in that 20%. However, I would like to add another disclaimer: examples of being "soft" here are fundamentally misleading, because what we're really talking about is authenticity. The value of these nice guy behaviors is in large part founded on the implied comfort and trust you have for the other person, and for them these are oft experienced as the overflowing of affection and the letting down of your guard. There is something lost when we consider these things techniques to get ourselves somewhere. We are still calculating. We are still on our guard. We are applying a formula. So there is no need for trust.

You say you would never do these things with girls you aren't fucking. It's a practical hard-limit that is based on good reason. However, personally, I find drawing such lines in the sand inhibit me more than they help me. If I feel like pantsing a girl I just met or scooping her boob, I may do it, I may not. I'm MORE LIKELY to do these things with a girl I'm fuck, but this has more to do with our comfort and trust than because I'm worried if I did these things she would not think I'm "man enough" for her.

I bet you actually feel pretty similar to me here. In large part, I think the main obstacle to describing such things has to do with the historically conditioned ruts of our language more than anything.

Howell

 

[Rage]

Yes, I think your example also fits in that 20%. However, I would like to add another disclaimer: examples of being "soft" here are fundamentally misleading, because what we're really talking about is authenticity. The value of these nice guy behaviors is in large part founded on the implied comfort and trust you have for the other person, and for them these are oft experienced as the overflowing of affection and the letting down of your guard. There is something lost when we consider these things techniques to get ourselves somewhere. We are still calculating. We are still on our guard. We are applying a formula. So there is no need for trust.

You say you would never do these things with girls you aren't fucking. It's a practical hard-limit that is based on good reason. However, personally, I find drawing such lines in the sand inhibit me more than they help me. If I feel like pantsing a girl I just met or scooping her boob, I may do it, I may not. I'm MORE LIKELY to do these things with a girl I'm fuck, but this has more to do with our comfort and trust than because I'm worried if I did these things she would not think I'm "man enough" for her.

I bet you actually feel pretty similar to me here. In large part, I think the main obstacle to describing such things has to do with the historically conditioned ruts of our language more than anything.

Howell

Great point Howell!

You're correct I'd be the same way as you mention: it'd be a rule I typically follow but I wouldn't think too much of it if it were broken if it so happened to just happen but feel and seem fitting and natural in a particular case. Would have to happen in a way (all this would) where not thinking about it, and it's instead something you do but don't really think about, and only in later reflecction can say and ackowledge that "oh yeah I guess i do, do that once in a while).

I've been wondering for a few days about this matter of setting hard rules for improvement oriented guys like us, and how that should ideally go. I asked Chase about it in an article comment, so will hear back from him perhaps at some point in the future (when he gets to it), but what I asked about is in regard to setting hard rules, should rules be set which are really, truly, absolutely never broken once set. Does Chase set his rules like that? I was curious as to that...

I feel as it would be more effective, but it does go against our human nature of being fairly inconstant and desiring balance over absolutes. Probably this matters more in some cases than in others, and stemming from that you can only set true hard rules about certain things but then not so about other things? Wonder about that stuff...

But again good point about genuity and calibration; it really is the unspoken final pieceof the puzzle that makes most any of these tactics we use work effectively (and is likely the one that leaves some guys who are trying this stuff but lacking that gradually developed authenticity to scratch their heads and wonder where they are falling short).

Gem

 

[TheChased]

Great thoughts here!

What came to mind was relationships where the guy is hitting her girl (50% bad boy), but extremely lovable at other times (50% nice guy). And girls won't leave the guy because of this, and people sit there wondering why the girl is going on with the relationship. This of course, is taking this to the extreme, and I hope no one here does this. But point taken is, because the guy is balancing this so good, he keeps the girl in the relationship.

Therefore, I think balance is really important, and keeping that balance is the hard part. In my past relationships I have ended up being too much of a bad boy. Not hurting the girl or anything like that, but doing my own things and ended up in some bad situations. Some positives of course was having some crazy sex adventures that the girls probably will never forget. I didn't balance it out enough tho, so maybe 30-40% bad boy, and 15-25% nice guy, and the remaining somewhere in between. The girls ended up loving me A LOT, but the relationships couldn't go on because I wasn't attainable enough or I had to brake up because she got angry too often.

I can definitely relate to what you're writing here!

-TC