Conversational Skills - Attempting to deep dive But confusing others

[windsofchange]

A topic discussed by Chase on the main site is how to master the art of conversation for its myraid number of uses.

My problem stems from the fact that while attempting to deep dive, I appear to be met with alot of 'i don't know' 'just because' or variations thereof, ie dead-end responses.

Like as an example, Chase asks about a girl, why she chose accounting over finance, etc. Yet when I try to do something similar, I don't get to the source, I end up just confusing them. Why does this happen?

 

[ray_zorse]

I get this too and find it frustrating... but in theory what you do is to ask them for further specifics by throwing some hypotheticals at them.

You: So how come you went into working with the disabled?
Her: Oh I just ended up doing that
You: So you must enjoy helping people
Her: Yeah I guess
You: But if you enjoy helping people you could have gone into teaching... or charity work... why the disabled?
Her: Oh that's simple, it's because I used to care for my neighbour's disabled boy growing up
You: Oh right you must have had an amazing childhood...
Her: Yeah! blah blah blah we didn't have much money blah blah blah we were a community blah blah blah
You: blah blah blah
...
You: (returning to her career choice) So when you had to choose your major you had all that experience of blah blah
Her: Yeah so I just knew straightaway that blah blah etc

I guess this is related to cold reading too. Sometimes you have to think for them and they will surely correct you if you are off base

cheers, Ray

 

[windsofchange]

I'll have to try more of that cold readinga and making general assumptions. Thanks for the advice.

 

[fsc]

I posted a similar question not too long ago because a lot of the college girls I've talked to recently weren't giving me great responses for me to work off of. Here's what Rob said:

What do you do when a girl is making the conversation interview-like and isn't really putting in the effort, but isn't excusing herself either?

I get these girls and I usually just don't even deep dive hardly anymore. Instead I do my best to talk on an emotional level and really just hit emotional points. VERY similar to how Russell Brand talks to women but just not so Russell Brandish because I'm fucking Mr.Rob not Mr.Russell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqHphlUZ2jk-RB flirt mashup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LenqrU05Yr0-RB with FiFi box

He's very playful and does a good job of breaking women out of autopilot which when girls are in interview mode their generally in autopilot from what I've seen.
I think Chase is probably proficient at it but I can't for the life of me deep dive a girl my age at a bar/nightclub that's there for the sole reason of "fun" for more than a minute or two without things dying out. So instead I just play and tease in a sexual way. Give hypothetical scenario's (usually sexual.. I love to tell the story of the greek god Hephastus raping Athena and how Athena took the sperm and threw it off a mountain which landed on Mother Natures vagina and got her pregnant- Then I use this story to role play a bit). And then do a little deep diving here and there. I for the most part save deep diving for low energy venues and dates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR8LTd-SfBs- Julien with a sexual hypothetical scenario go to 9:00

Ray alluded to it, but deep diving shouldn't be the only "tool" in your conversationalist arsenal. In addition to deep diving and cold reading, you can also try pushing emotional buttons like Rob advised, use role playing, apply social pressure to make her put in some effort, etc. Also try to be observant. For example, if she's wearing a ring/bracelet/etc, then ask her what the story behind it is, and etc.

Before you even start conversing with the girl, make sure your fundamentals are solid and you have a sexual vibe going on. This way it's less likely that she's being boring due to lack of attraction. Girls do get nervous, shy, and some of them straight up don't know what to do or say. If they seem nervous and uncomfortable, be warm and try to put them at ease first rather than probing them with even more questions. Actually, this is what I've been thinking of trying the next time I run into a boring/nervous girl:
Her: (Nervous)
Me: Are you nervous? (Warmly, of course) Hahaha (slow chuckle) don't worry, I don't bite...Actually when I was a little kid, I used to be deathly afraid of dogs because while I was playing hide-and-seek with my cousins...

Here I'm hoping that the "are you nervous?" will shock her out of whatever damn state she was in, and the "don't worry, I don't bite" will assure her that I am a fairly-highly-socially-developed guy who is on her side and will work with her to get out of awkwardness. It also shows some balls to call out her nervousness because I can imagine that most guys would try to ignore the awkwardness and work really really hard to make the conversation work somehow. Instead, I'm being like "alright, I know you're fucking nervous, but no worries because I got your back". Then I transition into an embarrassing personal story because when someone knows something embarrassing about you, they can feel more at ease, more trusting toward you, etc. Also dogs and childhood memories are both warm and fuzzy topics as opposed to employment and academic major and whatnot. And after I'm done telling my short story, now I can talk to her about her childhood memories, dogs/pets, childhood fears, current fears, family, etc.

Also, make sure that YOU are talking as well. When she asks you something, don't be overly focused on turning the conversation back to her. Respond with material that she can work off of, without revealing too much about yourself, of course. For example:
Me: So what do you see yourself doing five years from now?
Her: I don't know...
Me: (Apply social pressure by looking warmly into her eyes with slight smile, then slowly look to the side for a second or two, then look at her again, warm but bored)
Her: What about you? What do you see yourself doing five years from now?
Me: Hmm...I'd be freelance coding, but I'm not sure where I'd be. Maybe on a beach in Australia, maybe being chased by dogs in Korea again...Would you say you're a live-in-the-moment type of girl? A free-spirit, spontaneous, fun, and YOLO?
Her: Yeah! I guess I could say that I am! (Hopeful/ideal response lol)
Me: Awesome, I like fun girls.

I used to hit dead-ends pretty damn frequently because plenty of college girls have no clue what they want to do with their life. Then things would get awkward because I sorta indirectly screened her ambitions and shit, and she failed to qualify because she has no clue what she's doing with her life. So try to turn that around and frame her as being a fun girl because bitches like fun. Then give her your approval by saying shit like "awesome, I like fun girls". Also at this point, she has things to discuss (freelancing, coding, traveling, ideal place to work/live, etc), and you can also ask her about her fun adventures and maybe transition into sharing crazy sexcapade stories and shit.

Also if you're a really attractive dude, and she's being boring/bored in the middle of a date, then it could be a sign that she wants you to take her home and bang the shit out of her. So try escalating.

If all else fails, you can resort to some canned, overused date questions like "If you had a million dollars, how would you spend it?" or "If you could have any superpower, what would it be and what would you do with it?" Hopefully the girl will have triple-digit IQ and reply with something that you can work with. If not, whatever. You just screened out a girl who's too awkward for you.

I can imagine how some girls can be confused, especially if they're young. I eavesdrop other people's conversations from time to time, and I don't hear deep diving too often. I usually hear a lot of boring, impersonal, surface-level shit. So you might actually be her first dude who made her think about her motives and shit.

Have fun, and may the force be with you.

EDIT:
Also, I've recently purchased a bracelet made of bones and a gold boxing glove necklace, both of which have meaning to me (both are small and low-key/understated). The main goal I'm seeking to achieve with the items is to give girls something to start talking about (also they kinda make me look bad ass). So you can look into adding some meaningful conversation pieces to your wardrobe as well.

 

[Drck]

Most likely your questions appears too LOGICAL, perhaps too serious. She thinks that you are trying to find out specific answer - which she has no clue about. Logic kills attraction, focus on emotions instead. Remember she is just a silly girl...

There is lots of topics to talk about with girls. It is much easier to talk about things you and she knows about. Girls usually like to talk a lot (much more than guys), so simply try to figure out what she likes and let her talk about it by asking more details. Try to talk about stuff that is exciting to her.

Try to avoid conversations she doesn't like to talk much about or she doesn't know much about. For example, most students don't know exactly what they want to do exactly in their life. Accounting? Finances? Psychology? History? Biology? Most likely she has no clue, she could do many things. There is no point of asking her question about it, it doesn't feel comfortable, she doesn't have any logical reason why this and not that.

 

[windsofchange]

Thank you both for your inputs.

Drck, being too logical is probably exactly what I've been doing wrong. Probably a side effect of studying programming - you end up thinking like a machine. Thanks for this advice.

Fsc, you've given me loads of ideas to test drive with. Thank you.

 

[Smith]

Hey Drexel,

So, to make the interaction FUN for a woman--the only goal you should really have while keeping the ultimate goal in mind--just FLOW with her. Roam all around conversationally. Go on tangents, take some point she made or thing she said and just start talking and joking about it, then do it again and branch into something else later, weave in observations and jokes about what's going on around you, then talk about one thing, then another, then a physical thing so now you can get closer to her physically, then pull back and go in any direction you like.

I have noticed a change in my conversation from when I first started out. When I first started out, I would consciously tried to deep dive and filtering everything I said. But now I realized most of my conversations with women these days are just 'fluff', where we will talk about a lot of things that are just funny and amusing, and I'll escalate at the same time. I might deep dive her to find out what she likes and what kinda person she is, but mostly the conversation is about some random shit around us and I'll make the topic sexual to find out what she's like sexually. The point is I stopped having a specific "goal" in my conversation like I used to except to make things fun and sexual and go with what she says. Is this the right way to go about it? or can I do better? Like you said, I found just vibing with a girl with no specific goal in my conversation seemed to be more fun for both me and her.

Cheers

 

[Lotus]

So if I were to try to summarize Drexel's point.... ride the conversation where ever it takes you and avoid driving it.... be more of a co-pilot ensuring the conversation doesn't crash and burn?

 

[Smith]

Replace 'ride' with 'lead' and 'driving' with 'controlling'