Date questions

[Bboy100]

Ok so, I have a date tomorrow, and for the first time ever (as far as I remember) I scheduled it for a Friday night as opposed to a weekday. This means that we both have more time, so I figured I could move her around a little more just for the sake of compliance. The problem is, I can't really think of where to take her. So far, the plan is to meet her at a bar in the downtown area of my city. There are actually a lot of bars/clubs in that area, but I'm not sure if taking her to a club is a good idea, and moving to a different bar might be redundant?

So basically, the way I see it, I have four options:
1. Run a regular informational date and split off or try to pull her after 1-1.5 hours.
2. Spend the entire night (3+ hours) at that one bar. <---Im guessing this is a bad idea
3. Go bar hopping. The compliance+the change in environment might make her feel like we've spent a lot more time together than we actually have, this might do a better job of priming her for intimacy. But this also faces the same problem as #2...wtf am I gonna talk about/do with a girl I've just met for an entire 3 hours?
4. Meet at a bar then take her to a dance club (dance clubs and bars are pretty much all my city has). Obviously, a dance club is normally a bad first date idea. But what if I already have attraction+a connection built from the time we spent at the bar? Never tried this though, so I don't know how this would go.

Also, in terms of pulling her...my logistics are kinda bad. If we get drunk (pretty likely), there's really no way for me to get home other than by cab. I live about 10 mins away. I could ask her to come with me, but then she would have no way of getting back (i.e. no plausible deniability that we're going to my place just for "drinks and a movie"). Also, it doesn't make much sense for me to be asking her over to mine because she lives way closer...but I don't know if she has roommates/what her living situation is like.

Moreover, I met this girl via Tinder, and on her profile, she openly mocks guys who are looking for hookups (ie. she obviously isn't open to one). Good news is, at least via text, she seems REALLY into me for some reason. Still, at least on a logical level, I feel like there's going to be resistance when it comes to sleeping with me on a first date.

Thoughts about all this? Am I overthinking it?

 

[Lotus]

Hey Bboy,

First off everyone has a different way of running their dates based on preference, but yeah option two is probably a bad idea. If you want to bar hop 2 bars at an hour each would keep the time down and get that compliance up.

I wouldn't say you are overthinking it because having a rough outline to the night with options depending on how the date proceeds is good.

Also, in terms of pulling her...my logistics are kinda bad. If we get drunk (pretty likely), there's really no way for me to get home other than by cab. I live about 10 mins away. I could ask her to come with me, but then she would have no way of getting back (i.e. no plausible deniability that we're going to my place just for "drinks and a movie"). Also, it doesn't make much sense for me to be asking her over to mine because she lives way closer...but I don't know if she has roommates/what her living situation is like.

Is there a nearby park of scenic location you can "take a walk to"? Because yeah she will probably have her defense up, and it could tackle your logistics problem. She also wouldn't necessarily plan for you to try to bang her at a park, so it will feel more natural to her. Along the lines of wow he really likes me, and wants me vs he just wants to hookup.

Well screen her logistics on the date!

 

[ray_zorse]

Brum is right in that moving her somewhere quieter and where there are less people will create a more intimate vibe and a feeling of progression towards intimacy, which she will like, assuming she is open to being intimate with you.

Coffee followed by sitting on a bench overlooking the river has worked for me, and sitting side-by-side while conversing on intimate topics is good because you can use incidental touch to your advantage, which might be harder in a bar.

Remember to think positively and assume attraction and try for the pull, all that crap about not being into hookups on Tinder is basically a shit test to screen out lesser men (whether she realizes it or not -- she may have romantic notions but at the end of the day she just wants a fuck with an attractive, dominant man)... if she's on Tinder she's down to hook up with the right guy. Period. Just be that guy

Having got that out of the way... a few suggestions. Firstly, drink minimally. If you bring your car and commit to having only one or two drinks you'll have more options, however you then face the challenge of getting her in your car. If you do this it's good to move her a short distance by car first, to get her used to being in your car -- you suggest the place (to add comfort) then casually lead her to your car. Later you could say something like "it's getting cold out, lets go sit in the car and listen to some music", maybe even seed the music earlier... or you could grab a hot drink to drink in the car etc.

But, assuming you don't want to go this route then you'll have to get her into a taxi, which can be more difficult as you relinquish control, she'll hear you giving the address to the driver and she may jump in with her own instructions, etc. If you're as dominant as fuck and have built sufficient compliance and attraction you can just throw her in a cab and take control, but otherwise you want to be on the same page before getting in (seed a pull to watch film, etc).

Pulling to her place is similar but even more so, it requires decent cooperation from her up front. By all means check her logistics as Brum suggested, but they're likely to be bad (in homeless pickup, I met a lot of girls who were open to furthering things, but hardly any had a suitable place).

Lastly, some more practical suggestions -- after the bar, if some open air place or a walk on a promenade or similar isn't an option, I suggest karaoke or a game. Karaoke is great because you can just escalate right there in the private room, however you run the risk of good feelings substitution (she has a great time singing with you and/or making out, hence does not require sex to complete her night)... but if you feel she's a tough nut to crack, a makeout on date 1 followed by "easy date" for date 2 (she comes to your home) can be a good option. A game, such as pool or darts (or even some more vigorous activities such as if there's a baseball simulator in your town) also does a lot of good things for you -- it takes the focus and pressure off conversation, it associates fun feelings with you, you can escalate touch (help her with her posture and form... challenge her that if she misses her shot she has to kiss you etc)... and when you return to deep diving later a more multi dimensional vibe has been set, so she'll likely be down to share and invest more.

Hope it helps.

Ray

 

[Bboy100]

Ok, so I went out and did some scouting and there's a pretty cool park which is a five or six minute drive from the bar. It's a 30 min walk, and its the closest park to the bar. So if we do go there, we'll prob have to drive. At any rate, I was just there at 11:00 PM and it was isolated. There was literally no one there. Additionally, there's a pretty cool waterfront there. So I could definitely go there.

Also, I've decided against the heavy drinking. Probably gonna have 2 drinks, no more.

Now I have just a few more problems:

however you then face the challenge of getting her in your car. If you do this it's good to move her a short distance by car first, to get her used to being in your car -- you suggest the place (to add comfort) then casually lead her to your car

1. She's driving herself there. That means we have two cars. What if she decides she wants to go in her own car? In fact, it seems like it wouldn't make logical sense for her to go in my car because that means I would have to drive her back to the bar as opposed to splitting off at the park. Come to think of it, other than for the sake of compliance, is riding in the same car even necessary?

2. How would I word the request to go to the park to begin with? Even though there's a waterfront there, so the view is relatively nice, it still seems like asking her to go to a secluded park in the dark with no one except me an hour after meeting her might be asking for quite a lot.

 

[ray_zorse]

Having two cars is a PITA, I would leave mine at home and then just have her drive both of you around. This is a win-win, it's easier for you, builds compliance (you give the orders), and, there's no comfort issue. But, I would suggest not to go for the park in the dark... it sounds too creepy, although one option might be to suggest retiring to the car to listen to music (maybe bring some music with you, not sure what system she's likely to have but a USB or iPod might do it?). Then you give her a kiss and hopefully leave her wanting more, and you casually suggest you know somewhere where it would be a bit more isolated. Otherwise, what about one of the other suggestions above?
Ray

 

[Bboy100]

Ok, so this is kind of a hybrid response. Cause I already went on the date. So a summary of the results. But also, I don't actually have the logistics issue covered. So I figured I might as well keep discussing that.


So, this date didn't work out. I lost control at the start. I did a few things right but for the most part, she was leading. In fact, I had a plan to go to a certain bar, after the first one, but instead, she offered a different one and I said yes. Additionally, at the start of the date, after she suggested her bar, I said "yeah, we can go play pool when we get there". She said ok. By the time we actually got there, she decided against it (playing pool). We stayed there for a little while longer, got another drink. We were planning on going dancing after that. At one point, she went to the bathroom. When she came back, she completely changed her mind about everything. At first she as saying how she was gonna get drunk and we were gonna go dancing (I didn't suggest any of this. She brought it up herself) . When she came back, she said she wanted to go to a friend of her's house and have a girls night out. I tried persisting, telling her she should stay etc. But she wouldn't budge. I also tried to kiss her on the walk back to her car. And she didn't just refuse compliance, she almost freaked out (honestly it makes me wonder why she even went to the second bar with me to begin with).

As for logistics (for future dates),

why run the date any differently than you would during the week?

Tbh, I hadn't really covered logistics very well in any of my dates. I should've done this/posted this a long time ago. I always assumed that during the week, girls would have shit to do. So I just did an informational date then tried to move onto a second easy date (rarely happens). Tonight, I just wanted to try out something different, hoping that its more effective.

But, I would suggest not to go for the park in the dark... it sounds too creepy,

Yeah, that seemed to be the case to me too. I just assumed others had done it before since there are a lot of articles on public sex on this site.

challenge her that if she misses her shot she has to kiss you etc

How exactly do I do this? I've seen guys try to do this several times, and they always ended up looking like tools if/when the girl says no.

As for karoke, I only know one bar in my town which has it. And its in front of everyone. Not in a private room.


A couple more things about that date in specific:
1. Even though she rejected my kiss attempt, earlier on (when I was persisting that she stay), she said she wanted to go out with me again the next day. But I'm not sure if that was just to get me to stop persisting or if she actually meant it.
2. We didn't end on bad terms, it wasn't awkward. Nothing like that.

So, should I text her tomorrow? I'm guessing no. Just want your guys's opinions.

 

[ray_zorse]

NEXT.

Loss of control is never good. When they suggest stuff, it's a good idea to counter-suggest something better. I guess sometimes you have to think on your feet a bit. But you can always just refuse compliance, e.g. "no, I don't feel like it" / "I don't like that place" -- girls do this, you can too Another way to refuse compliance is e.g. she asks you to carry her shopping, you say "haha, do I look like a shopping trolley?".

I had this happen recently, I had to change money so I had her take me there (she looked it up on her phone in Japanese), by this time I wasn't quite sure of the direction of my favourite restaurant, so I let her choose the restaurant too, which was only average. When I took her to the love hotel after this, she came out with some hard no, and then left pretty quickly. It's either because I didn't build enough connection and attraction, or because I didn't lead dominantly, or a combination of the two. I think the same analysis applies to your case, her freaking out when you went to kiss her. It's good she didn't leave, though.

As to her change of attitude after going to the bathroom, IMO it could be one of three things
(1) missed escalation window... can explain a 180 degree change of attitude, can you think of any missed window that arose immediately prior?
(2) her emotions subsided and her logical brain kicked in, thinking "should I sleep with this guy?", without you there creating positive emotions
(3) she called or texted her friend, and either a better offer came up, or she discussed her reservations about you and the friend cockblocked you.
About missed window it can be something like, she asks "where do you live?" (if she brings this up, then PULL PULL PULL), or it can just be a feeling you get "we've been sitting here for too long"... either way, you must ACT IMMEDIATELY, or emotions subside and she starts to see you as a guy who doesn't make things happen, leading to a sudden loss of value and attainability that's almost impossible to recover from.

None of these thing would be an issue if sufficient attraction and connection had been built, so my money is on her being somewhat on the fence about you after 1st bar, especially after the lack of leadership. Given she wanted to meet you again, I think possibly you boyfriend-zoned yourself, did you do anything to show a lot of provider value or loyalty etc?... I think you mentioned earlier that you are good-looking, so I suppose she could have tried to slow things down in order to manipulate you into the boyfriend zone, but it seems unlikely, because I think if a hot guy boyfriend-candidate went for a kiss she'd accept it.

Ray

Edit: About the kissing you if she misses her shot (or if she loses the game), if she refuses you can hard push a bit... "ha ha, you're just worried you're gonna lose the game, get your A game out girl"... and if she persistently refuses then you don't argue further, you just take it as acceptance, and then when she loses the game you smile flirtatiously and touch your cheek, and then she may just change her mind hahaha.

 

[Bboy100]

As to her change of attitude after going to the bathroom, IMO it could be one of three things
(1) missed escalation window... can explain a 180 degree change of attitude, can you think of any missed window that arose immediately prior?
(2) her emotions subsided and her logical brain kicked in, thinking "should I sleep with this guy?", without you there creating positive emotions
(3) she called or texted her friend, and either a better offer came up, or she discussed her reservations about you and the friend cockblocked you.
About missed window it can be something like, she asks "where do you live?" (if she brings this up, then PULL PULL PULL), or it can just be a feeling you get "we've been sitting here for too long"... either way, you must ACT IMMEDIATELY, or emotions subside and she starts to see you as a guy who doesn't make things happen, leading to a sudden loss of value and attainability that's almost impossible to recover from.

Well, a few minutes prior to going to the bathroom, she had asked me where I live/who I lived with. But, it was asked in such a casual way that I didn't even consider it to be an escalation window. I thought she was just making conversation. Especially since we had already made plans for what we were going to do for the rest of the night. But yeah, I'm guessing that might've been my mistake. Also, like I said, she decided to go to a friend's house. Whereas earlier that night, she said she was driving home alone after we're done. So I'm guessing her friend texted her in the bathroom. Lastly, there wasn't much of a sexual vibe, so it wouldn't make sense that she consider sleeping with me yet. But at this point, I've discovered that doesn't always matter (i.e. some girls will be ok with moving things forward even when I do everything wrong, and some girls won't do anything even if I'm perfect). So imo, maybe I missed an escalation window, and a friend almost definitely texted her.