Dealing with the approach bubble

[Will_V]

Hey all you texting gurus, would appreciate some help with an issue I've got!

So this has happened to me a bunch of times and I don't quite know what's going on. It goes like this: I approach a girl, and we have a very fun interaction with a strong connection, great energy, a lot of receptive body language and smiling on her part.

I send her an icebreaker text, and she responds well.

Then I send another text the next day, and get no response. I try something to get her attention, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but by then the interaction feels like it's missing a lot of energy and I'm working with very marginal investment.

...

Here's an example that happened the other night. So I meet this girl who's out for exercise. She responds very well to my opener "Hey I wanted to say hi cos you're very cute" with smile. She's giggling, doing that thing of tucking her chin down and gazing up at me, I ask her what she's doing, tease her a bit about how much she runs (it's a lot!) and she's enjoying it. We talk about random stuff and I ask her a bit about herself. After a while the conversation wraps up a bit and she looks down and wiggles her body like "are you gonna get my number or what". So I do, and I suggest a coffee date which she agrees to happily.

Basically, it's like we're in a bubble together, and the emotions are really good.

So far so (apparently) good. Although I will note that she didn't ask a lot about me (I don't think she asked about what I do) which is never a good sign and I think an indicator of the problem, I'll get back to it.

Here's the texting, let's call her HB:

Me: Hey little miss running addict wonderful meeting you tonight! ~Will <kudos to Chase for the squiggle!>

Her: Hahahaha same to you Will

Hey HB, hope those feet are doing okay today gonna hit the gym later on, too much sitting and not enough moving! .. let's grab that coffee sometime this wkend? Lmk when you're free

OK so here's where I didn't get a response. A couple of things I'd say about my text: it's a bit lazy and boring (tbh I was a bit lazy because I thought I'd already built up a lot of good emotion). And it also pulls the trigger a bit early, while possibly also mixing rapport and logistics, which I know the GC article on texting warns not to do.

Still, I think it's decent enough to get a response if she's actually interested. Which brings me to what, as best I can tell, is the real issue: bursting bubbles.

Chase wrote a great eye opening article on why some interactions where she seems very invested don't work, and why others that seem to be a bit flat get a lot of compliance later on. I can't remember the article name, if someone knows it I'll link it here.

IIRC, the problem is that when you build up a lot of 'good feelings' there's a bit of a crash and questioning of things later on, whereas if you pace it slower she stays more intrigued and ready to invest bit by bit.

And also, she wasn't asking about me, but rather perhaps enjoying too much the good feelings I was providing, and so afterward didn't really feel invested in me.

If that's just the way it is, so be it. But I'm a romantic guy, and I like interactions where the energy is quickly flowing. Have any of you found a way to have these 'bubble moments' and managed to deal with the energy later on? Or am I completely off about what the problem is here?

One thing I've done in the past with mixed results is at the end of an approach I'll say "What do you want to know about me? I'll give you one question but don't make it boring". It seems to work OK, and is probably something I should have done here.

...

I'll just add a couple more texts for context. So after she didn't reply I waited a day and sent:

Me: Hey miss running girl, I got a question for you .. but you have to promise you won't give me a boring answer ..

Her: Hiii will, sorry I've been working too much and forgot answer you
Her: Haha tell me

Me: Promise..?

.. and no answer. I think the idea here was good, but was dumb of me to push for a promise when there was already so little investment.

Thing is, she obviously wasn't planning to reply, but the question thing hooked her in. I'd rather avoid this situation altogether, where I'm throwing lines out trying to rehook a girl who by all accounts seemed to like me.

Any ideas much appreciated!

 

[Darius]

Hey man, newbie here, I'll leave my 2 cents while you're waiting for an opinion from the more advanced guys, and then maybe we can both learn something

1st text was good imo (I don't see how it was lazy personally?). Yes you want to split rapport building and making plans, but that's because you can do them sequentially and it won't feel like double texting (which gives off a chasey vibe).

So I like to text a girl:

- Hey HB, how are you! I've got a pretty free week coming, would you like to go for a coffee sometime?

If she says yes, all good!

If she says no, you can talk to her a bit and ask her why not, is she busy, etc etc. Basically end with a positive vibe so she kinda forgets rejecting you lol. Then go to text #2

If no response, then you can go directly to text #2.

Which is after 2-3 days you just text her this:

- Hey HB, hope you're having a nice day!

Props to Hector, I originally got it from this video -

For me it works 90% of the time. Unless I get a girl that's just TOTALLY not interested, I'm pretty confident I can take any small sliver of interest and get her out. And if it doesn't work for whatever reason, just stagger like Hector says, and give her a parting shot after 3-4 attempts.

Now, I did also do texts where I mixed rapport building and asking out, but then you want to send something totally unrelated if they don't answer e.g. if I know she's into plants I'll just send a picture of my plant after 2 days like "oh check this out, it's growing nicely!".

IIRC, the problem is that when you build up a lot of 'good feelings' there's a bit of a crash and questioning of things later on, whereas if you pace it slower she stays more intrigued and ready to invest bit by bit.

That said I totally agree with this, especially in night game. Whenever I hit it off too much with a girl at the start and the energy is bursting at the seams, I know that if I don't pull her there she's 100% gone.

I don't know why it is, most likely I think cause the next time you text her she's really not in that same energy she was when you were talking with her. So she remembers you as being this wild guy and now she's in a relaxed mood.

Or she has big expectations for you because you hit it off so well, and she's afraid to 'mess it up'. It's kind of like if she meets a handsome guy that has a nice car and he's smart, etc. vs meeting Jim from around the corner, except with game. She don't wanna screw it up with Mr handsome but Jim's just the regular guy that's like her but he's also cool so of course she has no trouble texting him back.

I found that being more like Jim helps a lot.

For this reason I tend to pull the breaks when the energy is getting out of hand too early. If I'm in a group, I give other people more attention. If it's just me and her, I'll let my attention drift to somewhere else for a bit. Then go back into the bubble.

 

[Will_V]

Hey man, newbie here, I'll leave my 2 cents while you're waiting for an opinion from the more advanced guys, and then maybe we can both learn something

Hey Darius!

1st text was good imo (I don't see how it was lazy personally?). Yes you want to split rapport building and making plans, but that's because you can do them sequentially and it won't feel like double texting (which gives off a chasey vibe).

It felt lazy to me because (seems to me) it looks too wordy and trying. I actually think a text more like you wrote here, something more casual, would have been better:

So I like to text a girl:

- Hey HB, how are you! I've got a pretty free week coming, would you like to go for a coffee sometime?

If she says yes, all good!

If she says no, you can talk to her a bit and ask her why not, is she busy, etc etc. Basically end with a positive vibe so she kinda forgets rejecting you lol. Then go to text #2

If no response, then you can go directly to text #2.

Which is after 2-3 days you just text her this:

- Hey HB, hope you're having a nice day!

Props to Hector, I originally got it from this video -

For me it works 90% of the time. Unless I get a girl that's just TOTALLY not interested, I'm pretty confident I can take any small sliver of interest and get her out. And if it doesn't work for whatever reason, just stagger like Hector says, and give her a parting shot after 3-4 attempts.

Now, I did also do texts where I mixed rapport building and asking out, but then you want to send something totally unrelated if they don't answer e.g. if I know she's into plants I'll just send a picture of my plant after 2 days like "oh check this out, it's growing nicely!".

Good stuff here. The point about sending a very short text strikes me as a good idea, and also sending a new topic text after a while when she doesn't reply. I tried this today but no go. I will probably send her a very short cheery text in a few days wishing her a good morning or whatever, but it's a very thin margin by this point.

That said I totally agree with this, especially in night game. Whenever I hit it off too much with a girl at the start and the energy is bursting at the seams, I know that if I don't pull her there she's 100% gone.

I don't know why it is, most likely I think cause the next time you text her she's really not in that same energy she was when you were talking with her. So she remembers you as being this wild guy and now she's in a relaxed mood.

I agree with this, but I've been thinking a bit about this aspect and I've got a theory that something slightly different is going on.

Something I've noticed a pattern of is that when I've been not approaching very much (which has been the case lately) and then get back into it, at first I'm very much focused on providing good feelings and simply enjoying myself, because I know that when you get back into the swing of things it's important to make it something you can do regularly.

And then, I'll get some numbers and they'll fall flat. And this ticks me off, I think "how the hell can that happen?" and I start to feel like I've lost my edge, and this makes me annoyed and hungry for success. And so I start getting very focused and intentional, pushing myself harder, and this comes across in my interactions as a much more dominant frame (whereas before my frame might have been weaker than I thought, even if I was doing a good job at pacing her emotions).

I remember clearly that my last same night lay happened when I was pretty ticked off coming off a similar type of situation, and I think it shifted my emotions toward having a lot more intent rather than just creating nice bubbles.

Or she has big expectations for you because you hit it off so well, and she's afraid to 'mess it up'. It's kind of like if she meets a handsome guy that has a nice car and he's smart, etc. vs meeting Jim from around the corner, except with game. She don't wanna screw it up with Mr handsome but Jim's just the regular guy that's like her but he's also cool so of course she has no trouble texting him back.

I found that being more like Jim helps a lot.

For this reason I tend to pull the breaks when the energy is getting out of hand too early. If I'm in a group, I give other people more attention. If it's just me and her, I'll let my attention drift to somewhere else for a bit. Then go back into the bubble.

Another great point here. I'll add to this that, because women have a certain expectation of provider type guys (perhaps even emotional providing?) as being more 'normal' and following social norms more closely whereas the guys who are 'know what they want' (i.e. she's more likely to bang quickly) as having a more reckless, dominant and careless personality, perhaps I'm getting caught out being too focused on the sugar and not putting in enough of the spice.

I was reading Mark Manson's book and he talked about being polarizing, and I realized that sometimes I get too focused on providing a sort of 'affirmation' to women when I meet them that I don't give them something more confronting to rub up against. And it seems to work because it's pleasant, but she's not turned on so much as she's having a good time.

I guess it's just the process of working out the kinks and sharpening the instincts.

Cheers!

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Will_V dude! The first issue is you got the number, when she wanted it. It sounds like the interaction run to long and you could have got this number without her thinking after you going to do this? At this point the conversation has peaked and on its way down, asking for a number here feels like you run out of stuff to say so thought you'd ask. If you ask on a high note this will give better results.

Straight up asking for the number is another issue, you've got the number but still got to ask her out. Arrange a date, then get the number. It makes sense to get the number when she's agreed to meet, how else do you keep in touch? This stops you coming in cold and closing to early (which you did) on a new interaction.

Rather than just asking you can "qualify" and then set it up: "I've got to get going but you seem cool, we should grab a drink sometime" if she's interested she'll agree, find when she's free, set it up, then get the number. It's basically soft closing.

There's a good text guide on the forum by @Skills where he covers soft closing. Because texting is a new medium and a new conversation (you haven't followed on from anything memorable in your chat) you've hard closed on your second message which was too much to soon and she didn't respond. This should have been indirect and prefaced with a soft close. (Think FSC - female state change)

@Darius dude! I'm not a fan of saying you're pretty free (this week) because you should be busy. This sets the sub frame "I'm not doing anything and I'm bored" which isn't attractive.

I wouldn't ask would you like to go for a drink some time? It sounds unsure and that you're waiting on their approval. I started getting much better results when I changed it to "we should grab a drink some time" I've implied she's already agreed, she doesn't have to think about it.- there's a GC article about this.

This also helps texts flow, they're not littered with questions like from other dudes and the texts feel more like you already know each other. Questions are great and shouldn't be avoided, it gives them something to respond to, this sets a better frame

 

[Skjöldr]

atleast on the texting part this has been talked to death on the forums the past 12 months: stop hard closing right after the icebreaker

i used to do this myself, but it is lower odds. when i stopped doing it my results went up. so atleast there you can increase odds by having better text game. check out @Skills' texting posts


the other thing i'll add is that... this happens to me frequently as well. you will have a girl super into you and then later she will just back out. sometimes these girls will give you some long ass text which i've termed the "Dear John text". They will write a long ass text about how amazing it was you approached them, how sweet you are but for whatever xyz blah blah reason they cant/wont take things further from here with you. (example: blah blah i got personal things going on so i cant date right now blah blah)

and no i havent found solution for this^
so i just take it as part of the game. some girls will get cold feet later, some wont. and yeah, sometimes shit just happens. this is simply a condition of number closes.

 

[Skills]

atleast on the texting part this has been talked to death on the forums the past 12 months: stop hard closing right after the icebreaker

i used to do this myself, but it is lower odds. when i stopped doing it my results went up. so atleast there you can increase odds by having better text game. check out @Skills' texting posts


the other thing i'll add is that... this happens to me frequently as well. you will have a girl super into you and then later she will just back out. sometimes these girls will give you some long ass text which i've termed the "Dear John text". They will write a long ass text about how amazing it was you approached them, how sweet you are but for whatever xyz blah blah reason they cant/wont take things further from here with you. (example: blah blah i got personal things going on so i cant date right now blah blah)

and no i havent found solution for this^
so i just take it as part of the game. some girls will get cold feet later, some wont. and yeah, sometimes shit just happens. this is simply a condition of number closes.

Yes is frustrating! ^ i don't know what else to do to show this guys, that it does not work...

Me: Hey little miss running addict wonderful meeting you tonight! ~Will <kudos to Chase for the squiggle!>

^ i love that you use a nickname we frame "little miss running addict" i hate the emoji, cause shows too much excitement, i would not have use that emoji, but the emoji of the tongue out, also the word "wonderful" cool guys don't really took like that,,, And it shows too much eagerness/excitment.

Her: Hahahaha same to you Will

^ she responded neutrally, you still got nothing, no investment no nothing, just a response...

Hey HB, hope those feet are doing okay today gonna hit the gym later on, too much sitting and not enough moving! .. let's grab that coffee sometime this wkend? Lmk when you're free

^ open> hard close with 0 investment same as say "hey wanna fuck" does not work, i receive dozens in and out of the forum dudes doing that shit IT DOES NOT WORK, super low odds....

Read my texting guide, i am going to work on one for ice breaking text...... again to follow up, the morning works, or the eyes emoji...

 

[Starboy]

Yes is frustrating! ^ i don't know what else to do to show this guys, that it does not work...



^ i love that you use a nickname we frame "little miss running addict" i hate the emoji, cause shows too much excitement, i would not have use that emoji, but the emoji of the tongue out, also the word "wonderful" cool guys don't really took like that,,,



^ she responded neutrally, you still got nothing, no investment no nothing, just a response...



^ open> hard close with 0 investment same as say "hey wanna fuck" does not work, i receive dozens in and out of the forum dudes doing that shit IT DOES NOT WORK, super low odds....

Read my texting guide, i am going to work on one for ice breaking text...... again to follow up, the morning works, or the eyes emoji...

Simple/basic texting guide

There are 2 types of texting most guys use: 1.- long texting setting sexual frames.- This is hard to do, but is possible to do with experience. I had to rely in this style for 2 reasons: a.-) I relied a lot on physical game, no talking dance floor game and i had a heavy latin accent. b.-) By...

www.skilledseducer.com

This was the one right?

 

[Will_V]

Fantastic insights here guys! Let me see if I've got them all.

@Fluxcapacitor even though I would say it's not like I tried to grab the number when it was awkward (it was a natural, comfortable lull in the conversation) I still think you hit the nail on the head here. The fact is I ended the interaction without momentum and urgency, and then followed up the icebreaker with a quite pushy second text, and I think this jarring increase in pressure is the main thing that made her ghost.

I was meditating on my approaches lately (and in general) and I think I've got a habit of not leading interactions very well because I'm too relaxed. It sounds on paper like it would be a good thing but it makes me come across as non-committal and obviously that's the feeling that transfers to her.

And the result of this problem is that I take the number without forward momentum, without giving her the sense that she's already invested into something future-projected.

It's funny because I realized the same thing happens with street sales when people engage me. Sometimes they are too relaxed and friendly, so they compliment me on my clothes or walk or whatever to stop me, and it's easy to enjoy the compliment and vibe, but suddenly when they try to shift the conversation to whatever they're selling, I'm like "eh thanks but I got to go cya!". And then there's others that are still friendly but move things along at a pace to make you feel like you've got on a train that you can't get off, and it's very hard to suddenly go "no".

I will note that I did seed the idea of the date (with a coffee idea) but it was a very hand wavey suggestion that she just sort of nodded along to. I should have extracted way more investment from her, and turned up the pressure a bit rather than being completely focused on good feelings.

I fully agree with your assessment of the text being too much of a close too soon (technically, it was the nail in the coffin). I believe in the GC article on texting Chase mentions that he sometimes goes straight for the meet, but I imagine that's because everything before that was fully congruent with it, probably getting a lot of investment from her initially and creating a lot of perceived value that she hasn't 'received' yet, and so it's not a state change to get her to start investing in the date right away.

Completely agree with your point about the texts (again, creating a sense of urgency by scarcity!). I think @Darius was right about being more casual, but it could have been worded better. I usually try to either avoid questions or place them in the middle of the text (like I did with the followup) and use 'let's' rather than asking for things.

@Phoenix

atleast on the texting part this has been talked to death on the forums the past 12 months: stop hard closing right after the icebreaker

Clear and concise, appreciate it! I got lazy thinking I was on easy street and stopped paying attention to process.

Those 'dear John' texts sound hilarious, I haven't really gotten one but that's probably because when interactions go south far enough I tend to burn them out quickly with a hail mary text that polarizes her one way or the other.

@Skills

Always appreciate your input on things!

I agree about the emoji, it was really a followup to the interaction because it was a very 'feel good' interaction and so it was congruent in that sense, but congruent with exactly what the interaction had far too much of.

I'll keep your point about using 'wonderful' in mind, I think it suits my style, I tend to use a bit flowery words with girls to offset my dominant characteristics. If other things were on point I'm not sure it would have been an issue, but I will pay more attention to whether it really helps me or not.

Your point about the text is well taken, it was definitely asking for investment way too directly, especially considering the way the interaction ended.

Sorry if I'm blind, but where's your texting guide at? Would love to read it. EDIT saw Starboy's link!

...

Really appreciate the help guys! I'm going to focus on getting more investment from her and building up the date more during the interaction, give her more of the vibe that I'm screening her rather than just giving her a good time. I need to reinforce in myself that girls don't give a guy stuff when he doesn't look like he's absolutely sure of what he wants and how it's going to happen, and feel good vibes are just the sugar that draws her in and enables everything else to work.

 

[Will_V]

Simple/basic texting guide

There are 2 types of texting most guys use: 1.- long texting setting sexual frames.- This is hard to do, but is possible to do with experience. I had to rely in this style for 2 reasons: a.-) I relied a lot on physical game, no talking dance floor game and i had a heavy latin accent. b.-) By...

www.skilledseducer.com

This was the one right?

Thanks for the link!

 

[Beam]

I don't have much more to add over what has already been said - but this is the article you were referring to which mentioned how the more intense the bubble in person - the less likely she is to respond later on:

Influence Half-Life: While Away, You're Losing Influence

Influence has a half-life... and every moment you're not with someone, your influence over that person decays. Riddle me this: why is it that some women, while with you, can be utterly captivated by you... then they leave your side and you never hear from them again? Why is it that some women...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Will_V]

I don't have much more to add over what has already been said - but this is the article you were referring to which mentioned how the more intense the bubble in person - the less likely she is to respond later on:

Influence Half-Life: While Away, You're Losing Influence

Influence has a half-life... and every moment you're not with someone, your influence over that person decays. Riddle me this: why is it that some women, while with you, can be utterly captivated by you... then they leave your side and you never hear from them again? Why is it that some women...

www.girlschase.com

That's the one!