Dealing with unwelcome touching

[Dash of Englishness]

I was going to label the thread title "inappropriate touching" but I thought that might cause people to think more along the lines of more extreme examples such as assault or groping. I do not think that this is a matter that is as straight forward at handling as many people might let on, and it is my own opinion that the only real way to learn about this is to share examples of your own, and your thoughts behind them. Little point in giving advice without reference experience.

It's not always as simple as saying "oh if you don't like someone touching you, you should just say 'don't touch me'". In any given social situation there might be several premises that you have accepted without realising, and how you handle the situation will depend on the status of the person who 'touches' you, and whether you perceive the crowd around to be on your side or not. There's a whole load of ways in which someone can't be touched, and many times it might actually be necessary to do so. There can also be a whole load of ways in which someone can be caught off guard. Even if you are brave enough to point out how your boss shouldn't do so and so, you might find that it would be harder to do so at such a point in time after you'd been late for work and weren't spoken to about it. But then later that morning if your boss, lets say, brushes up against your body too much when passing through a doorway, is that just a coincidence? In any case it would be harder to call out such behaviour after already feeling guilty about your own mistake. Some people have twisted minds and it's no harm to know a thing or two about how they think.

Don't get me wrong, you might think that after reading everything below that I'm allergic to being touched. I'm not! Also, please don't think that I'm bad at standing up for myself, because below are mainly examples of where I've failed at being able to do so. Below are my examples in bullet points. I understand the whole thing might be too long to read but I would appreciate maybe, that if an commenters could try to clarify how much they read before replying.

•The first three examples are to do with having your wrist grabbed. A colleague I worked with, when saying hello, put his hand around my wrist. I thought it kind of unusual. I'd be more inclined to grab someone's shoulder if I wanted to give the same kind of greeting. I said "don't be doing that to people" as I did it back to him. He just laughed and we carried talking.​

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•Once in college, during a meeting in with a middle-aged female career guidance councillor, i noticed that she would (when emphasising a point) gently put her thumb and index fingers around my wrist. Nothing mean spirited about it; you'd just feel like she was talking to you the way she'd talk to her own son.​

•This happened when another bus driver and I were changing over at a bus stop (I'm a bus driver). This particular guy is about 15 to 20 years older than me, and was always good enough to have a chat with but I did notice that you don't see him hanging around with other staff that often. As he was exiting the cab it seemed he sort of stumbled out, and when doing so needed to grab onto something and briefly grabbed onto my wrist. But there's something about the feeling of your wrist being completely enclosed that isn't very nice. But it did not seem like he really needed to grab me... he could have just made more of an effort to balance himself. A moment or so later when I was seated in the cab he said 'sorry'. I said 'for what?' and he said for not taking on the passengers (that were waiting outside)... which usually would be done by the new driver (me) anyway. I should have corrected him of course, but I didn't... most likely because I had him categorised as a nice guy. I did ponder a bit about what might have went through his mind when he did this. I could tell myself it's not a big deal until I ask myself how would I expect someone else to react if I did it to them... or until I ask myself if he'd have done the same to a female driver?". I haven't been too comfortable talking to him since. When I've come across him changing over times since this, I try to keep a bit more distance. For example yesterday I was sure to close the cab door (while we were chatting) as soon as I got in, in anticipation of him giving me a pat on the forearm when saying goodbye... you know, the sort of thing that you couldn't really give out to someone for, but that you'd prefer not to happen. Since then I have given a bit more thought as to why you don't see others around him a whole lot. What I would fear though, (crazy and all as it might sound) is that he might be gay. I know all too well myself that any bit of physical contact with an attractive woman even a few days prior can make for very stimulating thought when I wake up with morning wood.​

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•A guy at work who I was taking over from makes his presence known by saying "off you go now don't let the team down" as he gives me several pats on the shoulder/back. When I felt the first pat, I thinking "hopefully it'll just be one or two pats". But then I realised it was going to quite a few done to patronise me in front of others. I said I'd at least give a pat or two back with the one free hand I had. That was of course a weak attempt to stand up for myself and his pats became more forceful towards the end, as he realised that he could take full advantage.​

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•This one happened at the barbers. The guy was a tough guy and had a strong frame. When he tucked the cape underneath my collar he did it with a good bit more force than needed. Later when doing the back with the blade he was doing it with more force than needed. Now to be fair I do have this problem with a lot of male barbers. I wasn't too comfortable as I thought it was going catch one of the hairs badly and cause pain. I said it as politely as I could and boy did he take it the wrong way. I now know why I hesitate saying it to other barbers. He said "did I bump your head or something?". I said "well no, I just thought...". He said he needed to do it that way to cut the hair or something. It ended awkwardly. A bit later he was about to cut off the entire side burn very high up and I had to stop him. He said I have to cut the hair here as it's very thin. He then did this thing where he cleared his throat and gathered his composure before he continued, looking like it took all the patience in the world for him to keep calm. He then went over to change the music and took his time. A bit later when he moved towards the counter he hit his hip into my elbow without apologising. When he was brushing of the loose hair at the end he brushed into my eyes more than he needed to... hair doesn't fall there. I had to close my eyes when he did this. Now I could have pictured him doing this anyway, so I was able to tell myself in the moment that he wasn't doing so in order to get back at me. I did at least confront him when paying about what he did at the end. I do believe that you are potentially in a vulnerable position when getting your hair cut, and that it is a lot harder to stand up for yourself when someone is standing behind you and you are restricted in some ways. I think the worst person you can get is someone who's a brilliant barber with a temperament issue. So as well as the temperament issue, they won't like taking instruction or correction seeing as they're good. They often try and give you the haircut they'd want want themselves. This was a lesson I thought I'd already learned. I remember being in the queue at one barber before and leaving somebody go ahead of me as the next barber that became free looked very macho looking and seemed like he could possible have an attitude problem. It's not that I can't stand up for myself it's just that I like to relax when I'm getting my hair cut.​

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•A woman who used to be a friend of my mother's who I hadn't seen in years outside a church after a confirmation or something, and says something like "oh you've gotten so tall" and starts touching my cheek in front of the others I was talking to. I was 21! I didn't know what had just happened.​

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•A manager at work used to applaud good work in a weird way. He'd try grab the person on the shoulder as he'd say "turn around". Then he'd pat them on the back and say well done. One time this manager brought me down an aisle to show me something and after doing so when he went to walk away, he acted as if he was about to walk right through me. Being caught off guard I moved back and after he stopped briefly he then walked on. I found this very offensive. Another time I saw him grab a walkie-talkie off someone's waist. Technically he didn't touch them when he did it but it didn't look good. After leaving that company and gathering my thoughts on all I'd seen him do to other staff, I put in a complaint about him. He's no longer in charge at the place, whether it have anything to do with me or not I don't know.​

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•Another time I remember my auntie (different one) talking to my father in her house when my cousin was sitting on a high stool in the kitchen. As she was talking, she put her hand on my cousin's knee and sort of leaned on it as if he was a piece of furniture. She leaned on him for about 10 seconds and he didn't look very comfortable.​

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•Of course there may be no touching involved at all. Some of you may have seen this movie. Now I'm sure someone who isn't too street smart might just say to themselves "who he'd just leaning on the wall, he's not doing anything wrong yet".

•The next 5 examples all happened on the one night with my auntie when we had x-mas dinner at her place this Christmas just gone. I've always had a problem with this woman; she can be sarcastic and can get hyper too. I think some of the reason she was worse this time was because it was at her place and that made it harder for me to stand up for myself. Anyway, first thing was after she opened a bottle of sparkling water with it fizzing everywhere and some of it getting on my jeans, she gets a cloth to wipe the table. Then seeing where it had landed on my jeans (the thighs) she starts rubbing that area as if it were an object. I would have just given the person the cloth to do it themselves... not that they'd need to anyway as water won't leave a stain and nothing would be noticed on dark jeans. I just let her... but if I were back I'd have grabbed her wrists to stop her.​

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•On the same night as above she had her legs crossed underneath the table (circular table for 4 with her beside me). The foot that was crossed over would occasionally lightly kick me. I was left wondering "does she realise she's kicking me?". At one point when it happened I was about to say "you've been kicking me all night, do you not even realise?" but unluckily for me, right at the moment I started to say that was the very moment in the middle of a crucial turning point in the board game we were playing, and two others shouted "wooah". I was pretty sure she must have heard what I was about to say just before I was interrupted, so on hindsight I reckon I was ignored rather than interrupted.​

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•Again, the same day as above... when we were preparing some of the dinner before this, at one point I was in the way of her getting at the dishwasher. She was on her knees doing something and she patted my ass while saying 'move'.​

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•At another point during the night she was standing behind my chair and gave me a rub as she was talking to my dad who was seated on the other side of the table. her arm moved slowly down my shoulder towards my bicep before finally moving off. I cringed for several days thinking back to that.​

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•When playing the board game, when I'd get a right answer she'd get excited and sometimes grab my shoulder. The second time she did it I grabbed her back (but yet acting as if it didn't bother me) and told her to calm down. I just have just told her to stop grabbing me and that I didn't like it. It then seemed as if she knew that it annoyed me and started doing it more to test me.​

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•Another thing is if someone pats my chest I mightn't like it too much. I noticed Rory Mcilroy used to do it to Tiger Woods on the 18th green. I'd always cringe when I saw him ding it. Funny that Rory would be telling people how Tiger is his idol and all yet there he is patting him on the chest. Tiger would never pat Rory on the chest.​

Thanks for reading

 

[Conquistador]

A few months ago I was studying at a standing desk in a corner and this ex-military acquaintance came up from behind and put his hands on my shoulders as a way of saying hi.
I couldn’t see who he was so I reflexively spun around and elbowed him.
He apologized and seemed more upset about it than I was.

 

[Dash of Englishness]

I was hoping people would have more to say about this topic. Anyway, the 30:36 mark in this video shows a good example of what I'm talking about. I'd like to know what you guys think of the way Fassbender's character gets touched?

 

[Marcellus]

If someone touches you in an unwelcome way

Just tell them "relax bro"
or "chill my man"

Or if you don't want to say anything, just look at where they touched you in a "wtf are u doing man" sort of reaction and they'll get the message loud and clear.

Or if you wanna take it to the extreme, slowly look at where they touched you, look back at them, look back at where they touched you again and then continue the conversation like normal. It's unspoken but they definitely know what's up

 

[Dash of Englishness]

If someone touches you in an unwelcome way

Just tell them "relax bro"
or "chill my man"

Or if you don't want to say anything, just look at where they touched you in a "wtf are u doing man" sort of reaction and they'll get the message loud and clear.

Or if you wanna take it to the extreme, slowly look at where they touched you, look back at them, look back at where they touched you again and then continue the conversation like normal. It's unspoken but they definitely know what's up

Well yeah, but that only works assuming there's no malice behind the touching... and they've have to keep their hand on you. But yes, that advice could work, but you'd have to be prepared to quickly follow up something else.

What I'm more interested in, is whether people are willing to share their own experiences... or at least comment on one of the examples I've referenced. For example, what do you think of that scene in the Michael Fassbender movie?

 

[James D]

Last summer, my dad and I signed up for a particularly challenging hike.

We showed up on site at 4 a.m. where a guy was gonna train the group (8 people) how to properly use the hiking equipment.

The dude was my dad's ex colleague. I was meeting him for the first time.

Very loud dude, likes to tease, a bit of a prick but otherwise does his job well.

So everyone had their hiking gear on and were enthusiastically practising the drills.

The guide was walking around passing his comments.

Then he came to me:

Him: Everyone look! James tied the perfect knot. Great job man!

And he slapped my ass.

There was some laughter.

He turned around, proceeding to comment on the others. I called him.

Me: Hey man!
Him: Yeah?
Me: Why did you do that?
Him: Do what?
Me: Your hand on my ass, why did you do that?

I was very calm.

He laughed.

Him: Take easy pal! Anyway, so guys, we're gonna...
Me: No man, I'm not done.

I was very calm, like imagine Michael Corleone expressing his disagreement. The volume of my voice was even quite low.

Him: What?
Me: Yeah I'm not. You slapped my ass. That's a weird thing to do to someone you just met.
Him: Hey man, I don't know why you're taking it so wrongly.Im an old friend of your dad and I was just being friendly.

Me: You're idea of being friendly is to grab others asses?

Him: It was a friendly slap man.

Me: You have a strange idea of what friendliness means. Glad we cleared it up. Don't do that again, got me?

Him: Yeah sure

Afterwards my dad told me he was impressed at how I handled the situation. He told me most people would feel awkward doing it.

And that's exactly the point.

These people who express dominance like that, they rely on the fact that you won't confront them because the situation would we awkward.

When I confronted the guide, the whole vibe became awkward. People were watching, some were whispering.

If you can handle that pressure, you'll be fine.

And remember: confronting is good. But, you must be calm. The best example is Michael Corleone. Watch the scene where he confronts Moe Green.

 

[Dash of Englishness]

Last summer, my dad and I signed up for a particularly challenging hike.

We showed up on site at 4 a.m. where a guy was gonna train the group (8 people) how to properly use the hiking equipment.

The dude was my dad's ex colleague. I was meeting him for the first time.

Very loud dude, likes to tease, a bit of a prick but otherwise does his job well.

So everyone had their hiking gear on and were enthusiastically practising the drills.

The guide was walking around passing his comments.

Then he came to me:

Him: Everyone look! James tied the perfect knot. Great job man!

And he slapped my ass.

There was some laughter.

He turned around, proceeding to comment on the others. I called him.

Me: Hey man!
Him: Yeah?
Me: Why did you do that?
Him: Do what?
Me: Your hand on my ass, why did you do that?

I was very calm.

He laughed.

Him: Take easy pal! Anyway, so guys, we're gonna...
Me: No man, I'm not done.

I was very calm, like imagine Michael Corleone expressing his disagreement. The volume of my voice was even quite low.

Him: What?
Me: Yeah I'm not. You slapped my ass. That's a weird thing to do to someone you just met.
Him: Hey man, I don't know why you're taking it so wrongly.Im an old friend of your dad and I was just being friendly.

Me: You're idea of being friendly is to grab others asses?

Him: It was a friendly slap man.

Me: You have a strange idea of what friendliness means. Glad we cleared it up. Don't do that again, got me?

Him: Yeah sure

Afterwards my dad told me he was impressed at how I handled the situation. He told me most people would feel awkward doing it.

And that's exactly the point.

These people who express dominance like that, they rely on the fact that you won't confront them because the situation would we awkward.

When I confronted the guide, the whole vibe became awkward. People were watching, some were whispering.

If you can handle that pressure, you'll be fine.

And remember: confronting is good. But, you must be calm. The best example is Michael Corleone. Watch the scene where he confronts Moe Green.

Thanks for sharing that. You probably sensed something bad coming by the way he was acting? Sounded like more than "a bit of a prick" to me, but I'm wondering if you think his status appeared to drop a bit after that?

And it's also true that we all, at some point, find ourselves in situations where we suddenly notice that others are vulnerable and that we could get away with such behaviour ourselves. Some people unfortunately take advantage this as it brings a false sense of power, and others choose not to.

 

[James D]

Thanks for sharing that. You probably sensed something bad coming by the way he was acting? Sounded like more than "a bit of a prick" to me, but I bet he wouldn't have done it to a woman.

And it's also true that we all, at some point, find ourselves in situations where we suddenly notice that others are vulnerable and that we could get away with such behaviour ourselves. Some people unfortunately take advantage this as it brings a false sense of power, and others choose not to.

Yeah he was pulling a power move on me.

It's good to realize that men can do that.

More powerful, genuine men will come at you from a power neutral angle. Unless necessary, they won't pull nasty power moves on you.

But the rest, yeah they can do that.

The best move I've found is to bring their whatever they did to the surface and let them explain themselves.

The subtler their power moves, the easier it is for them to pretend they didn't mean it.

Some will try to make you look thin skinned and if they succeed at framing you that way, you lose even points by confronting them.

Whether you lose or win points will ultimately boil down to how you react and handle the frame.

 

[Lobo]

if guys are tooling you often and people are comfortable with pushing your bounderies, it might be a sign that you don't command respect.

a lot of it has to do with the value you attach to yourself in the dynamic. As well as your fundamentals.

Ask yourself these questions:

are you supplicating? do you appear comfortable(l?

what's your body language like? are you too closed up? are you trying waaay to hard to look tough(and violating the law of least effort)

do you have tics/tells?

what's your posture like? are you hunched over?

how do you walk? is it confident?

how big is your awareness radius - are you checking every single thing that activates your amygdala like a prey animal?

When you hear a loud noise do you instantly check it? Or do you check it out at your own pace.

How reactive are you?

Are your body movements fast or slow?

Do you move out of people's way - or do you allow them to move out of your way?

What does your voice sound like? is it deep and resonant or do you sound like a chew toy.

Whats your vocal cadence? are you rushing things because ur scared people will ignore you. or... do you slow down your speech... because you know they will listen.

are you mysterious, or have people figured you out. People get a lot more comfortable going out of line if they think they know how you'd react.

People subconsiously pick up on all of these signals and use that to figure out how they should treat you.

im trying to relate to your situation and i've never had those situations so i really think it has to do with how you carry yourself.

as a man your physique also plays a large role. Not required if you have everything else in check, but its an easy way to guarantee you have a decent physical presence.

Sure there are ways to respond to people breaking your boundaries. but if this is happening often to you, its better to fix the illness than to worry about the symptoms

and if people don't treat you the way you want to be treated, then dont spend time with them if you can, and if interaction is unavoidable, then keep things short with them.

 

[James D]

@Dash of Englishness

Check out a website called The Power Moves by a guy called Lucio.

 

[Dash of Englishness]

im trying to relate to your situation and i've never had those situations so i really think it has to do with how you carry yourself.

as a man your physique also plays a large role. Not required if you have everything else in check, but its an easy way to guarantee you have a decent physical presence.

Sure there are ways to respond to people breaking your boundaries. but if this is happening often to you, its better to fix the illness than to worry about the symptoms

and if people don't treat you the way you want to be treated, then dont spend time with them if you can, and if interaction is unavoidable, then keep things short with them.

Thanks,

Well I wouldn't have a physical presence like the Rock or anything, I'm 6 2', and perhaps more like tennis player Andy Murray. I think I hold myself pretty well, so I don't know.

Curious, what did you think of the the Michael Fassbender scene above? He carried himself well enough but it happened to him?

 

[Lobo]

Thanks,

Well I wouldn't have a physical presence like the Rock or anything, I'm 6 2', and perhaps more like tennis player Andy Murray. I think I hold myself pretty well, so I don't know.

Curious, what did you think of the the Michael Fassbender scene above? He carried himself well enough but it happened to him?

i mean its a movie so they followed the script.

but if it were a real thing there's only 2 reasons why

1) he had his back turned while at and angle where his ass was extended, and was ambushed by the other guy

2) the other guy did not fear the repercussions of doing such an action(intimidation)

you need to be at least somewhat intimidating, especially if you feel that people are extremely comfortable in pushing your boundaries

 

[Dash of Englishness]

1) he had his back turned while at and angle where his ass was extended, and was ambushed by the other guy

Well of course, but we're all going have our back turned and ass extended at some point. Are you saying the script is unrealistic? The other guy is his boss btw, and such inappropriate behaviour isn't all that uncommon. And as you probably know, sometimes you'll see guys (who know each other well), do that to each other in a non-gay way. In this case, he's his boss though... but they're also buddies. So there's two ways of looking at it. If Fassbender confronted him, he'd play the buddy card. Anyway, how would you have handled it?

I think the few reference experiences of having these things happen to me has helped stop it with others, and will help me in the future. Whereas if someone (who hasn't had these experiences) were to change overnight from having alpha male physical qualities, to having average physical qualities, then that person mightn't be able to handle such situations anywhere near as well as myself.

 

[Dash of Englishness]

@Dash of Englishness

Check out a website called The Power Moves by a guy called Lucio.

I must thank you for that. It's what I've been looking for all along.

 

[Dash of Englishness]

i mean its a movie so they followed the script.

but if it were a real thing there's only 2 reasons why

1) he had his back turned while at and angle where his ass was extended, and was ambushed by the other guy

2) the other guy did not fear the repercussions of doing such an action(intimidation)

you need to be at least somewhat intimidating, especially if you feel that people are extremely comfortable in pushing your boundaries

Oh come on man, don't chicken out of my question!

 

[Marcellus]

Oh come on man, don't chicken out of my question!

Whats with this fascination about dissecting that movie scene you keep bringing it up multiple times lol

 

[Chase]

If a guy is touching you in an unwelcome way, he is either gearing up to fight you or he is not.

If he is gearing up to fight you, then you need to decide if you are going to fight him (or provoke him into a fight) or if you are going to deescalate. If you’re going to fight, you can grab him, shove him, spit on him, etc. If you’re going to deescalate, then you bring your hands up (looks like you’re suing for peace, but the hands are also defensive), tell him “Easy bro”, and create space between you and him.

If he is not gearing up to fight you, then you can just troll him. Like, the photo in the OP, I had a guy do that to me once who was obviously just being a dick trying to pull a power move. So I put my hand on his forearm and gave it a very sensual stroke while flashing my eyebrows at him in a sexy way. He withdrew that arm right quick and avoided me after that. Probably started fearing for the safety of his butthole around me.

(also, I checked out that Fassbender clip at 30:36. Looks like the two guys are just standing there talking in the kitchen? I didn’t see any touch. Skipped ahead to 31-something and they were still just talking and then the clip ended)

In more social situations where I’m dealing with the guy repeatedly, and he is a big “dominance toucher”, I just mirror that back to him. This is another way of trolling him (but less overtly mocking than the “gay stroke and eyebrow flash”). He slaps you on the back to say hello? Whenever you walk in a room where he is, slap him on the back: “Ayo! How’s my man doing?” He punches you in the arm for jokes? Punch HIM in the arm for jokes! IME after a few rounds of this these types of guys cool it on the excessive touch. It is not something you have to do forever. They get the hint soon enough.

Chase

 

[Dash of Englishness]

If a guy is touching you in an unwelcome way, he is either gearing up to fight you or he is not.

If he is gearing up to fight you, then you need to decide if you are going to fight him (or provoke him into a fight) or if you are going to deescalate. If you’re going to fight, you can grab him, shove him, spit on him, etc. If you’re going to deescalate, then you bring your hands up (looks like you’re suing for peace, but the hands are also defensive), tell him “Easy bro”, and create space between you and him.

If he is not gearing up to fight you, then you can just troll him. Like, the photo in the OP, I had a guy do that to me once who was obviously just being a dick trying to pull a power move. So I put my hand on his forearm and gave it a very sensual stroke while flashing my eyebrows at him in a sexy way. He withdrew that arm right quick and avoided me after that. Probably started fearing for the safety of his butthole around me.

(also, I checked out that Fassbender clip at 30:36. Looks like the two guys are just standing there talking in the kitchen? I didn’t see any touch. Skipped ahead to 31-something and they were still just talking and then the clip ended)

In more social situations where I’m dealing with the guy repeatedly, and he is a big “dominance toucher”, I just mirror that back to him. This is another way of trolling him (but less overtly mocking than the “gay stroke and eyebrow flash”). He slaps you on the back to say hello? Whenever you walk in a room where he is, slap him on the back: “Ayo! How’s my man doing?” He punches you in the arm for jokes? Punch HIM in the arm for jokes! IME after a few rounds of this these types of guys cool it on the excessive touch. It is not something you have to do forever. They get the hint soon enough.

Chase

Thanks for making the effort to see the movie clip. He does touch his ass in that scene... Lobo saw it too! It's at the very very start of the clip... just when it changes from showing Jeffy (the narrator) to the scene he's talking about. Jeffy didn't seem to notice it either!

Percentage wise, it's very unlikely that when one person touches another that they are intending to fight, and I'd hoped that people knew that that is a different subject area to this thread.

 

[Dash of Englishness]

Whats with this fascination about dissecting that movie scene you keep bringing it up multiple times lol

Have you seen Lobo's post? He's basically saying that the solution to tackling this problem ISN'T to focus how on standing up for yourself if it happens, but instead make sure it NEVER happens to you in the first place, by focusing on your "body movements", having a deep voice, and strong physical presence!!! What's wrong with just having the body movements and voice of an average guy? Does that not mean I can't stand up for myself.

I asked him how come that happened in the movie scene (to a guy with good physique and body movements) and he answers me by saying that it happened because Fassbender had his "back turned while at and angle where his ass was extended"??!! I don't even know what Lobo is even saying there. Am I not allowed to turn my back, or pick something up off the ground ever again? Lobo also avoids my point by saying oh they're just following the script.

It's terrible advice from him, because we all enter scenarios where our status and confidence will vary. I asked what would he have done in the Fassbender scenario, and he of course disappears!

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Thanks for making the effort to see the movie clip. He does touch his ass in that scene... Lobo saw it too! It's at the very very start of the clip... just when it changes from showing Jeffy (the narrator) to the scene he's talking about. Jeffy didn't seem to notice it either!

Ηey just saw the video as well. I think 30:26 is a better mark, I was also looking at the later part of their conversation and was confused.

I do agree with the second point Lobo made. These guys clearly have an established relationship where the boss is the more dominant party and can get away with such stuff. And that is the fault of Fassbender's character. Since it is not their first interaction it's probable this thing started slowly. Maybe with other dominant touches like shoulder holding, headlock hugging, backslapping and it escalated to this.

The thing is that simply accepting all the moves and doing nothing in return cements him as the submissive in this interaction, basically allowing the boss to use him however he wants. And no I don't think you should ever allow even someone with clear power over you to treat you like that.

Now I have never had a situation with a boss figure acting in similar way, but I would say you still have to impose your boundaries. And doing it early is the best solution, check the camel's nose metaphor as well. And what Lobo says is connected to that. If you have a more dominant and strong presence from the get go, people would think twice of invading your personal space.

The weaker you look the more people will feel allowed to take advantage of you, that's life. So in these situations you have to be firm. And if you get slapped at the butt you have to confront the guy calmly. If you don't, you basically accept it. James D gave a very good example of how to go about it.

And something last regarding the scene, I don't think that Fassbender's character carried himself well enough there. To me it feels like after the butt slap he immediately turned around saw the boss, and his reaction was like: "ah it's you boss? cool you can butt slap me all you want of course." He continued moving his head back and forth in a jittery way, never stood up straight or gave direct eye contact, while the boss had a pretty predatory underlook directly facing him.

The whole vibe feels a bit like the boss scolding him, setting him straight, and telling him what he expects from him in a not very forceful, but clearly dominant way. And I'm pretty sure Fassbender is a good enough actor that he intended to do all the little things in this scene to perfectly portray the submissive role.