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FR+  Did I Screw Up Yet Again?

NinjaDandy

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Nov 18, 2014
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Of all the material I've seen out there, Chase's resonates with me the most, so I can only assume the community that follows his blog is also on the same page. Right off the bat, I’ll admit that I've only been tenuously following the seduction community for more than a decade, and while I have picked up a few good tips here and here, I’ve never dedicated a lot of time fully educating myself in all its intricacies. After years of going my own way and having much more failure than success, coupled with the very recent revelation that I'm not getting any younger, I’m trying to overcome my listlessness and am making a more concerted effort toward getting this part of my life handled once and for all.

To this end, I met a young lady this past Saturday night at a friend of a friend’s birthday gathering at a bar and pretty much busted her balls and had her laughing like crazy the entire time. Honestly, I don't think we know a single thing about each other's personal lives... the whole interaction was just nonstop cocky and funny nonsense talk. So one thing leads to another then suddenly we wound up at a nearby dance club, making out and enjoying each other’s company. I'm pretty certain she was sober enough to know what was happening. Curiously, she insisted on buying me and my other friends’ drinks and vehemently refused my reciprocation to buy her the next round as if I had tried to slap her mother in mouth with my penis.

Unfortunately, the club closed not too long after things were heating up and we had to leave. At several points on the walk to the subway she asked me where I was going and I told I was going home and in turn I asked her where she was going (home) but I if didn’t know better (because usually I don’t) it seemed like she was kind of stalling as if she wanted to ask her to come over to my place and see my prized collection of coffee table books.

Now, it should be noted that I’ve never been in a situation where I’ve made out with a woman on the very same night we’ve met and in my experience, having one night stands (in the sense that I’ve had a previous interaction with a woman either in person or an online dating site and had sex with her on the night of the first date) pretty much kills any chance of seeing her again and I’m honestly interested in having this particular girl stay around for a while and see where things go.

Getting back to the interaction, we finally reached a junction where our respective paths diverged, exchanged more silly banter and made out a little more. While she was still laughing and seemed to be having fun, I noticed she was a little more fidgety than she was inside the club and I asked her if she was nervous and gave me a cute, shy smile in response.

I told her I’d like to see her again and asked her what her schedule was like for the week, but then shit got weird… she said is around next weekend, but her SISTER(!) was coming to town, implying that we’d all be hanging out together at another bar, then she said something to the effect that her sister was like 18x more awesome than she is and when I meet her I’ll forget all about our little tryst and go after her instead. I laughed it off and chalked it up to the nature of our ball-bustathon but it was certainly a WTF moment I was ill-prepared to handle.

Obviously, I only want to hang out with her and her alone, but I didn’t want to seem like a jerk and disregard an opportunity to see this girl again, even with a familial third wheel and a week is long enough to let the flames burn low, let alone two or more seeing as how next week is Thanksgiving and she might already have other family plans… all assuming she wasn’t already trying to blow me off in that charming, subtle way that girls do. I agreed to her plan with trepidation and she entered her number into my phone.

I then offered to walk her to her subway station as it was damn near 5am Sunday morning and she had more than a few blocks away to go, but she insisted she would be fine… but then she mentioned with a smile, how I was so “really mean” to her early in the night, but expressed some level of disdain how I was being all “chivalrous” and “gentlemanly” after we made out.

I saw her off a few step and texted “It’s ‘myRealName’. See you next week you, *inside joke name*!”

She didn’t reply.

What should my next move be? Do you feel she was only looking for a hookup/one night stand and I’m out of the game?

The toll of constant failure has left me quite cynical, and I find myself mulling over the most insignificant details of my interactions with women. Even in the rare times I AM successful in some part of the game, I can't appreciate these victories for what they are and I'm always paranoid, waiting to see how the woman is trying to play me, a perspective that I've no doubt is further encumbering my success. Thanks in advance for reading!
 

Howell

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
189
Re: FR+/FU?: Did I Screw Up Yet Again?

Howdy NinjaDandy,

Welcome to the forum! Fun reading your post; you're clearly a witty guy -- too bad it didn't pan out how you'd hoped. I think you're on the money with the kissing her making her put up her defenses thing. It sounds like you either missed some escalation windows or you satisfied her desire for attention and she grew tired. Maybe a combination of both.

Also, after getting any higher level of compliance from a girl -- like making out, for example -- it's super important to not make it seem like a big deal and be consistent afterwards to how you were before. It's the same with sex -- after sex you want to act more or less in the same way as before, if only perhaps a little warmer. She may have interpreted your acting chivalrous afterwards as you thinking you were "in". Girls don't like that, and they'll usually slam on the breaks hard if they think you're thinking "I've got her!" (as an aside: you never fully have a girl). Sounds like auto-rejection at the end there where she got annoyed at you for not being as dominant and playful as you were before you kissed her, where she was complaining that you weren't being as "mean" (aka challenging) as you were at the start of the interaction. She was probably annoyed that you weren't leading more aggressive.

So the biggest lessons I'd take from this are: be more consistent with a girl throughout the escalation process, you need to be moving faster, and also, if you're starting to feel cynical about women, it'd probably be better to focus more on day game than night game (if you're not already), as girls during the day have lower guards and are going to be on less of a hairline trigger than they are at nighttime venues or online. This also probably reinforces for you that it's usually not the best strategy to make out with a girl before you get her to the escalation location, eh?

Howell
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

NinjaDandy

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Nov 18, 2014
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Re: FR+/FU?: Did I Screw Up Yet Again?

Hey there, Howell! Thanks for the compliment and taking the time to craft such a thoughtful and edifying response!

I’m totally with you on the compliance concept in theory but my personal experience has shown me that when a girl likes me and expresses romantic/sexual interest, continued ball busting tends to drive them away. Maybe I push bit too much not enough pull…warmer as you say?

Might I ask for clarity on a few points such as “auto-rejection”? How is that different than regular, ol’ unleaded rejection? Also, ever since I’ve read Chase’s blog the concept of moving faster has been my dogma but I’m not entirely sure how to move any faster than I did in this particular case. There might have 4 or 5 hours tops from the time I met this girl to the time we were making out, and I didn’t only engage her the entire time. Finally what/where is the “escalation location”? I thought making out (passionate kissing, by my definition) was appropriate at the club, but I am I wrong and should have tried to bring her to my place first?

As for day game, incidentally I’ve JUST received a copy of RooshV’s Day Bang yesterday (I hope mentioning rival PUAs and their products is legal around here) after coming to a similar conclusion you put forth about making the game easier for both my esteem and resolve.

At the end of the day, I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t try to pursue this woman one more time despite my shortcomings in our interaction… I mean we DID make out after all and while I realize that doesn’t necessarily mean much, I reached a major rung on the kino ladder that most guys are going for, and I’ve gotta believe it counts for something in her mind! If there is any chance at all to salvage this mess, even its just a snowball’s chance in you know where… how would you recommend I go about it?
Thanks so much!
 

Howell

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
189
Re: FR+/FU?: Did I Screw Up Yet Again?

Yeah, it's definitely a balance, and it's different for each girl too -- you don't want to bust their balls too much, but you don't want to be a push over either. Fundamentally, the issue that's at the core of what you're dealing with is probably that of calibrating your attainability. And actually, this is relevant to your question about auto-rejection, so let's talk about this by talking about that!

Auto-rejection is rejection based on a problem of attainability. Either you are too easy or too hard to get, and a girl closes off because of either extreme -- on the one side a guy is gamey and inauthentic, on the other he's just a pushover.

In your situation, I read it as you were playing hard to get at first (sounds like it was at a good level, since you did end up making out), and then after the kiss she maybe saw you as a bit too easy, at which point she auto-rejected because of both your inconsistency and your now becoming too attainable. Much of the intrigue was thus axed. Here's an article that looks at this specific type of rejection in depth: https://www.girlschase.com/content/secre ... -rejection

If you're not familiar with the concept of attainability -- it is rather counter-intuitive -- I'd say that it actually is one of the core things a guy needs to focus on once he's gotten past the honeymoon "just discovered that I can systematically work on this" phase, as being aware of it is a big step towards understanding why people act certain ways around you.


Can you get her back? Probably not. Shoot her another text, and if no go, move along and meet more girls! ;)

https://www.girlschase.com/content/cant- ... more-girls

And just as a reminder (this article always gets me in a good mindset):

https://www.girlschase.com/content/attra ... ation-date


And as for kissing at clubs and in public, I can't find the article that talks about that unfortunately, so I'll just sum it up here:

The idea is basically that though it's fun and not always bad, it does give girls emotional validation (and too much of that and they won't want to have sex anymore, cuz they already got what they came for) and, yes, it can put them in auto-rejection because now they "know" they have you. So basically it's not usually that great for the power dynamic, as she can easily interpret it as chasing. Also, she had this peak of emotion, and then afterwards she will drop back down and oftentimes her logic will then kick back in and she'll explicitly decide not to sleep with you, as the topic's been implicitly breached. So I guess another way of putting it is that it can raise some flags for them and take away some of the mystery, as well as some of her plausible deniability.

You have to think about why girls go out to these kinds of places in the first place -- usually it's more just to experience a lot of positive emotions and "have fun" than it is a logical decision to find a mate, like it is more likely to be for guys. Hot girls don't have trouble finding guys to bang, so they're more focused on getting emotional validation (subconsciously, of course), especially from high value guys. Though, if you're cool, challenging, fun, and a smooth leader, they'll still usually be down to come home with you. Though personally, I'm usually too lazy for club game -- just too much effort when there are plenty of easier ways to meet girls where there's less competition and they're less bipolar. Though of course, it is good practice for dealing with all sorts of crazy shit girls will pull, and if you get good at picking up girls from clubs and bars, the rest of the stuff they throw at you will seem like an underhand toss.

Hope that addresses some of your questions,

Howell
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
492
Re: FR+/FU?: Did I Screw Up Yet Again?

this is a good read


what howell said is spot on. i will add

yeah this girl wanted to get fucked there and then. she wanted the cocky bad-boy you were at the start of the night, the guy teasing her and making her laugh. the gentleman you turned into wasn't sexy for her. but you still could've invited her home and fucked her. you should have. she will have lost respect to you for not at least trying to get into her knickers.

you said having one-night-stands kills the chances of seeing each other again. in fact, that's mostly up to you. if you're judgmental about a girl sleeping with you so soon, then she won't want to see you again, because you made her feel bad for doing that. if you encourage her and show her it's ok to be open with her sexuality, then she'll do it soon and often, providing you are discreet, and not needy, and non-judgmental, of course.

"Honestly, I don't think we know a single thing about each other's personal lives... the whole interaction was just nonstop cocky and funny nonsense talk."

this is part of the problem, at first you were just flirting and joking, don't know anything about each other, perfect for a 1 night fling, (which can easily be turned into fuckbuddy if you want) then at the end of the night, you haven't provided what you were selling, and because you know nothing about each other there's no emotional connection, no reason for her to want to see you again. you're just some guy who was fun at the time, good enough to fuck.

the only thing you can do now is DO NOTHING

don't try to follow up but if she contacts you again, take it from there. and look on the bright side, she might not be lying about the sister. i say, if you get the invite, take it! go hang out with the two of them, and blatantly hit on the sister





the end of your mail sounds pretty desperate, don't lose hope brother. keep reading chase and posting up reports and questions. you're right in your assumptions about the girlschase community, you're in the right place.


EDIT

girls aren't trying to play you, brother, they're just seeing what you can offer. offer them a fun time and you'd be surprised how many will hop on for the ride. just don't offer anything else ;-)
the trick is to realize, and KNOW, that you're in charge. they're just girlsto you, they can't hurt you all they can do is make you smile at how cute and silly they are. that might sound retarded to some people reading but if you can master that mentality then it becomes you playing them, or rather playing each other, only your game leads to a more pleasurable outcome for the both of you, and is the game she really wanted to play, anyway
 
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