Do Chase Frames Just Not Work With Some Girls?

[Doctor]

So in the spirit of experimentation I have been out in field testing a few things. One of them was chase framing and just general teasing/push pull etc. I have noticed a pattern; I just cannot seem to get it to work on some girls. I mean I know I am not perfectly smooth with it yet but with some girls it seems to fail 100% of the time and even with things I am terrible at I can usually succeed at least some of the time!

My data would suggest that most of these girls who don't respond to playful teasing and chase framing are younger inexperienced girls. Also older girls who are very insecure.

Maybe I am missing something here but it seems every time I tease theses types of girls or suggest they are chasing me, even if I make it very clear that I am joking, they pull away. It seems they seek constant validation and chase frames and playful teasing threaten this.

So is there an effective way to use chase frames with these types of girls? And if not, how should I change my game plan accordingly?

 

[Ross]

Can you define "fail", or perhaps give an example of what goes wrong?

I know plenty of girls that can have bad reactions to chase framing.. Especially if it is against their current mindset. She could very well be thinking, "The nerve! He's the one chasing after me."

But the whole reason that chase frames are used is to introduce that frame. If she's just not biting on it, she's usually resisting what you've said. In any case, this is still a good thing, as it re-introduces the concept that you want her to follow. Interestingly, you're also swaying her subconscious. You're introducing an idea to her that her mind has just processed as the concept that she is chasing after you. However, this will build over time rather than an instant result.

The pull away could be because they accept the frame, but don't want to be the one chasing. They pull back because you're supposed to be chasing them.. Not them after you. The key is to bring them back and build them back up, as chasing can feel like a neg to some girls.

 

[Flames]

Two things come to mind, either your doing it 'wrong' or they were already chasing.

It can be very difficult to tell if they're already 'chasing' it can be something subtle such as body language or eye contact. If they're already doing some element of chasing asking them to chase more is going to be too much.

Can you give an example of what sort of things you were testing out?

 

[PinotNoir]

I agree with Ross's subconscious assessment based on my own (limited) results. To be transparent, I still do not incorporate enough framing in my interactions, and my results are primarily from dates with women (from 1st date to last).

Usually, I cross the line (as I don't have enough experience built up), so it's pretty obvious what I'm alluding too. The example below is crossing that line.

Either way, this a typical response from an inexperienced and/or conservative/reserved girl. (A woman can be 45 and still inexperienced if low sexual partner count.)

"Hey, what's new?"
"It is raining today I got so wet."
"Nothing new there. You're always wet around me. "
"No I'm not!"

You'll get very direct responses, usually with "no." In person, I'm actually able to gauge a girl's response better based on facial cues, voice pitch, and blushing so that I can be less deterred from a "no" and keep pressing forward.

Again, this is when I'm on a date with a girl. I'm sure chase/sexual framing works wonders on first encounters, but I rarely do it (but need to). Instead, I usually remember during dates and use it then. So what happens next?

Well, for experienced guys, this can usually turn into sex if they can read her non-verbal cues correctly and hit escalation windows, etc., etc.

For me....

Let's say this was a text/skype/fb/email conversation. Even though she said "no".... the next day, there would almost always be a noticeable difference in her demeanor. It's like she had time to mull it over and fantasize about us together overnight. It's actually pretty remarkable.

If it's in person when I say this, she doesn't get hot/excited right away, but after 5-10 min or so, I'd start to notice changes in nervousness and silence and indirectly getting closer to me.

To be honest, I don't date a lot of experienced girls, but I imagine most of those interactions go like this where she plays along:

"Hey, what's new?"
"It is raining today I got so wet."
"Nothing new there. You're always wet around me. "
"Oh, you like me when I'm wet, huh?"
"It depends on how slipper you are." (or something better)
(Continued back-and-forth banter/flirtation/teasing/foreplay....)

As far as why it didn't work for you? If she's inexperienced/reserved/conservative, then I think you have to keep warming her up. Or, if she really doesn't like you, then you may be screwed no matter what you do.

Based on Chase's article, I think there are a few main points:

- Make it about her chasing you or you 2 doing something together (you want her to subconsciously/consciously being fantasizing about the 2 of you or about you)
- Make it positive and (sexually) fun/humorous
- Avoid being too direct
- Make it obvious that you're being playful with her (facial cues or a in a text)

I'd really re-read Chase's article and try find out what you did wrong (if anything):
https://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-chase-framing

Some bad examples:

This is putting the frame on another guy (not yourself):
"I like his banana."
"Oh, you like his banana, huh? Maybe he'll let you hold it. "

I think this is too direct (note that this could possibly work with a GF; the closer you 2 are, the more you can get away with I've found out):
"I like his banana."
"I have a banana in my pants too. If you're hungry, I'll let you peel it with your tongue."

 

[Flames]

Just going from that example.

"Hey, what's new?"
"It is raining today I got so wet."
"Oh? I like it when your wet"

The way you did it doesn't work because she's already associated that with something bad that happened to her today.

I wouldn't even bring a chase frame into it at that point. Chase frames are great but you can't just use them whenever you feel like it.

 

[Doctor]

Hmmm specific examples, yes, here is one from yesterday.

Funny thing is that she had been giving me major attraction indications just moments previous. For example in the line to buy our drinks I stood directly behind her. She leaned back into my chest, I put my arms around her waist and she pushed her butt into my crotch hard. So that's a massive sign of interest right? I mean girls don't do that to their friends, even I know that!

Then comes the failed chase frame:

We were outside the coffee shop sat in a booth and the conversation died so I decided to stay silent and use social pressure to get her to fill the gap. I just sat there (we were side by side) and looked at her with a "whenever you're ready" sort of look. She still didn't engage so I gave her a light jab in the ribs to prompt her into action and she responded by doing the same back to me. Anyway I am embarrassingly ticklish so when she did this I sort of balled up and started laughing. She carried on touching me all over and by this time she was laughing her head off (I think she was really enjoying finding my weak spot and having some power over me). Anyway after she was done I said "You know you are going to have to stop flirting with me so hard or we are going to get thrown out!". I thought this was brilliant chase framing if I am honest but nope, quick as a flash she changed, her face dropped and she didn't respond well to any more kino after that.

Second example was a successful one (I will keep it short as I know we are all busy people!):

Basically she turned up for a coffee date already clutching a half finished coffee in a cardboard take away cup. I said to her something along the lines of "Krikey (yes I'm English!), you must bee keen to skip the formalities!" and, long story short, we did skip most of the formalities.

The only difference I know of? The first girl was young and inexperienced and the second was older and definitely had an air of I know what I am doing about her.

Come to think of it there were a couple of other differences. I am pretty hard in the boyfriend zone with the first girl and there is a big age gap, nigh on 10 years, do you think this matters?

Anyway I am scheduled for a date with the first girl again in a couple days (trying this date compression thing due to the aforementioned boyfriend zone problem) and I don't want to kill the mood again like that.

Is it safe to say I should focus on kino (she seems to really enjoy touching!) and just lead it to a place where we can be alone? I should forget chase frames and teasing all together? I just cannot seem to get them to work with girls like this :/

Cheers for the help!

 

[Doctor]

Hmm maybe you are right Ross, maybe I am just not building them back up well enough after the frame. It's just all the fun seemed to drop from the interaction after that first example, is there anything I could have said after to sort of 'soften the blow'?

And maybe it was due to the age gap? She sort of seemed to take it as a bit of a telling off, which wasn't how I meant it, could this be due to the age gap?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Doctor,

Noting what Ross stated, some girls might be turn off by it because it looks like neg. I honestly believe if chase frames doesn't work, It's compliance stacking all the way.

I perceive some girls have this "let's not make things too complicated. just get this over and done with".

p.s Oh talking about this, one girl once asked, she thought if guys wants to sleep with her because they were asking "Are you asleep?". (Women can genuinely be confused about all sorts of things)

Zac

 

[Doctor]

Hmmm interesting point Zac!

Yeah I get the feeling from these girls that they are actually crazy interested but when I try to escalate or use a chase frame to point it out they just don't want to admit it.

I sort of liken it to a girl who really wants to do a bungee jump but it's her first time. She keeps going right to the edge and getting ready to jump but then it all becomes too real and she backs off. She knows it will be amazing but just cannot get over the edge. I think my chase framing and teasing may just be reminding her that she is about to jump off a 200ft bridge and it just makes her back off again.

If this is the case, as I am beginning to suspect it often is with these girls, any advice for what I can do to smoothly 'push her over the edge' without scaring her off first?

EDIT: Come to think of it I am in the boyfriend zone with a lot of the girls who are like this with me. I think maybe I am pushing them too hard too early? Is it possible to have a first date without any real teasing or chase framing, so long as you are using date compression? Maybe introduce it on the second or third date, use the first one to just get her comfortable and take the edge off?

 

[Franco]

Doc,

As a side note, since it wasn't mentioned, I just wanted to add: the girl may just not be interested in you.

Imagine if a really fat chick came up to you and put on her sexiest, elite chase frames to try to make you chase her... do you think it would help? Probably not.

That's an extreme example, but the idea is that you can't chase frame a girl if she isn't sexually excited about you. Remember, it's still a number game, so you need to properly chase frame the girls who are into you and then move things forward.

- Franco

 

[Doctor]

Good point Franco. I tend to think that every girl likes me these days, which I know is not possible but I am getting an ego from dating some really hot girls lately! Point taken on-board!

I do know that gauging interest levels is probably one of my worst skills right now and something I need to work on, however, if she is out on a date with me, and doing things like I mentioned about in the line at the coffee store (she was literally rubbing her ass on my crotch in broad daylight), isn't it a safe bet to say she is at least somewhat interested? When I think back I can remember girls I tried to chase frame and they just weren't interested, awks! However sometimes everything else is going great, then I introduce chase frames or teasing and just kill the mood, could this still be lack of interest? Like I said kino is great, eye contact, deep connection, everything, just my chase frames kill it!

Really have no idea what is going on here, like I said the only constants I keep returning are age, experience and perhaps the boyfriend zone... Confused!

 

[NarrowJ]

Hmm maybe you are right Ross, maybe I am just not building them back up well enough after the frame. It's just all the fun seemed to drop from the interaction after that first example, is there anything I could have said after to sort of 'soften the blow'?

And maybe it was due to the age gap? She sort of seemed to take it as a bit of a telling off, which wasn't how I meant it, could this be due to the age gap?

Hey Doctor,

I have experienced this exact same phenomenon and had started a thread, which can be found here. Chase and a few others share insight.

Hope it's useful
NJ

 

[Doctor]

Thanks for the link NarrowJ, it was really insightful!

My experiences seem to tally with yours however I seem to experience the same problems you mention having over text with younger girls when in person as well. When I frame or tease a younger girl in person they go guarded and it kills momentum. I suspect that my problem may be that I am making it too obvious or being too serious about it. I guess if I was really obviously negging or teasing in person it would face similar problems as if it was in a text; they realise clearly what's going on and push back against it.

I think I am going to trial being a lot more subtle in my teasing/framing this weekend. Any good advice on how to do this? I am struggling to think how to be sexual without being too obvious, I mean, I know not to be crude and start talking about cocks or anything. Is it all in the delivery? Maybe it's not what I am saying but how I am saying it?

EDIT: I remember a chase frame which worked well with a younger girl; she opened her handbag near me and the strap hit my leg, I looked at her with a cheeky smile and said "If you are going to start whipping me you could at least buy me a drink first..." She giggled and the cutest grin spread across her face! Come to think of it I said that in a low whisper so only the two of us could hear even though we were in a crowded venue, I bet that helped!

Any other suggestions for subtle chase frames, or tips on the delivery? Looking forward to trying these changes out!

 

[Flames]

Ok my thoughts on your examples.

Firstly yes, girls sometimes do that sort of thing, they do it because they know it gets you going and stopping it gives them a sort of power. It's a common cock tease tactic.

In the first example you created sexual tension, which is good. Then you completely destroyed it by being 'cocky funny'. Wrong tactic.... A long lingering kiss etc would have been a better move.

Second example you stayed in the frame and continued...