FU Dropped the Ball While on the Bus

[Troy]

I got the second date with Jody today. We were to meet at 10am. I send a anti flake text.

Troy (8:48am )GM. I'm running a little late. I'll be at limelight by 10:20

She doesn't reply and I'm still at home. Tuesday she flaked on me and had me waiting 3 hours. To make sure she doesn't flake I send a next text.

Troy (9:17am )About what time you'll be in hwt ?

She sent a message saying I should call and I did. I told her I wouldn't be in hwt till 10:20.

When I arrive at hwt limelight I call her and tell her to come where I am. She does. We grab a seat under the food court and talk for a hour. The conversation was quite interesting. I joke around a bit I'm between deep diving and relating.

At the one hour mark I ask about her logistics

Troy : So what do you plan to do after we leave here?

Jody : Well I'm not staying here the whole day. I don't know, maybe go look for my sister in Spain town ( my hometown).

Troy : ( looking for better logistics) how's your place? Since you like to smoke let's go there and build some weed.

Jody : The fare back there is $12

Troy : ( quite expensive but I believe her.. though she could be lying) OK so who do you live with?

Jody : My grandma

Blah blah ( I'm struggling to remember the conversation after I smoked that cigar.... Strange )

I excuse myself and tell her I'm going outside the plaza real quick and I'll be back soon.

Troy : Be right back

Jody : Can I come?

Troy : Stay

Jody : Suppose I'm robbed by muggers ?

Troy : lol no one will rob you

Jody: So why you can't take me with you?

Troy : I'm going to do something real quick

Jody : If they rob me I'll blame you

Troy : No problem ( she laughs)

When I reach outside I call my friend D'jean and ask him if I can borrow his place to try and bang Jody. He says " sure but I'm on the road. Just give me a hour and I'll be home. "

I come back and joke around

Troy: Lucky you weren't robbed .

Jody : Lol as yet. You are weird

Troy : ( ignoring that by laughing ) What are you buying for lunch ? You've been telling me your hungry the past 10 minutes

Jody : I feel for a burger

More chit chat for 10 minutes .
Me and Jody go get lunch at Burger King by 12noon. Afterwards we fluff talk there. I was starting to freeze up. It felt like I was running out of conversation topics. So I get in a little silence and to relax I play a game on my phone and she takes out her phone and snapchats. I was totally cool with this because I had nothing to say.

We chill some more till she mentions going out and getting some weed and cigars
. I buy some across the road and we walk back to limelight ( 5 minutes). We get seats, I give her the lighter and we share a single cigar.

PS. it's my first time smoking. I can't believe I did it just to get Jody to " like me more ". bad idea. She tells me I do it like an amateur. I laugh it off and puff smoke at her. She laughs. ( No I didn't confess to her it's my first time smoking, I didn't want to look soft )

We talk about getting drinks and rum and I deep dive her on favorite mixes and rums. I suggest we get some more cigars and head over to her sisters house ( in Spain town, my hometown). I thought I could convince her to chill with me.

Troy: Let's go to your sisters house and smoke and chill

Jody: OK but not sure if my sister will be cool with it.

Troy : You could ask her

Jody: Ok

Troy: Let's go

We leave limelight and walk 5 minutes to get a bus. We had to take the back seats since the rest of the bus was full. I let her sit in the corner and I sit beside. I totally didn't know what to say and she looked really uncomfortable.

I took out my phone and pretended to text ( actually reading over texts ). 5 minutes after I decide I should try keep the conversation going so I'd be able to get her back to my friends place.

The conversation was really awkward with silences, and she giving short replies. I asked about college and told her about my school ( I know lots of boring talk just to try and keep away awkward silences.)

Troy : I know a cool place in town. Let's go there and you come back to your sisters house later.

Jody: I want to sleep ( she starts pulling away from me and closer to the window )

Troy: ( I avoid touching her and keep calm) It won't be long. Like 30 minutes

Jody : I'm coming off at the next bus stop right with that lady

Troy : I was really looking forward to smoking that weed with you. I'm disappointed. Let's meet up next week

Jody: Ok and I won't be coming back to the fashion show

Troy : ( might as well I try plan the next date while I'm still with her before I lose ) When next week?

Jody : I'll let you know

Troy : I work the rest of this week and part next week ( sigh why did I lie. I'm unemployed... Except the rare times I get a odd job to do a days work. I wanted to look busy and not be too available to her )

Jody : OK sometime we'll plan that

Troy: OK ( bus stop)

Jody : ( Gets up and attempts to pass me and get off the bus )

Troy : Sure I can't chill with you please.

She gets off the bus without telling me bye.

I looked back when the bus drove off and could tell she was nervous. Sigh I was about 10 minutes from getting to my friends place to seal the deal with Jody.

What happened? I tried persisting and answering her objections while we were at limelight. Guys I was so high that I can't remember the conversation unfortunately . I suspect the major problems were I failed to keep a cool fun conversation while in the bus, I didn't ask to go to her sisters house in a way she would say yes. Maybe if I kept her more engaged on the bus she wouldn't talk about wanting to sleep and would have accompanied me to my friends house . I think the ending was too needy on my part .

Should I continue to text her?

A hour after I whatsapp her

Troy: Hey. everything good?

Jody: yea

I leave it at that. I still went over my friends house and told him what happened. We laughed it off. Later his other friend, Chadwick came and I told him what happened too .They suggest that if I was man enough I call her now and tell her to come check me . Conversation basically went like

Troy : Hey Everything good ?

Jody : Yeah

Troy : I'm in Spain town. Come check me now?

Jody: I'm on my way to the fashion show

Troy : It won't be long. Just come to Spain town

Jody: I don't have a reason to come there

Troy : OK enjoy the fashion show

Jody : Ok

Troy : Bye

Jody : Yeah

I hung up. My friends listened to the conversation again ( I have a automatic call recording app). They said her voice tone alone said she wasn't up to meeting me and that Jody already knew my intentions .

D'jean : The girl ain't stupid . She knows you want to fuck her. She probably thought you wanted to rape her off

PS. These two friends know their game and I'm observing them. Each has girls coming over to their house every week without them taking the girls on dates. I've seen it. 2 to 3 new girls a week. I realize the single biggest issue why I dropped the ball was my logistics sucked .If the bus ride was shorter and I had a place in hwt ,it's more guaranteed once she stepped through my door I'd bang her. Right now I'm not working and I'm broke so don't see how I'm going to " plan to save this situation ". I don't think it makes sense I meet Jody again only to run out of steam and still not have a apartment to bring her back to and fuck. Should I next her?

Troy

 

[Metalus]

To me it kinda felt like your bad logistics really messed up with you there. Your report
sounds like you have been thinking "how do i get her to a place to fuck her ?" the whole time.
You shouldnt focus that much on your logistics. Just have a good nice date and
get some kissing if the logistics arent fine. Propose to cook at your house and
get it from there on your next date.

Ur still in a mindset where u need to keep a "cool and fun conversation". You dont
need to be an entertainer. Always remember when she meets up with you for a date
she likes you and/or is attracted to you. Of course u dont want to be boring sitting there
saying nothing the whole time. But remember u dont need to impress her with the "cool
stuff you are doing". Instead focus on her. Ask/talk with her about the things she likes.
People feel connected to other people when they talk about themself - not when they hear
other people talking (about themselves).

I will try to give my 2cents on two points of the conversation:
She wont fuck you because you are smoking. Being honest could have led to a conversation like this:
her:"you look like an amateur"
you:"well its my first time "
her: "you are joking / or just a really?"
you: "yeah but i like trying new things so why not give it a try?"
her: "thats a cool attitude - so do you like it?"
you: "well i guess im doing it wrong ? *smile* "
her: "yeah you should...."
she explains maybe talks about her first cigarette or whatever... that could actually lead to a bunch
of positive emotions that she is connecting with you.
When she says "you look like an amateur" she actually knows you are not smoking regularly - there is no value
pretending to do so. Maybe she thinks its cute (u doing it because of her) but thats about it.


My other point:
"So what do you plan to do after we leave here? "
Thats actually playing the ball in her court. On that crucial question you should not ask that.
From my experience she wont say: "Well we could go to my house and watch a movie". Thats like an invitation
to have sex with her - To much to ask a woman for.
As the man you should plan the date from beginning to (possible and prefered) end. That includes logistics. Thats
very important. I once fucked it up when i had her driving home with me for 25 minutes. Instead just let her come
next to your location. Saves up a lot of time in case of flakes. Spares some money for bus/train and at the same time
she is showing interest by doing so. (of course that doesnt work when she has to drive like an hour or so).
When u tried to get her to your friends home you knew that couldnt work. How did you want to get intimate with your buddy being
nearby? How do you want to gently touch her with a guy next door? And does she feel comfortable having sex with you when
someone is around?
If you cant answer all those questions i would say u didnt plan out your date all that well.
No problem. Just fix it the next time.

Id actually recommend u start getting a job and an apartement. Thats gonna help a lot. If thats not possible just ask your friend
before going on the date. Asking him to leave for an hour or so when u text him. You simply cant rely on the womans logistics.

 

[Troy]

To me it kinda felt like your bad logistics really messed up with you there. sounds like you have been thinking "how do i get her to a place to fuck her ?" the whole time. You shouldnt focus that much on your logistics. Just have a good nice date and get some kissing if the logistics arent fine. Propose to cook at your house and
get it from there on your next date.

Chase advised that if there is a kiss and no sex on the same date, it would lower or completely eliminate my chances of seeing xyz girl again. Uhm I think you're saying I could have kissed her that day and planned a next date to cook at my place. Yes my logistics has been the problem and will continue ( unfortunately) till I move from my parents house. It's not the first I lost a good opportunity because of logistics. So why not focus on logistics so much?

She wont fuck you because you are smoking

I don't understand what you're saying here. Please explain? I don't get why she wouldn't fuck me because I was smoking.

When she says "you look like an amateur" she actually knows you are not smoking regularly - there is no value pretending to do so. Maybe she thinks its cute (u doing it because of her) but thats about it.

That sucked, I kinda felt embarrassed when she said that but I kept as best I could a cool composure. I definitely hope she at least found it cute. The good thing is this won't happen again with any other girl or her

Instead just let her come next to your location. Saves up a lot of time in case of flakes. Spares some money for bus/train and at the same time
she is showing interest by doing so. (of course that doesnt work when she has to drive like an hour or so).

She would have to take a bus. So Metalus, how should I ask her to come to my location? Even if its partway. I could then just meet her and get a 5 minutes taxi back to my friends house.

When u tried to get her to your friends home you knew that couldnt work. How did you want to get intimate with your buddy being nearby? How do you want to gently touch her with a guy next door? And does she feel comfortable having sex with you when someone is around?
If you cant answer all those questions i would say u didnt plan out your date all that well.
No problem. Just fix it the next time.

Well it was worth a try. The initial plan was to try and go to her house. It's during the conversation she told me " I'm going to Spain town to look for my sister " that I got the idea I could work with her logistics. And Spain Town is my home town so at the time I thought " it would be much easier to get her to my friends place since she would be going nearby ".

I wouldn't mind getting intimate with Jody while my friend was around. I got intimate with a different girl a few weeks ago at his place and we are cool with it. I don't know if Jody would have been comfortable though. Me and D'jean have a code, when a girl is over there, whichever of us that won't be banging her we'd pretend to be a computer technician upgrading the laptop outside while either me or him is inside banging the girl. That could work? Maybe, maybe not but it worked before.

My apologies if it's a lot of questions. And thanks for the detailed reply

Edit :

Monday Morning Conversation

Troy (9:17am) : Hi Jody. I'm not going to be able to meet you this week. I'm back at hard work so some time in the future, maybe next week or 2 weeks from now. Cool? Everything good? Maybe I'll call you later in the week. Remind me

She hasn't replied. Think I should still call her? I was thinking to use Chase's advice here :

Tactics Tuesday's : Calling Her When Dates Don't Pan Out

Troy

 

[ray_zorse]

In addition to what Metalus said, I really think you're not respecting yourself here, you said she dicked you around previously and made you wait 3 hours in a place and then flaked? MAN, if a girl does that to me SHE'S FUCKING HISTORY, I will allow her maybe half an hour to an hour (for example, if she unexpectedly decides to go home and change before the date, this might be a good sign because she wants to make a good impression, and it will ALWAYS take longer than she thinks)... but if its longer than that I'll probably text her and then go home. If after 3 hours of dicking me around with various texts, she then says she can't make it, I probably just wouldn't even reply to that text. NEXT! But the dynamic I'm getting, is that the more she screws you around, the more you suggest further dates and try to accommodate her. This looks really weak and beta. For example, when she's getting off the bus (when clearly there's no urgent reason, she's just choosing not to be with you), why would you reward this by trying to set up another date? And, when she texted you to call her, doing so looked like compliance. Why can't she call you? Does she have no credit in her phone? It just really looks like she was dicking you around (too lazy even to write a text explaining why she is late).

I also think you're putting too much store by hanging out with "natural" buddies etc, in my opinion this website gives you everything you need to get good with women, you just need to grind it out. I reckon you can surpass your natural buddies in a very short time if you work hard at it. Can you do 10 approaches per day for the next 3 months? The problem you're having at the moment is basically that you see women as a scarce and precious resource, and so once you start investing in a girl (such as Jody), you're deep-down feeling like she's doing you a favour by hanging out with you. There's no one-size-fits-all solution to this. You have to experience what it's like to have lots of women chasing you, but even then, that doesn't really solve the problem if deep-down you lack self-esteem (for example, you weren't encouraged as a child, and you compensated by becoming a pleaser). You have to fix your external game -- watching your own behaviour and analyzing it by FRs like this one, but more importantly CORRECTING it, thing is that in this report I notice you doing things basically the same as what you reported 6 months ago, when I said much the same thing. It's necessary to work hard, but you also have to work SMART. Ask yourself, did I act like a sexy dominant motherfucker here?

Now about the smoking thing, well I presume you're talking about cigarettes not cigars. But DUDE, DO NOT FUCKING FALL INTO THE NICOTINE TRAP! As a high value man you want to be spending your time in the gym building up your body, not poisoning it! I highly recommend that you read this book, it's only $4.56 on Kindle (whereas a packet of cigarettes is $25 here, what country are you in btw?). You do not have to be a smoker to read the book, in fact it is more effective if you are not a smoker. What it does is explain precisely the mechanism by which nicotine addicts you, plus debunks all the stupid things that smokers tell themselves to make smoking okay. I'm a happy ex smoker and I will never go back to it, because I understand nicotine properly thanks to this book. Allan Carr is the Chase Amante of nicotine addiction, he really breaks it down so that you understand the fundamentals of nicotine addiction, and how the pieces fit together to keep you smoking until you die. Weed is not nearly as addictive as nicotine (but is harmful in other ways as it can make you paranoid), but is often mixed with nicotine so the weed smoker THINKS he's addicted to weed when it's actually the nicotine.

As to your logistics I can't really help you there. Bboy100 had a thread about this a while ago when he was living with his parents. Actually, I think the best thing you could possibly do, is try to get your parents on board, so you can pull girls home to your place without any problems. I remember being 16 and the biggest problem with pulling girls home was basically in my head, I didn't want my parents to know, and I felt my family would laugh at me if they knew I was interested in girls. (I had a similar issue with alcohol, I was going out and drinking at mates' places on a frequent basis, yet I would never drink wine or beer with a meal at home, even though my parents would've been fine with it). Looking back, this was completely stupid. Okay, so I get your parents may be conservative, but honestly what could they really do? How could they reasonably punish you for bringing a friend over and hanging in your bedroom? Just tell your parents you're friends and leave it at that. Whilst girls might not be super thrilled with this arrangement, they're about your age too, so they're very familiar with the issue, they won't think harshly of you. Alternatively, can you get a driving licence and bang her in the car? (Here the driving age is 18 but it's younger in other places). Or, find parks, basements, etc?

Ray

 

[Metalus]

Chase advised that if there is a kiss and no sex on the same date, it would lower or completely eliminate my chances of seeing xyz girl again. Uhm I think you're saying I could have kissed her that day and planned a next date to cook at my place. Yes my logistics has been the problem and will continue ( unfortunately) till I move from my parents house. It's not the first I lost a good opportunity because of logistics. So why not focus on logistics so much?

You should focus on logistics before the date. Not during the date (get a plan B if something goes wrong). Relying on her logistics is like Plan C i guess.
If I remember correctly Chase said going in for a kiss in a night venue when she is probably just trying to get
validation from you wont lead to sex so instead grap her number and get her out on a date (might be wrong here). He generally advises moving fast and trying to get sex on the first date. But if u cant go for it for some reason i still think doing something is better than nothing. I mean there is a lot of discussion about even going on a second and a third date in this forum. In general your goal should always be "sex on first date" if you want a LTR it still sets the pace of you being a sexual lover and if you just want to have fun for a night its obviously better on the first date then having to wait for 2,3, or more dates.
But as a beginner who doesnt get like 3-4 new numbers every week and goes on 2-3 dates every week, who doesnt have a good and proven "plan" on how to get intimate and have sex,
who just has this one girl he is seeing right now, who is just starting to learn and improve.
Do you think you are "wasting your time" on a second date? I dont think so. Still having a decent first date (which includes kissing or some kind of touching; at least for me) is okay.
If you are advanced - the date went all "your way" but for some reason she didnt want to have sex - chances are there wont be a second date (she just wasnt that into you) or she expects you to be boyfriend material (not your goal?).
In that case going for a second date would probably be a waste of time.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Please explain? I don't get why she wouldn't fuck me because I was smoking. When she says "you look like an amateur" she actually knows you are not smoking regularly - there is no value pretending to do so. Maybe she thinks its cute (u doing it because of her) but thats about it.

What i was generally saying was: The fact that you are smoking in front of her doesnt give you any value. She wont be like "oh thank god he is smoking. I could never date a guy who isnt smoking". If that would be the case
i wouldnt want to date her anyways. Im not going to use drugs just because some girl i am attracted to is using drugs.

She would have to take a bus. So Metalus, how should I ask her to come to my location? Even if its partway. I could then just meet her and get a 5 minutes taxi back to my friends house.

As I said: If it takes her forever to get to your location you should meet somewhat in the middle. But if she isnt willing to take a 15min bus ride you should just next her, especially when she flaked before.

When u tried to get her to your friends home you knew that couldnt work. How did you want to get intimate with your buddy being nearby? How do you want to gently touch her with a guy next door? And does she feel comfortable having sex with you when someone is around?
If you cant answer all those questions i would say u didnt plan out your date all that well.
No problem. Just fix it the next time.

Well it was worth a try. The initial plan was to try and go to her house. It's during the conversation she told me " I'm going to Spain town to look for my sister " that I got the idea I could work with her logistics. And Spain Town is my home town so at the time I thought " it would be much easier to get her to my friends place since she would be going nearby ".

I wouldn't mind getting intimate with Jody while my friend was around. I got intimate with a different girl a few weeks ago at his place and we are cool with it. I don't know if Jody would have been comfortable though. Me and D'jean have a code, when a girl is over there, whichever of us that won't be banging her we'd pretend to be a computer technician upgrading the laptop outside while either me or him is inside banging the girl. That could work? Maybe, maybe not but it worked before.

So thats probably fine i guess. I just want to eliminate as many random factors as possible and having another guy around is some random factor that could be ignored by better logistics.

Next her.

 

[Smith]

Troy,

I had a sticking point like this too. It's actually not your logistics that fk u up. It's much earlier than that. I used to worry a lot about inviting girls home but then I realize the problem is not even that, it's your ability to enjoy the date with no outcome attached. These days, I go on dates with no outcome in mind. A date is simply a platform for a relationship to be built upon whether it be friendship, sexual or other. (Stop putting pressure on yourself, especially if you're new) If the sexual tension is not there, we could end up being best friends and I wouldn't even mind at all, but that doesn't mean I won't lead if the vibe is right, i.e. sexual and she's accepting my advances. My goal is always to have a good time, and sex is just a byproduct of what people do when they're having fun. In this case, you were trying too hard to push forward even if the vibe was cold and it didn't look like neither of you were having fun. Also by fun, I don't necessary mean dancing monkey kinda of fun, but the kinda fun that has a relaxed vibe and you both are getting to know each other. My advice for you would be to let go of trying to control the interaction (i.e. stop thinking) and just enjoy the flow of the interaction. You want to be less needy, then let go of the need to fuck her. Enjoy those little moments in the conversation when both of you are genuinely connecting with each other. Stop worrying about how you might come across. Sometimes you can do what seems like the most "beta" thing, but because you were 100% congruent and having fun, it ended up being the most alpha thing you do. I'm guessing you probably didn't even enjoy this date at all right? To me that's just disrespectful to yourself, and even worst than not getting laid.

.

I was starting to freeze up. It felt like I was running out of conversation topics. So I get in a little silence and to relax I play a game on my phone and she takes out her phone and snapchats. I was totally cool with this because I had nothing to say.

Never ever take out your phone and play a game or check your text message when the conversation dies down....It just shows you're not comfortable with tension and you're not present to the moment. You ran out of conversation topics? I call bs. There must be something on your mind you wanted to say, but you're just filtering yourself too much or you were trying to please her with your next sentence. You can comment on anything around you that's funny TO YOU, or if you insist on taking out your phone, show her something funny or a game you've been playing because YOU find it fun. Your emotion, if it's genuine, will rub off on her.

I leave it at that. I still went over my friends house and told him what happened. We laughed it off. Later his other friend, Chadwick came and I told him what happened too .They suggest that if I was man enough I call her now and tell her to come check me . Conversation basically went like

Not sure if your friend is genuinely try to help you but have bad game or just wanna have a laugh....Honestly, you would be better off if you just follow GC's advice and grind hard for half a year.

 

[Troy]

I really think you're not respecting yourself here, you said she dicked you around previously and made you wait 3 hours in a place and then flaked? MAN, if a girl does that to me SHE'S FUCKING HISTORY, I will allow her maybe half an hour to an hour (for example, if she unexpectedly decides to go home and change before the date, this might be a good sign because she wants to make a good impression, and it will ALWAYS take longer than she thinks)... but if its longer than that I'll probably text her and then go home. If after 3 hours of dicking me around with various texts, she then says she can't make it, I probably just wouldn't even reply to that text. NEXT! But the dynamic I'm getting, is that the more she screws you around, the more you suggest further dates and try to accommodate her. This looks really weak and beta. For example, when she's getting off the bus (when clearly there's no urgent reason, she's just choosing not to be with you), why would you reward this by trying to set up another date? And, when she texted you to call her, doing so looked like compliance. Why can't she call you? Does she have no credit in her phone? It just really looks like she was dicking you around (too lazy even to write a text explaining why she is late).

She didn't have credit to call me or text. How I know? The phone service provider in my country has a system set up allowing 15 " please call me texts " per day. And the only way to use that service is if there is NO CREDIT on the phone.

I called her 10 minutes after arriving and she said she had to stay over at class a bit later. She said it wasn't intentional because class usually ends at 10 and she would " meet me at 10:30am. I did some work in the meantime ( I could tell even before leaving home that she would be very late so I made other plans). A next hour + passed and I texted her again. That's when she sent me the " please call me text " and I called her. It's as if she forgot/didnt realize 10:30 was long gone and she should have let me know what's up. Ray you have a point though... unless I contacted her she didn't care to think I was waiting 2 hours. She could have used one of those " please call me "free texts to let me know she wasn't going to make it till much later. If it were Brad Pitt I bet she would have borrowed a phone or found herself even in the rain to come see him. I take it that she wanted to not break her promise but also wouldn't care if I waited the whole day. So yeah thinking about it now, she was disrespectful somewhat. And lol Nah I'll never be caught sitting in some place waiting on a girl for 3 hours. I'd be occupied till she came.

PS: She did apologize when I called and she asked for a reschedule .

Ask yourself, did I act like a sexy dominant motherfucker here?

No

Now about the smoking thing, well I presume you're talking about cigarettes not cigars.

Yeah regular Matterhorn cigarettes I smoked.

Do you think you are "wasting your time" on a second date? I dont think so. Still having a decent first date (which includes kissing or some kind of touching; at least for me) is okay.

Yeah I agree

Abundance means you don't give a fuck and next girls immediately. Any disrespect? That's a next bitch! Any flake? Next bitch! Any anything...NEXT!

Ahh bro ur on a different level. If I were to NEXT every girl that flaked on me I wouldn't have this report or any other of the other lot of dates. I would not have gotten the experience. I just feel my goal needs to be more realxed like " if she takes one hour to show I'm going home and it's a flake. And if she apologizes then we will reschedule the date. As I said above, she had flaked on me then said " I'm so sorry. The rain is falling and I'm stuck at Wendy's. Let's reschedule to Thursday ".

Yes with girls being disrespectful I'll next them. It wasn't going anywhere to begin with.

I used to worry a lot about inviting girls home but then I realize the problem is not even that, it's your ability to enjoy the date with no outcome attached. These days, I go on dates with no outcome in mind. A date is simply a platform for a relationship to be built upon whether it be friendship, sexual or other. (Stop putting pressure on yourself, especially if you're new) If the sexual tension is not there, we could end up being best friends and I wouldn't even mind at all, but that doesn't mean I won't lead if the vibe is right, i.e. sexual and she's accepting my advances. My goal is always to have a good time, and sex is just a byproduct of what people do when they're having fun. In this case, you were trying too hard to push forward even if the vibe was cold and it didn't look like neither of you were having fun. Also by fun, I don't necessary mean dancing monkey kinda of fun, but the kinda fun that has a relaxed vibe and you both are getting to know each other. My advice for you would be to let go of trying to control the interaction (i.e. stop thinking) and just enjoy the flow of the interaction. You want to be less needy, then let go of the need to fuck her. Enjoy those little moments in the conversation when both of you are genuinely connecting with each other. Stop worrying about how you might come across. Sometimes you can do what seems like the most "beta" thing, but because you were 100% congruent and having fun, it ended up being the most alpha thing you do. I'm guessing you probably didn't even enjoy this date at all right? To me that's just disrespectful to yourself, and even worst than not getting laid.

Hmm interesting Smith! I thought the whole point of going on a date was try to get sex as soon as possible ( well thats true), I just didn't see it that way you tell it. Nah I didn't enjoy the date one iota. Haha some girls I just cant be friends with. The girls I went out with that I wanted to fuck, have as a girlfriend, if it didn't work out I don't stick around them. It sucks for me to be friends when I know I want more but she won't give it to me ( well girls don't owe me anything, you get the point though). It would suck more if I was her friend and see her come introduce me to her lover. I only make female friends with girls I don't want to fuck. Sometimes even some really high status pretty girls I'll just have as friends.

Yeah I've done some of the silliest things on dates and it actually was the best I could have done.

I haven't seen anyone here talk about having fun while having a goal ( getting laid). OK for my next dates I'll take your advice and just go with the intention to " have a good time ". See how it goes on my next report

You ran out of conversation topics? I call bs. There must be something on your mind you wanted to say, but you're just filtering yourself too much or you were trying to please her with your next sentence. You can comment on anything around you that's funny TO YOU, or if you insist on taking out your phone, show her something funny or a game you've been playing because YOU find it fun. Your emotion, if it's genuine, will rub off on her.

Well yeah I had stuff on my mind. I was looking at the ceiling observing the shape but thought it was too boring a topic so I took out my phone. Confession I've realized that unless I'm making a girl laugh frequently on a date, then I'm being boring and I avoid boring or average topics. If I'm even talking about the weather I somehow just feel I should be funny with it. I don't like that pressure I put on myself. I don't know why I feel I need to have girls smiling none stop else I'm doomed. How do I change this? Haha I was playing dumb ways to die on my phone, though because I was using my phone she decided to snapchat. She turned the phone towards me ( I don't like cameras turned on me like that. She wanted to take a snapchat with me. I told her I didn't like that and she stopped. Im very conscious of how I'll look in the picture. Thinking back we could have had fun taking pics. I didn't grow up taking a lot of pics with even family and I'm uncomfortable with it. Except when I want a pic taken. How do I get over this? Surely there were more moments I could have had fun with Jody that I passed up because I didn't want to look " silly ".

Edit : Anyone who is reading my posts, you may think I'm going on dates entertaining girls. I don't think so. A few months ago I was here talking about being really really boring and asking how I can be more interesting. I know I'm at the stage learning to be way more interesting . One of my favorite ways to do that is make people laugh.. I do stand up jokes among friends from time to time . I feel it's good practice till I've mastered being interesting for long . Then I can dial back on the jokes.

Think of it this way ( different situation ) . Nice guy needs a bit more edge . He will have to go be a bit assholish before he can dial back as a genuine man.

Imo it works .

Not sure if your friend is genuinely try to help you but have bad game or just wanna have a laugh

Well D'jean my friend, he really wanted to help me. He went through all the trouble of leaving his business on the road, dropping off his Mom then driving back home. He didn't have to do that. And I really appreciate it. I still had to show up even to tell him the story. Chadwick on the other hand, he didn't laugh, lately we haven't spoken in a while because sometime ago we had a disagreement but he listened this time.

Lessons

So out of all this I should summarize all the corrections you guys gave, also I'll post it in my personal journal so I hopefully don't make these blunders on a next date and FR.

1) Don't smoke weed ( or anything) just to get " approval " from a girl. Focus on building myself at the gym ( PS I've been hitting the gym a lot lately).

2) No phone use on dated unless it's dire emergency or I want to involve her playing a game or something

3) Relax more and don't make the date a big deal

4) Deal with logistics before. Focus not on it when I should be having fun.

5) Most importantly just focus on the girl

6) Wait no more than a hour after the time we agreed on

7) Next any disrespectful girl

Ahh that's it? I guess

Edit: Yeah Ray I also believe conversation skills is the most important fundamental. The way I see it in my everyday, it's usually the guy who can talk that gets the girl. Having the other fundamentals in my opinion Just's amplifies how amazing the overall man is


Troy

 

[ray_zorse]

I suggest also to read the conversation articles, look up deep diving in particular -- the solution to boredom on dates is to get her talking and sharing about herself -- what she's passionate about, what her ambitions, dreams and goals are, etc. I'm of the firm belief that your CONVERSATION is your single most important fundamental. The great thing about this is you can practice it anywhere, you don't need to be on a date, it works just as well with gas station attendants, etc.
Ray

 

[Smith]

Well yeah I had stuff on my mind. I was looking at the ceiling observing the shape but thought it was too boring a topic so I took out my phone. Confession I've realized that unless I'm making a girl laugh frequently on a date, then I'm being boring and I avoid boring or average topics. If I'm even talking about the weather I somehow just feel I should be funny with it. I don't like that pressure I put on myself. I don't know why I feel I need to have girls smiling none stop else I'm doomed. How do I change this? Haha I was playing dumb ways to die on my phone, though because I was using my phone she decided to snapchat. She turned the phone towards me ( I don't like cameras turned on me like that. She wanted to take a snapchat with me. I told her I didn't like that and she stopped. Im very conscious of how I'll look in the picture. Thinking back we could have had fun taking pics. I didn't grow up taking a lot of pics with even family and I'm uncomfortable with it. Except when I want a pic taken. How do I get over this? Surely there were more moments I could have had fun with Jody that I passed up because I didn't want to look " silly ".

You thought it was too boring for her. You thought you need to make her laugh or you're doomed...these are mindsets and behaviour of "nice guys". There were so many times I thought the topic was silly but we ended up having so much fun. Another exercise you can do is practicing free association. For your ceiling example, "I love how these ceiling look, it reminds me of XX". It only has to be funny or interesting to you because she wants to know what you find interesting. Like I said before, you need to let go of the need to control, the need to impress, and even the need to get sex. Some mindsets I learned from RSD that has helped me a lot to get rid of these validation seeking behaviour are "There's no reason why you're not enough" and "The girl doesn't want the perfect guy, she wants the guy who's perfectly fine with himself." You can take a picture with her and look "silly" if you're perfectly fine with your insecurity. Let go of that need to "look cool". If you react like you're not comfortable with it and got defensive, her attraction for you will go down. Humour and physicality are the best ways to respond to a girl.

I haven't seen anyone here talk about having fun while having a goal ( getting laid). OK for my next dates I'll take your advice and just go with the intention to " have a good time ". See how it goes on my next report

It's not talked a lot about here unfortunately, but that's what I've seen from guys who are good with women. The girls are never their primary objective. It was always themselves having fun and inviting the girl to their fun bubble. If the girl doesn't want to come, it's her loss =)