Escaping the Boyfriend Zone

[salamis]

Gentlemen,

I'm afraid I've fallen into the trap of being "boyfriend zoned" by a girl I like, and I was wondering if any of you have ideas for how I might get her seeing me as more of a lover. This is a problem because, as expected, she is putting up a lot more resistence to physical escalation than I'm used to (paradoxically, it's definitely true in my experience that the more I like a girl the more resistant she is to being intimate with me). I'm not sure if I want to be her BF or not, but I think Chase is right that coming from the lover direction is much better in either case.

To put this in perspective, we've been on two dates. The first one all we could do was briefly kiss because we were in public and she had to catch a bus (which she apparently missed- I feel bad but I guess that counts as investment); the second time I brought her to my apartment and tried pretty persistently to escalate, but didn't get much beyond kissing as she was pretty passive/resistant- either she wasn't turned on enough or she'd already decided on making us wait, probably a bit of both.

It looks like I BF-zoned myself by chasing too much, and being too nice/not challenging or dangerous enough. Clearly I need to reverse this, but it's hard to do that now that we have this dynamic has some momentum. Is it time for me to make myself more scarce to her? Hit her with some hot, cold escalation (heavy escalation, and pulling back completely/doing something else if she's not cooperative)?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Novacane]

Sup Salamis? What I get from reading your post is that dates 1 and 2 didn't go so well, advice I can leave with you is to cut contact for a bit no calls texts etc. even if she initiates give some time in between replies. Not only will you move out of boyfriend category she'll start to wonder what has changed that you no longer contact her (maybe you found a new girl, have better things to do etc.). I purpose that after sometime has passed invite her over to your place and try to end the night with a lay if by then resistance is still high, slowly fade out of her life and move on to new prospects.

 

[Franco]

Salamis,

I'll have to come at this one from a different angle for you. If she came over to your place and at least made out with you, then that is pretty significant investment on her part, which means she probably at least likes you. The question you'll have to ask yourself here is, "do I want to see this girl for more than one hook-up?" If you do not, then I would probably cut contact with her permanently because it sounds like she's slotted you into the boyfriend role as you mentioned. Pursuing a one-night stand at this point is probably only going to give her the wrong idea and hurt her. You can't really "drop" the Provider role -- you can only "add" the Lover role along with it.

With that being said, if you do think a casual or long-term relationship is in the works, then you can still make this happen. But you actually need to do the opposite of what you proposed. She's testing your interest levels right now, and the worst thing you can do is go cold on her because that tells her, "Aha! He was just trying to get laid. Well I'm glad I didn't let him get that far because he stopped talking to me anyway." Instead, you'll want to invite her over to your place again as soon as possible (for dinner and/or a movie, or something cozy). If she accepts the offer, then you'll need to persist on sex and get as far as you possibly can. Now, if she puts up some serious physical resistance, then don't overstep your boundaries! But continually kiss her and caress her body so that she gets turned on to the point where she's practically dripping to take you as her lover.

The only issue here is that it may take more than another date to seal the deal if she's giving you tons of resistance. I've had one girl not give it up to me until the fifth date, and I only went that long for her because I was experimenting and trying to get as far as I could and learn as much as I could. The one important thing I took away from my casual relationship with her is that a girl who is putting off sex needs to know two things before she'll sleep with you:

• 1) You'll stick around after she takes you as her lover. The only way to show this is to be persistent about seeing her. If you suddenly go cold or stop asking her to come over, then she'll see that as a sign that she was correct in her analysis that you only wanted sex for a night from her, and she'll feel like she dodged an emotional and reptutation-damaging bullet by not engaging in it.
  
  2) You'll be man enough to close the deal when she finally gives you the opening. The best way to show her this is to be extremely sexual every time you get into the bedroom with her. She should feel like the only reason that you two aren't making passionate love is because she is holding you back -- you, on the other hand, crave her body. If she feels like she's not sure if you'll take the opportunity when she gives it to you, then she won't risk opening her self up to the possibility of it. Keep that in mind.

So, to summarize, do not go cold on her if you still wish to take her as your lover and into a casual or long-term relationship. Invite her directly over to your place as soon as possible and escalate after spending some time together (watching a movie or having dinner or whatever). If you were only interested in a one-night stand, then I would advise moving on to other prospects since she does not see you as "hook-up" material anymore.

Hope this helps!

- Franco

 

[salamis]

Thanks for your thoughts guys! It looks like I'm going more the Franco route as we have another date soon, so I'll try to keep those rules in mind. It's an interesting, and a little bit scary, insight that I can't drop the provider role. I guess I'll just have to downplay that role with the occasional comment hinting that I'm not looking for anything serious (like that I'm leaving the country in a few months, which is true), and maybe we can keep things casual.

 

[Marty]

If she feels like she's not sure if you'll take the opportunity when she gives it to you, then she won't risk opening her self up to the possibility of it. Keep that in mind.

This is a really enlightening exhortation. For those of us who have a ... shall we say, less intuitive sense for this stuff, Franco, would you mind explaining the thinking behind it? Thank you!

 

[Franco]

If she feels like she's not sure if you'll take the opportunity when she gives it to you, then she won't risk opening her self up to the possibility of it. Keep that in mind.

This is a really enlightening exhortation. For those of us who have a ... shall we say, less intuitive sense for this stuff, Franco, would you mind explaining the thinking behind it? Thank you!

This is simply me re-iterating some knowledge we try to convey repeatedly on this website: women love sex, and they expect you, as the man, to lead them to it. If a girl doesn't think you'll deliver, then she won't risk putting herself and her reputation "out there" to be rejected.

It's also the concept of the "nice guy" versus the "sexy guy." Women don't want a "nice guy" who's afraid to go for what he wants. They want the confident, "sexy guy" who's going to take charge and give her what they both want. So nothing new being taught here.

- Franco

 

[Marty]

This is simply me re-iterating some knowledge we try to convey repeatedly on this website: women love sex, and they expect you, as the man, to lead them to it. ... So nothing new being taught here.

Sorry Franco, I know I'm a slow learner! Positively glacial, in fact—I don't have much of a natural "feel" for this stuff. I try to compensate with lots of infield experience, though: I'm no slouch

If a girl doesn't think you'll deliver, then she won't risk putting herself and her reputation "out there" to be rejected. ... Women don't want a "nice guy" who's afraid to go for what he wants. They want the confident, "sexy guy" who's going to take charge and give her what they both want.

So for clarification's sake: what happens if she gives resistance? For example, she declines to isolate with you to a private location. Say you accept a phone number in lieu. In this instance, will she make an exception for you? Can you escape the penalty for not "leading her to sex", on the grounds that she implied that she didn't want it yet? Or do you get hammered all the same? Thanks.

 

[Franco]

Marty,

So for clarification's sake: what happens if she gives resistance? For example, she declines to isolate with you to a private location. Say you accept a phone number in lieu. In this instance, will she make an exception for you? Can you escape the penalty for not "leading her to sex", on the grounds that she implied that she didn't want it yet? Or do you get hammered all the same? Thanks.

Well, the advice given here was specifically to fit the poster's situation, which was that he already had this girl back at his place and was making out with her. She was also willing to go on a second (and now third) date with him, which obviously implies interest. So I was advising that the poster persist because the girl obviously wants him to persist.

As far as your questions and the girl making an exception, the answer is "yes," girls will certainly make an exception if they found you charming and attractive. My current girlfriend turned down my offers to come back to my place on the first date, but I ended up bedding her on the third date because it was obvious she was very into me and sexually excited around me. So if you can't get her back to your place after the first date, you're going to want to use date compression to try to get her out with you again while the iron is still hot. If you're running date compression, however, it's possible that you may want to avoid getting sexual on the second date if it's not at your place so that you can leave her romanticizing what a third date would be like. At that point, you can invite her directly over to your place to seal the deal.

The point of this post though is that, whenever she's over at your place, I advise being highly physical and sexual for as long as possible until she either leaves or gives in. If she leaves, it's important to try to get her over again as soon as possible if you feel like she was close to having sex with you. The idea is that you are always (suavely) pushing for sex by turning her on, and she's resisting until she gets so excited that she can't resist anymore.

- Franco