Extreme Turnabouts from HOT to COLD

[Landlord]

I haven't posted in here in ages. This is a 2 part question—1 part practical/tactical, 1 part spiritual/psychological.

Ive been having dates recently with girls who express that they really like me, then completely back away.

EXAMPLE 1:
In one case a woman who texted me the next day: "Wow, I had such a wonderful time, I can't wait to see you again!" but then started playing an unreasonable game of hard to get.
When I asked "when are you free?" she wouldn't say.
When I invited her to dinner she said "I have plans with friends" (the day before she had said she was free that particular day)
Sent her a text: "how about next Tuesday" (no reply for 2 days)
Called her 2 days later: no answer, no call back

EXAMPLE 2:
Second date with a girl I did a fair bit of making out with on date 1 and tried to get up to her apartment but she said it was messy.
2 days ago she texted me "Hey there wanted to thank you again for a fun night Saturday. Delicious dinner and good company! When are you leaving town?"
That set off 24 hours of very sexually charged text flirting, and a date at her house last night.
I arrived, went up to her apartment, she served wine, through the night some touching on her hand, arm, back, a couple of small kisses, and basic escalation.
When I ramped up a bit and went to give her the first "proper kiss" she pulled away and said "Listen, I like hanging out with you, but this just isn't 'clicking' for me."

I felt disappointed and annoyed...because she gave every indication that she was really into me and ready for sex.
I also considered that it might be LMR.
So I was cool about it, and told her ok, I get it, and just continued to lay in the exact same position on the sofa.
She went off to the kitchen to do something while I played with my phone and wondered how long I needed to sober up enough to drive home.

After maybe 10 minutes of me basically freezing her out, she came back and laid right on top of me on the sofa, face to face, and started writing around, pressing her hips on mine, putting her tits in my face, etc. I responded by feeling up her ass and putting my face into her neck. When I started kissing her neck, she ABRUPTLY pulled away, looked in the other direction and froze me out. I tried to grab her, dominate a bit and pull her back down, but she wasn't having it.

I got up, went to the bathroom, came back, put on my boots, said "OK, Bye" and walked out.


PRACTICAL QUESTION:
What the fuck is going on? Is this garden variety Shit testing or Playing Hard to Get? Or are these girls missing a bolt somewhere?
Have I not responded correctly? What tactics could be used in a situation like this, short of just completely ignoring them?
Both these girls are 28, never married.

PSYCHOLOGICAL QUESTION:
Look, it's pretty hard NOT to be angry/upset when something like this happens, even if I conclude that the girls are damaged in some way.
I feel like a total sucker.
I've taken these girls out, spent time and energy and money on them, I've played my cards pretty well I think, and I certainly haven't done anything to deserve the bitch treatment.
And yet they feel that because they have a pussy, they can be as rude and disrespectful to me as they like.
Who feels this way?
What do you do different to NOT feel this way?

And more important—what do you different to NOT be in this situation ever again?!

 

[Landlord]

Yes, and no.
It's not the beginning of my journey, and I understand what you're saying,
but I'm older than most of the guys here, and being willing/able to take a woman out to a nice place has worked for me historically more than it has not.

In BOTH these cases, these girls initially followed up quite aggressively to make sure they would see me again.

But also in both of these cases, when push came to shove, they rejected me, and not the other way around.
I feel there is another angle to this than "don't take them out."

(although as frustrated as I am with recent results, I'm not taking anyone out anyway)

Landlord

 

[Landlord]

and—it's neither here nor there—but only one of these women is American

 

[Franco]

Landlord,

Good to see you see you around!

I see possible patterns here from just your two examples that might be an issue:

• 1) Not moving fast enough (and attempting to bed girls on the first date).
  
  2) Not being aggressive/patient/persistent enough through LMR to push past it.

These two are somewhat related in this context, but I'll explain them individually. The first point should seem rather obvious -- for some reason, both of the women in these examples seem to be women who had already been on a date with you. This isn't necessarily the coup de grace to your chances with a girl, but you do need to keep in mind that your chances of sleeping with said woman drop drastically with each additional date past the first. It sounds like your chance with the first girl might have only been the first date, and she decided after that that you weren't what she was looking for, which was probably a man who undoubtedly was going to take her to bed and make passionate love to her. The second girl seemed to give you a second chance (probably because you persisted relatively well on the first date). Remember, the only reason a girl should go home thinking that she didn't sleep with you on the first date is that she made the decision herself to stop it from happening. If she leaves wondering if sex was even an option if she wanted it, then your boat sinks immediately. She has to know that you want sex, and you want it from her.

The second point is more apparent in the interaction with the second girl. It sounds to me like she was able to ruffle your feathers a bit as evidenced by this statement:

...told her ok, I get it, and just continued to lay in the exact same position on the sofa.

She went off to the kitchen to do something while I played with my phone and wondered how long I needed to sober up enough to drive home.

You basically accepted her frame at this point and let her acknowledge the fact that she is in control, and your vibe/facial expressions probably verified that fact for her. It's okay to be "cool" about it, but you need to continue to attempt to escalate with her even when she resists. If you two are alone together at her house, then it's very obvious what she wants at that point. For you, it's just a matter of persisting for as long as it takes to get what you want.

After you exclaim it's cool, you can sit back on the couch for awhile and then make another move after a couple of minutes. If she throws up any statements, you basically refute them in whatever way feels most natural for you. This can be something as simple as, "well, I just can't keep my hands off of you with how sexy you look tonight" (said with a sly smile). You need to get her to feel extremely desired so that things do 'click' with her and suddenly she does not want to resist any longer because this sexy man sitting right next to her want's nothing else right at that moment than to pound her brains out.

Persistence here is key. It can sometimes take hours to get past a girl's shit tests and LMR, but during those hours, you need to show no signs of annoyance or ruffled feathers, and you must consistently show signs of lust, sexuality, and desire for her.

- Franco

 

[Landlord]

Franco,

Glad to get your response, brother! Long time no see....

I think you nailed it with number 2. There may be some psychological issues there too....past abuse or what-have-you....but the fact is that if she invited me to her house to drink, then at least at some point she was expecting what I was expecting.
I accept that for a woman "It's not clicking" does not equate "it will never click" and my tolerance/patience for working through shit tests and LMR was already diminished from other recent, negative experiences (with Israeli girls like #1, who are notoriously difficult to deal with).

With #2 I tried HARD on date #1, got her to her building door, she wouldn't let me come up because she was embarrassed about the state of her dirty apartment. I sure tried anyway! I know she spent 2 hours cleaning before I arrived last night.
It is POSSIBLE that had I persisted and persisted until she literally threw me out that I might have gotten in there. But fuck man, I'm 44 yrs old now, I just don't have patience for that kind of bullshit anymore.... She was a strong 7, no more.

With #1 I don't buy it. This girl definitely would not have let me lay her on date 1 or 2. I think she balked because I was very sexual with her and she was scared about the prospect of sex on our next date...which was clearly on the cards.

About the Psychological part, I'm still steaming over this, to be honest.

 

[Franco]

Landlord,

It is POSSIBLE that had I persisted and persisted until she literally threw me out that I might have gotten in there. But fuck man, I'm 44 yrs old now, I just don't have patience for that kind of bullshit anymore.... She was a strong 7, no more.

Yeah, there's definitely a certain level of personal judgment you'll want to use as well. If this girl's only "average" or "slightly above average" in your book, then taking 4 hours out of your sleep cycle to try to bed her may not even be worth your time. I've definitely had situations where I've had a rather average girl over at my place trying to throw up tons of LMR, and I ended the interaction early because I thought my sleep to be more valuable at that point. So nothing wrong with deciding, "hey, this is no longer worth it." Just keep in mind that you might want to forgo some sleep for the more attractive ones.

With #1 I don't buy it. This girl definitely would not have let me lay her on date 1 or 2. I think she balked because I was very sexual with her and she was scared about the prospect of sex on our next date...which was clearly on the cards.

Well, if that's the case, then it seems like she was never interested in sex with you to begin with. She might have been looking solely for a Provider (and thought you to be one), then when you got too sexual, she realized you were going for Lover, and that's not what she wanted from you. In other words, there was a miscommunication of value at some point (possibly when you first met, or maybe during the date), and she thought she was going to get one thing out of you while you were vehemently trying to get the other. So it's probably best that she didn't drag you through a second date anyway when she recognized this. Otherwise the same result would have come about, except you would have possibly had to dig deeper into your wallet.

- Franco

 

[Lotus]

Landlord,

The only thing I want to add is, after 24 hours of sexually charge flirting may have put her in a position where she felt like she had you... so she decided to play games, especially before having sex with her for the first time.

She may have been trying to play games the entire time, and I can't comment on that.... but that much texting, could have destroyed all of the intrigue you had over her.

My question is why not use the initial sexual flirting to just get her in person, rather then continue on with it as you did?

Just a thought.

 

[Landlord]

Because it's fun?
Because it "keeps the stove hot" until I get there?

I think the essence of what you're saying is correct that she may be one of those kitties who lose interest in the string the moment they catch it.

All the same—good game or bad game—I'm just not hanging around or putting in the effort for a woman who needs to play games like this.

Just. Not. Worth.It.

 

[Chase]

Hey Landlord!

Nice to see you ‘round these parts. Hope you’ve been well, man.

I’m with Franco on both his points #s 1 and 2.

Personally, I never like getting a proactive “I had a really great time with you, let’s do it again soon!” text from girls... means she isn’t nervous enough / floored enough / worried about seeing me enough that she’s sitting there scared to text me and hoping I send her some kind of sign I dig her too.

Usually that means that either a.) you made it too obvious on the date that you want her, so she feels like the power is in her hands, or b.) you simply fell down on enchanting her enough that views you as a dominant male authority. Much of this ties back to not moving fast enough... move sufficiently quickly and you will fluster ANY girl, but how fast you need to move to have that effect ranges widely from girl to girl.

Realistically, it’s impossible to play your cards right this way with every girl – sometimes you’ll just get the super tough, independent, headstrong, unemotional chicks, and even if they feel like they’re your “equal” you can still lay them sometimes, but the odds are less in your favor when they’re thinking of you this way and writing you stuff like this.

On the second one, keep in mind that some girls have buttons they’re weird about having pushed. Kissing is the most common of these I have seen (freaking out when you touch her neck seems a somewhat distant second).

If a girl gets weird when I kiss her on the lips, depending on how weird she gets, I’ll sometimes just say to myself, “Okay, no mouth kissing until at least after sex,” and then just proceed to kiss everywhere else on her body and NOT her lips.

When someone has a tripwire somewhere, better just to go around it rather than continuing to flick it in hopes they’ll “get over” it.

(As an aside, I think the kissing one may be related to a relationship-thing; some women view sex as perfectly fine with strangers / casual partners, but kissing is something they only want to do with men they’re serious about. They will tend to resist kissing you, despite happily moving forward with anything else so long as it isn’t mouth kisses... just refrain from mouth-kissing and you’re fine)

Chase