FR Fr: Am I moving too fast and not confidently enough?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Went on a date yesterday, cute little Italian girl (who I swear wishes she was Latina). Super obsessed with Spanish culture and really shy, popped her off Okcupid. So anyway I go pick her up (she doesn't drive or something like that), soon as she gets in the car I start working Kino and she seems to be feelin it, shy but smiling. While we're walking to Starbucks I put my arm around her and say "I like my women short" (she's 5'3).

We go to Starbucks and I think she expected me to buy something for her (not spending money on girls, not interested in that lol), I just order a water and she orders one too (probably because she saw I wasn't planning on paying for it haha; we go sit down in the comfy chairs next to each other and I start trying to deep dive, but she's basically giving me one word/one sentence responses (and it basically turns into an interview), I'm still working Kino at this point and it's going well we hold hands a few times, my hand on her stomach etc. They didn't... seem awkward I guess but I'm still new to Kino so it might have been? She didn't give that impression though, anyway about 45 minutes in I decide it's time to go for the pull and I'm bored as shit of her ridiculous shyness, so I go use the restroom (gotta be careful with my disability, have to empty my bag before a pull for it to be comfortable for me), she isn't really giving me any signs but I decide it is better to be bold than meek.

So I come back from the restroom and say "Let's go" and we walk outside, while we're walking to the car I turn around and say "come here", she comes but says "you're making me nervous", I say "don't be nervous " and try to kiss her but she pulls away. I don't let it affect me and put my arm around her again and we go to the car, once we're back in the car I make a phone call to a client that's putting an offer on a house (that needed to get done so I just timed it with a disengage after a failed escalation). After I'm done with the phone call I try to kiss her again but she pulls away. I say "What's up?" and she says "I don't kiss guys on the first date", we talk a little about that, I say "ok whatever", we talk for a bit longer yaddi yaddi yadda, then she asks me if we're just going to sit in my car, so I say where else do you wanna go? She has no ideas, I say I'll just drop you off at home lol. Get back to her place and we hold hands on the way there but when I drop her off I go for the kiss one last time and she gives me a hug, what a waste of time lmao.

I mean... if a girl won't even kiss you on the first date she's a waste of time yes? My question is did I make any wrong moves here and is it possible I'm not advanced enough to be trying to move this quickly? Got another date tonight with this cute blonde, would love some feedback.

 

[Bboy100]

Hey dude, I'm gonna be a little hard on you this time. Not doing it to be insulting. In fact, I normally wouldn't post this. But you strike me as someone who can handle harsh criticism if it means helping you learn. So here's my critique:

I start trying to deep dive, but she's basically giving me one word/one sentence responses (and it basically turns into an interview)

This is the first thing that stood out to me. Idc how shy a girl is, if she's older than 15, she can give more than a one word answer. If she's just giving one word answers, that usually means she's not interested. One strategy which sometimes works here is to use social pressure to get her to invest. So stop talking, and just look at her expectantly. Or ask a question, and when she gives a one-word answer, make a hand gesture like "Ok....now tell me more" (kind hard to explain what that would look like over text)

In any case...this happens every once in a while, particularly with online dating. Cause sometimes, people just seem different from their profile for whatever reason. So you might've looked good on paper, but once she saw you, she changed her mind. There are a lot of things she can't really account for on paper. Height, smell (including pheromones...very important), eye contact, accent/voice...almost all your fundamentals really. I've had several dates like this in the past. Not really all that much you can do about that.

Having said that, there are still some things you can learn from this...

I'm still working Kino at this point and it's going well we hold hands a few times, my hand on her stomach etc. They didn't... seem awkward I guess but I'm still new to Kino so it might have been?

Some girls have a hard time saying "no" to small (or even large) amounts of physical escalation. So just because she allows you to do this, doesn't mean she actually feels comfortable with it. I haven't figured out a good way to screen for girls who actually like what you're doing, and for those who are just polite. Maybe someone else has something to say about this?

I turn around and say "come here", she comes but says "you're making me nervous"

This is a BIG red flag to me. Girls rarely signal discomfort or disinterest so blatantly. If she's verbalizing something negative about the date, that means you probably missed 2 or 3 other non-verbal signals, and you've left her with no choice but to outright say it. To her, it was probably obvious that you were making her uncomfortable throughout the entire date. It's only because you didn't pick up on it and instead continued pushing that she finally verbalized it. If a girl ever does something like this, START OVER. Everything you were doing....stop. And rebuild the date from scratch. You almost want to start the interaction over again. lol.

and try to kiss her but she pulls away. I don't let it affect me and put my arm around her again and we go to the car, once we're back in the car I make a phone call to a client that's putting an offer on a house (that needed to get done so I just timed it with a disengage after a failed escalation). After I'm done with the phone call I try to kiss her again but she pulls away. I say "What's up?" and she says "I don't kiss guys on the first date", we talk a little about that, I say "ok whatever"

Ok...there's being dominant/persistant. And then there's just plain lack of awareness. If she just told you she feels nervous, then you try to kiss her, this signals lack of calibration, not dominance. Then you said "ok, whatever". I dunno what tonality you used, but that may have come off as bitter/resentful...also not good.

but when I drop her off I go for the kiss one last time

Same concept as what I explained above. Except amplifiedx10. I'm not saying don't try to kiss a girl again if she rejects you the first time. But you have to have good reason to believe she's more comfortable/attracted to you. It doesn't sound this is the case.
Like...when you're trying to sell a house, you don't ask to buy, then just sit there for 5 mins, then ask to buy again do you? No...you ask to buy, they say no, then you show off more of the house and its great features, THEN you ask to buy again. Same concept here.



Overall, you have to remember dude...yes, you lead the dance of seduction. But it's still a dance. That means she still has an active role. If she's doing nothing to further the interaction, and you're just pushing, it's not going to pan out very well. Check this video commentary by DrexelScott out: http://drexelscott.com/2016/01/how-not-to-get-laid/ I think you might benefit from it. It'll give you a clearer picture of what I mean when I say that it's not all about persistence.


Side Note: I don't recommend kissing girls until you're ready to escalate to sex anyways. This is a lesson I've learned the hard way. It destroys intrigue, plausible deniability, and worse yet...she has no "logical" reason to kiss you...only an emotional one. So once she leaves and the emotional high is gone...she's left with the thought "omg, I just kissed this guy and I don't even know him! He must have tricked me! Better not see him again. <----Ik this sounds like Bullshit, and indeed, her actual thought process is bullshit. But we as human beings are very good at rationalizing the things we do in order to protect our egos.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

Dude be hard on me, the point of this is to improve and become great; I'd feel like more of a moron failing with woman after woman rather than being smart and getting advice on doing the right things and making stuff happen!

I think you're right, she moved her hand away while we were holding hands to answer her phone a couple times, and while I didn't take this to be a nonverbal signal that she was uncomfortable, IT WAS! She used 2 hands to answer the phone where girls that are interested and like what you're doing typically don't bother texting people while you're on a date.

I'm starting to understand a little bit more. Gotta run to another date right now but I'll watch Drexel's video when I get home!