- Joined
- Dec 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,458
These are two Field Reports from two dates that I had last weekend. I met both women in cold approach. I took them both on coffee dates. I calibrated each situation slightly differently (moving slower with the second one) but overall the vibes and scenarios in both dates were VERY similar. It seems neither went anywhere, and actually both girls gave very similar responses to flaking. It also turned out that both girls recently got out of LTRs - the first girl from a five year relationship, and the second broke off her engagement a few months ago. So, I'm hoping that because these are so similar it will be easier to read over.
I'd like to know what my sticking point is.
Is the issue that I am sending both of these women the wrong message (that I am looking for a relationship, that I am not using enough sexual or chase frames) or is the issue with both of these women their supposed inexperience as well as their situations (having recently left their own LTRs)?
----
FR+: A*****
This girl and I met in the lobby of a building on the way to a meetup. She actually initiated, which never happens to me. I went to sign into security, and though she was waiting in the lobby she got into line behind me. I turned around and we made eye contact, and she initiated:
Our conversation continued like this for a bit, but what is obvious is that she was pretty attuned and interested in me from the get go. I do think part of her has an outgoing personality.
In the elevator, with brighter lights, I noticed that she was wearing light emerald green eyeglasses that also matched the color of her eyes. So on the way out of the elevator, I made sure to point this out as a statement of genuine interest:
At this point we were on the way out of the elevator and went to the meetup, and agreed to connect again at the very end. After about an hour, we ran into each other again in the meetup and here I took the opportunity to try and set up a date.
TEXTING
COFFEE DATE, SATURDAY EVENING
She ended up running behind schedule quite profusely but did text me at 1800 to warn me that she's running behind about half an hour. This was fine for me, as I got to run some errands and read a book. When she showed up about 40 minutes late, she apologized quite a bit but was also extremely excited to see me, and looked better than I remember. Beautiful black dress, bright green eyes and auburn-brunette hair. From what I could tell, a fairly nice chest.
Our conversation was great! We were in that place for about two hours, and talked about:
- How we got to our respective places in life
- Embarking on a new road to spiritual growth and self improvement (as it turns out, she's also been through a recent rough patch and is making many changes to her life)
- She shared that she's been in relationships for the last seven years of her life (2 years and 5 years) and just ended one with a guy she's not sure about, because there are still lingering feelings there.
- It turns out we live five-ten minutes from each other in the suburbs. This is extremely rare in my area; I've been living there the last six months and have yet to meet a girl who lives that close by.
- How we got into our careers and what inspired her to do what she does. It turns out she's an English professor at a community college, has a PhD, and essentially enjoys teaching students about the finesse of storytelling. As you can then imagine, the conversation was quite fluid and intricate.
- She lives at home, like me; she's quite busy with a number of things outside work and rarely has time.
Nonverbal actions on my part went well. I used one of two sexual frames in this interaction (I no longer remember what they are) but they were well received. I focused more on portraying myself as a sexual man, and we spent a good portion of the date talking about sexuality quite openly. I told her that being single is great, that jealousy is bad (somehow that came up), that women's sexuality is horribly misunderstood and misrepresented here, that women are just as or more sexual than men but society seems to stand in the way of free expression, and some other bits.
About halfway through the date (she was sitting across from me and leaning in the entire time) I put my left hand on top of her right hand and lightly squeezed; this turned into moderately tight hand holding soon after, and she reciprocated and didn't feel discomfort as far as I can tell. I think she was more turned on, as she kept holding a very deep gaze and sometimes our conversation would die and this is what was left.
KISS CLOSE AND PARTING WAYS
As she lives about ten minutes from me, I inquired if she could give me a ride back as well. At first she accepted quite willingly, but then I did something stupid: I asked her if she was sure. In a very nice guy manner. And then she changed her mind - she said that actually, she'd rather go home by herself because she has lots of things on her mind that she'd like to think about. I persisted twice to try and get her to change her mind, but to no avail. I tried once more much later, but again at this point I had already bungled. Doh! She also said she needed to go home and cook for family coming over tomorrow morning. Considering that the time was about 9:30pm and she had an hour and a half ride home I am not sure how much cooking she was planning to get done.
I pay (despite her insistence that she pays part of it) and tell her that she can get it next time. The sexual vibe at this point was quite strong between us, it seemed. I've been on very few dates where the chemistry actually feels on a very level field, but this was one of them.
The walk to the subway station was quiet and tense with some kind of sexual energy. It was very subtle, but I've started to learn to recognize this feeling. It's awkward and uncomfortable, but it's exactly what you want. I didn't make any attempts at holding hands or anything of that sort, but I did lead her dominantly.
We walk to the subway and we wait for the train, which is coming in about six minutes. She starts talking for a few minutes about her ex boyfriend and her situation, and how she still has feelings for him. It was basically something about where she is in her life - having mixed feelings about still liking him deeply yet looking forward to being single, as she has never been single for the last seven years, and also that she wasn't sure what she was going to do - keep the current path or follow something new. I cannot remember the intricacies of what she was talking about anymore, but I do remember it was her talking and I was facing her, looking intently and deep into her eyes as she was saying everything. After a few minutes of her talking, she stopped and we then were just staring deep into each others eyes. There was this crazy tense pause that lasted a good ten seconds before I dominantly took one step towards her (closing the gap of two feet to about six inches), put my left hand around her lower back and pulled her into me to kiss.
Her eyes rolled up into the "kiss trance"...I'm sure some of you have seen this many times. I love watching it happen...it really does feel like women enter a different reality when it's done right. She attempted to go first, but I pulled back, let it sit in tension for another two seconds, and then we embraced for quite some time. Basically until the train pulled in and everyone on the platform was staring at us. And then when we let go, we continued to stare into each other's eyes and just started giggling uncontrollably as the train pulled in, at the same time. I've also never had this happen - it felt like very natural chemistry.
The subway ride was otherwise uneventful. At one point we were quite and she asked what's up:
We both got off at the same station but I had to head to a different train. I suggested we let the night continue, and she again declined. I kissed her dominantly again for about thirty seconds, then broke it off abruptly when I sensed that she wanted it to keep going. Then I said bye and left.
The next morning I texted as follows:
ATTEMPT TO SET UP DATE #2 AND REJECTION
In this situation, after speaking with TOOL I decided I wanted to try going for the hard sell, just to see if it might work. Unfortunately it backfired, and in retrospect that was expected. I just think there isn't much of anything I could have done - she has issues and she needs to resolve them, so timing is a problem in her life clearly. Yet, in some manners she still demonstrates a high degree of interest in her text (a.k.a. "I need time" and also "you're pretty kick ass!")
----
FR: J******
I went to a film screening in the city with my cousin's wife, for a microfinance foundation helping the impoverished in developing countries. I was hoping I'd get a chance to meet some women here, but naturally I sat down with my cousin and spent the first fifteen minutes before the film talking to her. I noticed two attractive women in my proximity - on immediately to my right with another girl friend of hers, and one woman who came all by herself sitting one row behind and to the right. This second girl is the one I wanted to meet. She was wearing a pretty black dress with pale beige leaf patterns throughout.
Anyway, the movie finished and there was a thirty minute Q/A session, and then the entire room disbanded. My target put on her jacket and left almost immediately; I said goodbye to my cousin saying that I had to run to another engagement (and I actually did have to do this and was about to be late) but timed it so that I exited right behind my target. As we're walking out of the theatre onto the street, her in front of me, I catch up next to her and preopen with the tap on the elbow. Though she moved away and looked at me in surprise, I told her that I really liked her dress and thought she looked very cute in it. She said thanks and then proceeded to tell me about how she's had it for forever, over five years. I joked that most of my clothes barely last two months, getting her to laugh, and we ended up walking down the street together for about five minutes in the same direction. This allowed me to deep dive and talk about the movie we just saw, and how it impacted us emotionally (I feel like details are pretty unnecessary here). When we got to my subway station (she was continuing onwards) I said I have to go, but I think that she's a really cool person based on what I've found out, and maybe we should get together for coffee one evening. She agreed and pretty excitedly gave me her phone number.
We then spent ANOTHER five minutes outside the station just chatting, and I learned that she works in private equity, is from Ohio (and doesn't miss it all that much), somehow wound up in my city and isn't really sure about staying in her field. It sounds actually like she wants to get out, but I got a chance to ask her a few things about it. At one point she remarked how sometimes she works 100 hour weeks and feels like it's making her look old. Clearly this was a set up of some kind, but I went along with it and told her "no, I can't see that, because actually you're very cute..." and left it trailing off. She looked at me quite deeply and intently, and we didn't say anything to each other while looking at each other for maybe five-ten seconds. <In retrospect, an excellent opportunity to kiss her>. I left it at coffee and texting her to figure out a time, and then we parted ways with me grabbing her gently on her elbow/arm.
TEXTING
COFFEE DATE SUNDAY AFTERNOON
I ran a few minutes late but made sure to inform her, and when I got there I gave her a cheek kiss and a light arm tug. It was such a beautiful day and very hot inside the coffee shop, so I suggested that we grab coffee and walk to the river and hang out there and talk. She excitedly agreed. Her demeanor was very playful and inquisitive; she was wearing very plain clothes - yellow jeans and a black tank top. I asked her about all the trouble she got into today and she began to tell me about her weekend. She actually PAID for ME when we were getting coffee and politely refused my offer to split it.
The process here (as it happened) was:
- Grab coffee
- Walk to the park (about 15-20 minutes)
- Stroll along the river
- Sit on a bench and hang out
- Stroll back
- Grab macaroons
Deep Diving and Conversation Bits:
- Talking about growing up in Ohio and in our respective cities
- How she wound up in her career. It turns out she wanted to pursue medicine in college; then her dad stepped in and talked her out of it, and she pursued a career in accounting, then private equity instead, because of her dad as well as because of the lucrative aspect.
- There seemed to be an underlying tension between her and her relationship with her parents.
- She lives by herself in a studio in the city.
- She rarely goes outside that neighborhood and doesn't try too many new things; it turned out she had never explored the neighborhood I took her to, and it's also one of the most prominent areas in my city. I have never met someone that hasn't been around there.
- She seems to like quite a bit of tv and spends time watching Game of Thrones and such (in retrospect, this was the perfect opportunity to suggest we go watch that as a pull)
- Her love for food (and a mutual interest in checking out ramen places in the city)
- We talked a lot of our experiences with drinking and going out in the city.
- It turned out we had the same taste in music and spent a lot of time talking about music festivals.
- I didn't make many chase frames or sexual frames. In fact, the vibe between us was largely platonic and she didn't seem like the type that would accept anything more. I could have been completely wrong, as now I also sense that there's probably an inner rebel within her that hasn't been released, judging by her relationship with her parents.
- I tried to qualify sexuality but this didn't seem too well received.
As we're walking around the space between us was about half a foot. When we sat down on a bench to hang out, she was sitting about one foot away, but turned to face me 45 degrees and leaned in.
Though I had barely been touching her, over the course of the date I made it a point to cup her elbow once in a while, which soon moved to her lower back. When I did the latter, she commented that she feels her lower back is a bit sweaty.
I tried to suggest we go hang out longer on a grass patch by the river where a lot of people were having a picnic.
CLOSING OUT THE DATE
We walk to this place to get macaroons and I help her pick out the right things to get for her friends. I suggest we hang out longer, but she tells me she's going back home to do laundry for the next two hours and will then head to dinner with friends <WHICH SOUNDS LIKE A PERFECT SITUATION FOR FAST SEX!!! AUGH>. I did not attempt to invite myself over to hers. Now, up to this point the most physical contact I had been making is cupping her elbow with my hand whenever we made jokes and laughed on a high note.
On the walk over, on a high note after we'd just been laughing and walking together, her about a foot to my left, I took her hand and gently placed mine in it. She suddenly got slightly tense, and we had a five second pause that I broke by commenting "Yeah...I just did that" with a smile. This transitioned into an interlock very soon after, again initiated by me. Her grip wasn't firm, but it wasn't loose and uncomfortable either as far as I could tell, and she didn't try to pull away after that, not did she get any closer.
She commented very soon after that something like this:
I again suggested that we continue hanging out, but she politely declined.
<In retrospect, perhaps a good opportunity here would have been to suggest we go watch Game of Thrones at her place, but it did not occur to me at the time>
We talked about cool places to get ramen, and I suggested we get together during the week for dinner. She was very excited about it and started to suggest times and days, but I told her we can hold off and figure it out when we know our schedules better. When I closed, she moved in for a semi-close but semi-distant hug with her hands around my mid-lower back. I reciprocated by pulling her in with my left arm on her lower back and kissing her on the cheek gently. We again talked for another minute and I did the same thing (cheek kiss + hand on lower back) as I pulled away and walked in a different direction.
At the very end of it I made sure to text her this correspondence:
Me 1823: Thanks for coming out, J******. It was enjoyable.
Unfortunately she never replied, indicating that something didn't quite click in that situation.
ATTEMPT TO SET UP DATE #2 AND REJECTION
So logistics are quite terrible for me; I no longer have a place to take these women until the middle of next month. Additionally, my gut feeling with this one was her inexperience and a conservative background, so I held off on trying to go back to her place or be overtly sexual. However, I did want to polarize her and make absolutely clear that my intentions were romantic and sexual, and not simply friendly. I think I did succeed in that, albeit at the expense of potentially scaring her away.
This is where this is right now, and she has not yet replied, nor do I expect her to.
----
QUESTIONS:
1. What is going on with these women? Is it an inexperience talking, or did I approach them in the wrong way by setting relationship expectations rather than sexual expectations? One element I am still pretty terrible at is setting chase frames and sexual frames effectively; while I employed it somewhat with A*****, I did not use it as much on J****** and instead with her I went slower and really eased into it.
2. Judging by the responses that they gave, A***** made a concrete decision while J****** did not - though she feels like we are on different pages, her long ass response to my very short text either feels like a *very nice* rejection (as would be expected from an inexperienced girl) or a slight hint of interest. Which is it?
3. Are my comments/retrospective analysis correct? Were there escalation windows and opportunities for chase/sexual frames that I am missing?
4. Where were the opportunities to be more sexual, especially with the second woman. I definitely and deliberately held back with her, just based on a feel of inexperience and conservatism, but I am not sure if this was or wasn't appropriate.
Thank you all.
I'd like to know what my sticking point is.
Is the issue that I am sending both of these women the wrong message (that I am looking for a relationship, that I am not using enough sexual or chase frames) or is the issue with both of these women their supposed inexperience as well as their situations (having recently left their own LTRs)?
----
FR+: A*****
This girl and I met in the lobby of a building on the way to a meetup. She actually initiated, which never happens to me. I went to sign into security, and though she was waiting in the lobby she got into line behind me. I turned around and we made eye contact, and she initiated:
Our conversation continued like this for a bit, but what is obvious is that she was pretty attuned and interested in me from the get go. I do think part of her has an outgoing personality.
In the elevator, with brighter lights, I noticed that she was wearing light emerald green eyeglasses that also matched the color of her eyes. So on the way out of the elevator, I made sure to point this out as a statement of genuine interest:
At this point we were on the way out of the elevator and went to the meetup, and agreed to connect again at the very end. After about an hour, we ran into each other again in the meetup and here I took the opportunity to try and set up a date.
I got her phone number and put it in my phone, had her spell out her name, we spent another five minutes talking and then parted ways; I went and talked to some other women in the meetup.
TEXTING
4/9
Me 2304: Amanda - hey! Nice meeting you, and looking forward to coffee soon. Save my number...-Osman
4/10
HER 0719: It was good to talk to you. Coffee soon.
<later in the evening SHE initiated>
HER 2212: What's your sat look like. About 5 or 6? Want to grab coffee and talk intensely? ;-)
Me 2231: Haha, that is funny. Yes, I want to grab coffee, but I'm traveling on business fri-sun. Maybe Sunday evening, or next week?
HER 2232: Next week sounds great.
HER 2232: Safe trip.
Me 2237: Cool, I hope you have a nice, intense weekend, A
HER 2238: Ha. I will do my best.
4/11
<Upon a business trip cancellation I decided to contact her once again>
Me 1039: My trip got moved to next weekend. Coffee sat?
HER 1207: Well, I suppose I can't go back on my word now ;-)
Me 1236: You can do whatever you like, actually.
HER 1306: Do you do whatever you like?
Me 1309: I am living life on my own terms. What about you?
HER 1315: Happy to hear it.
HER 1316: It's my intention also. Jury is still out.
<The conversation got sidetracked slightly for a few threads>
HER 1429: Coffee is a fabulous start.
Me 2027: How about MUD on 9th St and 2nd Av, 5pm tomorrow?
HER 2342: It's looking like 5 isn't going to work now. Are you available later? 7ish?
4/12
Me 1152: When you get there tonight I'll meet you by the front door. How does that sound?
Me 1152: Yeah 7 is good
HER 1228: Perfect
COFFEE DATE, SATURDAY EVENING
She ended up running behind schedule quite profusely but did text me at 1800 to warn me that she's running behind about half an hour. This was fine for me, as I got to run some errands and read a book. When she showed up about 40 minutes late, she apologized quite a bit but was also extremely excited to see me, and looked better than I remember. Beautiful black dress, bright green eyes and auburn-brunette hair. From what I could tell, a fairly nice chest.
Our conversation was great! We were in that place for about two hours, and talked about:
- How we got to our respective places in life
- Embarking on a new road to spiritual growth and self improvement (as it turns out, she's also been through a recent rough patch and is making many changes to her life)
- She shared that she's been in relationships for the last seven years of her life (2 years and 5 years) and just ended one with a guy she's not sure about, because there are still lingering feelings there.
- It turns out we live five-ten minutes from each other in the suburbs. This is extremely rare in my area; I've been living there the last six months and have yet to meet a girl who lives that close by.
- How we got into our careers and what inspired her to do what she does. It turns out she's an English professor at a community college, has a PhD, and essentially enjoys teaching students about the finesse of storytelling. As you can then imagine, the conversation was quite fluid and intricate.
- She lives at home, like me; she's quite busy with a number of things outside work and rarely has time.
Nonverbal actions on my part went well. I used one of two sexual frames in this interaction (I no longer remember what they are) but they were well received. I focused more on portraying myself as a sexual man, and we spent a good portion of the date talking about sexuality quite openly. I told her that being single is great, that jealousy is bad (somehow that came up), that women's sexuality is horribly misunderstood and misrepresented here, that women are just as or more sexual than men but society seems to stand in the way of free expression, and some other bits.
About halfway through the date (she was sitting across from me and leaning in the entire time) I put my left hand on top of her right hand and lightly squeezed; this turned into moderately tight hand holding soon after, and she reciprocated and didn't feel discomfort as far as I can tell. I think she was more turned on, as she kept holding a very deep gaze and sometimes our conversation would die and this is what was left.
KISS CLOSE AND PARTING WAYS
As she lives about ten minutes from me, I inquired if she could give me a ride back as well. At first she accepted quite willingly, but then I did something stupid: I asked her if she was sure. In a very nice guy manner. And then she changed her mind - she said that actually, she'd rather go home by herself because she has lots of things on her mind that she'd like to think about. I persisted twice to try and get her to change her mind, but to no avail. I tried once more much later, but again at this point I had already bungled. Doh! She also said she needed to go home and cook for family coming over tomorrow morning. Considering that the time was about 9:30pm and she had an hour and a half ride home I am not sure how much cooking she was planning to get done.
I pay (despite her insistence that she pays part of it) and tell her that she can get it next time. The sexual vibe at this point was quite strong between us, it seemed. I've been on very few dates where the chemistry actually feels on a very level field, but this was one of them.
The walk to the subway station was quiet and tense with some kind of sexual energy. It was very subtle, but I've started to learn to recognize this feeling. It's awkward and uncomfortable, but it's exactly what you want. I didn't make any attempts at holding hands or anything of that sort, but I did lead her dominantly.
We walk to the subway and we wait for the train, which is coming in about six minutes. She starts talking for a few minutes about her ex boyfriend and her situation, and how she still has feelings for him. It was basically something about where she is in her life - having mixed feelings about still liking him deeply yet looking forward to being single, as she has never been single for the last seven years, and also that she wasn't sure what she was going to do - keep the current path or follow something new. I cannot remember the intricacies of what she was talking about anymore, but I do remember it was her talking and I was facing her, looking intently and deep into her eyes as she was saying everything. After a few minutes of her talking, she stopped and we then were just staring deep into each others eyes. There was this crazy tense pause that lasted a good ten seconds before I dominantly took one step towards her (closing the gap of two feet to about six inches), put my left hand around her lower back and pulled her into me to kiss.
Her eyes rolled up into the "kiss trance"...I'm sure some of you have seen this many times. I love watching it happen...it really does feel like women enter a different reality when it's done right. She attempted to go first, but I pulled back, let it sit in tension for another two seconds, and then we embraced for quite some time. Basically until the train pulled in and everyone on the platform was staring at us. And then when we let go, we continued to stare into each other's eyes and just started giggling uncontrollably as the train pulled in, at the same time. I've also never had this happen - it felt like very natural chemistry.
The subway ride was otherwise uneventful. At one point we were quite and she asked what's up:
We both got off at the same station but I had to head to a different train. I suggested we let the night continue, and she again declined. I kissed her dominantly again for about thirty seconds, then broke it off abruptly when I sensed that she wanted it to keep going. Then I said bye and left.
The next morning I texted as follows:
ATTEMPT TO SET UP DATE #2 AND REJECTION
In this situation, after speaking with TOOL I decided I wanted to try going for the hard sell, just to see if it might work. Unfortunately it backfired, and in retrospect that was expected. I just think there isn't much of anything I could have done - she has issues and she needs to resolve them, so timing is a problem in her life clearly. Yet, in some manners she still demonstrates a high degree of interest in her text (a.k.a. "I need time" and also "you're pretty kick ass!")
----
FR: J******
I went to a film screening in the city with my cousin's wife, for a microfinance foundation helping the impoverished in developing countries. I was hoping I'd get a chance to meet some women here, but naturally I sat down with my cousin and spent the first fifteen minutes before the film talking to her. I noticed two attractive women in my proximity - on immediately to my right with another girl friend of hers, and one woman who came all by herself sitting one row behind and to the right. This second girl is the one I wanted to meet. She was wearing a pretty black dress with pale beige leaf patterns throughout.
Anyway, the movie finished and there was a thirty minute Q/A session, and then the entire room disbanded. My target put on her jacket and left almost immediately; I said goodbye to my cousin saying that I had to run to another engagement (and I actually did have to do this and was about to be late) but timed it so that I exited right behind my target. As we're walking out of the theatre onto the street, her in front of me, I catch up next to her and preopen with the tap on the elbow. Though she moved away and looked at me in surprise, I told her that I really liked her dress and thought she looked very cute in it. She said thanks and then proceeded to tell me about how she's had it for forever, over five years. I joked that most of my clothes barely last two months, getting her to laugh, and we ended up walking down the street together for about five minutes in the same direction. This allowed me to deep dive and talk about the movie we just saw, and how it impacted us emotionally (I feel like details are pretty unnecessary here). When we got to my subway station (she was continuing onwards) I said I have to go, but I think that she's a really cool person based on what I've found out, and maybe we should get together for coffee one evening. She agreed and pretty excitedly gave me her phone number.
We then spent ANOTHER five minutes outside the station just chatting, and I learned that she works in private equity, is from Ohio (and doesn't miss it all that much), somehow wound up in my city and isn't really sure about staying in her field. It sounds actually like she wants to get out, but I got a chance to ask her a few things about it. At one point she remarked how sometimes she works 100 hour weeks and feels like it's making her look old. Clearly this was a set up of some kind, but I went along with it and told her "no, I can't see that, because actually you're very cute..." and left it trailing off. She looked at me quite deeply and intently, and we didn't say anything to each other while looking at each other for maybe five-ten seconds. <In retrospect, an excellent opportunity to kiss her>. I left it at coffee and texting her to figure out a time, and then we parted ways with me grabbing her gently on her elbow/arm.
TEXTING
4/8
Me 2256: J****** - hey! Nice meeting an Ohio enthusiast after tonight's film screening. Save my number...-Osman
HER 2257: See you around! And I don't hate Ohio I swear... <nearly INSTANT response!>
Me 2309: Why not? It's Ohio!
Me 2310: We can always ask Michigan for a second opinion though. Have a nice evening.
HER 0012: My bro is at OSU so I think I'm obligated in this situation to say that any opinion from Michigan can/should be disregarded.
HER 0013: Goodnight!
4/11
Me 1322: Hi J******. How's your week been? Thinking we should grab that coffee soon...how's your schedule looking?
HER 2056: Hey! Can't believe it's already the weekend - week flew by.
HER 2057: Coffee sounds great. When/where are you thinking? <Note that I already asked her schedule in my first text, so I ignored asking for it again in my reply and left it to her>
Me 2217: It really did! How about <CAFE> on <address>?
4/12
HER 1316: Sure! Maybe tomorrow afternoon if the weather holds up?
Me 1657: Tomorrow afternoon is looking good, how does 2 sound?
HER 1744: Works for me
Me 1806: Great. See you then, Jessica.
4/13
Me 1056: Hey J******, when you get to ___ I'll meet you by the front door.
HER 1201: Sounds good!
COFFEE DATE SUNDAY AFTERNOON
I ran a few minutes late but made sure to inform her, and when I got there I gave her a cheek kiss and a light arm tug. It was such a beautiful day and very hot inside the coffee shop, so I suggested that we grab coffee and walk to the river and hang out there and talk. She excitedly agreed. Her demeanor was very playful and inquisitive; she was wearing very plain clothes - yellow jeans and a black tank top. I asked her about all the trouble she got into today and she began to tell me about her weekend. She actually PAID for ME when we were getting coffee and politely refused my offer to split it.
The process here (as it happened) was:
- Grab coffee
- Walk to the park (about 15-20 minutes)
- Stroll along the river
- Sit on a bench and hang out
- Stroll back
- Grab macaroons
Deep Diving and Conversation Bits:
- Talking about growing up in Ohio and in our respective cities
- How she wound up in her career. It turns out she wanted to pursue medicine in college; then her dad stepped in and talked her out of it, and she pursued a career in accounting, then private equity instead, because of her dad as well as because of the lucrative aspect.
- There seemed to be an underlying tension between her and her relationship with her parents.
- She lives by herself in a studio in the city.
- She rarely goes outside that neighborhood and doesn't try too many new things; it turned out she had never explored the neighborhood I took her to, and it's also one of the most prominent areas in my city. I have never met someone that hasn't been around there.
- She seems to like quite a bit of tv and spends time watching Game of Thrones and such (in retrospect, this was the perfect opportunity to suggest we go watch that as a pull)
- Her love for food (and a mutual interest in checking out ramen places in the city)
- We talked a lot of our experiences with drinking and going out in the city.
- It turned out we had the same taste in music and spent a lot of time talking about music festivals.
- I didn't make many chase frames or sexual frames. In fact, the vibe between us was largely platonic and she didn't seem like the type that would accept anything more. I could have been completely wrong, as now I also sense that there's probably an inner rebel within her that hasn't been released, judging by her relationship with her parents.
- I tried to qualify sexuality but this didn't seem too well received.
As we're walking around the space between us was about half a foot. When we sat down on a bench to hang out, she was sitting about one foot away, but turned to face me 45 degrees and leaned in.
Though I had barely been touching her, over the course of the date I made it a point to cup her elbow once in a while, which soon moved to her lower back. When I did the latter, she commented that she feels her lower back is a bit sweaty.
I tried to suggest we go hang out longer on a grass patch by the river where a lot of people were having a picnic.
CLOSING OUT THE DATE
We walk to this place to get macaroons and I help her pick out the right things to get for her friends. I suggest we hang out longer, but she tells me she's going back home to do laundry for the next two hours and will then head to dinner with friends <WHICH SOUNDS LIKE A PERFECT SITUATION FOR FAST SEX!!! AUGH>. I did not attempt to invite myself over to hers. Now, up to this point the most physical contact I had been making is cupping her elbow with my hand whenever we made jokes and laughed on a high note.
On the walk over, on a high note after we'd just been laughing and walking together, her about a foot to my left, I took her hand and gently placed mine in it. She suddenly got slightly tense, and we had a five second pause that I broke by commenting "Yeah...I just did that" with a smile. This transitioned into an interlock very soon after, again initiated by me. Her grip wasn't firm, but it wasn't loose and uncomfortable either as far as I could tell, and she didn't try to pull away after that, not did she get any closer.
She commented very soon after that something like this:
I again suggested that we continue hanging out, but she politely declined.
<In retrospect, perhaps a good opportunity here would have been to suggest we go watch Game of Thrones at her place, but it did not occur to me at the time>
We talked about cool places to get ramen, and I suggested we get together during the week for dinner. She was very excited about it and started to suggest times and days, but I told her we can hold off and figure it out when we know our schedules better. When I closed, she moved in for a semi-close but semi-distant hug with her hands around my mid-lower back. I reciprocated by pulling her in with my left arm on her lower back and kissing her on the cheek gently. We again talked for another minute and I did the same thing (cheek kiss + hand on lower back) as I pulled away and walked in a different direction.
At the very end of it I made sure to text her this correspondence:
Me 1823: Thanks for coming out, J******. It was enjoyable.
Unfortunately she never replied, indicating that something didn't quite click in that situation.
ATTEMPT TO SET UP DATE #2 AND REJECTION
So logistics are quite terrible for me; I no longer have a place to take these women until the middle of next month. Additionally, my gut feeling with this one was her inexperience and a conservative background, so I held off on trying to go back to her place or be overtly sexual. However, I did want to polarize her and make absolutely clear that my intentions were romantic and sexual, and not simply friendly. I think I did succeed in that, albeit at the expense of potentially scaring her away.
4/15
Me 1638: Hi J******, how'd Game of Thrones night (and the cheetos) turn out? Thinking we should grab ramen one evening - how's your schedule looking?
4/16
HER 1507: Game of thrones was great! Though now I'm all antsy waiting for the next ep. The Cheetos macarons were tasty but not at all Cheetos like...
HER 1509: I actually just went to totto this week with coworkers so I think I'm gonna pass on ly
HER 1511: I had a fun time on Sunday- but I think we may be on different pages
HER 1511: Have a safe trip down to Florida! <She remembered I am traveling on business this weekend>
4/18
Me 0805: Did you try out the new Totto location? I had fun on Sunday as well; hope you enjoy this weekend, and are probably even more antsy now about your next episode of GoT
This is where this is right now, and she has not yet replied, nor do I expect her to.
----
QUESTIONS:
1. What is going on with these women? Is it an inexperience talking, or did I approach them in the wrong way by setting relationship expectations rather than sexual expectations? One element I am still pretty terrible at is setting chase frames and sexual frames effectively; while I employed it somewhat with A*****, I did not use it as much on J****** and instead with her I went slower and really eased into it.
2. Judging by the responses that they gave, A***** made a concrete decision while J****** did not - though she feels like we are on different pages, her long ass response to my very short text either feels like a *very nice* rejection (as would be expected from an inexperienced girl) or a slight hint of interest. Which is it?
3. Are my comments/retrospective analysis correct? Were there escalation windows and opportunities for chase/sexual frames that I am missing?
4. Where were the opportunities to be more sexual, especially with the second woman. I definitely and deliberately held back with her, just based on a feel of inexperience and conservatism, but I am not sure if this was or wasn't appropriate.
Thank you all.
