Long-time lurker on the site. This is my first post. Lots of appreciation to Chase and all the others here. What I have learned here has been tremendous in improving my success with women, so thank you all.
Sorry this will be long, but I would really appreciate if any of you brothers have any advice. First though, the very short version:
TL;DR: I became extremely close friends with a girl (23) much younger than myself (36) whom I friendzoned early on for several reasons, but have recently decided I want to sleep with. In many ways it feels like this should not be difficult to do, but I want to tread carefully (for reasons that will become clear in the below) while maximising my chances of bedding her.
The long version: We both live abroad. She moved to the town I have lived in for nearly three years about five months ago. I met her early on and we hit it off straight away. At first I did not know her age (but assumed she was a bit younger), but the first time we met had a great time as we have a lot of shared life experiences (rare for both of us given our quite unique backgrounds), similar values and views on many topics and had incredibly fun conversations while both being quite flirtatious. The second time we met, we ended up back in my house where I realised her age (much younger than I thought), which is below my line of “too young”. We proceeded to talk, put a film on, then she cuddled up to me, kissed my cheek and neck, then I pulled away and effectively friendzoned her citing the age difference. We had a short conversation about it, I called her a taxi home (offered for her to stay on the couch, but she declined), then saw each other the next day in a group setting and there was no awkwardness. On just a few occasions soon after there were times that we would be isolated and she would start trying to escalate things physically again, and I again told her we will never hook up because the age gap is too big, and after this it seemed to finally sink in and despite becoming very “intimate” intellectually and emotionally, and being very physical with each other in a platonic way, she has not since tried to escalate things physically (beyond lighthearted joking and flirting, which is pretty common with us).
She later told me that she has severe trust issues with men due to an abusive background. Despite being fairly prolific sexually, she has only ever had one boyfriend (5 years older than her) that she says she had a great relationship with. It was an open relationship of one year and never got that ‘serious’ although she says he is a really wonderful guy (that she has a few times said is very similar to me). She told me that apart from him, I am one of the only men in her lifetime that she has become close to that she feels has also treated her with respect. This made me more convinced that I had done the right thing in not pursuing anything sexual with her, and we proceeded to become even closer, to the point that we were spending almost every day together for about two months. We have gone on two holidays abroad together and had an incredible time. I do not feel the age difference with her (yet anyway) as she is in many ways very mature for her age. She left home at 17 and has been supporting herself since. We simply connect extremely deeply and have a wonderful time whenever we are together.
She has been very supportive of me through some tough things I have gone through since we met, as I have her. Both of us have had a number of big (negative) life events happen throughout this time period that have brought us closer. Both of us have said numerous times how this is one of the greatest relationships we have had in our lives (which is strange given the circumstance and how relatively short it’s been, but completely true). We truly adore one another and get on incredibly well. She has said several times that she wants me in her life forever. In the past month or so, it has started to feel like we are in a serious relationship, despite never having had sex, something we have openly said to each other. We still flirt and joke about sex with each other and have slept in the same bed countless times cuddling, but without anything escalating sexually in the past few months.
Since we met, she has had sex with a few guys close to her age, and for different reasons she didn’t take to any of them, one of the reasons being that she says she connects more with older people in general, not just intimately. I have had sex with just one girl since we met that she knows about. If relevant I have been in two non-monogamous relationships in the past and do not get jealous at all when dating. I genuinely was happy for her when she hooked up with the other guys, in one case even sort of wing-manning for her. For me the genuine emotional intimacy of a relationship (whether sexual or platonic) is totally separate from what people do sexually beyond that relationship, something she and I have talked about at length and are both on the same page about.
Nine days ago, she had to return to her home country for the somewhat sudden death of her mother. Her plan was to then work for eight months at her old job to return here with some decent savings, but she has been having a very difficult time understandably dealing with grief and some family issues that are erupting. She now says she wants to come back here in 3-5 weeks maximum, with me being not the main reason but a big factor. We message every day, have 2-4 hour video calls every second or third day, and she is regularly telling me how much she loves me and misses me.
All of our friends over the past 3+ months have told both of us how we are perfect for each other and should ignore the age difference and get on with a romantic relationship, something that has been pretty annoying for me and I imagine for her as well. Several people have assumed that we were already dating and were shocked to hear that we haven’t yet had sex based on how we appear in public. I have always brushed this aside and explained that there are more reasons than her age for why I felt I must keep things platonic. I genuinely up until recently had zero interest in having sex with this girl, despite loving that a part of the way we joke/tease each other is at times quite flirtatious.
Since she left though, there has been a giant shift in my perception of her for some reason. I have become aware of just how strong my feelings are for her, and for some reason am now starting to think “screw the age difference, it’s clearly not relevant given how close we are, so why not just unleash all the sexual tension that’s been building when she gets back here.”
I don’t know if her (what I am fairly certain was) physical attraction to me has waned over these past months given all I said to her about keeping things platonic. Maybe she is just repeating what I said, but she has told some people (in front of me) that I am too old for her. On the other hand, she has in the past month on a few occasions made jokes about how us having sex is “inevitable at some stage”, which I just laughed off. I recently have made a few new female friends here I have told her about, and she told me she was jealous (but still encouraged me to go for other girls if I am into them). When I follow up on this she just says she is afraid of us no longer being as close of friends when she gets back, which sounds frankly ridiculous given how close we are and the things we have said to one another about how much we value the other.
It is strange how I have gone from genuinely having zero interest in bedding this girl, to very much wanting to (not just for sex, but to see where the relationship may go). I am not saying we would take things too seriously at the start, but for me I now feel we simply have to try something more. I just don’t know how to play this one to maximise my chances of getting her to bed that first time, while also ensuring I continue to respect her the same way I always have.
If relevant, she has an avoidant attachment type (I am somewhere between secure and avoidant), we have similar love languages, and she is ESFP while I am ISFJ.
Sorry this will be long, but I would really appreciate if any of you brothers have any advice. First though, the very short version:
TL;DR: I became extremely close friends with a girl (23) much younger than myself (36) whom I friendzoned early on for several reasons, but have recently decided I want to sleep with. In many ways it feels like this should not be difficult to do, but I want to tread carefully (for reasons that will become clear in the below) while maximising my chances of bedding her.
The long version: We both live abroad. She moved to the town I have lived in for nearly three years about five months ago. I met her early on and we hit it off straight away. At first I did not know her age (but assumed she was a bit younger), but the first time we met had a great time as we have a lot of shared life experiences (rare for both of us given our quite unique backgrounds), similar values and views on many topics and had incredibly fun conversations while both being quite flirtatious. The second time we met, we ended up back in my house where I realised her age (much younger than I thought), which is below my line of “too young”. We proceeded to talk, put a film on, then she cuddled up to me, kissed my cheek and neck, then I pulled away and effectively friendzoned her citing the age difference. We had a short conversation about it, I called her a taxi home (offered for her to stay on the couch, but she declined), then saw each other the next day in a group setting and there was no awkwardness. On just a few occasions soon after there were times that we would be isolated and she would start trying to escalate things physically again, and I again told her we will never hook up because the age gap is too big, and after this it seemed to finally sink in and despite becoming very “intimate” intellectually and emotionally, and being very physical with each other in a platonic way, she has not since tried to escalate things physically (beyond lighthearted joking and flirting, which is pretty common with us).
She later told me that she has severe trust issues with men due to an abusive background. Despite being fairly prolific sexually, she has only ever had one boyfriend (5 years older than her) that she says she had a great relationship with. It was an open relationship of one year and never got that ‘serious’ although she says he is a really wonderful guy (that she has a few times said is very similar to me). She told me that apart from him, I am one of the only men in her lifetime that she has become close to that she feels has also treated her with respect. This made me more convinced that I had done the right thing in not pursuing anything sexual with her, and we proceeded to become even closer, to the point that we were spending almost every day together for about two months. We have gone on two holidays abroad together and had an incredible time. I do not feel the age difference with her (yet anyway) as she is in many ways very mature for her age. She left home at 17 and has been supporting herself since. We simply connect extremely deeply and have a wonderful time whenever we are together.
She has been very supportive of me through some tough things I have gone through since we met, as I have her. Both of us have had a number of big (negative) life events happen throughout this time period that have brought us closer. Both of us have said numerous times how this is one of the greatest relationships we have had in our lives (which is strange given the circumstance and how relatively short it’s been, but completely true). We truly adore one another and get on incredibly well. She has said several times that she wants me in her life forever. In the past month or so, it has started to feel like we are in a serious relationship, despite never having had sex, something we have openly said to each other. We still flirt and joke about sex with each other and have slept in the same bed countless times cuddling, but without anything escalating sexually in the past few months.
Since we met, she has had sex with a few guys close to her age, and for different reasons she didn’t take to any of them, one of the reasons being that she says she connects more with older people in general, not just intimately. I have had sex with just one girl since we met that she knows about. If relevant I have been in two non-monogamous relationships in the past and do not get jealous at all when dating. I genuinely was happy for her when she hooked up with the other guys, in one case even sort of wing-manning for her. For me the genuine emotional intimacy of a relationship (whether sexual or platonic) is totally separate from what people do sexually beyond that relationship, something she and I have talked about at length and are both on the same page about.
Nine days ago, she had to return to her home country for the somewhat sudden death of her mother. Her plan was to then work for eight months at her old job to return here with some decent savings, but she has been having a very difficult time understandably dealing with grief and some family issues that are erupting. She now says she wants to come back here in 3-5 weeks maximum, with me being not the main reason but a big factor. We message every day, have 2-4 hour video calls every second or third day, and she is regularly telling me how much she loves me and misses me.
All of our friends over the past 3+ months have told both of us how we are perfect for each other and should ignore the age difference and get on with a romantic relationship, something that has been pretty annoying for me and I imagine for her as well. Several people have assumed that we were already dating and were shocked to hear that we haven’t yet had sex based on how we appear in public. I have always brushed this aside and explained that there are more reasons than her age for why I felt I must keep things platonic. I genuinely up until recently had zero interest in having sex with this girl, despite loving that a part of the way we joke/tease each other is at times quite flirtatious.
Since she left though, there has been a giant shift in my perception of her for some reason. I have become aware of just how strong my feelings are for her, and for some reason am now starting to think “screw the age difference, it’s clearly not relevant given how close we are, so why not just unleash all the sexual tension that’s been building when she gets back here.”
I don’t know if her (what I am fairly certain was) physical attraction to me has waned over these past months given all I said to her about keeping things platonic. Maybe she is just repeating what I said, but she has told some people (in front of me) that I am too old for her. On the other hand, she has in the past month on a few occasions made jokes about how us having sex is “inevitable at some stage”, which I just laughed off. I recently have made a few new female friends here I have told her about, and she told me she was jealous (but still encouraged me to go for other girls if I am into them). When I follow up on this she just says she is afraid of us no longer being as close of friends when she gets back, which sounds frankly ridiculous given how close we are and the things we have said to one another about how much we value the other.
It is strange how I have gone from genuinely having zero interest in bedding this girl, to very much wanting to (not just for sex, but to see where the relationship may go). I am not saying we would take things too seriously at the start, but for me I now feel we simply have to try something more. I just don’t know how to play this one to maximise my chances of getting her to bed that first time, while also ensuring I continue to respect her the same way I always have.
If relevant, she has an avoidant attachment type (I am somewhere between secure and avoidant), we have similar love languages, and she is ESFP while I am ISFJ.
