Game... What you do or who you are?...

[Mr.Rob]

Just got finished listening to a podcast by Sasha Daygame featuring Marcus Oakey, a charisma coach. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lol7yxdQuFk It actually had some really insightful tips/tidbits (on conversation) and funny social freedom stories. Towards the end they started talking about how a lot of guys do this thing where they plan on going out to meet women at a certain time and date and how weird that is. Having a certain time to go practice game. While instead one should always be practicing game and talking to whomever you wish to chat up (whether it be a cute girl or some old geezer with a cool hat on) when you're out and about.

I have to agree personally. For one you stay sharp and keep A.A. at bay. For two you start getting a lot more natural vibe when you do go chat up women since your chatting everyone up all the time, thus making it simply natural that you'd chat up a hot girl. In fact it might be weird if you didn't. I think this is the essence of creating the "sexy talkative vibe" Chase talked about in one of his recent articles. Assuming your not some friendly overtalkative guy overproviding good feelings (or annoying feelings if your socially uncalibrated).

Or even worse if you do night game having the on/off switch for your game. Going around minding your business and keeping to yourself all day when your out and about. Then once you get to the bar/nightclub you decided to turn your on switch on and start chatting up every cute girl in sight and it just comes off as more unauthentic.

My question to whomever cares to read what I write is... dun dun.. Which one are you and do you agree with this?

Perhaps you need to quit being an DICK and chat people up more often. Improve other peoples days around you... don't contribute to the lack of social connection that plagues our society these days.
Just my opinion, maybe people like going to Walmart and ignoring everyone around them/being sure not to make eye contact with anyone cause it might be... holy shit... awkward. lol

-Rob

 

[Grand Pooba]

I'm not sure which strategy is better, but certainly when I first started out on the boards and learning I'd set aside time and it would be more on/off; more recently I've been trying to do the second strategy and talk to both guys and girls and just generally be sociable at all different times of day, at least when I'm in the mood. If I'm not in the mood to go meet people then I don't do it.

What I have noticed, though, is that doing it the on/off way "What you do," because it is more focused, helps me pick up far more patterns in interactions than the second strategy "who you are." Learning that helps me understand it better for when I'm not trying to deliberately practice and instead am just being normally social, and so...

I think perhaps mixing the two strategies might be the best way: be social all the time to get comfortable with talking to people and getting rid of AA, but as you learn more and more, still continue to "turn on" and deliberately practice for the sake of mastering certain methods and techniques (targeted practice) that you can then apply to regular/daily/normal interactions as you recognize what to look for and what to do.

 

[Pato]

Rob,

I was just thinking about this kind of thing too. Good timing to put this up.

Towards the end they started talking about how a lot of guys do this thing where they plan on going out to meet women at a certain time and date and how weird that is. Having a certain time to go practice game. While instead one should always be practicing game and talking to whomever you wish to chat up (whether it be a cute girl or some old geezer with a cool hat on) when you're out and about.

I have to agree personally. For one you stay sharp and keep A.A. at bay. For two you start getting a lot more natural vibe when you do go chat up women since your chatting everyone up all the time, thus making it simply natural that you'd chat up a hot girl. In fact it might be weird if you didn't. I think this is the essence of creating the "sexy talkative vibe" Chase talked about in one of his recent articles. Assuming your not some friendly overtalkative guy overproviding good feelings (or annoying feelings if your socially uncalibrated).

Or even worse if you do night game having the on/off switch for your game. Going around minding your business and keeping to yourself all day when your out and about. Then once you get to the bar/nightclub you decided to turn your on switch on and start chatting up every cute girl in sight and it just comes off as more unauthentic.

Didn't watch the podcast, but I'd have to say I'd agree with this for the most part. If you're just a very social person who chats people up and meets new people all the time, it definitely makes it easier to talk to hot girls naturally. I do think that you should always be in the "game" mindset, just because you never know when a situation is going to come up. And over time it just makes you become naturally more attractive and sexy if you're always in that mindset or in the zone. Kinda like always trying to improve your fundamentals. So wherever you are or whatever you're doing, you should always try to be prepared to open and meet new women. Obviously you can't and won't always open while you are doing something, but it will start to become instinct to open a cute girl you see no matter where you are.

The only thing I'd say is that going out specifically to meet women isn't necessarily a bad or weird thing. If you are a person who doesn't really have a life that is conducive to meeting new attractive women with a lot of turnover, then going out solely to meet girls can sometimes be your only/best option. Especially for beginners, I think going out with the sole purpose of meeting women is the best for improving. That way they can hold themselves accountable for how many girls they've opened, how the interactions went, and such. I think some beginners (I'm guilty of this as well) will get "distracted" by what they are doing and use that as an excuse not to open. I guess once you're far advanced enough to just naturally do it all the time (something you are), that may work, but setting aside time (something you do) is probably better for improving your game.

Interesting stuff here. I'll have to check out the podcast when I get the chance.

-Pato

 

[Mr.Rob]

Hmm. Interesting points made but I have to say I disagree. It's kind of the same thing that Chase was talking about in naturals vs. PUA's is how naturals just chat whomever they see fit up to enjoy themselves. This doesn't mean you have to chat up everyone that passes your way you could even only chat up hot girls if your not feeling especially chatty.

I also disagree with the fact that you can't deliberately practice when you're chatting everyone up. In fact I think you can deliberately practice better when you going out to have fun and chat people up (obviously being prepared to lead an interaction with a hot girl if she bites). For one you can work on your overall vibe better and practice emoting a certain emotional state with everyone you meet. For two you just switch into deliberate practice mode when you go chat up a girl just pull your list out with goals for the day and then do them.. except now your a.a. is lessened and you feel good so your better prepared for things to go well (or awry).

For three an most importantly is it helps you become a lot more outcome independent when your goal is changed from "I need to get 3 numbers today and one instant date that I can hopefully lead to sex" to "I'm just going to go sharpen my social skills and share some good vibes with people, if I chat up some girl I like and she digs me I'll see how far I can take it". I think this is pretty important since most PUAs always have a goal in mind that their trying to achieve and when you chat girls up like that they can sense your semi-secret motive that your stating. Example: You present yourself as a guy that is curious about some girl and appears to just want to get to know her and see what happens when in reality your trying to get sex from her and that's all you really care about.

Perhaps that's a bad example but does that make sense? Your thoughts?

-Rob

 

[Marty]

Rob:

I play it both ways, and I definitely agree with this point of Pato's:

it will start to become instinct to open a cute girl you see no matter where you are.

Totally. However, maybe it's just me but I have to say the following definitely would NOT work for me:

just generally be sociable at all different times of day, at least when I'm in the mood.

If you're just a very social person who chats people up and meets new people all the time

if your not feeling especially chatty.

There is no way I would ever want to be in a "chatty" or "talkative" mood when opening a girl; that would play hell with my game. It might give the impression that I am being friendly and social, which is something I avoid at all costs—if I hit on a girl, she damn well knows she's being hit on!

Maybe it's just a question of style, but I couldn't see myself transitioning from a fun, social vibe to a pickup attempt, ever, especially because that would entail speaking far too many words per minute when what I want to be doing at that moment is projecting a calm, self-assured air of authority and getting the girl to do the talking.

-Marty

 

[Grand Pooba]

Rob,

I definitely see your points.

I also disagree with the fact that you can't deliberately practice when you're chatting everyone up. In fact I think you can deliberately practice better when you going out to have fun and chat people up (obviously being prepared to lead an interaction with a hot girl if she bites). For one you can work on your overall vibe better and practice emoting a certain emotional state with everyone you meet. For two you just switch into deliberate practice mode when you go chat up a girl just pull your list out with goals for the day and then do them.. except now your a.a. is lessened and you feel good so your better prepared for things to go well (or awry).

Okay, yeah, I get this, and definitely I go out and talk to random people just for the sake of this: staying positive, optimistic, and having a good spirit. It's true.

Can I also add that, generally, I've received somewhat better responses from women as of late when I'm NOT actively trying, than when I AM? It's bizarre but for some reason (maybe law of least effort) I'm doing better the less gamey I am.

For three an most importantly is it helps you become a lot more outcome independent when your goal is changed from "I need to get 3 numbers today and one instant date that I can hopefully lead to sex" to "I'm just going to go sharpen my social skills and share some good vibes with people, if I chat up some girl I like and she digs me I'll see how far I can take it". I think this is pretty important since most PUAs always have a goal in mind that their trying to achieve and when you chat girls up like that they can sense your semi-secret motive that your stating. Example: You present yourself as a guy that is curious about some girl and appears to just want to get to know her and see what happens when in reality your trying to get sex from her and that's all you really care about.

For my own very specific personality, I have this habitual problem of missing signals of all kinds. One of the reasons I'm here on GC is because a few years ago I was getting advances from girls all over the place, but because I wasn't in the mindset of going out to meet them or trying to have sex with them, I ignored these or treated them as friendly or awkward when they happened. Some of these were very, very obvious...like a (very cute) girl I was interested in basically grabbing me and pushing me against a wall and wanting me to kiss her (our noses like an inch apart) and talking about how close my place is and how she might get home the next morning, but I stalled and stalled until she autorejected, walked away and I realized what was happening five minutes later. My point is that for me and perhaps just my personality specifically, I don't notice girl's reactions or interest levels, or pursue sex with them, unless I actively put myself in some kind of mode or zone. I think this is an inner issue to work through.

What I'd like to work towards doing is making this mode and zone my de-factor modus operandi - learn GC and make that and apply that to who I am, so that it comes off as natural and not like a PUA. Like what you said here, actually:

"I'm just going to go sharpen my social skills and share some good vibes with people, if I chat up some girl I like and she digs me I'll see how far I can take it".

 

[PinotNoir]

I tend to think both are good to do in combination, and there are pros and cons to both.

For complete beginners, if you only approach when just hanging out, you can create a lot of excuses. "I would approach her... but, I just want to have fun tonight." "I can't think of anything good to say, maybe next time."

Having a day and time means that you must approach. You set goals of opening X amount of girls, etc. You're also more in control. You decide what you wear before leaving, and if you're feeling lonely, you can decide to go out 3 times a week (instead of limited by friends/occasions). You decide what venues you'll go to, and you'll know which venues have the girls that you'll most likely like. For beginners, I think this is a much better way to start off and get over approach anxiety.

Once you move past beginner, then "being" should be more of the focus than "doing." Your good style, smoothness/sexiness, aura, conversational abilities can then be you. For example, when you first start learning something or doing something, like playing a sport or learning a language, you set certain days to study/train and goals. Eventually, it becomes who you are, and you're constantly thinking about it in your head. Any activity that you do reaches back to that point.

Another issue is time and personality. Sure, I could chat up everyone I meet and try my best to learn about them and create memorable conversation, but that is a lot of time to do that constantly. And with personality, I don't want to meet and converse with everyone. I'm not a social butterfly; it's just not who I am.

I think "Being" should be the goal, but a combination of "Doing" and "Being" is necessary to get there, and "Being" doesn't mean having to be a social butterfly, but just not letting any opportunity pass and always trying to be the sexiest/most-charismatic version of yourself (not someone else).

 

[Franco]

For complete beginners, if you only approach when just hanging out, you can create a lot of excuses. "I would approach her... but, I just want to have fun tonight." "I can't think of anything good to say, maybe next time."

Having a day and time means that you must approach. You set goals of opening X amount of girls, etc. You're also more in control. You decide what you wear before leaving, and if you're feeling lonely, you can decide to go out 3 times a week (instead of limited by friends/occasions). You decide what venues you'll go to, and you'll know which venues have the girls that you'll most likely like. For beginners, I think this is a much better way to start off and get over approach anxiety.

As someone who's biggest hurdle in seduction was A.A., I primarily have to agree with Pinot here.

If you don't set aside times to do exactly what it is you're trying to do, you'll create way too many excuses for yourself to not actually do it. You need to be disciplined if you really want to improve (especially at a fast rate).

That being said, I think you should practice socializing with people on your own "non-seduction" time if you're generally an introverted individual. As NarrowJ pointed out on his possibly underrated article about mental agility, you need to constantly be socializing with people while being simultaneously non-judgmental to increase your "worldliness" and broad knowledge on tons of different topics. You'll often have a lot more insightful, funny, and interesting things to say to women if you've been interacting with individuals on a regular basis.

If you're a social individual by nature, then interacting with people during your normal day isn't something you'll really need to focus on because it's likely something you will be doing anyway. So personally, my advice is that it's always best to set aside some times to focus 100% on improving with women, otherwise you'll never really give it your full attention, and it will be too easy to make excuses for why you "shouldn't" approach that girl or "call the night early."

That's my two cents!

- Franco

 

[TheWiseFool]

Ozzo,

Your post describes my life...

- TWF

 

[Mr.Rob]

First I have to clear up my thoughts because I totally agree with the fact that when starting out it's good to be disciplined and schedule when and how many girls you want to open in order to get yourself doing it and push your limits. But that also comes back to the title of the post which is who you are vs. what you do. When we all first started out it was something we did because it wasn't something we were. We weren't the type of people that would go up and tell sexy women how we feel about them. But we did become those people (in my case becoming). You can't be something your not but you can become whomever you choose.

I initially was thinking to direct this post to people that are already in the habit of approaching and have success of somewhat to compare to in order to be confident/competent enough to engage on a regular basis. I guess an easy way to say it is after you get over A.A. and approach on a regular basis.

What I'm getting at is now that you're more or less comfortable with the idea of approaching women is this still something you wake up in the morning and say "Well at 12:00 today I'm going to go to the mall and approach 10 girls!" . Because then you aren't really coming from a place of enjoyment or natural spontaneity but continuing your routine or discipline. And maybe this is just how it seems to me, but I don't think you aren't coming from a place of enjoyment or wanting to share good vibes but making game more like it's your job or something. When this stuff is your job you become a salesman and then you're trying to get women to buy your product... which in a way is true we are marketing ourselves to women but wouldn't it be a better marketing strategy to come from a place of giving (being giving an inspirational experience that men from their fantasies exist, not all men are complete pussies anymore, along with a sensational sexual experience to give them happy thoughts for the next couple months/years/lifetimes) than a place of taking (being taking and conquering women for the sake of accomplishing a lay or some other short term goal you have in mind leaving both parities with a sense of not feeling "full").

Also let me say this, in reference to Chases last article on what makes a truly respected man, that I don't have enough reference points from either side to say that yes this way works better than this way or it depends on your personality to determine which strategy is better. So please don't label me as the guy that is just buying into some bullshit that some PU guru is spitting out because while I have done both ways (I'm in the process still of this becoming who I am) I'm speculating for the most part. I'm speculating because it sounds quite insightful, and like the rest of you, I want to do this shit right and with the right motives and intentions that best benefit both parties (lol this is my Libra side coming through, trying to find the perfect balance to everything).

To me making game who you are and not just a switch you turn on and off is the best way to go about this since then you just spontaneously chat up a hot girl because like someone said earlier "it becomes a reflex" and when that happens everything is natural just like the way it's supposed to be.

 

[Mr.Rob]

In response to Mr. Marty, Mr. Ozzo, and Mr. Pinot Noir (just cause I'm Mr. Rob.. couldn't resist plus you sound more formal

Yall were talking about how you wouldn't want to Mr. Super Chatty Man, at least not all the time. And I totally understand and even don't want to be that guy all the time as well. I don't have enough energy to do that as well so I have to agree. Though I'm talking all this shit on game being who you are, I'm coming from the inference that you can game on different energy levels (perhaps I should've made this more clear originally, I always forget a tangent of thought to go on when I write and speak). For example you can be mr. talkative chatting up everyone or mr. smooth engaging with whomever crosses your path that you feel needs addressing. For Mr. Smooth that could be 1 person in a day or 20 depending on what type of shit Mr. Smooth is up to. Or even Mr. Brooding that doesn't game until someone approaches him but "games" whomever comes up to give him a piece of their mind. In fact this is a part of game is your vibe and I guess I was using that example as reference to me trying to take on a more talkative sexy vibe so apologies for the misconception (is that the right word?.. whatever).

In fact Pinot Noir summed it up pretty perfectly:

I think "Being" should be the goal, but a combination of "Doing" and "Being" is necessary to get there, and "Being" doesn't mean having to be a social butterfly, but just not letting any opportunity pass and always trying to be the sexiest/most-charismatic version of yourself (not someone else).

Cool thoughts guys enjoyed reading them.

-Rob

 

[Franco]

Rob,

There's a lot of nuances to this and I don't think it's quite as clear-cut as you'd like it to be. For example, when I was last single, I wasn't really "scheduling" specific times anymore to go and pick up women to bring home. At this point, I just knew that when I went out, I would likely approach any women that appeared attractive and begin to move things forward with them.

However, I did have to push myself to do this on weekends when I would be going out with my friends. I combined my "fun" events that I would attend with friends with picking up women (which involves obviously going to social events or clubs/bars, otherwise you won't find any women to meet). But I knew that when I did go out, it would be my only opportunity of the week to meet some new women, and this is because my life during the week had become way too busy to schedule meeting new women during the week. What I did know was that I was usually not too satisfied going through an entire week without any women to spend some time with. I learned this early on when I was only having "partial" success with women and when I was only sleeping with women on a rather irregular basis.

So when it comes down to it, if you really want to have women constantly rotating in your life (or at least be meeting enough women that you can find one that is worth keeping around for awhile), you're going to have to set aside some time to actually make that happen.

Now, it's possible that maybe you have a schedule or career that allows for meeting new women more freely (as in, maybe you get to travel often and stay in new cities often, or maybe you get long breaks where you can hang out at a mall or food court or check out places in between working), but that is not my case, and I know my only free time comes between Friday night and Sunday evening. Other than that, I'm only left with whatever women I met during the weekend or whatever women I am already seeing. If I didn't meet any women on the weekend, and I wasn't already seeing any, then I would be left with a week without women. It was as simple as that.

I never see women as some type of "goal" that I have to accomplish or "achievement" that I have to conquer -- I simply enjoy spending time with women over many other things when I have the time for it. And for a woman who thinks extremely highly of you, spending time with you may be the ONLY thing she really wants to do that week, so you may be making her entire week just by seeing her for one night. So it's a mutual exchange of good emotions and feelings, and every human being wants to be able to share those feelings.

Also, I'd like to take a moment to mention that the word "Game" seems to be creeping up on this forum a lot more lately. So let me slap this down now before it continues to progress: Chase does not teach you "game" or "pick-up artist" techniques. He teaches you how to become a man so that you can be in control of yourself and your personal life. When I go out to meet women, I am an experienced, genuine man who is going out to make some girl's fantasies come true. I am not some guy practicing some "sport" for my own self-amusement. This is a website based on making you a better person; there is no "Game" involved from my perspective. =)

- Franco

 

[Pato]

Franco,

Also, I'd like to take a moment to mention that the word "Game" seems to be creeping up on this forum a lot more lately. So let me slap this down now before it continues to progress: Chase does not teach you "game" or "pick-up artist" techniques. He teaches you how to become a man so that you can be in control of yourself and your personal life. When I go out to meet women, I am an experienced, genuine man who is going out to make some girl's fantasies come true. I am not some guy practicing some "sport" for my own self-amusement. This is a website based on making you a better person; there is no "Game" involved from my perspective. =)

This makes perfect sense, and I definitely agree. I feel like everything I've learned from this site has made me a new and improved, better version of me (but not that I'm "gaming" girls). I don't know why, but I feel that (to me at least) the terms "game/gaming" and "pick-up artist" haves negative connotation to them. Almost like you aren't being yourself and that you are almost manipulating the women you sleep with, instead of fulfilling their fantasies. I guess sometimes I'll throw "game" out there to describe where I've improved and where I'm still lacking in situations with girls, but I do feel like it has a bad kind of feel to it. Is that just me?

GC, thankfully, was really the first site I found that was dedicated to improving with women, so I don't really know what other PUA groups are like. How are they different and what are some of these techniques used by other sites and PUA's? I think it'd be interesting to hear what other groups are doing, why we don't do it here, and stuff like that.

-Pato

 

[Mr.Rob]

Franco,
I appreciate your subtle rebuke. After looking back on what I've wrote I'm seeing that part of what I wrote I don't personally even agree with. I'm doing a bad job of getting at what I'm trying to get at. Bear with me.
First of all

Franco wrote:
I never see women as some type of "goal" that I have to accomplish or "achievement" that I have to conquer -- I simply enjoy spending time with women over many other things when I have the time for it.

I hope you, along with the rest of yall reading, didn't take my last reply as me bashing you all as being that. In fact I think quite the opposite. I think you guys do exactly what I'm attempting to say "embodying approaching as a part of your being/personality rather than something you do for shits and giggles".

In fact

For example, when I was last single, I wasn't really "scheduling" specific times anymore to go and pick up women to bring home. At this point, I just knew that when I went out, I would likely approach any women that appeared attractive and begin to move things forward with them.

I think this embodies exactly what I'm trying to get at. This is you, Franco, being you: someone that approaches people out of interest or attraction (even if all those people happened to be women).

Your silent rebuke Franco got me thinking about the scheduling approaches thing. I do exactly that. It takes me 30 minutes + to go anywhere with an abundance (small abundance but abundance nonetheless). I know what days I'm free and have nothing going on in which I konw I'd like to chat up some women to hopefully bring one I like into my life. I also know what days I'll be in town for school and what I'll most likely do when I get out of class (go approach women). So I eat my words . A knife to my belly. Because

What I did know was that I was usually not too satisfied going through an entire week without any women to spend some time with. I learned this early on when I was only having "partial" success with women and when I was only sleeping with women on a rather irregular basis.

So when it comes down to it, if you really want to have women constantly rotating in your life (or at least be meeting enough women that you can find one that is worth keeping around for awhile), you're going to have to set aside some time to actually make that happen.

I totally agree and even with the tiny success that I have had I probably would have had 0 success doing it being "out and about".
It's a tad embarrassing but I think I got way to caught up on one thing that guy said just because it sounded good without actually thinking about how I really think about it.

After reading back over what I wrote I was basically saying "scheduling to meet women is bad because your coming from a place of taking rather than giving". Wow! How do these two things even relate to each other?! I wasn't thinking.

Though I did have one thing I was trying to get at by bringing up the topic in the first place in which I did a horrible job of communicating. That being making this who you are rather than something you do. Which is exactly what Chase talked about in Naturals vs. PUA's. His words exactly:

The Natural's Always Having a Good Time

He doesn't go out on a "mission" like a pickup artist does. And he isn't there just "to get laid." Sure, that may happen - and it may be a part of why he's there - but he isn't especially caught up on having it happen.

Would it be safe to say that this is ultimately what you want to aim for and what I was talking about when I referenced picking up women to marketing? Thus giving you real outcome independence. The fact of not viewing each interaction as another # ultimately getting you to your goal but as a genuine curiosity of the attractive specimen in front of you that you actually care to get make an effort to get to know.

Yes I realize this is exactly what GC teaches you to do and I also realize the podcast was bashing learning to become a PUA, which would not include us and what we're learning. So all in all it appears that what I wanted to say this whole time is really just me beating a dead horse on stuff we already mutually know and agree on, and me not really bringing anything new to the table. Except maybe a new perspective on an old concept.

Also, I'd like to take a moment to mention that the word "Game" seems to be creeping up on this forum a lot more lately. So let me slap this down now before it continues to progress: Chase does not teach you "game" or "pick-up artist" techniques. He teaches you how to become a man so that you can be in control of yourself and your personal life. When I go out to meet women, I am an experienced, genuine man who is going out to make some girl's fantasies come true. I am not some guy practicing some "sport" for my own self-amusement. This is a website based on making you a better person; there is no "Game" involved from my perspective. =)

I agree with this as well and didn't realize I was coming across meaning it this way. I think I was meaning approaching not "game".

Well I hope that cleared up what I was trying to get at. I will do better in the future of knowing what I'm talking about along with writing what I mean and meaning what I write

Cheers,
-Rob

 

[Franco]

I hope you, along with the rest of yall reading, didn't take my last reply as me bashing you all as being that. In fact I think quite the opposite. I think you guys do exactly what I'm attempting to say "embodying approaching as a part of your being/personality rather than something you do for shits and giggles".

No worries, Rob! I certainly didn't take it this way, and I just figured it would be a good opportunity to make some things clear for all members on the board in general. =)

The Natural's Always Having a Good Time

He doesn't go out on a "mission" like a pickup artist does. And he isn't there just "to get laid." Sure, that may happen - and it may be a part of why he's there - but he isn't especially caught up on having it happen.

Would it be safe to say that this is ultimately what you want to aim for and what I was talking about when I referenced picking up women to marketing? Thus giving you real outcome independence. The fact of not viewing each interaction as another # ultimately getting you to your goal but as a genuine curiosity of the attractive specimen in front of you that you actually care to get make an effort to get to know.

Well, to a certain degree, this is correct. However, I usually know before going out that I am going to take some time out of my day/night out to specifically meet women. I've had several times that I've gone out and didn't specifically at least set aside an hour to an hour and a half to meet women by the end of the night and I ended up getting caught up in whatever else was going on at the moment. I usually ended up regretting not approaching since I was hoping to meet new women by the end of the night.

This should be tweaked depending on your experience level, however. I've gotten to the point where I only need about an hour or an hour and half or so to do enough approaches that I feel comfortable enough to get some numbers and/or take home a woman that night. I needed basically the entire night when I was still learning, though. So you'll probably want to figure out how much time you think you need right now, and then as you get better, you can reduce that time so that you can spend more time going out and enjoying your night (like the Natural), and then spend only a small amount of time approaching women. I've been going to clubs/bars often for quite awhile now, and what I do notice is that the "naturals" usually start making their moves at the end of the night after they've had their fun and the women are a bit tipsy. It allows you to enjoy your entire night there and then approach women when they are giving their last-ditch effort to find a sexy guy.

So, make sure to attune your style to your experience/skill level so that you don't end up going home regretting that you didn't do enough approaching!

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Franco:

I've gotten to the point where I only need about an hour or an hour and half or so to do enough approaches that I feel comfortable enough to get some numbers and/or take home a woman that night. I needed basically the entire night when I was still learning, though.

It's good that you remember what it was like when you were starting out and tell people about it here on the forum, because it means that we can relate to it.

Actually, even though I probably need more time as a beginner, I typically only take an hour to an hour and a half out of each day to cold-approach girls; that usually results in one girl who opens for me, two if I'm lucky; I've had days when I've opened four or five but it's a rarity. Often, none will open. Like you were saying, I do sometimes feel in the frame of mind to stay out the whole day and keep approaching, but it isn't usually realistic in terms of other commitments (for example, employment).

There are exceptions—on a university campus, for example, there seems to be a slightly higher density of cute girls present than in most other day game venues, so it's possible to do more approaches in less time. However, students on campus tend to receive me a little less warmly on average (particularly undergraduates), for some reason, so that while I have a number close rate of just over 30% as a whole, it tends to be somewhat lower than that at universities. (Having said that, I did successfully number-close an 18-year-old girl in a college bookstore earlier today... it's nice when it does happen! )

I have no idea why this is but it might be that student life offers girls more sexual opportunities, so I'm up against greater competition. It could be that once they start work their time is more limited and they are more appreciative of the opening being handed to them out of the blue. That's pure conjecture, though.

-Marty