Girl asked me out, then she never followed through...

[carpedm]

In sumary, a girl I had been messaging with on FB (I haven't met her in person yet, but also did not meet her via online dating, but I'll spare you the details in an effort to be concise.) anyways, she asked me out "We should meet and talk, it's a long story haha." or something to that effect. Since then, we couldn't sync up our schedule right away because I had travel plans, so we decided to reconvene after the coming weekend. Sure enough, after no contact over the weekend (only use messaging/text to plan a meetup once rapport is established, which it had been...) she messaged me first thing Monday morning. We chit chatted briefly, and then I mentioned meeting up and she didn't reply back until hours later, saying she got busy (she own's her own company), and even then she ignored the meetup aspect of my message and just answered a different question. The conversation fizzled at that point. In a conscious effort not to chase her, I did not message her at all, and then she finally messaged me two days later inconveniently as I was leaving work, asking me "Are you going to be in my area today?" to which I replied "Yes. I'm leaving work now so I am logging off facebook. Text me when you can." She already had my phone number from way back when we first "met" in a business-customer context. She owns her own business.

She did not reply to that response of mine, nor did she ever text me. That was about a week and a half ago. Again, I have refrained from giving chase for all of the agreed upon reasons according to the GC philosophy--ultimately, the more I chase her, the further I run away from other more probable prospects, and the more my mindset slips towards thinking women of her caliber are scarce, which they most certainly are not in my city.

The question: While it is strongly and most fundamentally advised to not chase a girl, what harm could come from messaging her now, or some time soon, since a little bit of time has passed since we last spoke? I have been thinking about her less and less, if at all, and if I do message her, I would plan to be casual and the opposite of needy, and just spark conversation back up and say "hey how's it going?". They way I interpret her actions, or at least the way I choose to interpret her actions, is that she started to over-think the situation and got nervous about screwing things up. Not necessarily a good signal, as it points to her probably slotting me into "potential boyfriend" status, but that's a whole differnt bridge that I will cross when I get to it.

So, should I contact her? If so, when? And if so, any further advice on how to proceed in my persistent seduction efforts with her would be much appreciated.

 

[Estate]

To be honest it doesn't sound like you have hooked her in any way to really want to meet up.
Also, there doesn't seem to be any context for meeting up besides "I'm in the area"... what is she meeting you for?

So for that reason it's hard to tell if all is lost, or not. It could be.

I kinda feel like you might just need to go for broke and contact her while being direct: "Hey Sam, There's a new place down by the waterfront I heard does great Apps, come down with me Thursday evening and we'll grab a drink and check it out".
From there it's a yes or no. Don't add any filler for her to ignore and talk around it. You ask her directly... you're not asking "Hey, lets meetup sometimes...blah blah"... You pick a place and time, ask her to be there and it's up to her to either accept or decline.
From there she might say yes or no but at least at that point you get closure on whatever it is.

 

[carpedm]

Estate, your input is much appreciated, especially since you wrote a great response to my other post from yesterday. I am, however, hesitant to apply your suggested course of action. The reason is that if I suggest a specific time to meet for coffee or something to eat, she very well may legitimately have other plans. It is a much appreciated suggestion, though, as the only other option I can fathom is to do the old "Hey what's your schedule look like this week?"

I will think about it some more and weigh the potential responses from her. I do have closure in mind as my main goal, so you nailed that on the head. The more I think about it, actually, your idea could work out well too, because she very well may be available at that time and agree to meet up. And then besides that, there is the possibility she could still say she's busy at that time but then she might suggest another time, which would also be a positive outcome. So the more I think about it, I see more and more merit to your suggestion.

Just for some background information, which may sway you to believe that I have hooked her (though I'm not bigheadedly attached to that presumption), when she first suggested we meet, we discussed logistics and I suggested that we meet the following week for coffee or something to eat. She pushed it up to an earlier date, and asked me what I was doing that weekend. Unfortunately, I had travel plans so that was a no-go. Then, as I mentioned, she messaged me first thing on Monday morning, and even though after that point she began giving delayed message replies, she again followed up Wednesday and teased with showing some effort in actually coordinating a date.

To be honest, I pretty much immediately was able to realize how I potentially stifled her budding attraction and desire to meet in person-- it wasn't but a few short hours after she asked me out that I read a GC article explaining how to ask a girl out, and said article explicitly suggested to be very casual after soliciting an affirmative response to the open ended suggestion that "we go out sometime..." and proceed with the conversation unfazed, only to come back later on in the conversation to firm up a time and place to go out. The intent of this casualness is to subtly exhibit that you are experienced in this sort of thing and to also show her that the dynamic of your interaction hasn't been changed for the worse/awkward, which further indicates it will also be an enjoyable dynamic and energy during the date.

I, unfortunately, replied to her suggestion to meet and talk by saying "I'd like that. Let's get together next week. Coffee? Lunch?", and the conversation went on from there further into logistics. I didn't follow the GC advice because I hadn't read it yet, haha.

Also, rest assured that I am fully aware of the fact that there will soon come a point where it is time to cut her out of my mind completely and chalk it up as a loss, though I'd never burn the bridge with her verbally or otherwise, as ometimes fortune brings them back in the future of the girl's own accord. I am very much prepared to actively choose to forget her. I also expect that as my social skills progress over time and I become more proficient in attaining results with attractive girls, I will also become more efficient. When I reach that point, I'll likely look back at this post of mine and laugh at it as another tale of beginner's folly.

 

[Estate]

Thanks for the extra info man...

Here is what I think...
Unfortunately if plans get rescheduled a number of times people often begin to flake since it feels like it's not happening... like if she is really interested and suggests something but then you genuinely can't then when people don't know each other well it is difficult to distinguish if it was genuine or a blow off.
I've been there... I've had to cancel plans on girls I really liked and seemed into me, for genuine reasons but when I follow up later, she goes a little cold. She probably didn't know if I was blowing her off or maybe she thought I had someone else on the go too... it happens, can't worry about it too much. But that MIGHT be what's happened here... if you don't follow up quick enough, she can begin to cool off.

The reason I say make hard plans is this:
Yes, she might well have other plans but if she REALLY wants to meet she will most likely suggest another time or let you know when she is free... if you get wishy washy answer without any alternative plans, she's likely not that interested.
While it's true that you want it to be casual, I'm not sure if you interpreted it in the right way. You want to set the tone of the date as being casual... i.e. you quickly set a time and place that isn't too overwhelming. No need to organise an intimate expensive meal with rose petals spread across your path... casual means low key.

A big problem I see guys make (because I made it many times myself) is that if you don't try to set HARD plans, then it's all up in the air, girls expect you to man up and make a date. If you ask to go out "sometime" then it's not a real hard plan, it leaves it too open and you're not pushing for an actual meeting. I know you are expecting her to let you know her schedule but from the girls perspective they will also say "Hmm... sometimes... yeah, maybe next week or whatever" and then she goes on and makes other plans with friends.
By saying a time and place, it sets a hard plan.
Also, don't follow the request up with chit chat... that gives her an out as she already has done to skirt around the request and reply to the chit chat.

So you could just ask her schedule if you want to leave it more open "I heard of this cool place downtown I want to check out, what is your schedule like, Let's go for drinks Weds or Thurs this week after work".
The point is to pick a place, a general time and make it be a direct yes or no from her. If she genuinely can't make the time but is interested, she'll let you know a time that suits, if she doesn't... that is your closure, you're chasing if you persist.
Also, don't ask when she's free... set the time, even if you give it a range to work with, but that sets a definite plan in action.

 

[carpedm]

Well, well, well... what do we have hear? This girl just messaged me today and now we once again are in agreement to go out some time soon for coffee, just the two of us.

My update on the situation since the last reply by Estate is as follows: I did, in the end, decide to send her one last message just to follow up about going out for coffee. I sent it last week I think on Wednesday and, following Estate's suggestion, I offered a more specific time window for the date request, and I went a step further in laying out what we would do on the date (GC article saying that the girl hates to have to decide), as in go get coffee then visit a specific place afterwards if we felt like it. I sent it on Wednesday and said we could do it Saturday or Sunday. She did not reply.

However, today she finally replied. Skipping the details of her message, the interesting thing was that in this reply from her she now suggested we still try to get together, but she invited me to a group thing, and it was a business networking event of sorts so it was pretty much the furthest thing from a social meeting. I know better than to waste my time on that sort of thing with a girl, so I replied and was straightforward.

I first thanked her for inviting me to the event, but I went on to briefly clarify to her that I would prefer to see her on a personal basis, with her and I going out for coffee on our own. I went a step further and harkened back to when we first met (when, to my credit, I was quick about stating my interest in her and first suggested we go out, but I'll spare you those details for now.) I harkened back to why I first asked her out, explaining to her that I have a knack for being able to tell when I am talking to a pretty girl on the phone (our first interaction was over the phone, her being a businesswoman and me being a client), and I added that I enjoyed her personality during our conversation as well. I closed the message by bring the coffee date up again, explaining that it should not be misconstrued as a grand romantic date or as having any level of formality-- I told her it was "chill".

I purposely didn't really pose the preceding information as any sort of question, with the intent of creating just enough pressure on her in the hopes that it would spur her to respond.

Well, she replied (to my pleasant surprise) and said that she "understands now", and she said that going out for coffee would be great and that we should go for it. THIS TIME, I played it cool (learning from what I decided in hindsight as being my original mistake when she suggested we meet in person, which was that I told her "yes, I'd like that" and then proceeded to immediately delve into logistics with her and try to schedule a date.) THIS TIME, I decided to reply by simply saying "ok, cool" and then I went on with our conversation by saying something to the effect of "So what else has been going on? How's such and such going?"

So now we're going back and forth a little bit about, to be quite honest, some pretty boring stuff like family, what she did this past weekend, and what I find here is that we are missing any flirty vibe or sexual frame. After a few more messages (at most) I plan to get back to the date idea and ask her what her schedule's like this week. I will also have her confirm whether or not my previous suggestion for the date works for her (I am trying to have girls come to me, which would actually be kind of a hike for her, but I think I'll have much better logistics if we stick to my neighborhood.)

Other than that, it is worth noting that this girl is religious and as far as I know actively practices her faith. I am more and more confident, especially now, that what happened in the past few weeks with her was that she ended up overthinking the situation, likely pushed me towards the boyfriend material category (uh-oh), and then got cold feet and literally froze. I'll see where things go on the first date (which I'm still skeptical about the chances it will actually ever come to fruition), but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

I will admit that I do plan to give this girl some persistent effort (though I will not chase), even if that means we end up dating several times before (or without ever) sleeping together. You see, this girl really did an amazing thing for me without even knowing it. She helped me finally, finally, after a year of pining in despair over regretting dumping my ex-girlfriend (for fear of never finding another girl, scarcity mindset), this girl finally helped me to get over my ex-girlfriend. The reason for this isn't really because of anything this new girl did, but rather was because I (before I started reading GC) decided to consciously follow a radically different tactic in pursuing this new girl--this time, instead of having an overly sprezzatura mindset (again, still ignorant to GC), this time I decided to throw my mind and heart into pursuing this girl. I allowed and encouraged myself to think about her all the time and to basically fall fast and hard in love with her, because fuck it. And, though it goes against any advice here on GC (and rightfully so) on how to successfully get results with girls, it did serve one good purpose without me even realizing it until a few weeks into this new mentality. The end result of throwing myself into a lovespell with such enthusiasm was that I, to sum it up succinctly, got over my ex-girlfriend. I don't really know why and don't really care why either, I'm just happy to finally be free. I will hypothesize that I unwittingly achieved this result, though, because by throwing all of my loving romantic emotions into this new girl, I essentially ran out of room in my heart and mind for me ex-girlfriend's ghost. Whatever the actual psychology behind it may be, this is what happened.