Girlfriend Threw a Tantrum

[PuffyBrownStarfish]

To preface this, I want to say that I and my girlfriend are conservative Christians and are waiting to have sex till marriage. I understand that's not what you are all about but please understand this is the point of view I'm coming from. I'm not interested in seduction. The only reason that I am here is because a friend of mine requested that I post about what happened here.

My girlfriend and I were getting ready for church on Sunday and she kept asking me about who I was meeting up with every week, who my friends are basically. More than that, she wanted to know the name of the group that I am in. I am in a conservative men's group with a bad name, basically the media lies about them, but my girlfriend is in university so I didn't tell her exactly who they were because it was none of her business and I knew she would have a cow if she found out. I have a shirt and cap on display in my living room, so she picked up the cap and saw the name of the group and I just assumed she already knew at that point and there was no harm in telling her. I told her and she, predictably, had a fit about it. Saying I "betrayed her trust" and "lied to her". Of course, I explained that I didn't lie to her, as not telling her something, doesn't mean that I'm lying to her, it's not necessary for her to know because we are just dating right now and it's not her business.

She went onto say that I'm just the same as I always was. But it didn't end there. She accused me of being a sexist, racist, xenophobic and homophobic pig while telling me she didn't want to be with a hateful person and how she was oh so normal and that she can't support being with someone like me. Of course during this same conversation, she said that she herself was racist and even how she doesn't like gay people either. What I'm confused by there, is to what degree she thinks I'm any worse than she is? Her explanation was that she wasn't part of any group with a reputation so at least she appeared normal to other people.

So I sat down and tried to have a conversation with her about the whole thing. Why she thought that I broke her trust and why it was such a bad thing that I was in this group. She told me that I broke her trust because I didn't tell her outright that I was in this group. I held that I had no obligation to tell her and that it was private. She didn't have a good answer for that. But ultimately it got down to her feelings. She just felt hurt because of a reoccurring thing within our relationship. Her parents don't like me and this is just another reason her parents don't like me. Her parents are old rich liberals from the coast of California that shipped her off to college. They never approved of her being in a long term relationship looking to get married, primarily because her father wanted her to shop around and her mother wanted her to have fun. She says she's against that kind of thing but she still desperately wants to impress them. But I'm just "white trash" in their eyes for many a reason. I know that and that's part of why they don't like me.

She said she wanted to break up and I told her that was fine and that's on her if that's the case. Eventually she broke down and started crying. Saying she didn't want to break up but she couldn't be with someone so evil and hateful like me. At one point she was getting really smug, telling me how she was going to live a normal happy life without me and she'll break up with me and her parents will be so proud of her for breaking up with someone so creepy and evil.

During that whole confrontation, she told me that she felt unsafe and trapped. Which is another thing I've noticed about her. This is her first serious relationship. Yet she constantly makes comments like "I'm too young for this" or "I'm not ready for this" or "maybe I'm not mature enough for this yet." Mostly citing her age, as she is 19. It seems to me that she's been sheltered by her parents for so long that she doesn't have an idea as to how anything works. Which is fine, but I wish she wasn't so arrogant about it all the time and only bringing up how she's insufficient in knowledge and experience when doubting her relationship with me.

At the end of it, she was rolling around on the floor and crying about how I was such a bad person and then stopped and apologized for throwing a tantrum in a strange bit of self-realization. She said she still didn't like it but she'd just cope with it. I maintained how I thought about it from beginning to end but I feel negative about the experience and wonder if this is going to keep on going from here.

Anyways, feedback appreciated.

 

[James D]

Buddy, I doubt this is the right place to post this.

But okay, what feedback exactly are you looking for?

If it's whether or not to break up, you probaby shiould.

Also, you sound a bit young, you're 19? 20?

 

[PuffyBrownStarfish]

Buddy, I doubt this is the right place to post this.

But okay, what feedback exactly are you looking for?

If it's whether or not to break up, you probaby shiould.

Also, you sound a bit young, you're 19? 20?

Figured that may be the case. Mods can delete if they think it's not the appropriate place for it.

Feedback on how this looks and where this leads. I thought that this kind of behavior would be expected of her as growing pains in a first serious relationship.

No, I'm 26. Been in one LTR beforehand.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Sounds like she's having a lot of cognitive dissonance about the whole thing. On one hand there's attraction and on the other her parents + society bullshit + whatever else.

Plus she sounds extremely immature, which doesn't bode well at all (seriously, rolling around on the floor while also saying you're a bad person for being xyz while she herself admits to being at least one of those things?). If she's having doubts about wanting to be with you because she's so young, those aren't going to go away. Let's say you do get married and 5 years go by. You have a few kids and etc.

Then she starts to see other people and what she's missed out on. Those feelings are going to come roaring back up. Except they'll be stronger and the effects of indulging in them will be 100x worse by then.


You already know that your goals are different from the vast majority of this forum, but it's still a good place to talk about things. So stick around, maybe you'll learn some stuff that will help serve your goals down the road. Things like screening come to mind right away. But overall, I don't believe this relationship with this girl is the one for you nor her. But that's just my personal opinion based on what I'm reading

How long have you guys been together?

 

[ulrich]

Well, the short of it is you’re definitely dating a girl who is too young/inexperienced to handle th situation she is in.

You two being too different is a ridiculous perception of you ask me… but one that the media / her parents / her friends are going to keep feeding on her… so that’s swimming against the current.

If you are sure you want to marry this girl, my suggestion is for you to stay and be clear to her that you expect her to act like an adult.
She made her decision of being the gf of someone from another background, she needs to own it and get to know the full you.

If you are not sure you want to marry her, maybe this is a good time to give her the boot.
Her political inclinations are unlikely to change over time.
Even if she becomes more mature and stops throwing tantrums, this is something you will have to deal for your whole marriage.

 

[Vision]

To preface this, I want to say that I and my girlfriend are conservative Christians and are waiting to have sex till marriage. I understand that's not what you are all about but please understand this is the point of view I'm coming from. I'm not interested in seduction. The only reason that I am here is because a friend of mine requested that I post about what happened here.

My girlfriend and I were getting ready for church on Sunday and she kept asking me about who I was meeting up with every week, who my friends are basically. More than that, she wanted to know the name of the group that I am in. I am in a conservative men's group with a bad name, basically the media lies about them, but my girlfriend is in university so I didn't tell her exactly who they were because it was none of her business and I knew she would have a cow if she found out. I have a shirt and cap on display in my living room, so she picked up the cap and saw the name of the group and I just assumed she already knew at that point and there was no harm in telling her. I told her and she, predictably, had a fit about it. Saying I "betrayed her trust" and "lied to her". Of course, I explained that I didn't lie to her, as not telling her something, doesn't mean that I'm lying to her, it's not necessary for her to know because we are just dating right now and it's not her business.

She went onto say that I'm just the same as I always was. But it didn't end there. She accused me of being a sexist, racist, xenophobic and homophobic pig while telling me she didn't want to be with a hateful person and how she was oh so normal and that she can't support being with someone like me. Of course during this same conversation, she said that she herself was racist and even how she doesn't like gay people either. What I'm confused by there, is to what degree she thinks I'm any worse than she is? Her explanation was that she wasn't part of any group with a reputation so at least she appeared normal to other people.

So I sat down and tried to have a conversation with her about the whole thing. Why she thought that I broke her trust and why it was such a bad thing that I was in this group. She told me that I broke her trust because I didn't tell her outright that I was in this group. I held that I had no obligation to tell her and that it was private. She didn't have a good answer for that. But ultimately it got down to her feelings. She just felt hurt because of a reoccurring thing within our relationship. Her parents don't like me and this is just another reason her parents don't like me. Her parents are old rich liberals from the coast of California that shipped her off to college. They never approved of her being in a long term relationship looking to get married, primarily because her father wanted her to shop around and her mother wanted her to have fun. She says she's against that kind of thing but she still desperately wants to impress them. But I'm just "white trash" in their eyes for many a reason. I know that and that's part of why they don't like me.

She said she wanted to break up and I told her that was fine and that's on her if that's the case. Eventually she broke down and started crying. Saying she didn't want to break up but she couldn't be with someone so evil and hateful like me. At one point she was getting really smug, telling me how she was going to live a normal happy life without me and she'll break up with me and her parents will be so proud of her for breaking up with someone so creepy and evil.

During that whole confrontation, she told me that she felt unsafe and trapped. Which is another thing I've noticed about her. This is her first serious relationship. Yet she constantly makes comments like "I'm too young for this" or "I'm not ready for this" or "maybe I'm not mature enough for this yet." Mostly citing her age, as she is 19. It seems to me that she's been sheltered by her parents for so long that she doesn't have an idea as to how anything works. Which is fine, but I wish she wasn't so arrogant about it all the time and only bringing up how she's insufficient in knowledge and experience when doubting her relationship with me.

At the end of it, she was rolling around on the floor and crying about how I was such a bad person and then stopped and apologized for throwing a tantrum in a strange bit of self-realization. She said she still didn't like it but she'd just cope with it. I maintained how I thought about it from beginning to end but I feel negative about the experience and wonder if this is going to keep on going from here.

Anyways, feedback appreciated.

This is the beginning of a nightmare for you.

The people who raised her think that you're evil and she still values and respects them... she's heavily attracted to you (you're a conservative bad boy to her and have an upper hand in terms of power because of your lack of giving a shit) which is why she's continuing on with you.

This will go one of two ways...

Either you will successfully indoctrinate her into your viewpoint and then hold onto that indoctrination over her throughout your relationship, which will alienate her from her family, but allow you to have a relationship with her long term...

Or, at some point there will be a power dynamics shift where her attraction for you dwindles, her parents' influence over her strengthens, and her values shift to what they used to be... allowing her to treat you like shit, having massively erratic behaviors, go back on any agreements you have because of her original values, and walk out on you and everything you think you had together.

It's possible the first outcome will happen but it's far more likely that the second one will.

You're better off finding a woman who is either on the fence, doesn't care one way or the other, or holds conservative viewpoints. Otherwise, this is going to be a battle, and not a logical one. She would really need to submit to you fully in order for this to work. And I don't see that happening, especially given your current situation, the communication patterns you've discussed so far on here, and her background.

 

[StrayDog]

To preface this, I want to say that I and my girlfriend are conservative Christians and are waiting to have sex till marriage.

From what you put forth it sounds to me less like the two of you are conservative and waiting till marriage, and more like you are conservative and she is following your lead. It sounds like she is rather unclear about who she is and what she believes and feels caught in the middle of conflicting influences. Whatever tantrum she is having is most likely due to her lack of clarity within herself, and her inability to reconcile the complexities of her feelings towards you and her family. You, on the other hand, sound remarkably clear in who you are and what you are about. Most of the time parents just want to know their child is well taken care of and happy in the relationship they have (unless of course, they are total political zealots, in which case it's a real uphill battle). You don't have to talk politics with these people. They want to know that you are trustworthy and looking out for their daughter and what they know about you is a reflection of what their daughter shows them about you. So it really just comes down to what goes down between you and her. In any relationship, you will compete with outside influences. But when your frame is strong and the fundamental compatibility is there she will understand the benefit of standing with you in the face of those influences rather than immediately casting doubt on your character. In this instance, she seems to be less concerned with the content of what you withheld (that you were in this group) and more concerned with the fact that you withheld it. She is questioning how much she can trust that what she sees she gets with you and because there is a reputation with this group it makes it easier for her to have doubts. But the core of it is that she feels you withheld a big part of who you are from her. In a way, your withholding displays that you do not trust her with that part of yourself. That you feel like you have something to hide. She is questioning your frame. How much you are who you say you are. How much you can just own who you are. She is also questioning who she is and what she believes. The social consequences. She was following your lead though. Because you treated a piece of yourself like a dirty secret that sends the signal to her that perhaps it is. Telling her it is none of her business and that it is so private, implies as much. Treating it casually like "Oh yeah, just some evil shit I'm into. I am happy to talk about it sometime if ya really want to get into it. I kind of hate bringing politics into such a solid relationship though. Seems silly", well that sends the message that it really isn't that big of a deal and you can then frame the whole thing as a "yeah people think it's hateful but really it's not what the zealots think" and move on with your relationship. Rather than butting heads with her frame (that you were withholding some bit of crucial information), you could have treated it like you didn't even think to mention it to her cause it's such a non-issue ("Besides you already knew I was into conservative things. Arent you? or was that just some sort of front or something? what's the big deal?) If she is thinking about telling he parents about the group you say something like "Hey, we already know we have different political opinions than your parents, what's the benefit in getting into this with them? Seems much wiser we just keep politics out of our relationship with them. I'd rather we all just find ways to enjoy each other's company. They don't need to know every little nuance about us and our life".

to summarize summarize

-You set the frame and tone for how she responds to these elements of yourself. She is following your lead
-Her parents are responding to how she feels about you. If you two really are a good partnership and her parents are decent parents they will eventually come around (for the most part. you will always have to contend a bit)
-When a woman is on your team, she is willing to face outside influence by your side

So, why isn't she totally on your team?
-You withheld a significant piece of your life from her which became framed as you having this undesirable secret self. how you managed this frame seems to have helped to solidify it rather than nullify it
-She doesn't have a clear sense of who she is and is very susceptible to other strong influences in her life
-You haven't given her the best sex she can possibly imagine (you might not resonate with this one)

Ultimately you get to decide who is compatible with your life. I recommend at least the following qualities
-Someone who has a strong understanding of who she is, and is confident in herself
-Someone who doesn't break down into hissy fits when the going gets tough
-Someone who understands your character and where you are coming from
-Someone who stands by your side in the face of adversity

While having parents who have taken to disliking you is a very undesirable trait, it doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. You do have to ask yourself though do you always want to be contending with that influence, and will you have a strong enough frame when the going gets tough for the pendulum not to swing in that direction. This dynamic can be a real headache and will be a strong element in your marriage. Personally, I like it when her parents and I start on solid ground.

Can you get things back on track with this gal? Maybe. Is it worth it? that's up to you.

if you do choose to continue I personally would own up to withholding that part of yourself from her, show some empathy to her feeling as though you were hiding something, but frame it as "It's not really a big deal to me that you know, but I just I wasn't sure I could trust you to handle it well, especially with your parent's opinions of me" (as her tantrum proved). then I would highlight what went down and ask her straight up how you can trust her to be on your side. How you can trust she won't do this tantrum routine again (absolutely unacceptable). How you can trust she won't just break things off when the going gets tough. And how she is going to help the process of building respect from her parents (rather than aiming to impress them). Don't offer answers for her. Let her come up with the solutions herself. Focus more on yourself and building other aspects of your life for a bit and less on the two of you, (maybe even explore other options) while she demonstrates she is indeed the solid partner she claims to be. If she doesn't take her own initiative to work for it, there is your answer right there. And do be careful jumping back into things with her as she will then be even more invested and if there is another fall out it could be even worse and more trouble than it's worth

Ultimately it sounds like you two might just be fundamentally incompatible, and there is a better partner out there in this great big world.

Just my two cents.
All the best

 

[PuffyBrownStarfish]

How long have you guys been together?

We have been together since November. I knew her for a year before I started dating her.

but one that the media / her parents / her friends are going to keep feeding on her… so that’s swimming against the current.

That is something that does keep coming up. Her father has said he will not be okay with the age difference between us and her zoomer friends have it in their heads that any age difference past several months is always grooming. Just a month into the relationship she was having a crisis about whether or not she was being groomed. I just stopped talking to her for a few days and she got over it. But it does concern me how susceptible she is to influence from people her age, even when she hates them and talks shit about them all the time.

What I'm getting here is that she is just in over her head, she's immature, doesn't know what she is doing, so I'm competing for influence other people. I'm the only one being the radically different voice here.

As for whether or not I want to marry her, I got with her because I thought she'd be a good candidate for marriage. She's young, she's smart, she's got a good relationship with her father, then in general I just like her despite these dumb blow ups she has at times. I'm intending this to trend towards marriage, however I'm fine with the possibility of this not working out. Dating should be the testing phases to see if a long term relationship could really work out. But this isn't the first time she's blown up. The problem I have with myself, is understanding where my limits are. I can put up with a lot of bullshit and I tend to be very forgiving which has lead me to stay involved with things longer than I should. This event gave me pause and made me really think about whether this will work out in the long run.

My current thoughts are that she just needs to grow up and figure out where she stands in life. That may just have to be without me.

This is the beginning of a nightmare for you.

I thought if we could just go to church together, then I'd gradually introduce her to my conservative group, that we'd be on the same page as time passes. After all, she's young and her views are subject to change.

From what you put forth it sounds to me less like the two of you are conservative and waiting till marriage, and more like you are conservative and she is following your lead.

Thank you for the long and thoughtful response. It is highly appreciated.

she is rather unclear about who she is and what she believes and feels caught in the middle of conflicting influences.

This is on the mark. She has told me before that she feels like she has to pick between me and her parents. Without me, there is no conflict. I know that this was always an issue with her because she hasn't fully decided what exactly it is she wants in life and who would at her age really? Your perspective on taking it easy over my group and treating it like not a big deal is actually good advice. I don't feel strongly about it, but I could have done a better job at playing it off. I did not and so that exacerbated the situation. One thing she said over and over, was that I was ashamed of being part of the group and that's why I "hid it" but I don't feel that's the case at all. I know exactly why I didn't tell her, it was because she was going to throw a fit over it and so I kept the peace by not telling her exactly what I am apart of. My original plan was to get her to go to one of the family gatherings that our group hosts every now and again with the wives, kids and girlfriends. That way I could reveal it to her in a way that she couldn't pitch a fit about it as she would be in public and she'd actually get to meet the people. I know she would have reacted better if it had originally gone down like that.

Trust me, I'm not interested in talking politics with her parents at all and I never will as what they believe doesn't really matter to me.

That being said, I agree with most of what you said.

I can tell she's on the fence not about the issues, but she is on the fence about me. I think I will just give her some time, she's going back to her family over the summer break, this may be a good time for me to think on whether this is going to be something I want to continue. Before I was dating her, I was content to just focus on my work and my own business and not focus on relationships or dating. Mostly because I don't trust easily and I feel like I need to drip feed whoever I talk to, elements about myself. I am very careful especially with women on this.

Ultimately, it's up to me at the end of the day to decide what I want to do. I know I want a wife and a family one day.

 

[ulrich]

Any chance she will be open to get out of California and move with you to a place where she is not constantly bombarding with conflicting opinions?

 

[Chase]

@PuffyBrownStarfish,

You're making a common error you will see a great many people (men and women alike) make.

We might dub it the "come around" strategy.

"If I just keep at it long enough, this person will come around."

e.g.:

I thought if we could just go to church together, then I'd gradually introduce her to my conservative group, that we'd be on the same page as time passes. After all, she's young and her views are subject to change.

If you really do want this:

I know I want a wife and a family one day.

Then make sure you understand this:

Never Count on a Woman to Change (& Never Think You'll Change Her)

I talked to a friend recently and told him about a woman I'd dated with a short fuse. She was in all other respects perfect. Physically very beautiful. Very smart and highly educated. Good career. A happy, positive, can-do person, with a charming personality. More self-improvement-orientated...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[Skills]

To preface this, I want to say that I and my girlfriend are conservative Christians and are waiting to have sex till marriage. I understand that's not what you are all about but please understand this is the point of view I'm coming from. I'm not interested in seduction. The only reason that I am here is because a friend of mine requested that I post about what happened here.

My girlfriend and I were getting ready for church on Sunday and she kept asking me about who I was meeting up with every week, who my friends are basically. More than that, she wanted to know the name of the group that I am in. I am in a conservative men's group with a bad name, basically the media lies about them, but my girlfriend is in university so I didn't tell her exactly who they were because it was none of her business and I knew she would have a cow if she found out. I have a shirt and cap on display in my living room, so she picked up the cap and saw the name of the group and I just assumed she already knew at that point and there was no harm in telling her. I told her and she, predictably, had a fit about it. Saying I "betrayed her trust" and "lied to her". Of course, I explained that I didn't lie to her, as not telling her something, doesn't mean that I'm lying to her, it's not necessary for her to know because we are just dating right now and it's not her business.

She went onto say that I'm just the same as I always was. But it didn't end there. She accused me of being a sexist, racist, xenophobic and homophobic pig while telling me she didn't want to be with a hateful person and how she was oh so normal and that she can't support being with someone like me. Of course during this same conversation, she said that she herself was racist and even how she doesn't like gay people either. What I'm confused by there, is to what degree she thinks I'm any worse than she is? Her explanation was that she wasn't part of any group with a reputation so at least she appeared normal to other people.

So I sat down and tried to have a conversation with her about the whole thing. Why she thought that I broke her trust and why it was such a bad thing that I was in this group. She told me that I broke her trust because I didn't tell her outright that I was in this group. I held that I had no obligation to tell her and that it was private. She didn't have a good answer for that. But ultimately it got down to her feelings. She just felt hurt because of a reoccurring thing within our relationship. Her parents don't like me and this is just another reason her parents don't like me. Her parents are old rich liberals from the coast of California that shipped her off to college. They never approved of her being in a long term relationship looking to get married, primarily because her father wanted her to shop around and her mother wanted her to have fun. She says she's against that kind of thing but she still desperately wants to impress them. But I'm just "white trash" in their eyes for many a reason. I know that and that's part of why they don't like me.

She said she wanted to break up and I told her that was fine and that's on her if that's the case. Eventually she broke down and started crying. Saying she didn't want to break up but she couldn't be with someone so evil and hateful like me. At one point she was getting really smug, telling me how she was going to live a normal happy life without me and she'll break up with me and her parents will be so proud of her for breaking up with someone so creepy and evil.

During that whole confrontation, she told me that she felt unsafe and trapped. Which is another thing I've noticed about her. This is her first serious relationship. Yet she constantly makes comments like "I'm too young for this" or "I'm not ready for this" or "maybe I'm not mature enough for this yet." Mostly citing her age, as she is 19. It seems to me that she's been sheltered by her parents for so long that she doesn't have an idea as to how anything works. Which is fine, but I wish she wasn't so arrogant about it all the time and only bringing up how she's insufficient in knowledge and experience when doubting her relationship with me.

At the end of it, she was rolling around on the floor and crying about how I was such a bad person and then stopped and apologized for throwing a tantrum in a strange bit of self-realization. She said she still didn't like it but she'd just cope with it. I maintained how I thought about it from beginning to end but I feel negative about the experience and wonder if this is going to keep on going from here.

Anyways, feedback appreciated.

- she is too young to be thinking about marriage

- she is correct about the trust, you did not tell her about group to avoid problems and confrontation, similar to my issue with seducers hidding involvement from mains. Stop being scare of confrontation, nice guy pussy behavior, she is right.

- parents no liking you, helps you in the seduction, at that age she will do oppossite. But you have 0 biz being with a 19 year old and holding her hostage for marriage. Women should marry minimum 24, 26-28 ideal, dudes minimum 32.

- you are not interested in seduction, i feel sorry for you. Seduction is a must skill.

 

[StrayDog]

yeah, I was aiming to give the benefit of the doubt. Offer reflection and what not. but now I'm just saying straight-up: Consider that putting her in such tricky position could have have some selfish motivations to it. Especially when she has been explicitly clear she is not ready. Don't run her through the wringer trying to get her to be something she is not. cut your losses Set her free, and reflect on how you can do better next time. Don't draw out what has already been proven to not work. Recipe for disaster, resentment, and pain.

 

[TomInHo]

To preface this, I want to say that I and my girlfriend are conservative Christians and are waiting to have sex till marriage. I understand that's not what you are all about but please understand this is the point of view I'm coming from. I'm not interested in seduction. The only reason that I am here is because a friend of mine requested that I post about what happened here.

My girlfriend and I were getting ready for church on Sunday and she kept asking me about who I was meeting up with every week, who my friends are basically. More than that, she wanted to know the name of the group that I am in. I am in a conservative men's group with a bad name, basically the media lies about them, but my girlfriend is in university so I didn't tell her exactly who they were because it was none of her business and I knew she would have a cow if she found out. I have a shirt and cap on display in my living room, so she picked up the cap and saw the name of the group and I just assumed she already knew at that point and there was no harm in telling her. I told her and she, predictably, had a fit about it. Saying I "betrayed her trust" and "lied to her". Of course, I explained that I didn't lie to her, as not telling her something, doesn't mean that I'm lying to her, it's not necessary for her to know because we are just dating right now and it's not her business.

She went onto say that I'm just the same as I always was. But it didn't end there. She accused me of being a sexist, racist, xenophobic and homophobic pig while telling me she didn't want to be with a hateful person and how she was oh so normal and that she can't support being with someone like me. Of course during this same conversation, she said that she herself was racist and even how she doesn't like gay people either. What I'm confused by there, is to what degree she thinks I'm any worse than she is? Her explanation was that she wasn't part of any group with a reputation so at least she appeared normal to other people.

So I sat down and tried to have a conversation with her about the whole thing. Why she thought that I broke her trust and why it was such a bad thing that I was in this group. She told me that I broke her trust because I didn't tell her outright that I was in this group. I held that I had no obligation to tell her and that it was private. She didn't have a good answer for that. But ultimately it got down to her feelings. She just felt hurt because of a reoccurring thing within our relationship. Her parents don't like me and this is just another reason her parents don't like me. Her parents are old rich liberals from the coast of California that shipped her off to college. They never approved of her being in a long term relationship looking to get married, primarily because her father wanted her to shop around and her mother wanted her to have fun. She says she's against that kind of thing but she still desperately wants to impress them. But I'm just "white trash" in their eyes for many a reason. I know that and that's part of why they don't like me.

She said she wanted to break up and I told her that was fine and that's on her if that's the case. Eventually she broke down and started crying. Saying she didn't want to break up but she couldn't be with someone so evil and hateful like me. At one point she was getting really smug, telling me how she was going to live a normal happy life without me and she'll break up with me and her parents will be so proud of her for breaking up with someone so creepy and evil.

During that whole confrontation, she told me that she felt unsafe and trapped. Which is another thing I've noticed about her. This is her first serious relationship. Yet she constantly makes comments like "I'm too young for this" or "I'm not ready for this" or "maybe I'm not mature enough for this yet." Mostly citing her age, as she is 19. It seems to me that she's been sheltered by her parents for so long that she doesn't have an idea as to how anything works. Which is fine, but I wish she wasn't so arrogant about it all the time and only bringing up how she's insufficient in knowledge and experience when doubting her relationship with me.

At the end of it, she was rolling around on the floor and crying about how I was such a bad person and then stopped and apologized for throwing a tantrum in a strange bit of self-realization. She said she still didn't like it but she'd just cope with it. I maintained how I thought about it from beginning to end but I feel negative about the experience and wonder if this is going to keep on going from here.

Anyways, feedback appreciated.

There is so much to uncover here it's crazy..

1) First of all, what you do with your free time is none of her business. And the fact that she is trying to guilt trip you is nothing more than a relationship power play. A good attitude to have is "This is what I love to do, you can accept it or you can kick rocks."

2) She's obviously too young to even be thinking about marriage. Her telling you she's feeling trapped is a massive red flag but I can't blame the girl. She's around this dude that's making her horny but she can't release any of the sexual frustration.

But I have a feeling that even if you get married that feeling of feeling trapped will never really go away. So if you're serious about your faith, it's probably better to find another girl that's on the same page with you

3) Your close mindedness about learning seduction is really hurting your relationship. You're trying to play the game on a social level but women respond more strongly to men that know how to stimulate the primal side of their biology.

Her tantrums are actually a cry for male leadership.. she's telling you indirectly I don't trust your competence as a leader, and I don't trust your ability to keep me safe and fulfill my needs. Learning about seduction can greatly help you in this department.

4) You need to take a step back and put yourself in her shoes. What benefit does she get from attaching to you? Why should she abandon her social programming for you? What makes you different from any other guy she can acquire when your social goals don't align?

5) I honestly think that If you were giving her mind blowing orgasms and creating lots of fun and variable emotions outside the bedroom, she'll be more forgiving of your imperfections. But to each their own

 

[PuffyBrownStarfish]

yeah, I was aiming to give the benefit of the doubt. Offer reflection and what not. but now I'm just saying straight-up: Consider that putting her in such tricky position could have have some selfish motivations to it. Especially when she has been explicitly clear she is not ready. Don't run her through the wringer trying to get her to be something she is not. cut your losses Set her free, and reflect on how you can do better next time. Don't draw out what has already been proven to not work. Recipe for disaster, resentment, and pain.

The trouble I run into with that is that even though she's explicitly said it, is it necessarily true? Does she actually mean that? She's said stuff she obviously doesn't mean before and said that about this too. It's not like I'm forcing her to stay with me, I've laid the choice at her feet to choose whether or not she wants to remain in this relationship. If she's stayed with me so far, then the answer must be that she wants to be in the relationship. She cannot be trapped. She may feel that way in given situations yes, but not in all circumstances. I'm pretty sure when she is happy, she does not feel trapped.

As for selfish motivations on my part... Am I being selfish in this situation? While yes I am making her feel certain things, I'm not stopping her from leaving or guilting her, or trying to emotionally manipulate her into being with me. I've been explicit in saying that if she wants to go, she is free at any time to leave.

I feel like I'm being the benevolent one here. Is there something I'm missing? Is this kind of thing really proven not to work? I figure that as long as two people are willing to work things out then it should work. People are imperfect so naturally there should be a certain degree to which you take their imperfection as just a fact of life. I also see that some think I'm in error to try and change her, you guys are right, I shouldn't hinge my relationship on whether or not I can change her. I would have to accept that aspect of her if I were to continue.

 

[TomInHo]

As for selfish motivations on my part... Am I being selfish in this situation? While yes I am making her feel certain things, I'm not stopping her from leaving or guilting her, or trying to emotionally manipulate her into being with me. I've been explicit in saying that if she wants to go, she is free at any time to leave.

Your take it or leave it attitude is good and probably part of the reason why she's attracted to you. So never lose that mindset but you still have to see the bigger picture

I feel like I'm being the benevolent one here. Is there something I'm missing? Is this kind of thing really proven not to work? I figure that as long as two people are willing to work things out then it should work. People are imperfect so naturally there should be a certain degree to which you take their imperfection as just a fact of life. I also see that some think I'm in error to try and change her, you guys are right, I shouldn't hinge my relationship on whether or not I can change her. I would have to accept that aspect of her if I were to continue.

Nobody is perfect but you need good raw material when looking for a life partner. And the dynamic between the two of you seems off for a few reasons.

1) You're 26 and she's 19.. You should be looking for marriage from a woman that's around your age. Because this girl is going to be totally different by the age of 25. The adult brain becomes fully developed at that age so her personality then is more likely to be the real her

And the fact that she is already showing signs of defying your authority, I wouldn't want to be around to see what she changes into

2) Once again she has different values than you. You two have been dating since November and are already running into long term compatibility issues. It's better to cut your losses

3) She has not submitted to you. I firmly believe that a man should never consider marriage with a woman that does not make him a major focus of her life. You want your wife to be your greatest supporter not critic.

If this woman truly loved you, she will move heaven and earth to be with you and support your cause. She would forget about her family, friends and societies opinion of you and in fact those things can actually make your situation more passionate by creating an "Us vs Them" dynamic.. but unfortunately you don't care about seduction so I guess you won't know how to harness that powerful relationship frame

4) You're suffering from the sunk-cost fallacy. Because you've invested so much into this relationship, you're finding it difficult to see it for what it really is. A waste of your time and further investment

You need to get out of this while you still can, unless 5 years from now we are gonna be getting another post from you about how you found your wife cheating and how she's trying to destroy you socially and financially

Move on and learn some game for the next girl(s)

 

[StrayDog]

The trouble I run into with that is that even though she's explicitly said it, is it necessarily true? Does she actually mean that? She's said stuff she obviously doesn't mean before and said that about this too.

It's not just what she says. It's how she behaves. Tantrums, flip flopping on what she says she wants, etc. Doesn't sound like someone who is ready for marriage.

It's not like I'm forcing her to stay with me, I've laid the choice at her feet to choose whether or not she wants to remain in this relationship. If she's stayed with me so far, then the answer must be that she wants to be in the relationship.

I agree with @TomInHo with this one that you do seem to have a pretty strong take it or leave it frame. That probably contributes a lot to her attraction and her sticking around. But just because a part of her wants to be in a relationship, that doesn't mean that all of her does. Hence her inner turmoil over the whole thing

As for selfish motivations on my part... Am I being selfish in this situation? While yes I am making her feel certain things, I'm not stopping her from leaving or guilting her, or trying to emotionally manipulate her into being with me. I've been explicit in saying that if she wants to go, she is free at any time to leave.

Withholding a piece of your life with her when you know she will disapprove and plotting to introduce it in a roundabout way so that she might slowly come around to it once she is more invested definitely has an element of manipulation to it. An element of trying to push someone in a direction that is closer to what you want even though they really well might not be that at all. I am not saying you are a bad person or anything, just that it could be helpful to meditate on your motivations there. And also just a strong indicator that a part of you already sees that there is some real incompatibility and wants it to be another way.

Wanting to change someone is actually a subtle form of chasing. Imagine a man has, at any given moment, a handful of strong viable compatible relationship options. Is he really gonna spend his energy trying to change this one aspect of some gal who it just doesn't seem to be working with? The moment a woman senses you aiming to change her, whether she is consciously aware of it or not, a part of her understands this sub-communication and she starts wondering how much of a catch you really are. She starts to question your leadership. If a woman knows you chose her for who she is, not in spite of who she is. Well, then she can trust you understand her, and is happy to follow your lead

I feel like I'm being the benevolent one here. Is there something I'm missing? Is this kind of thing really proven not to work? I figure that as long as two people are willing to work things out then it should work. People are imperfect so naturally there should be a certain degree to which you take their imperfection as just a fact of life. I also see that some think I'm in error to try and change her, you guys are right, I shouldn't hinge my relationship on whether or not I can change her. I would have to accept that aspect of her if I were to continue.

Yes people can work on things, but from everything you've described you seem to have a lot stacked against you
Anything in life that is going to have long-term success depends so much on momentum. Any successful, thriving, long-term relationship I have seen, both first and second hand, has started out with tremendous momentum and didn't hit some speed bumps until way into the thing ( I am talking years). If there is this level of conflict this early in you can count on it being a long road ahead. Whatever grounds these conflicts are standing on won't just go away. Picture all the scenarios these conflicts can keep coming up again and again, the energy these core conflicts can take, continually having to face them, and how that can affect so many other decisions and aspects of your life. What kind of life do you see together? Now picture a life where you and your partner are just on the same page about what you are aiming for in life. Sure there are some disagreements from time to time, and even some reoccurring ones. But you are just fundamentally compatible, and these conflicts are easy to manage. Now, what kind of a life have the two of you created?

You really want to get married? There is really no reason you ought to feel a rush to do so. Keep developing yourself. Keep educating yourself on the matter. Both in places you really resonate with (Tony Gaskins? My Christian friend seems to really like his relationship advice), and places you might find novel or unlikely. Like Girlschase.
Regardless of how you chose to engage with your sexuality, recognize that there is a great deal of overlap between what it takes to attract your ideal partner (seduction) and what it takes to maintain a solid marriage. No long-lasting relationship has been started or maintained without the element of seduction at play. Well, maybe arranged marriages. But that's a whole other can of worms, and I somehow doubt your parents are setting you up with a wife anytime soon.