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Girls keep switching from liking me to hard-to-get

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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Jul 6, 2020
Messages
636
This is a nearly ubiquitous sticking point I found in my game. It even gives me flashbacks to my middle school 6th grade crushes. Must be something I’ve been doing for a while:

Step 1: Girl qualifies & seems to like me a good amount. I get a somewhat chase frame going. Good momentum.

Step 2: I reward by showing similar interest / investment

Step 3: She enjoys this for a bit. But suddenly starts playing hard to get & tries her best to flip the script in her favor.

Step 4: Whole thing dies due to significant courtship slowdown. (In the past I have chased. Now I either give up or try to slowly reintroduce myself to no avail)

This annoying pattern seems to happen with almost every girl I don’t do well with.

It’s like every woman has an auto-mechanism constantly looking for the slightest thing she can use to start playing hard to get.

Even if the girl likes me.

Heres an example from just yesterday (Havent met this girl IRL, but same thing applies):


She obviously likes me

But towards the end she went from almost instant replies to 4+ hr replies (The AP Exam excuse is very valid tho. Looking at the time, she probably texted me as soon as she got out).

Plus she was posting on her instagram story - most likely for me to see that she’s effectively ignoring my message. (I wasn’t searching for all that, her story just popped up on the app.)

I have some possible culprits but I don't want to bias any of y’alls expert advice.

Whats the deal?
 

ulrich

Modern Human
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Oct 21, 2019
Messages
1,775
Mmmhhh… do you think she got insulted when you asked her if she was a gold digger?

Maybe it’s a cultural thing.
Where I live girls go ballistic if you as much suggest she is a gold digger.

Other than that, I see too much attraction and too little comfort.

A little fractionation there should help.
Switch from heavily flirting to getting to know her and then circle back.
Rinse and repeat.
 

DarkKnight

Cro-Magnon Man
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Oct 18, 2018
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1,751
Lot of times this happens when girls like you but are not totally converted. They assume they have time so you need to use scarcity ,sometimes even when they like you a LOT they still fuck around forcing you to choose another girl and then see their world crumble 🤷🏻‍♂️.

Ball in your court is perfect for these girls so they know you dont fuck around. Only thing I dislike is when there is a socisl circlr around, in some social circles with social repucursions these girls throw up walls so you cant escalate as much as you want to. This is tactically done so you barely can call them out either as they are being subtle. Very "tragic" but you need to realize they are taking risks. Some of them had the gall to become very vindictive and angry. Usually they tend to make big moves after they are seen you are honestly done, think you are in stasis and only waiting for them or something.. which probably for most guys is the case

It is a game of chicken in a sense.

If you have room you can use ball in your court. Read up articles of chase
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
636
Mmmhhh… do you think she got insulted when you asked her if she was a gold digger?

Maybe it’s a cultural thing.
Where I live girls go ballistic if you as much suggest she is a gold digger.

I don’t think so. I have a feeling she kind of expected me to say something about gold digging after she sent that message so I doubt it came as a suprise.

Other than that, I see too much attraction and too little comfort.

A little fractionation there should help.
Switch from heavily flirting to getting to know her and then circle back.
Rinse and repeat.

True. Probably should have started the comfort earlier. I was on my way getting there before she stopped replying. She still hasn’t replied yet

Thank you Ulrich!
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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Jul 6, 2020
Messages
636
Lot of times this happens when girls like you but are not totally converted. They assume they have time so you need to use scarcity ,sometimes even when they like you a LOT they still fuck around forcing you to choose another girl and then see their world crumble 🤷🏻‍♂️.

Ah scarcity. I need to implement that more. There was one point I wanted to display preselection by “I’m too busy shooing all these girls away to be an ashawo (guy who sleeps around)” but I thought that it would hurt my attainability when it was already at a good spot so I refrained

Ball in your court is perfect for these girls so they know you dont fuck around.

Will def try that, I want to give this girl another chance with me though since she was fairly easygoing and compliant for most of the time. I’ll send an unrelated message giving her a chance to reengage

If she fucks around again then BIHC it is
Only thing I dislike is when there is a socisl circlr around, in some social circles with social repucursions these girls throw up walls so you cant escalate as much as you want to. This is tactically done so you barely can call them out either as they are being subtle. Very "tragic" but you need to realize they are taking risks. Some of them had the gall to become very vindictive and angry
Seen this too many times man. Crazy

Thanks for your insight DarkKnight I appreciate it
 

StrayDog

Modern Human
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Feb 23, 2022
Messages
846
after the number close I would have done more personal rapport building, a move thing's quickly towards the soft close. She already knows you got swag, she needed to see you are also a normal chill guy she can hang with, as well as getting a sense of where the interaction is headed.


you had already done a bunch of flirtatious banter, then you grab her number and immediately hit her with it again ("its the man of your dreams"). She doesn't really know you and she starts thinking "is this guy for real. He's out her acting like he's hot shit or something" ("ur not Hollywood"), so she kinda shit testing. Also, since the tone is still the same as before you grabbed her digits it feels kinda one note, predictable. Like you're still on that vibe. She already gets that you have swagger, that's why she tossed you her number. Now she needs to see your for real. I'm not saying go all soft and get too personal, but it was the perfect moment to state change, be chill and personable while seeding the soft close, banter, hard close

She herself actually recognized the need for a state change and brings up the AP exams. Which is all good but the direction it takes things is low momentum. If you had taken the lead on the state change from the jump you would have have had more control of the frame and been able to lead the momentum in the right direction. Basically she started taking the lead, then you kind of followed it (responding that you are going to take exams soon also) and it lead in a low momentum direction.

Edit: @ulrichs suggestion to fractionate makes tons of sense here, and basically applies to what I was saying. Plant seeds throughout the text exchange, from the jump. That way you are not playing catch-up with important elements later in the interaction.
 
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you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Conquistador

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If this is a pattern, it probably means you are working with girls who either aren’t sure about you, aren’t actually interested in you, or have mental barriers about moving forward.
A lot of girls under 21 in SC, even extended SC, will resist a simple date even if they like a guy. Just how girls are 🤷‍♂️
Plus, inexperienced girls who aren’t actively hunting for a boyfriend can be hard to really hook.

You’re still thinking in somewhat gamey terms.
Also, you need to realize that a lot of young girls don’t actually hook up and have frame issues about anything short of ltr. Solution: either screen for hookup type girls (if you’re cool with that) or set FwB frames in a calibrated way (see here: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/sell-the-middle-length-relationship.21839/ ).

Also, I learned the hard way how important compliance testing and stuff are. It took me months. Might be you have to learn by experiencing, but try to lead and get compliance instead of flirting. Some young naturals barely flirt at all. How tall are you btw?
 

Rakehell

Cro-Magnon Man
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Mar 28, 2021
Messages
774
She obviously likes me

But towards the end she went from almost instant replies to 4+ hr replies (The AP Exam excuse is very valid tho. Looking at the time, she probably texted me as soon as she got out).

Plus she was posting on her instagram story - most likely for me to see that she’s effectively ignoring my message. (I wasn’t searching for all that, her story just popped up on the app.)

I have some possible culprits but I don't want to bias any of y’alls expert advice.

Whats the deal?
Good texting, probably dragging it a bit much. At some point you need to get to softclose/hardclose. Could be the reason she’s pulling back.

It’s just flirt flirt flirt, but not going anywhere, does that make sense?
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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636
after the number close I would have done more personal rapport building, a move thing's quickly towards the soft close. She already knows you got swag, she needed to see you are also a normal chill guy she can hang with, as well as getting a sense of where the interaction is headed.

True true, overdid that a bit

you had already done a bunch of flirtatious banter, then you grab her number and immediately hit her with it again ("its the man of your dreams"). She doesn't really know you and she starts thinking "is this guy for real. He's out her acting like he's hot shit or something" ("ur not Hollywood"), so she kinda shit testing. Also, since the tone is still the same as before you grabbed her digits it feels kinda one note, predictable. Like you're still on that vibe. She already gets that you have swagger, that's why she tossed you her number. Now she needs to see your for real. I'm not saying go all soft and get too personal, but it was the perfect moment to state change, be chill and personable while seeding the soft close, banter, hard close

I think this is pretty much exactly it. No state switch gave off a too strong player vibe

She herself actually recognized the need for a state change and brings up the AP exams. Which is all good but the direction it takes things is low momentum. If you had taken the lead on the state change from the jump you would have have had more control of the frame and been able to lead the momentum in the right direction. Basically she started taking the lead, then you kind of followed it (responding that you are going to take exams soon also) and it lead in a low momentum direction.

Right. Need to lead convo

Edit: @ulrichs suggestion to fractionate makes tons of sense here, and basically applies to what I was saying. Plant seeds throughout the text exchange, from the jump. That way you are not playing catch-up with important elements later in the interaction.

Facts. Thank you man

Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd message i can offhandedly mention meeting her. “When I see you in person we gotta fix that” or something similar, right?
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
636
You’re still thinking in somewhat gamey terms.
Also, you need to realize that a lot of young girls don’t actually hook up and have frame issues about anything short of ltr. Solution: either screen for hookup type girls (if you’re cool with that) or set FwB frames in a calibrated way (see here: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/sell-the-middle-length-relationship.21839/ ).

Golden. Thanks brother

Also, I learned the hard way how important compliance testing and stuff are. It took me months. Might be you have to learn by experiencing, but try to lead and get compliance instead of flirting. Some young naturals barely flirt at all. How tall are you btw?

Yeah, don’t think compliance was the problem. In the text exchange compliance was pretty much built into it. But you’re right, a stronger focus on that by me would be beneficial.

I’m 6’0
 

StrayDog

Modern Human
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Feb 23, 2022
Messages
846
Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd message i can offhandedly mention meeting her. “When I see you in person we gotta fix that” or something similar, right?
"When I see you in person" is more of a medium close really. You are basically asking her out without being totally direct about it. Drop that too soon and it might feel a little presumptuous, or even chasing.

One way to build comfort, look for more moments when you can frame things as "we." I see a perfect opportunity in your text exchange when she asks if you're Naija, then you ask her if shes Naija and she's like "Hell yeah." You could have totally slipped in a simple little "We so Naija!" highlighting the commonality you two have and planting the first "we" frame. If you sprinkle in we statements here and there it becomes just a normal feature in the way you two talk to each other. That way when you get to soft close/hard close stuff it is already baked in that "We gotta check it out" just makes sense.

I wouldn't say 2nd or 3rd message in per se, but think about it more like a process where you are juggling a few main conversational elements necessary to get her out on a date (sexual tension/flirtation-comfort/rapport-a sense of direction), you want to plant seeds whenever a good opportunity arises. Plant the seeds as soon as makes sense. Plant them early and often. Start small and build from there. Each small seed you plant sets a precedence for the next one, each building on the each other.

Here are some was you can get in front of the frame and lead the convo

Suggestive comments. Suggestive doesn't only mean suggestive of sex, you can suggest comfort, or familiarity, or suggest where things might be headed "toss me your number and we'll get into something delicious"( doing a soft close after you two have been building rapport talking about food)

"Bet" is a good way of suggesting things "Dang you studying hard. Bet you're gonna live it up this weekend though" (suggesting that she is looking for fun this weekend)

"Bet you had a blast"

Asking leading questions "You this witty irl, or just on insta?" (qualifying and suggesting)

"hey you like creative experiences, right?"

Honestly, when texting I tend to keep questions to a minimum and prefer to lead with statements and observations, but they do have a place in rapport building. Mostly though I save questions for more practical logistic things.

If you need to build some more rapport though ask questions about her life and what not. Try and get a sense what she's about.


Also share info about yourself bits info about your self that relate to what she tells you so she gets a sense what your about.

Again a little can go a long way so you don't need to get stuck in endless friendly banter. Just enough that she gets a sense there is a real person on the other side of the phone. Can often happen within a couple back and forth texts between you two.

Using evocative words.

"we" "us" "our" evoke a sense of togetherness (just don't over do it to where it loses gravity)

"We so naija"

"we turnin heads when we come on the scene"

"looking forward to our little rendevous"

"They got nothing on us"

Words like "sublime" or "majestic" evoke calm and comfort.

Her: How're you?
You: Watching the sunset. it's total majesty"

She says she just got out of yoga class you reply "mmm sounds sublime"

"I'm just chilling at Blue sky coffee. Cappuccinos straight-up sublime"

"Delicious" "Delectable" and "Pleasure" evoke sensuality

Her: What'd you get up to this weekend?
You: All sunshine and good times. A total pleasure! What about you?


And so on. Basically, consider what feelings you might evoke with your word choices, and what direction that could lead the convo

Stay in front of the frame. When she says something ask yourself how you can frame the next text you send in a way that either builds tension/comfort/ or a sense of direction.

Allow time for each phase to have its proper moment, and know that the process often takes time. Some girls you can get out quicker than others, and like @Surveyor says you can always screen for dtf girls, but you might lose some girls who would otherwise be down. Especially if you are cold texting via social media. Sure there might be some girls just down and high momentum, but a lot of girls you got to take your time with and be patient. Might take a week to get her out maybe even two all depending on the momentum, how your schedules are lining up, and all of that. Shit man, sometimes might even take a month or longer. I've gotten women out months after the number close, but that might be a whole other can of worms for another post.

Let's look at all the ground that might be covered in a 10-11 day proccess, before you two are actually face to face irl

Days 1-5 (approximately)
open>build rapport/ flirt> number close> build rapport/flirt/ screen logistics> soft close>hard close (suggest a concrete date idea)>

Days 6-11 (approximately)
still haven't actually been on the date yet, so now you have another 4-5 days before you actually get her out. So you still leave some room for convo on the back end of things, to keep the ball rolling. Like lets say the date idea is grab a coffee and check out some art. Over the next few days sprinkle in more solid info about where exactly you're meeting, then what time, then maybe seal the deal with a "right on, looking forward," then day of whatever communication might be necessary

All this is to say there is a lot of ground to cover pace yourself. Yes it is important to keep momentum going, but don't rush the interaction.

Like @DarkKnight mentioned make yourself scarce from time to time. I have found that after a number close (when doing social/app game) is often a good time to be a little more scarce. I send a text that solidifies the connection we have established. Maybe some call-back humor or even some sincerity like "Yo good connecting. We'll be in touch for sure." Then I make myself scarce for a day or two before pinging and leading things to the next phase. Knowing when to sit back and let some moments just pass can really help your pacing over an extended period of days.

I have found after the number close, and after she agrees to a solid date idea are usually good moments to hang back a little before jumping back in to keep the ball rolling. Obviously, there are of course exceptions and calibration is key, but if you find yourself thinking "this might be a good moment to hang back a bit," trust it.

Again, sometimes things move faster than others, but pace yourself. Allow each phase to have it's due moment, all while nudging things forward.

Keep your eye on the prize and don't over do it. A little does a long way. As long as there is just enough sexual tension that she knows what is on the table and what is at stake, enough comfort for her to get that you are a chill normal dude she can kick it with (a touch of rapport), and a strong sense of direction, getting together will be a no brainer.
 
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