Girls who "don't like being touched"

[Bboy100]

So I've ran a situation where I would do light physical escalation with girls (e.g. hugs, arm around her shoulders, hand holding, incidental touch etc.) and the girl will often mention at some point during the date that she "doesn't like being touched" or "she's not a touchy person" or something along those lines. Sometimes, its in direct response to what I did, sometimes it just comes up in a completely unrelated conversation. Obviously, the statement "I don't like being touched" really means "I don't like being touched by most people" or "I don't like being touched by strangers". If she really didn't like being touched at all, then she would never be able to have sexual relationships at all whatsoever lol.

At first, I thought statements like those were cues that she doesn't like being touched by me (i.e. it's her subtle way of letting me know she's not into me). But then I started getting second dates with those same girls. So it seems that I was wrong, and what it really means is either "I don't like being touched in that way specifically but I'm open to other forms of escalation" or "I'm not ready for you to touch me yet...but given enough comfort and connection-building, I will be".

So what do I do in situations like those? I could just try escalating again later after building more comfort, but that doesn't really help when it comes to figuring out what she's actually ok with. Because in my experience, girls will often do things they don't want to do just to avoid confrontation or having to say "no" to me. But in reality, what I'm doing is turning them off and making them uncomfortable. So imo, escalating later on isn't a reliable indicator of whether or not she's ok with what I'm doing.

What do you guys think?

 

[lao che]

don't listen to her words watch her actions

 

[Bboy100]

Yeah, that's my first instinct. My problem is that history has taught me that sometimes, her actions are not in line with how she really feels or with her intentions. For example, girls will let me kiss them even if they don't actually want me to because its too uncomfortable for them to tell me no or to be confrontational. This often results in me never seeing her again after that. I feel like the same can be true for other forms of escalation (granted, the consequence might be lesser if its only light touching).

But maybe this isn't what you meant? Can you elaborate on what you're talking about a little more?

 

[lao che]

i mean if she says she don't like being touched but meets you for a second date (i assume it's quite clear that you're not "friends") then who cares what she says? it doesn't matter.
if she says "i don't like kissing" but she's kissing you then ... i mean, you're not holding her down while you lean all your weight on her so she can't escape and then forcing your lips to touch hers as she grimaces and writhes, right?

Because in my experience, girls will often do things they don't want to do just to avoid confrontation or having to say "no" to me. But in reality, what I'm doing is turning them off and making them uncomfortable.

that's some pretty extreme social pressure, if you're getting girls to kiss you just because it's less awkward than rejecting you.

 

[Smith]

It depends on when and how they said it and the context. If you're both having a good time and you feel like it's the right time to escalate, but she rejected you and tease you "I don't like being touched by strangers"....it's pretty obvious she just doesn't want to feel like a slut. Of course, back off and apologize but also play around with the situation as well to show her you're not taking her rejection seriously. sometimes a girl just needs to know you can back off when she feels uncomfortable, so she can trust you.

You can interpret the whole "I don't like to be touched" thing as "please don't make me feel like a slut" or "please make me feel good", if the girl still let you kiss them and they kiss you back. If you make them feel "too easy", the chances of them coming back again is very low. If you think you're being too unattainable and player-ish, it's a good time to be real and joke about some of your insecure side as well.

Some girls will kiss you just to feel good and get some validation, but they might not have any intention to sleep with you or they're still on the fence. Usually you won't hear from them again or they'll flake on your second date.

It might also be the way you touch them as well. touch them like a cat. Be sensual but firm. Make them feel good being touched. Don't be clunky.

I've never met any girl who's too shy to reject a kiss if they really don't like you lol Most women are stronger than that unless they have really low self-esteem.

 

[Bboy100]

that's some pretty extreme social pressure, if you're getting girls to kiss you just because it's less awkward than rejecting you.

I've never met any girl who's too shy to reject a kiss if they really don't like you lol Most women are stronger than that unless they have really low self-esteem.

Yeah, that's what I thought too for the better part of a year. I was getting girls to kiss me or more left and right. But none of them would go out on a second date with me (the only exception being girls I managed to sleep with on a first date). For a long time, thought this was because I was getting them on an "emotional high" by spiking attraction super hard, but once the date was over, they felt like sluts because I gave them no "logical" reason to kiss me. And I guess technically, this could still be true. But it doesn't really solve my problem. I still don't know when to move things forward. No matter what the explanation, its become clear to me that "just going for it" or "moving faster" is not always the best possible route.

Anyways...a few months back, I had a date with this one girl. Same deal. Kissed her several times towards the end, she reciprocated and didn't say anything negative about it. Then I texted her for a second date. No reply. Just like the rest of them. I texted her a few more time (over the course of a few days). She finally replied. At first, she gave me BS excuses for why she can't see me again (i.e. she said she's way too busy, she doesn't know when she has time etc). After dealing with those objections, she finally gave me the real reason. It was something along these lines:

Her: To be completely honest with you, I had a good time hanging out with you, but it made me super uncomfortable that you kissed me the first time we met.

To me, this was such a weird statement because when I did kiss her, she didn't protest, she didn't resist, she didn't do anything to communicate that this wasn't pleasant for her. And she seemed like a perfectly normal girl (i.e. no signs of low self-esteem or other mental problems which would inhibit her from asserting her boundaries)

After that day, I realized that I easily might have been doing the exact same thing with a bunch of other girls, which was why I had such a hard time getting second dates. Now, I've almost stopped kissing girls on first dates entirely. The only exception is when they give me an obvious escalation window which I wouldn't want to miss (for me, this is pretty rare. Most girls don't give me "signals" of any type. I usually just have to make it happen on my own). And now, I almost always get second dates given that the first went well.

If you make them feel "too easy", the chances of them coming back again is very low. If you think you're being too unattainable and player-ish, it's a good time to be real and joke about some of your insecure side as well

Tell me more about this. How exactly would you go about doing that?

 

[Smith]

Anyways...a few months back, I had a date with this one girl. Same deal. Kissed her several times towards the end, she reciprocated and didn't say anything negative about it. Then I texted her for a second date. No reply. Just like the rest of them. I texted her a few more time (over the course of a few days). She finally replied. At first, she gave me BS excuses for why she can't see me again (i.e. she said she's way too busy, she doesn't know when she has time etc). After dealing with those objections, she finally gave me the real reason. It was something along these line

I had a similar situation a few months ago with a girl I was really into. We made out and kissed goodbye on our first date, but she didn't reply any of my texts afterwards, and I had a feeling that she felt like a slut afterwards or something because kissing on a first date can be pretty fast for some girls...especially inexperienced ones.

Now I think kissing on the first date wasn't the problem. It was because I was pushing too hard and didn't consider how she was feeling. So just think win-win. I usually tell the girl I want her to feel good too if I sense that she's a little resistance to kissing or sex. And I'm genuine about it. I don't want her to feel uncomfortable at all. You want to let her know that that having sex with you is a win and there's absolutely no downside. Sometimes you'll just have to be very patient on the first date...A couple of my first date lays were over 8 hours lol.

Tell me more about this. How exactly would you go about doing that?

use self-deprecating humour if she starts to tease you for being a player, but at the same time connect with her about how you were teased for your hair when you were in high school or something. Show her you're a human too and has emotion..not just some cold asshole player lol. Also show her you actually care about her, because this is a complaint I kept getting recently....girls think I don't care about them lol. It's ok to text her a little more if you think that's what necessary.

 

[Bboy100]

Now I think kissing on the first date wasn't the problem. It was because I was pushing too hard and didn't consider how she was feeling. So just think win-win.

Yeah, this is what I meant. When I say "I don't kiss girls on first dates anymore", it's not because I think there's something intrinsic about a first date which makes kissing unfavorable. Rather, I think that either my first dates don't last long enough to build enough comfort for a girl to want to kiss me, and/or I'm not at a level where I can build comfort within the timeframe of one date. Obviously, an 8 hour date would be an exception. But usually, I don't have that much time and neither does she.

In any case...I think its this "win-win" thing that troubles me. I have almost no sense of when it would be a "win" for her. Or in other words, when she's comfortable enough for various forms of escalation. Clearly, laughing/smiling and other forms of open body language/behaviors are not enough because as outlined by both our experiences, despite the lack of negative reactions, girls will still flake. So I think that the core question is: How do I tell when a girl would consider it a "win" for her for me to escalate with her?

 

[lao che]

what i'm thinking here is that you're not getting second dates NOT because you were sooo ungentlemanly when you forced your kisses upon these poor girls, but rather, the girls were left disappointed that you didn't try to go further (what chase calls auto-rejection)

also, depends where and how you are kissing these girls. generally you should avoid kissing at all until you are ready to get down and dirty, be it in your bedroom or living room, or in some back alley or secluded park

 

[Smith]

In any case...I think its this "win-win" thing that troubles me. I have almost no sense of when it would be a "win" for her. Or in other words, when she's comfortable enough for various forms of escalation. Clearly, laughing/smiling and other forms of open body language/behaviors are not enough because as outlined by both our experiences, despite the lack of negative reactions, girls will still flake. So I think that the core question is: How do I tell when a girl would consider it a "win" for her for me to escalate with her?

I think look at the overall experience. Pretty much all the times the girl has come back for more is when I stopped focusing on having sex with her, but just have an overall enjoyable experience with her. And of course, sex is part of the fun as well, but I think the girl really appreciate it if you don't put all your focus on just trying to get into her pants. She does want to fuck you too, but she also wants to connect and share stories as well. Don't overthink this. There's no definite signs that you can tell whether it's a win for her. Go with your feelings.

 

[Bboy100]

I think look at the overall experience. Pretty much all the times the girl has come back for more is when I stopped focusing on having sex with her, but just have an overall enjoyable experience with her. And of course, sex is part of the fun as well, but I think the girl really appreciate it if you don't put all your focus on just trying to get into her pants. She does want to fuck you too, but she also wants to connect and share stories as well. Don't overthink this. There's no definite signs that you can tell whether it's a win for her. Go with your feelings.

Yeah, this is an attitude i've recently adopted as well, and it's helped me quite a bit. But I never thought to think of physical escalation as part of "the overall experience". I guess that for some reason, I separated the two into binary categories. I think its because I worry that if I don't think about when/how to move things forward, I might never do it. But fuckit, I'll just try this out. I'll be completely present an not worry about anything at all except having fun and adding value, and we'll see where it leads me. Thanks Smith!

what i'm thinking here is that you're not getting second dates NOT because you were sooo ungentlemanly when you forced your kisses upon these poor girls, but rather, the girls were left disappointed that you didn't try to go further (what chase calls auto-rejection).

I don't think this is it. In the OP, I said "getting girls to kiss me or more" very intentionally. This is because I always always pushed the interaction as much as I could because I firmly believed in the concept of "move fast or die" (which based on my experiences is totally false. In fact, I'm starting to believe that the more time put into a girl, the more likely she is to be receptive to be receptive to sexual advances).

Almost half the time, I would isolate the girls (oftentimes without them knowing that we're going to a secluded location) and I'd start escalating with them there. Naturally, I ran into a insurmountable amounts of LMR and lost them almost every time.

also, depends where and how you are kissing these girls. generally you should avoid kissing at all until you are ready to get down and dirty, be it in your bedroom or living room, or in some back alley or secluded park

Yeah, I used to make the mistake of kissing girls in public. I don't do that anymore. Nowadays it'll always be when we're completely alone.