Girls who don't want to pay for dates

[trashKENNUT]

I saw the other post that you guys talk about girls and who pays for it. I like to add my input here.

Girls who wants guys to pay for dates lands in three categories:

1) Hopeless Romantic,

One who's naive and still believes in Taylor Swift Love's story. (Joking about that, i like her songs). They expect you to pay. She might offer to pay for you, and if you deflect and say she should buy you dinner later. She be quiet, and she do it for you later.

2) Doesn't like you all that much

She probably doesn't like you all that much and wants free lunch. I have girl friends even admit this themselves.

3) Experienced women

They tend to be quiet or they bring it up early because they don't want it to be a trouble. Some girls actually did that with me.

Thoughts?

Zac

 

[Estate]

I think you have a point on all 3.

But which ones is any particular girl? Any why does it matter?
I think this topic came up in the old PUA days where it was like "DON'T PAY FOR GIRLS" and it was totally mis-interpreted to NEVER pay for girls ANYTIME.

Look, you are the man... be a man. If you ask a girl out to dinner.. expect to pay and don't begrudge it... even if she offers (which I like)... still pay.
If you can't afford it, don't invite her on expensive dates.

If this is just all a big ego boost to see if you can "make" her pay... I think it's just so low value.


The original idea for not paying was a Mystery thing... the point was that he was running game where he'd bounce around a club opening girl after girl and if a girl he initally hooked asked for a drink, he'd say NO. I agree with this, it almost is a qualifying tactic... or more of a filtering tactic... if he can only earn her investment by buying her a drink she asks for within minutes then she won't stick around after she gets it. Same goes for opening a girl by asking if you can buy her a drink or offering within minutes... it's low value and kinda expected.

But if it's a bar or club... if you've already gotten to rapport with her and she is investing... there is nothing wrong with moving her to the bar and saying lets get a drink. You're not even asking if you can buy her one... I usually say after a while that I want to get a drink and when I'm ordering just ask what she's having... I think that even is a good move. You know she's not just there for the drink, and you look good by not making a big deal of it, you are doing what YOU want and the MANLY thing to do is buy a round like as if you were with a friend going to the bar.

The whole idea was warped by the community somewhere along the lines though.... where guys would deliberately go on dinner dates and other expensive dates and try to make her pay... or do other things like making the girl pick you up in her car or stuff like that... basically, make her do things which are traditionally the guys job... I feel all that is so low value.
If you just want a hookup then you shouldn't be going on those type of dates in the first place... if you want a girlfriend and DO go on those type of dates then be a man and pay. This is where the community gets weird... they reject the traditional male roles in a relationship as "AFC"... not ALL things are AFC.

 

[PinotNoir]

Hmmm, yes, this is tough.

I think Estate has valid points here, and it's been discussed before (I think by Franco).

If you can't afford to pay or think the girl is a gold digger, don't take her to a nice restaurant. Even if you don't pay, it's setting the frame that you are going to a nice restaurant -- boyfriend style.

If you go to a coffee shop, paying for a couple of coffees isn't going to hurt your wallet, and you're setting a good frame from the beginning.

I think the most important part is this: don't making paying or not paying a focus.

If you offer to pay and she says "no," don't argue back and forth, just let her pay.
If the waiter asks "separate or together?", answer "together," give your plastic card, and start talking about something else.

Important points:

• In my honest opinion, the best way to pay is without her knowing. If it's in a restaurant, pay while she's in the bathroom. If it's at a bar, go up and buy 2 drinks without telling/asking her. Just do it casually, like a dominant man. Don't ask or discuss it.
• Don't go to expensive restaurants on the first few dates. Go to "informational dates" like Chase suggests. The best option: make food together back at your place.
• At a bar/club, never ask a girl if you can buy her a drink, and if she asks you to buy her a drink, don't oblige. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

It also depends on the girl, the culture, etc.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Estate,

But which ones is any particular girl? Any why does it matter?
I think this topic came up in the old PUA days where it was like "DON'T PAY FOR GIRLS" and it was totally mis-interpreted to NEVER pay for girls ANYTIME.

You can't really know the particular kind of girl until you actually talk to her first. This is one of the reasons why making the date informal and casual is an important thing.

and you are right, It doesn't matter. This is just reference points. But it will be a good knowledge to know that if you happen to establish a connection with a women and get cues from her so that she is not interested and taking advantage of the moment you taking out your wallet.

Like you said, Better not take her to expensive places at all, but then you need a drink or two after talking for awhile, this is where it applies.

If this is just all a big ego boost to see if you can "make" her pay... I think it's just so low value.

I think you are missing the point. This is not about "making" her pay that makes you look good (maybe it does depends on perspective). It is to make her invest in you during the entire date.

But if it's a bar or club... if you've already gotten to rapport with her and she is investing... there is nothing wrong with moving her to the bar and saying lets get a drink. You're not even asking if you can buy her one... I usually say after a while that I want to get a drink and when I'm ordering just ask what she's having... I think that even is a good move. You know she's not just there for the drink, and you look good by not making a big deal of it, you are doing what YOU want and the MANLY thing to do is buy a round like as if you were with a friend going to the bar.

It's not a big deal, and it varies on her investment level with you. Buying her a drink just means shooting yourself in the foot if you haven't talk to her other than knowing her name.

PinotNoir,

If you go to a coffee shop, paying for a couple of coffees isn't going to hurt your wallet, and you're setting a good frame from the beginning.

Some girls offer to pay for themselves. The frame is like what you said below, "Don't make paying or not paying a focus".

It also depends on the girl, the culture, etc.

Depends on how conservative she is, culture, yada yada. i think it's always good to meet her first, partially before bouncing off to a coffeeshop or Starbucks and purchase a drink.

Zac