Great opens, terrible dates. What am I doing wrong?

[Ralph111]

I used to do well on first dates. I would take almost each one home, and the rest would at least end with a makeout by the car.
As I’ve progressed in game, improved my fundamentals, and gotten better at opening girls and setting up dates, I’ve gotten worse on the actual meet up. Still do fine with average girls, but whenever I meet a girl that I’m really excited about, I mess it up.

What really bugs me is that the way the dates end are almost carbon copies of each other (which suggests that I’m making the same mistake in each case). She’ll show up excited and nervous. Then, somehow her attraction dwindles (often only evident in hindsight), and we end up having a non romantic conversation, but nothing too awkward. When I go for an escalation (asking her to go for a walk, or touching her hand, or asking her home), her demeanor changes like a flash of lightning, she excuses herself politely, says she has to be somewhere, and before walking away says something like “enjoy your coffee” or something that can basically be interpreted as “please stay put and don’t follow me”.

I’m thinking maybe I give off a rapy vibe, or chase too hard, or come off as a player. I’ve tried being in a calm state and an excited state, initiating touch early and late, deep diving and keeping it light.

I can’t experiment much with this because I only meet one or two girls a year that I’m excited about (probably due to a lack of quality girls in my life). I know this post is all over the place, but I’m lost. Don’t even know what area of seduction or personality to work on.

Really appreciate any feedback

 

[Ralph111]

I used to do well on first dates. I would take almost each one home, and the rest would at least end with a makeout by the car.
As I’ve progressed in game, improved my fundamentals, and gotten better at opening girls and setting up dates, I’ve gotten worse on the actual meet up. Still do fine with average girls, but whenever I meet a girl that I’m really excited about, I mess it up.

What really bugs me is that the way the dates end are almost carbon copies of each other (which suggests that I’m making the same mistake in each case). She’ll show up excited and nervous. Then, somehow her attraction dwindles (often only evident in hindsight), and we end up having a non romantic conversation, but nothing too awkward. When I go for an escalation (asking her to go for a walk, or touching her hand, or asking her home), her demeanor changes like a flash of lightning, she excuses herself politely, says she has to be somewhere, and before walking away says something like “enjoy your coffee” or something that can basically be interpreted as “please stay put and don’t follow me”.

I’m thinking maybe I give off a rapy vibe, or chase too hard, or come off as a player. I’ve tried being in a calm state and an excited state, initiating touch early and late, deep diving and keeping it light.

I can’t experiment much with this because I only meet one or two girls a year that I’m excited about (probably due to a lack of quality girls in my life). I know this post is all over the place, but I’m lost. Don’t even know what area of seduction or personality to work on.

Really appreciate any feedback

Also, these girls are very conscientious and driven (or at least try to come off that way). Maybe they are seeing me as a provider and I’m coming off as a rusty lover lol

 

[Dragon913]

can u upload a foto of ur fundamentals? ex ur body,clothes, face etc...

 

[Ralph111]

can u upload a foto of ur fundamentals? ex ur body,clothes, face etc...

I think that might be against the rules, and I’d rather not post my photos here. My fundamentals are good enough to get good responses on approach and to number close and stuff like that, so I don’t think that’s the problem

 

[BigPapa]

I would say that maybe you talk too much about yourself , when she should do most of the talking and you just need to ask questions , be warm and touch her . Then push for isolation in a quiet place

 

[Ralph111]

I would say that maybe you talk too much about yourself , when she should do most of the talking and you just need to ask questions , be warm and touch her . Then push for isolation in a quiet place

Thanks for the feedback!
But the thing is, I’ve tried being both more quiet and more energetic. And what’s bothering me is the intense “you’re a freakin serial killer creep” reactions I’ve gotten. I’ve gotten it a few times while touching, but once with zero touch as well.
My hunch right now is that I’m coming across extremely needy (since I’m trying to “bring my A game). But does being needy repulse girls so much that it causes this kind of reaction???

 

[BigPapa]

Well i Do not believe that you come across as needy , but rather a try hard and this is a value destroyer .

when your value is low you tend to get this kind of results , as she thinks that she is higher value than you are which is not a great place to be . Girls expectation is that the guy is a little bit better than her value wise

 

[Ralph111]

Well i Do not believe that you come across as needy , but rather a try hard and this is a value destroyer .

when your value is low you tend to get this kind of results , as she thinks that she is higher value than you are which is not a great place to be . Girls expectation is that the guy is a little bit better than her value wise

That makes sense. Is it possible the reaction is so bad because, judging by how I did everything leading up to the date, their expectations and the reality of who I turned out to be was so different that they felt lied to or tricked?

 

[BigPapa]

You were not congruent , you acted in a way when you met her , and then when you saw her again the image that she had about you was not congruent with how you were acting .

just act the same as when you met her , be relaxed ,warm , deep dive , touch her and isolate her

 

[Ralph111]

You were not congruent , you acted in a way when you met her , and then when you saw her again the image that she had about you was not congruent with how you were acting .

just act the same as when you met her , be relaxed ,warm , deep dive , touch her and isolate her

Alright, I’ll see how I do next time. Thanks man, I appreciate it!

 

[Ralph111]

A

You were not congruent , you acted in a way when you met her , and then when you saw her again the image that she had about you was not congruent with how you were acting .

just act the same as when you met her , be relaxed ,warm , deep dive , touch her and isolate her

Also, I’m sure most guys experience that feeling when you let a girl down like this. It feels 10x worse than just getting rejected off the bat. I feel like I cut off my balls and threw them out the window in front of her, and now she thinks I’m something less than a man. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

 

[BigPapa]

Well self reflection is key . She did not reject you , she rejected Some guy that was clowning around trying to impress her , even though he did not have any reasons to do so . She already agreed to meet with you again so it means she is interested , your job is only not to fuck it up .
Do not think about it too much , shit happens when you are learning something

 

[Ralph111]

Well self reflection is key . She did not reject you , she rejected Some guy that was clowning around trying to impress her , even though he did not have any reasons to do so . She already agreed to meet with you again so it means she is interested , your job is only not to fuck it up .
Do not think about it too much , shit happens when you are learning something

She didn’t agree to meet again she probably blocked my number for all I know.
Ok, I’ll tough through it I guess

 

[BigPapa]

Does not matter , cold approaches are like that . I think is better to improve your fundamentals .

for example , when I walk on the street I get strong eye contact from everyone : girls , men , old people .Sometimes it feels wired and I start feeling uncomfortable thinking that maybe I walk funny or have something on my face ,Then I rush to look myself in the mirror and realize that nothing is wrong haha

this happens even when i wear sunglasses and I see people looking at me but they not realizing that I look at them

 

[BigPapa]

actually @Ralph111 now that I wrote the above post , I started thinking about this eye contact more , and the wired thing is that men give me in genera more strong eye contact than women . The super wired thing is that most of them look very heterosexual , and it just does not make any sense

 

[Ralph111]

actually @Ralph111 now that I wrote the above post , I started thinking about this eye contact more , and the wired thing is that men give me in genera more strong eye contact than women . The super wired thing is that most of them look very heterosexual , and it just does not make any sense

Maybe you have a masculine look that men notice

 

[BigPapa]

But this sounds very gay haha

for me it just does not make any sense for why a guy would make eye contact with another guy that he does not know ... you know a couple of times you say ,eh maybe he is into men or likes my jacket , or whatever , but this happens too often ...

Does this happens to you also ?

 

[Ralph111]

Yeah

But this sounds very gay haha

for me it just does not make any sense for why a guy would make eye contact with another guy that he does not know ... you know a couple of times you say ,eh maybe he is into men or likes my jacket , or whatever , but this happens too often ...

Does this happens to you also ?

yes. But I also make eye contact with men and give them nods. Just a sign of respect in my view.idk maybe people are different where I’m from and it’s more normal here

 

[Vincent]

I used to do well on first dates. I would take almost each one home, and the rest would at least end with a makeout by the car.
As I’ve progressed in game, improved my fundamentals, and gotten better at opening girls and setting up dates, I’ve gotten worse on the actual meet up. Still do fine with average girls, but whenever I meet a girl that I’m really excited about, I mess it up.

What really bugs me is that the way the dates end are almost carbon copies of each other (which suggests that I’m making the same mistake in each case). She’ll show up excited and nervous. Then, somehow her attraction dwindles (often only evident in hindsight), and we end up having a non romantic conversation, but nothing too awkward. When I go for an escalation (asking her to go for a walk, or touching her hand, or asking her home), her demeanor changes like a flash of lightning, she excuses herself politely, says she has to be somewhere, and before walking away says something like “enjoy your coffee” or something that can basically be interpreted as “please stay put and don’t follow me”.

I’m thinking maybe I give off a rapy vibe, or chase too hard, or come off as a player. I’ve tried being in a calm state and an excited state, initiating touch early and late, deep diving and keeping it light.

I can’t experiment much with this because I only meet one or two girls a year that I’m excited about (probably due to a lack of quality girls in my life). I know this post is all over the place, but I’m lost. Don’t even know what area of seduction or personality to work on.

Really appreciate any feedback

I used to do well on first dates. I would take almost each one home, and the rest would at least end with a makeout by the car.
As I’ve progressed in game, improved my fundamentals, and gotten better at opening girls and setting up dates, I’ve gotten worse on the actual meet up. Still do fine with average girls, but whenever I meet a girl that I’m really excited about, I mess it up.

What really bugs me is that the way the dates end are almost carbon copies of each other (which suggests that I’m making the same mistake in each case). She’ll show up excited and nervous. Then, somehow her attraction dwindles (often only evident in hindsight), and we end up having a non romantic conversation, but nothing too awkward. When I go for an escalation (asking her to go for a walk, or touching her hand, or asking her home), her demeanor changes like a flash of lightning, she excuses herself politely, says she has to be somewhere, and before walking away says something like “enjoy your coffee” or something that can basically be interpreted as “please stay put and don’t follow me”.

I’m thinking maybe I give off a rapy vibe, or chase too hard, or come off as a player. I’ve tried being in a calm state and an excited state, initiating touch early and late, deep diving and keeping it light.

I can’t experiment much with this because I only meet one or two girls a year that I’m excited about (probably due to a lack of quality girls in my life). I know this post is all over the place, but I’m lost. Don’t even know what area of seduction or personality to work on.

Really appreciate any feedback

I had the same thing happen a few times I’ll tell you what I did. I believe you are going from 0-100 and it’s too soon. Firstly how is your touching on the date?How is your sex talk?and how is your flirting? I’ll explain each below. I know you said you initiate touch early and late but you should always use a ladder. start small and use incidental and protective touch. I have laid them out in order so if you are doing something I've mentioned then it could be the new one. but realistically you should be implementing all of them at once throughout the date.

1.Touching

Touching is very important. the problem I had like you(I think) is that I went from 0-100. this is my date plan for touching. once I meet the girl I give her a hug. that immediately breaks the touch barrier. if she is on a date with you she sees you sexually or is at least curious so touch her. then if we are going for a drink I lead her and say the bar is this way while I take her hand. I have never had a girl not hug me or take my hand. when you cross the road use protective touch by placing your hand across her stomach, little things like that. don't walk in silence have a convo and when you are seated touch her incidentally to make a point like on her elbow or when you reach the bar touch her back as she goes through the door. by doing this you build up to the kiss and make her comfortable with you by the end of the date. as with all things observe her reaction, as long as she is comfortable keep doing it. if she isn't pull back a little you pull back a little (use calibration). this is why when you go for intimate touch like hand holding late in the date she is shocked because you hit her with it rather than doing it at the beginning and building up like ladder one foot at a time.

2. Flirting

I can't stress this enough but TAKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO FLIRT. in deep diving, in sex talk and in blowing your nose lol. keeping the convo light is good but YOU MUST FLIRT. this keeps the tension high and her excited. I say this as it seems to me she is getting board on the date. don't worry it happened to me too. that's why the average girls are happy but the attractive ones aren't. the attractive girls have a lot of options so you must be different. don't entertain just flirt and be sexual.

3.Sex talk

I have a plan when I go on a date. This might sound weird but when you are new you need one. In fact I have a specific time when I start sex talk using Daniel’s method. For example within 20 minutes of deep diving and flirting I say ‘i read something in the news paper or on a documentary that girls with the most hip movement have the best orgasms, what do you think’. this is a transition technique used to change the convo sexual. trust me the girls always have something to say about it. whether she agrees or not is irrelevant you can even ask her about her own orgasms at this point. then continue to talk more about sex USE CALIBRATION if she is excited and interested continue if not come back to it later. as the man you must lead and lead the convo where you want it to go. there are many of sex talk gambits and strategies from Alek on the website. you can even use this as an opportunity to display a non judgemental attitude towards a woman sexuality by pointing out the fact women love sex so she doest have to pretend with you and give her a wink. no other men do this. she should start to feel comfortable and relaxed around you. after a few minutes of sex talk you can fractionate her(also on the website from Alek) back to deep diving for a later return to sex talk again which should be easier now you've done it before. I like the mirror gambit(for non judgemental attitude) and the transitional ones its your choice explore and try one out. just search the names on the main site 'fractionation simply explained', 'the mirror gambit 'and the 'TS gambit https://www.girlschase.com/content/tantric-sexual-prizing-routine-makes-her-wet-words. '

I hope this helps. everyone else before has said a few good things also so implement those also.

 

[Ralph111]

I had the same thing happen a few times I’ll tell you what I did. I believe you are going from 0-100 and it’s too soon. Firstly how is your touching on the date?How is your sex talk?and how is your flirting? I’ll explain each below. I know you said you initiate touch early and late but you should always use a ladder. start small and use incidental and protective touch. I have laid them out in order so if you are doing something I've mentioned then it could be the new one. but realistically you should be implementing all of them at once throughout the date.

1.Touching

Touching is very important. the problem I had like you(I think) is that I went from 0-100. this is my date plan for touching. once I meet the girl I give her a hug. that immediately breaks the touch barrier. if she is on a date with you she sees you sexually or is at least curious so touch her. then if we are going for a drink I lead her and say the bar is this way while I take her hand. I have never had a girl not hug me or take my hand. when you cross the road use protective touch by placing your hand across her stomach, little things like that. don't walk in silence have a convo and when you are seated touch her incidentally to make a point like on her elbow or when you reach the bar touch her back as she goes through the door. by doing this you build up to the kiss and make her comfortable with you by the end of the date. as with all things observe her reaction, as long as she is comfortable keep doing it. if she isn't pull back a little you pull back a little (use calibration). this is why when you go for intimate touch like hand holding late in the date she is shocked because you hit her with it rather than doing it at the beginning and building up like ladder one foot at a time.

2. Flirting

I can't stress this enough but TAKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO FLIRT. in deep diving, in sex talk and in blowing your nose lol. keeping the convo light is good but YOU MUST FLIRT. this keeps the tension high and her excited. I say this as it seems to me she is getting board on the date. don't worry it happened to me too. that's why the average girls are happy but the attractive ones aren't. the attractive girls have a lot of options so you must be different. don't entertain just flirt and be sexual.

3.Sex talk

I have a plan when I go on a date. This might sound weird but when you are new you need one. In fact I have a specific time when I start sex talk using Daniel’s method. For example within 20 minutes of deep diving and flirting I say ‘i read something in the news paper or on a documentary that girls with the most hip movement have the best orgasms, what do you think’. this is a transition technique used to change the convo sexual. trust me the girls always have something to say about it. whether she agrees or not is irrelevant you can even ask her about her own orgasms at this point. then continue to talk more about sex USE CALIBRATION if she is excited and interested continue if not come back to it later. as the man you must lead and lead the convo where you want it to go. there are many of sex talk gambits and strategies from Alek on the website. you can even use this as an opportunity to display a non judgemental attitude towards a woman sexuality by pointing out the fact women love sex so she doest have to pretend with you and give her a wink. no other men do this. she should start to feel comfortable and relaxed around you. after a few minutes of sex talk you can fractionate her(also on the website from Alek) back to deep diving for a later return to sex talk again which should be easier now you've done it before. I like the mirror gambit(for non judgemental attitude) and the transitional ones its your choice explore and try one out. just search the names on the main site 'fractionation simply explained', 'the mirror gambit 'and the 'TS gambit https://www.girlschase.com/content/tantric-sexual-prizing-routine-makes-her-wet-words. '

I hope this helps. everyone else before has said a few good things also so implement those also.

Thank you so much brother! Had another average girl date last night. I used incidental and protective touch early, but kept it to a minimum until she started initiating “accidentally”.
I’ll have to practice what you said on average girls and hope I’m ready when the next heartbreaker comes along