What's new

FR  Hot colleague, failed pull - What to do?

Shadow

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
38
[Background]

I've recently moved abroad on a long-term project as an Xpat. One of the cutest girls in the office is ironically the HR. She's sexy, fun, super positive, great energy. She's been flirting with me lightly, but I didn’t take it personal as he kind of does it with a few people to an extent. It took one of my colleagues to highlight that she’s interested as she speaks to me and mentions me way too often. I started flirting back a bit more and eventually SHE invited me to hang out in a dinner with two other colleagues (2on2 basically). Obviously, this was framed as a work thing, but signals were too strong to take that seriously. Unfortunately, on the day of the meetup one of our colleagues announced he’s taking everyone for drinks and dinner as it’s his birthday - so our 2on2 dinner turned into a 30+ office party.

Key things here really are – we both work on the same floor, with the same people and we have positions that rely on having good reputation. I’ve always tried to avoid work flings, but given my temporary status, how amazing she is and the fact I’m on a rather long dry spell I thought I’d go ahead. However, in the circumstances, I played this very discrete and casual that night which might have been part of my mistake.

[Night out]

{BAR}

I head out to a bar next to the office – everyone is already there. Partially intentionally, partially by chance, I ignored her in the beginning. I chatted up with some colleagues, flirted with a few others. Everyone was getting quite drunk quite quickly. I think throughout the night she and I were the soberest ones (relatively). We chatted up a bit on very basic/work topics and eventually we were urged to head out to the restaurant. From here on we were literally inseparable for the next 9 hours or so…
On the way to the restaurant, we walked together – either 1on1 or with someone else. We talked about work and slowly transitioned it into more personal stuff and views.

{Restaurant}

In the restaurant, we sat together. We were around 15~ people at this point. She’ll act super nice, translate for me (xpat life.. people always switch to mother tongue when drunk), touch me in friendly ways... She gave a massage to one of her girlfriends from work on the table (weird stuff, but was funny) and I almost convinced her to give me one as well, but I think the ‘work environment’ stopped her. We started talking about local customs, recommendations. She started sending me places to go on my work email, so I used that to get her number – told her she can just message me and she gave me her phone to write my number in. Not the best effort, but it worked. The other highlight from here is when she told me:
-You’ve probably noticed, we touch everyone a lot when we talk around here.
Which kind of put me back a foot as I started thinking if I’m making up this connection and she’s just like that with everyone again.

{CLUB}

Eventually, we head out to a club with one of the locals. We are about 7-8 people at this point. We jump in 2 taxis, and again I sit next to her on a back of a taxi (she waved at me to go with her in her taxi..). In the club, nothing much happened. We danced a bit, chatted a bit (as much as possible really). I saved the only other girl left with us from this creep hitting on her a few times in a very suave way which I think helped as well. People started leaving, most asking my girl if she’d like to leave as well. She’d decline to everyone. We were about 4-5 people left when she told me "I’ll be leaving in 5-10minutes". My alarm started banging in my head so I pulled her in, put my hand behind her head and whispered in her ear "Lets leave now, its getting boring here". She agreed instantly. We said our goodbyes with the rest, I casually took her hand and lead her out of the club.
This is where things started turning bad slowly. Once we are outside, we find one of her best friends from work standing on a wall super drunk and looking at his phone. I joked whether we should say HI to him, but of course she did. I started testing the waters for a pull, and asked them both if they want to go for a nightcap at a nice rooftop (my house, but did not mention it). She didn’t disagree nor agree, however the guy threw me under the bus a bit by saying "No NO… Sell it to me… Nah sounds dull" … So anyhow, we put him in a taxi and sent him home. She said lets walk up to X and we’ll get cabs there and I agreed. During the way I did some deep diving… Tried for a pull again and this is where I fucked up properly I believe:

-"It’s not too late that we go for a last drink"
- "Ah but its so late (4am~).. And where would we go anyway?
- "This really cool bar on a rooftop"
- "Ah but that means we need to go there first.. then get another taxi home…"
- "Where do you live?"
- " Staying at my apartment at X tonight".
- "Well that is kind of on the way! It’s like a triangle to get there"
-"Triangle?!" looking at me confused
- "Yeah my house is near Y and then you go to X" // waving with my hands… Big mistake I mentioned I lived there – showed cards down
- "Ah no no, it’s too late, I’m too old" // she’s 28

Oh well! With a chicken pull like that you get a chicken result. We keep moving towards the taxis. When we get there I say:

- " Shall we even be getting two taxis?"
- "We can take one and share !"

We get in the same taxi and head out. She asks me:

- "Where shall we go first?"
- "Lets drop you off first" I say // not sure why now..

During the trip we start deep diving and I try again to persuade her to come to mine:

- "It’s still not too late to get a night cap. I have a few crazy swiss neighbours, we might even crash their party"
- "No we’ll do it another time…"
- "But you are always busy, when we’ll we get another time really? I’m going back home next weekend for a week.." /// Think this was a very weak frame. When I think about it now it sounds a bit desperate.
- "We can go for a coffee one day, it doesn’t have to involve alcohol."
She then suddenly asks me:
- "You sure you don’t want to drop you off first?" // Was this a window to pull again?!
- "No, let’s drop you off"

Eventually we get there, she gives me a kiss on the cheek and gets off. I was considering going for a proper kiss in the taxi, but I’ve done this before where my pull fails and I go for the kiss which just destroys the interest completely and I never hear from them again. Before she leaves, we say our goodbye and I say:

- "You missed out on some cool last drinks :)" // I think this was a poor ego-saving response. Can't remember exactly how she took it, but I don't think she was super impressed.

When I got home, I opened my phone and I had a message from her with 2 photos and a "Good night!" I replied with " Hehe awesome. No swiss on the roof so off to be indeed. Night ;)"

Radio silence since.

[Recap]

Looking back now, I believe that had I pulled properly things would of went a different way. The thing is I was confused by this whole work environment social pressure thing - too much risks which made me lose it. I was always on the edge between “don’t shit where you eat” to “omg just do it”. Moreover, I was silly enough to get the idea in my head that she is not a ‘1night stand girl’ and that she would ‘probably not go home with me on the first night’. Both of these basically came out in my half-arsed attempts for pull.

Question now is what now? I’ll see her in the office on Wednesday … Do I ask her for a coffee? Do I drop her completely while shit still hasn’t hit the fan completely? Any advice? I’ve never dipped into a work fling before so I’m not quite sure what the etiquette is… I've obviously fucked it up a bit, but is this a point of no return?
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
492
after a quick read through i'll say that this was a no-go from the start, partly because of bad play on your behalf - basically, she was left with no choice but to go home alone as she needed the deniability at work the next day. if 4 or 6 or 20 people saw you getting close to her and then you were witnessed leaving together ..... bad bad bad for her. she needs to be able to hold her head up confidently at work.

better play would have been to just act friendly with her and everyone else and seduce her on the quiet. making sure no one knows and she knows that you can keep your mouth shut

as for the future, just be like the fonzie, brother, play it cool. act as if nothing is up, which is true. you didn't really fuck anything up too bad. the "always busy" thing is a bit weak, and she did suggest a coffee which you might have jumped on.

but basically, act normal, she sees you acting normal, everything will be normal.
 

Seppuku

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
1,149
Hey Shadow,

It's a nicely written report.

In addition to what lao_che wrote about discretion and deniability, I would add two comments. And sorry in advance for being blunt here.

1. You waited way too late for pulling. It's 4am. You waited that she feels like leaving, meaning she's tired and want to go to bed. Considering that you need to account for maybe 20 minutes transport, rebuilding comfort at home, then escalate, then sex, that would lead you to at least 6am!

2. You wanted to pull to yet another drink place! (bar on rooftop). Then there, you would still need to figure out how to pull her home. You are just deferring the pull question by another two hours. I think you already had way enough face time and good signals going on. Consider than one to two hours of face time ever, and sometimes even less, is sufficient to pull a girl who likes you.

How about pulling her at 2am, when she is still in good shape? There would be still plenty of time left for escalation. And then, no more intermediary place. Pull to your place. Have any pretext ready "I have this nice playlist of classical music" or whatever works for you. The way you frame your request is important too. If it feels like you're asking her opinion, it comes off weak and you're more likely to get a flaky excuse. How about acting like the sale has already been done? It's my favorite.
You: Come on, let's go! you take her by the hand and lead her. Obviously still need to be conscious of who is watching though
Her: Yeah sure!
Her (a few minutes later): Going where?
You: I have this nice playlist of classical music in my place ;-)
You: changing subjects before she objects: Did you enjoy the evening?
But that's only one possible way of pulling from a more authoritative frame. At no point did you ask for her opinion.

Moreover, I was silly enough to get the idea in my head that she is not a ‘1night stand girl’ and that she would ‘probably not go home with me on the first night’.
Yes you're right. This is a mistake that we have ALL made at some point. Even if you want this to be a 3 nights stand or an LTR, it has to start with a first night stand. And the best time ever to try, is the first time, when your chances are highest. The lesson is to always, always assume the girl is a one night stand girl, no matter if you have more serious intentions. You stand much better chances by assuming this. Plus now, she is likely become a zero night stand girl. My God how many girls did I lose before I finally got that in my little brain? And how many girls did I get, once I started really applying this mindset?

It was a nice move not to kiss, because at this point it would have finished to kill the vibe. Your last comments on last roof drinks were weak - like you realized. She knows you're after sex but you insist on trying to make her believe it was about just another drink.

The pressure of work environment, I do really understand, and I would hesitate, too. But you have to make your mind what you really want, and once you start for it, go all the way. You cannot afford to hesitate once you started.

Alright, now for what's next, my feeling is it's fucked up. The best strategy seems to be to act completely normal with her (no fancy references to the roof top bar now, which has become the symbol of your failed pull), like nothing happened, and let it sink a bit, a week or so at least. See how the vibe goes in the meanwhile. If it still resonates good, you invite her on a one on one with, this time, a complete end to end plan to pull her home. And else, you move on!

Cheers,
Seppuku
 

Shadow

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
38
Hi Both,

You are absolutely right. Good news is things were not lost, bad news is I fucked it up again :)

Played it cool next day, vibe was awesome, she was still flirting a bit. Eventually when I felt it was all okay (2-3 days later), I asked her out for drinks after work - she agreed quite easily. Planned the logistics and pretty much everything I could. Everything was going perfectly , we both left work at 7 very incognito, walked down to my area, had dinner, deep diving etc.. Pulled her to my house and this is where she threw a curve ball that again dropped me. She casually mentioned her long term boyfriend. So now it was a colleague with a boyfriend. Again hesitation reappeared and plus her flirtatiousness decreased quite a bit at my place - so it took me probably 45 minutes to try to kiss her. She moved her head and I kissed her cheek. Didn't grow the balls to try again, even though she stayed without hesitation for another 45 minutes.

Somehow, this didn't kill this either. Next day was pretty okay as well. However, had to properly reestablish comfort and vibe this time. Eventually texted her 5 days later to try for another outing (fully expecting to be blown off given the history) and she slid me down the 'very busy - can't do lunch or dinner but we can get a coffee downstairs' route. Fair enough, well deserved. I played it cool and said we'll figure something out. Next day we had some banter at work and I honestly had no expectations for anything after my waterfall of fails. End of the day, she walks to me and tells me "we are going for drinks downstairs - come join us". Oh well - can't ignore all my colleagues because of her. Went down, some chatting, some drinks with her, but I mainly focused on other people at this point. At one point she pulls me away and says "we are going to the other bar if you'd like to join". Two invites in one night? So I go. And this is where it gets really interesting. We are 5-6 colleagues and she is flirting with me like insanely. and buying me drinks to get me drunk. We ended up holding hands in front of everyone while she is groaning my palm from the inside. She literally told me "You are very brave this time" (again, quite well deserved - made me giggle). There was no way to pull here without making it ridiculously obvious (looking back now, not sure how much more obvious it could get anyway). She was travelling back with one of our colleagues as they were sharing a cab in a far away area. So I tried proposing a dinner before we all leave. EVERYONE says no, however she starts almost begging the colleague she is leaving with to stay for food. He declines. I tried to persuade her to stay by herself, but couldn't. And then she tells me "just come with us, we'll take a tube for a few stops and we'll figure it out". At this point I'm god smacked (and tipsy). In my poor head this meant "I might stay but only if the rest are not here". So I jumped on, we went to the designated metro stop, same proposal again, she hesitates, other colleague refuses... And they both go home leaving me. Tipsy me texted her:

- You are bad...
- We are not bad. Just arrived home. Have you arrived home?
- Dinner first. Not sure if bad or just playing with fire.
- Ok. Just playing with fire? Why? Go home and sleep tomorrow will be a new day.


Next day, my colleague told her off to not flirt with me so much and made her feel a bit shit. Obviously the dynamic of everything now changed and it has been weird for the last few days. We did have a few moments of friendlyness and minimal flirting a few days later, but she ended up telling me "you have a weird energy today". Again fair enough, as my 'play it cool' vibe kind got murdered by all of these non-cool moments. So she is right.

Going on holiday now for 5 days which I feel I desperately need emotionally. I'd love to hear your thoughts of this though as it goes against everything I've experienced before. If there was any logic into this, this would of never happened after my fuck ups. And a colleague with a long term boyfriend would never flirt with me so hard in front of 6 people from the same company... My initial thought was she is just leading/using me, but after careful consideration that is out the door as well.

Lessons learned:
1. Grow balls, make a decision and stick with it regardless, never hesitate with a girl at your house
2. Need to work on my persuasion/persistence definitely

Thanks in advance for your support and honesty :)
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
492
She's playing with you

All of this holding hands around colleagues etc is bad bad bad. And you're basically following her everywhere hoping that she'll put out if you just hang around begging a bit longer. Trust me brother, I'm the master of shitting where I eat and this is not good. Esp if colleagues know she is in a relationship (might have been a lie)

However, you did well prior to that, getting her back home. Though The ltr line was a test. She wanted you to overcome that barrier and fuck her anyway. No strings and not getting needy for her after

We all fuck up man, I just fucked up epically, my first date in months lol

Take it easy here - be friendly st work, a little more professional

And remember this girl don't want another boyfriend, you understand what I'm saying?
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
492
By the way, no more dating with this girl,

If there's a next move it's gotta be her visiting your home, no coffee or drinks or anything else

You both know where you stand, now, so cut to the chase.

Cook for her, tell her to bring wine. And tell her to keep her damn hands off you in the office

She can have drama, or dick, but she can't have both
 

Shadow

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
38
Hi lao che,

Thanks for the honest input! Just to clarify a few points:

1) She definitely has a boyfriend - checked this. However, she never brings him to company parties (its a company tradition to do so) and there have been quite a few times lately where she has slept over at a different apartment instead at their house (they live together). Smells like a 'I'm leaving him, but need to catch a new branch first' situation to me?
2) I'm starting to think that it all started as a fling attempt, but due to my slowness she started considering me for a boyfriend role.... I'm essentially on an xpat project in her country, on a quite high position coming from ' hq'... That also results in pretty good financial situation in comparison
3) Or I'm overthinking the above and you are right - she is just playing me for attention

She keeps messaging me on our work chat with random stuff that is not needed and flirting.. Going offline in a few hours for a few days... Hopefully brain will reset.
 

Seppuku

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
1,149
Yep! I'm in line with lao che.

I read it this way. She was ready and willing to go to bed with you. But the more you hesitated and failed to lead her to bed, the harder she made it for you. It is done, now.

* The first time, there was no mention at all of a boyfriend. I bet she would have followed you. But you didn't lead her to bed.
* The second time, you took her home, good, but she throwed the boyfriend in the middle to make it harder. You hesitated, no bed.
* The third time, now it's only about meeting you in social context. At this stage, yes, she was playing with you.

Your best chance was the first time. The second time you could have made it, if you had deflected the boyfriend arrow that she threw on purpose. The third time you should have declined the invitation. Generally speaking, you shouldn't accept a date on her terms, or a date in a social setting like here.

No matter she looks "not this kind of girl", or not, you should proceed exactly the same. If you are able to seduce a girl very fast, and smoothly, you will just wow her. You will see her gratitude in her eyes. She will wish she met more men like this. If you do it right, she will just be coming for more! Like lao che said, she was not looking for a boyfriend here. Although you never know, the position could have very well become vacant for you in the role, had you managed to seduce her.

Also, I don't know what it is about kissing. You start the escalation by touching her, first casually, then deliberately, then sexually. The kiss comes very late in the escalation, when half of the clothes are already out and you are sure you will penetrate her. No need to take unnecessary risks!

For your own moral well being and dignity, you shouldn't interact with her now except for professional reasons. Take it as a good lesson, so that you can improve next time.

Seppuku
 

Shadow

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
38
Thanks Seppuku!

Wise advise. Hopefully this will be my last post on this topic :)
 

Seppuku

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
1,149
Hey Shadow,

We didn't learn all this stuff in one day. It's a whole learning process! You are welcome to post as often as you see fit.

Cheers,
Seppuku
 
Top