How a mind of a frustrated guy who sees no results with women actually works

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Though I did say I would take a long break from this forum on a thread of mines, I don't have the advice and plan I need to live the life I want to live. Despite all that, this site has really given me valuable information and I decided it would be time I gave something back.

I believe too often naturals try to give frustrated guys out there advice and often come off as naive. Think of a guy who grew up in a nice neighborhood in New England telling a group of kids who grew up in a poor gang-infested neighborhood in California how beautiful and awesome life is. Most likely, the kids in the California neighborhood would look at him like he is crazy, and then proceed to beat him up. So what it actually takes for a person from a privileged neighborhood to help people from an underprivileged neighborhood is at least some understanding.

Right now it is time to understand how the mind of a guy who is terrible with women but wants to be good with women actually works. How a guy who is frustrated because his dating life sucks so bad actually sees the world.

Background: I have a lot of friends who are terrible with women and have talked to them, I have lurked on forums where guys mostly complained about not being able to score, and though I have improved my dating life from being a loser that would rarely go out right now I struggle with not getting the kind of girls I want. For most of my teens I was terrible with women and sometimes heard jokes from my classmates for not being able to get a girlfriend, I guess I never really wanted one back then. As time would go on I would get better with the opposite sex but right now I have come across a roadblock in that I cannot get the kind of women I am attracted to, have had no luck with them.

So after seeing what I have been through and talking to many guys who were terrible with women in the past years, I came up with this thread.

The Buildup aka what has led guys to their current state:

I have found that almost all of the guys I have known who were terrible with women had some things in common:

1. Lack of love towards their family (feeling that their parents were too strict or just didn't care about them)

2. To an extent bullied or ignored by the circles they were in growing up (doesn't have to be physical but just any type of disrespect)

3. Poor treatment by the opposite sex while growing up (hearing girls call them ugly, having girls manipulate them, and just not enough positive experiences with girls while growing up)

4. Disrespect from guys who would be perceived as "alpha males" while growing (jocks laughed at them, the guy that was liked and loved either bullied them or acted like they didn't exist, and guys that were not nerds picked on them in some way)

These 4 things (there are more), whether it is just one or more than one (I find that it is 3 along with something else on the list), will usually give you a frustrated male who isn't good with women.

Now that we know how these guys have been constructed, lets get into what keeps them in their current state.

I know it is somewhat common for us to think that these guys are negative and pessimistic but that isn't always true. Some guys I have known were funny, social, and positive but still struggled with women. I saw their frustration show when I had the chance to know them better and talk to them, the misogynistic comments and negativity all came out. Here is what I have observed overtime that has kept these guys in their state:

1. A belief that they are very different from the guy most women want and such guys are pre-selected (genetics).

Among men on the shorter side and men who were members of minority groups stereotyped as sexually unappealing (like me for example), this has been a major issue. Now truthfully most women prefer guys that are taller on average and White guys generally don't face as much discrimination from women as members of minority groups that are seen as sexually unappealing (most of the times it seems to be asian and middle eastern men). The whole belief that they are so much more different from the male ideal makes the notion of self-improvement pointless. Unfortunately I still suffer from traces of this issue.

2. Reassurance from society and reality about your limiting beliefs.

Say a guy believes girls are not into guys that have something in common with him (say his race). The guy goes out, takes a trip throughout his neighborhood or city, and doesn't see any men of his background doing well. His limiting belief is reassured. Can also work in other ways. Say a guy has never known someone who struggled with women but then managed to turn their results around, he assumes you must be good with women at an early age in order to succeed. This here has affected me the most and affects me right now. I am a desi male born and raised in America and I like attractive blondes, have never seen one with a man of my heritage before, like ever, and this does push a lot of limiting beliefs in my head because I have known cool desis who managed to get hot girls of other races.

3. A belief that everyone is laughing at them and always saying something negative about them.

This goes back to being bullied, treated poorly girls growing up, and not being accepted by the respected guys they knew growing up. I have had this issue in the past and it has made me into a nasty person. One of my friends called a girl a bitch and went on a tirade about her after she playfully made a comment about his shirt. When I talked to him days later he told me that he has always had a bad experience with girls and the "cool kids" picking on him as he grew up. It is like hearing voices in your head where everyone that you perceive as being cool or somewhat important hates you and has a vendetta against you. Makes social interactions and going to social gatherings a lot harder. The poor treatment by girls and being rejected by alpha males shows its face here.

4. An idea that you have come so far but hot girls still don't want you after all you have accomplished.

Despite what everyone might think, a lot of these guys have made an effort to actually improve themselves (style, fitness, going out more, etc.). I commonly see this with guys who used to be overweight and skinnyfat but then after months of hardwork finally had a nice body to show off. They thought that they would get the girls they wanted but it didn't workout that way. Even after all they have done to improve, the love lives that these guys have still suck or just don't exist. This really kills a lot of these guys from the inside, especially when they see that someone who is worse than they are (overweight guy in a fraternity) is getting the girls they should be getting.

5. A belief that hot girls are evil/fake/manipulative/cold.

I can easily see this being the case for most of these guys. A lot of them will not even talk to hot girls and assume that she is just some stuck up person. Now in their defense, when someone who is hot treats us like shit we tend to have our feelings hurt more as opposed to when someone who isn't as hot does it. After all these years I still don't know the verdict on hot girls. In college I have seen that the hot sorority girls are some of the meanest and coldest individuals on the planet but in my travels I have met women who were attractive and good people to be around. The poor treatment these guys receive by the opposite sex while growing up starts to show here.

What is really happening is that the current beliefs are being reassured by bad experiences in the past which makes it very hard to break out of this state of mind.

Current social interactions are being fueled by negative beliefs that get backed up by bad and traumatic social experiences growing up. A guy sees a pretty girl and doesn't approach her because hot girls in high school picked on him and made fun of him. As a result he doesn't approach her and even when he does it ends up being awkward and lacks confidence. Hot girl shows no interest and the guy's negative beliefs are reassured again. It now turns into a cycle that keeps repeating itself and makes for the frustrated male you see right now.

The outcome of what happens if these guys stay like this for too long and don't receive help or advice.

A month ago I went to a site called PUAHate and saw a section called "Shitty Advice". I lurked on there for a week or so and then my mind just couldn't take it. The place was dark and a poisonous area of the internet. These guys can easily become sadists and bitter people, in extreme cases a danger to society. I have seen a lot of these guys develop misogynistic, racist, bigoted, and overall hateful attitudes towards other people.

Now for the toughest part. Taking THAT guy and improving his life.

Various "PUA" and "seduction" programs have tried, failed, and received anger from such men. The mistake a lot of these PUA programs make is always being positive because these guys see that as fake (even I do TBH). So now we know that always being positive won't work. If I knew how to help guys like that then I wouldn't be on this site asking for advice. What I have seen is where so much material out there goes wrong and how this site gets it right.
For example, in his threads on "poisonous beliefs about women", chase told me how the sorority girls are very different from other kinds of girls out there and what worked for him. I could see a "self help" or "PUA guru" saying something along the lines of "hay man just be cool, have balls when approaching, and she will be drawn to you".

Ideas for helping frustrated guys are out there and this site has many good ones but it is tough and takes a long time. Even though I feel like I have come a long way, I still have some minor limiting beliefs and issues.

 

[PatriotsRule]

Great post that i can relate to, im sure a lot of people will learn something from this. I struggled with my self esteem my whole life and still do but in the last year plus the last two months reading gc i have built my self esteem up quite a lot, its hard to stay strong when you battle self esteem problems but really the mentality of the self loathing man is really just a warped perception of the reality, these are all things that hit really deeply but can be beaten down hard with a little confidence and persistence (and maybe a lack of shame time to time haha)

 

[Eric]

I stay away from PUAHate and Aaron Sleezy.

Absolutely love his books, but I stay far removed from them.

Those types of people are vampires who settle for average lives and reject the notion of skill as a way to compensate for their victim mentality. Sure, I agree PUA is a load of crap, but seduction no. Seduction is fun and pretty awesome, a lot to be learned.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I have never looked much at Aaron Sleazy's stuff and PUAHate is hilarious, for some reason I find great humor in reading that site.

For me the biggest problem right now is just wondering even if I do my best if that will ever be enough. As I have noted on previous threads, I don't have problems with most women but I do run into struggles with the kind of girls I am into right now and the ones who make up the majority at my college. The worst part about it for me is the "is it me?" vs "is it just my area then?" type of mentality that I start to develop while I am in this state of mind. This kind of stuff is so hard to really get an analysis of since so many people don't talk about it. They say if you are gaming hot white girls as a foreign looking dude in Mississippi then chances are you going to have little to no success but how can you tell if it is really Mississippi or if rich hot White girls just don't dig guys that look too foreign (asian, stereotypical midde eastern, etc.).

It is the kind of stuff it is hard to get answers to. Franco has given me a lot of good info and even went as far as to tell me about his friend which does lift my spirit and he is out in Southern California, a place I have not spent much time in (Bay Area kid here).

The problem I am having is a mix of internal and external I believe. Internal because a part of me wants to still have success with certain kinds of girls (well off, white, and good looking) and external because I live in a kind of area where anything foreign (non-European, so an Italian or French guy won't count) is not too well liked.

 

[Eternity]

Approach 5 women 18-35 age bracket, only white girls, and compare your results. Outside your school so you don't think it's the girls residing there fault. Then we can tell you what to work on. Self pity and limiting beliefs are doing you a disservice to yourself and other people from your race and foreigners who get the wrong idea about approaching these types of women. I love white girls, they are my favorite type of girl i go for, and no i'm not white either.

 

[Chase]

Oh Pry-

Yes, I see a lot of these things in certain people / kinds of people.

When you're in the self-help industry in any kind, you will spend time trying to help the un-help-able when you first get started because you believe so hard in your ability to help that you just KNOW you can transform their lives if you work at it hard enough.

And you CAN, but...

The amount of time and energy it takes to transform the life of one guy who holds mentalities like this and has a strong emotional need to hold onto them and stay in victim mentality, because his core identity is rooted in him being unloved by women, can be used instead to improve the lives of 1,000 men who are comfortable enough to say, "I suck. Tell me what to do, and I will go do it until I have spent every ounce of energy in my body."

Had you met me as a teenager and said, "Yo, Chase, you've got to check out this website GirlsChase.com - dude, if you just do the stuff on this site, it's going to change your life completely!" I would have told you whatever, I don't need it, and besides, you don't even know what you're talking about. You could've spent the next 6 months trying to convince me to go do the stuff on that site, and I'd never have done it. Not until I reached a point where I took a good, hard look at my internals and said, "This whole I'm-not-going-to-change-until-life-becomes-more-fair mantra I'm sticking to ain't working. What else can I try?" was I open to it, and the moment I became open to it, I started doing it and learning it.

The guys who want to argue with you and tell you you're wrong and that it will never work for them cannot be helped. They're right; they can't be helped. You cannot force anyone to change; change takes an enormous amount of resolve and motivation, and these guys just don't have it for whatever reason. Maybe it's the luck of the draw and life's just dealt them a cruddy hand; if so, that's tragic... but if you're running around trying to play superman and save them, you'll quickly find your hand getting brushed aside and efforts going nowhere. They may reach a point where they get fed up at their own failure to grab life by the horns, and quit blaming the world and the other people within it and start casting about for answers, and at that point they become one of the guys whose lives you will change.

But the ones you help end up being the ones who have already started thinking they want to fix this stuff, and probably would have done it on their own anyway (though probably it'd have taken them a lot longer / a lot more work without any guidance). Just like picking up girls is about finding the ones you like who are also looking for what you have to offer (and improving your offering so that more women are looking for it as you go), helping people improve their lives is about finding the ones you have something to offer to who also are looking for what you have to offer, as well.

Chase

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

That was a great post Chase and it made sense, even resonated with me. For the past few days I have taken time off from the forums and thought about where my personal limiting beliefs come from and I ended up writing some of it down. As you know, I am a foreign looking dude (Desi) who has done well with women that were not White and even some White girls who were from Europe and such but has fallen hard on face when it has come to trying to attract the hot White girls from well off families. I don't even get why it is. So I thought about why I feel the way I do and I wrote it down:

1. Historically I have had a bad experience with the kind of places these girls come from, I found people in the suburbs to be rude, cold, unwelcoming, and just very cliquish.

2. I have never experienced success with these girls before.

3. I have approached these girls before and had bad experiences such as them not being receptive, them calling some guy to tell me to go away, or sometimes them giving me the rude look when I would try my luck.

4. I was constantly reminded growing up by the society I grew up in how I would never be as great or amazing as some guy who is born in America and happens to be White, if you are aware, Oriental people in general have a strong urge to drag each other down.

It is like for me, even though I have the answer as to why I feel the way I do and the reason, I can't help but shake it. I could have an amazing dating life if I targeted the small number of girls from minority groups but then my ego would take a shot and I would keep thinking to myself "well that is because I was not good enough for White girls".

For me what is causing this headache and issue is my MASSIVE EGO. I would never take failure that easily and would keep trying. Same in this situation, if one or two or even 10 hot White girls who seem to be from well off families reject me, let it be. But in my situation I feel like every single hot girl in my college who happens to be White wants nothing to do with me. I feel that even if I became a doctor, made 6 figures, and worked to be attractive I would never be able to get the kind of girls I want to get (hot White American girls). Like I feel that these girls have been taught by birth from their parents, social circles, and close friends to hate men of my color.

The problem that I have as a member of a minority group that is less then 2 percent of the US population is we don't have role models. One of the few attractive and well off Desi men I have seen are all married to Indian women and the rest are dating latin, black, or asian women. I have never in my life here on the east coast met a man from my background who has done amazing with the kind of girls I am going after, if I did, then I would keep trying.