How do you handle people who are clearly above you?

[sneaky_charm]

I understand that we need to treat everyone as equal, and I do. But the problem is, most people who are above you in some way (richer, your boss, an elder family member) rarely want to be treated as equal. They want to feel superior in most cases even though they may not be in thousand other ways except that one thing. The problem is, if we become a 'yes man' and agree to everything, we run the risk of losing respect quickly. At the same time, disagreements can be FATAL.

So how do you treat superior people (in their minds) in a way that you do not make them resent you, but make them respect you?

 

[Lotus]

When disagreing with someone in a higher position of power/authority, you have to do it in a respectful manner and provide value. It comes down to how you convey the message, explain yourself.

(I'll pretend we are talking about a boss at work)
One does not simply tell their boss "no, i don't like that". Explain why you disagree, show respect for his/her opinion and he/she will show respect for yours.

Most of the time when disagreeements "blow up" it is because someone ego was hurt. You don't disagree with your boss in front of other employees, you don't yell at your coach in the middle of practice in front of the team.

what are you refering to specifically? It would help me tailor my response for a better example.

 

[sneaky_charm]

Hi Brum!

Thanks for the reply. What I'm asking is, how do you handle people who think that they are above you in some way. I mean, you cannot agree to everything with such people, because if you do that, any socially calibrated person will know that you are trying to be in his or her good book. And some will view you as weak, since you are trying too hard to please. Hell even I can sometimes tell who is trying to please me, by feeding me what I want to hear. And honestly, I don't really respect them much. I like them, but respect, no.

I want to know what is the sweet spot between not coming across as a people pleaser and not hurting their ego. An example would be nice, but I am looking for a more general answer.

 

[Drck]

It goes back to your overall frame.

In classical hierarchy, the top positions are usually occupied by "Alpha" - senior/experienced/more educated members, wise elderly and so on. The positions below are occupied by "Betas". Many Betas usually try to climb up the social ladder to Alpha positions, simply to get more recognition, more satisfaction, more respect, and perhaps more pussy. Once they get to some higher/Alpha position they hold to the position as long as possible - until they are replaced by another Beta...

So the default frame of Alpha is to keep Alpha position, and default frame of many Betas is to climb to Alpha position. It is like a Game. There are of course lots of fake Alphas, and there are lots of Betas that could perform equally, if not better than current Alpha...

So if you have to respect people who are on "higher" position of the ladder while you are stuck on low/Beta position while having "Alpha mind", it can get quite difficult. You could easily lose your job if you show disagreement, or be punished in many other ways simply because current Alpha and current climbing Betas can feel threatened by your attempts or disagreements... People may respect Alpha or climbing Beta, but they may not like them, thus you could create lots of enemies quite fast...

One way to deal with it is to simply follow the same ladder like everybody else. Learn how the company dynamics work, become more assertive and then climb to a higher position.

Say you work in a larger company and you want to climb up the ladder to higher position. You are relatively new and unknown, so you should build your case, and it might take some time. If you know nothing, it would be smart not to start jumping around with great ideas and innovations, attempting to be better than others who are already established and so on. Chances are that you piss many people off, and because of that you get fired. You simply don't have name recognition or respect at this time, you have to build it first because you are at the lowest Beta position.

Generally speaking, to climb up the ladder you want to use assertiveness, people on your side, and brains - be smart, don't make enemies make friends, show solid accomplishments...

But now, say you work for that company longer time, you made some good friends (including your supervisors), and you have some good performance/solid results behind you - so you can start pushing yourself higher. You may want to do some extra work, volunteer here and there, do some presentation so others can notice your effort... Now you are somewhere in the middle of Betas ladder.

Time goes by, say now you have a good name already, good friends and supporters, you understand the company dynamics, how things work internally between people, who is brown nose and who isn't, you have good performance and so on. So now you can be much more aggressive, start pushing and demanding more, start using your elbows. You can influence other Betas, perhaps your bosses with good ideas. People will go with it because you already have some respect and name. Now you are at the top of Beta ladder, and perhaps you can push and push - till you get the desired Alpha position...

You can also learn to be proactive, assertive. In stead of waiting till your boss tells you to do something, create a plan with couple choices. Give your boss choices: Do you want to do A, B or C? He can decide, but you kind of holding the situation in your hands already, because you've already pre-think those choices, you are just giving your boss the option. Your frame changed, you are not just following orders, you are creating different options, you are leading... As a smart Beta, you don't want to have your boss against you. You want to have him on your site while climbing over his back to the top, LOL.

You can use "aikido" style, you take your bosses energy and amplify it, turn it into your own advantages. Boss says: Hey, do A and B. Ok, you do A and B - but you also add C to it, no problem. All you emphasize is of course C only because that is what YOU wanted. You go back to your boss or other people, discuss A and B in 30 seconds - but then you talk 10 minutes about that great C of yours that you have accomplished - which, of course, you couldn't do without doing A and B at first! Boss happy, you happy, company happy, and now you build a great advantage for yourself: Now others know that you can THINK and DO... Climbing up the ladder even higher, making sure that boss's back is wide enough so you can stand comfortably on it while he is supporting you...

The other way is that you simply avoid the whole Alpha/Beta crap. Fuck those ladders. You become Sigma, a guy who gives two shits about what's going on in the company at first place. One shit about Betas, and the other shit about Alphas. Let them fight their big battles, you don't play their Game, you don't go by their politics. You just show up, you do your job well so you can keep it, you keep friends on your side, you cash the paycheck and that is it.

Should a higher position open, you simply apply to it, giving a third shit whether you get it or not. By the time they decide who is Alpha with highest chances to get best females, and who is Beta that supposed to follow orders and get all the leftovers - you've already fucked all the desirable females in the company anyway. Perhaps that itself will push you up higher on the same ladder, and most likely you will be much more likable anyway since you are not as threatening and you don't have brown nose like many climbing Betas...

So you don't handle those people at all, you simply avoid playing their Game while keeping them on your side...

 

[sneaky_charm]

Hi Drck, thanks man!

Actually, I am more interested in the social side. I don't work for any organization, so I don't have to handle work politics. I mean day to day, some guy you meet at the bar who is famous, your landlord who is bigger in age, an old person who is rich etc. etc. How do you socialize with them in a way that they do not view you as another person who just wants to impress (because really, I don't give a shit about hierarchy and treat everyone as kinda equal, I talk less and often not very reactive or trying to please, and that is what leads to ego hurts). At the same time, they do not view you as arrogant prick who acts like he knows it all.

Okay, let's make this a bit simpler. I know it seems like I'm all over the place.

Well, how will you talk to a person who is 20 years older than you, and has many accomplishments greater than you?

1. For instance, if he asks you for help, but does not give you much in return, will you continue helping him or doing favors just because he is in a better position. If not, how will you handle it in such a way that the person does not resent you for being non-compliant?

2. Suppose you meet a new group, and you sense a bit of coldness from the group leader because he views you as a threat to his dominance, how do you blend in without threatening the group leader, but at the same time, without worshiping him either?

and situations like that...!

 

[Drck]

Your frame is always important, and you always have some frame...

People have different accomplishments. The guy might be 20 years older and have 100 more accomplishments than you. Ok, he is essentially on 'Alpha' position in comparison to you because you are comparing yourself to his accomplishments. So by default you might feel "lesser" than him because of his good accomplishments (more money, older, more education/knowledge, more experience,...). And true, this can be sometimes intimidating.

But if you follow Sigma frame it is much easier. You do of course respect his accomplishments, but at the same time you don't really give a damn about them. Why? Because in you mind your own accomplishments are much more important. It kind of have to do it with your self esteem: You are the high value man, and no matter who you deal with, you are still the high value man. To be that man you should develop and keep strong frame...

As Beta you naturally may feel on lesser position if all you have is $2,000 while the other guy has $100,000. As Sigma, you naturally could care less about his $100,000 because what is really important to you is those $2,000...

As Sigma, you create your own hierarchy, your own frame, your own ladder. You are at the top of your ladder, you don't step onto nor follow any other ladders. As Sigma, your $2000 are at the top of YOUR ladder, and his $100,000 are below. No, they don't even belong to your ladder, they are simply on somebody else's ladder, who cares, it is not important to you. You value your own accomplishments no matter what others accomplished. However, you don't appear arrogant because you RESPECT him and his accomplishments as well. You simply keep him on your side as a friend, as a guy who you respect... You want to have those guys around, you want to learn from them so eventually there is $100K at the top of your ladder too...

Arrogant person is different. He wouldn't respect his accomplishments, he would just claim that he is the best with his $2,000, and none of the other guy is as good as him... Which is kind of ignorant. Arrogant person kind of stands against the other guy, he minimizes the other guy's accomplishments. I wouldn't do that, I would keep the other guy on my side, I would acknowledge the other guy's accomplishments....

Another way to see it is, that you don't want to appear much "higher" than the other person. For example, he is 20 years older and has many accomplishments greater than yours. That is good, give him the respect, he deserves it. He is at the top of his ladder. But, at the same time, you don't minimize your age and your accomplishments. You are 20 years younger but you have already accomplished ABC, which is great, top of your ladder...

There are probably better ways to explain it, I just can't think about any at the moment... You simply know your value as a man, and you always keep that value. Your value should be higher than the other person's value...

For example, with girls you don't want your value to be too high so she can't reach it, but it can't be too low either because she would disrespect you. You just want to be little bit over hers. If her pedestal is 100 inches from the ground, place your pedestal 120 inches from the ground. This way she can comfortably reach it, just one step, but if you place yours 150 inches she won't be able to reach it and she will fall into auto-rejection...

Ok, so maybe that guy's pedestal is 100 inches from the ground. Maybe you want to place yours to 90 inches. This way it is pretty much equal, yet you can still respect him and learn lots of things from him. Arrogant person would probably place his own pedestal to 500 inches from the ground, totally disregarding the other guy(s)...

You can use assertiveness - he asks you to do something, ok, no big deal. But you asks for something in return. Sometimes you don't even have to, sometimes all you have to say is something like: "Ok, I will do this for you, but you owe me for this one". Normal person should get right away, usually he doesn't want to "owe" you anything, and you should make it clear that it is 50/50. Next time he asks you to do the same, so you say something: "Ok, you owe me for these two things already - what you gonna do for me if I'll do this?". That is much stronger response, now you are asking him what he's gonna do for you. Now he's got to thing harder. Third time he asks you, so you reply: "Ok, no problem, but this is third time I'm doing something for you. I'll do it but only if you do this (XYZ) for me". And that is it, you showed good will, you did something extra for the other person, but now you are also requesting compliance. You have created condition - you'll do it but only if he does something back for you first...


Groups - similar to above, there is a guy who is on "Alpha" position towards you. Sigma frame will fix it fast - who gives a damn about him? He might be a great guy who you can respect, but he's got to earn the respect first. You are not trying to prove yourself to him (nor anybody else). The opposite is true: With the right frame, he's got to prove himself to you. You join the group and have fun, you have a high value as a man, and you could care less who is Alpha or Beta in that group... Yet, at the same time, your frame is open to respect and friendliness. You are friendly to everybody in that group. If he shows to be more of an asshole, ok, perhaps laugh and mirror him. Do the same, be an asshole to him - and be friend to everybody else. If he is fake Alpha he will destroy himself soon by getting upset. If he is true Alpha, he will want you to be on his side. If he is just an asshole who currently dominates that group - well, most likely he will remain an asshole no matter what you do...

 

[sneaky_charm]

Okay, so basically what you are saying is:

1. Those who view themselves as superior in some way in their mind, I should treat them like they are better, but not too better. Like if they are 10, then I am 8.

2. When dealing with a group Alpha, just ignore everything about hierarchy, and be friendly to everyone.

Got it, thanks!

 

[Drck]

Yea, it's kind of knowing your own value. If you were selling some goods on the street, you want to present them in a good way. You don't want to keep talking about what's bad about it and why not buy it - you want to amplify good things and reasons why is it a good buy... There are different product on the market, some bad others better... But you still want to sell your stuff as a good and valuable product. Or just because somebody drives full loaded Mercedes for 100K it doesn't mean that your Nissan for $25K is bad - it is still a great car with really good value...

The same way, you kind of want to "sell your skin" as a great, valuable man...