- Joined
- Dec 8, 2013
- Messages
- 58
Hey Guys. For a while I was hitting some rough spots maintaining attraction girls had for me when I would try to move things forward with them. It would seem like out of nowhere they would just cross me off as a sexual option in their head when they seemed rather flirty and receptive towards me before. I knew there was something I was doing wrong but I couldn't understand what it was. After a good deal of frustration I started thinking differently and worked to switch up the way I projected myself. Once I started thinking this way and utilized it, this issue seemed to mostly go away and things started getting a lot better. I was getting so much more attraction and positive results with girls, even some girls who were cold on me before that I knew I must have been on to something good. I thought I'd share with you guys this mini breakthrough that helped me a lot.
First thing id like to say is that the whole mating game with men is indeed a value game. That is undeniable. The woman comes into contact with you whether it is seeing you in your element or interacting with you directly. After getting a feel for you and sizing you up she determines if you are a man of high sexual value and you are “good enough for her” or that you are not sexually valuable enough for her . That's how attraction goes on a basic level without independants.
The thing is that most men don't understand how to correctly portray high sexual value through their actions, and more specifically I think its because most men don't try to actively understand whats going on in any given social interaction.
Here's an actual real life example of what I think what most men get wrong.
Timmy Zheng is a young guy in his mid 20s living in Manhattan. He has good business job and is pretty successful for his age. Although Timmy isn't ugly, he was never very good with girls and wasn't very socially valuable in his youth (specifically high school and college). He has been dressing and presenting himself better lately due to his financials and has become a bit more cocky due to his job, but he is still pretty lacking in the girls department.
Not having any prospects in his social circle (which is pretty small) or having a rich social life in general, He turns his sights towards a girl he knows very little (connection of a connection) whom he rarely talks to (maybe only once, and didn’t make any real impact) and reaches out to her on twitter. This girl is pretty good looking and has a good deal of followers on instagram because of this (so she's decently high value). In his tweet he invites her to a real nice exclusive function he is going to through his work on new years eve, he words his message in a short and suave, no big deal way to make himself look like hes cool and has some value
(I cant remember the exact wording but it was very close to this)
“Exclusive roof top party in midtown with a prime view of the ball drop. Interested?”
timmys logic isn’t horrible when you think about it
Do girls like financially successful guys? Yes
Do girls like guys with connections and access to exclusive parties in prime locations? Yes
And anybody who pays attention can tell you that guys do better in a situation when they approach girls nonchalant with little care then guys who try really hard and are super into it
And here's Timmy thinking he efficiently portrayed all these characteristics and that Jessica hopefully sees him as all of this when shes reads it like “oooh.... Timmy seems to be a real high value man who's going somewhere in life from what im seeing right here in front of me. I want to be with winners like timmy... you know what im gonna take him up on his offer.”
...Wrong
here's whats really going on in Jessica subconscious
-(checks tweet) “who is this guy, im not sure in know him.... ohhh is it that guy from xyz time ago.? K... is this a date hes asking me on? We never really talk and this is kind of outta nowhere. Its kinda weird that he doesn’t have anyone to ask to this thing but me, he doesn't even know me... yea this guy has no girl options in his life”
-She sees how his message is a little try hard and timmy is trying to be smooth in his wording
-she sees timmy's selfie picture in his business suit, and feels timmy is attempting to peacock and make himself look more attractive in his picture
…...and she decides to ignore timmy
HERE'S WHATS GOING ON IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS
A lot of us have been alive a good while now. And in this time we have had such large amounts of experience in things that they are just naturally engrained in our mind. English is a really difficult to learn language and has so many contradictory rules, yet it's so engrained in us that we don't even have to think about rules or any of it in general... we just think in English.
In this case we have so much social experience ourselves that we just know what kind of actions come from what mindsets and states. And we see this in other people.
So Jessica didn’t race though all those things in her logical mind like shes hyped up on a bunch of red bull, but they were all sort of realizations that happened effortlessly in her subconscious mind, much like how we don't have to try to hard to speak or think english, it just happens. All these did come together to make thoughts in her conscious mind, and that was “This guys a scrub.... don't think ill respond”
Timmy Zheng didn't look attractive... He looked like Timmy Zheng trying to act attractive
WE ARE A LOT MORE SEE THROUGH THAN WE THINK
its not completely crystal clear but unless you are a serious sociopath people can see whats going on underneath the surface with you... not the secret issues in your life or skeletons in your closet, but how you feel in a certain situation versus how you are trying to look like you feel to others around you. And they usually get a pretty decent sense of what you are actually trying to accomplish in a given situation.
-Its how we can tell when someone is really irritated by something when they're trying to keep their cool on the outside.
-Its in a social group in high-school, when that one kid is the lowest on the social ladder of the group, mainly because everybody can sense hes trying a little too hard to fit in the group, be cool around them, and adapt to the inside jokes
Its when you immediately want to turn a door to door salesman away before hes said anything because in your subconscious you think “If their product was really good then they wouldn't have to be desperately going door to door to try and sell and make sales pitches to random people like me, no really quality well known products have to go door to door, their too busy already selling. Also this guy at my doorstep probably doesn't make a very enviable yearly wage and he probably doesn't lead too lavish of a life.”
Some examples from myself lately. I can really clearly tell when a girl actually doesn't give a shit about me vs a girl who finds me valuable and is “playing games” trying to bait me into wanting her more.
My last semester there was this guy in my human origins classes that I could tell was trying really hard to make his walk look more masculine and macho
-If you are going out there and trying to make yourself look more attractive, people can probably see that your doing that
-And if you are a man who is trying to improve his skills with women, and doesn't have quite the sex life he wants either, and is actively going out trying to change that. Women can almost always feel a hint of that... if not all of it (which isn't good)
THEN WHAT DO WE DO?
Method acting. Its understanding motivations, what makes up people. Why they do what they do in certain situations. Its getting to the core mindset or physical cause instead of just imitating what we see on the outside.
And this is what so many of us our doing wrong. We are just observing what is sexually attractive in men and just trying to replicate and integrate it in ourselves.
This may work great for fundamentals (even though I can still see when people are try hard in those areas sometimes). But it will really fuck you over in your social interactions with the girl
Imagine if in some biopic (or even fictional movie) if the actor is just in costume and makeup and gives his best shot at the accent. It might turn out, ok
An amazing actor, one like Daniel Day Lewis studies his character inside and out, tries to empathize with them and fully understand their experiences and how they have impacted him, what makes them tick. He steps into their shoes, tries to look at world from their perspective and actually becomes the character. It ends up being a fantastic performance
This is what I want you to do with a sexually valuable man
WHAT DOES A SEXUALLY VALUABLE MAN ACT LIKE
I want you to imagine your ending DREAM goal of all this. If you are like me its being able to get what most guys consider “9s” and “10s” on command, to get laid with whatever girls I want, whenever I want... In Magic Johnson quantity.
I want you to jump to that and just imagine that is who you already are
If you were absolutely swimming in the highest value pussy and having a dream type of sex life that .0000001 percent of men get to experience, how do you think that would change your attitude? how would it change you as a person? how would it change the way you behave with towards women? how flirt with them and escalate differently? Think about living that life style and what it would do to you.
There's two major noticeable things in the way a very sexually high valuable man operates
1. He has so much positive experience that he is absolutely 100 percent sure of his sexual value, hes is so sure of his sexual value that he doesn't even really think about game or what he is doing anymore, his sexual side just comes out naturally a bit when he sees a girl he finds kinda appealing because he has no fear of rejection and its natural(If you slept with hundreds of “9s” and “10s” you wouldn't think about it anymore you would just know you are a boss and its prolly gonna happen)
2. Even more importantly he wouldn't try nearly as hard to close out the deal with girls. He has so much experience and options already that he's not too desperate or cares if things end up going all the way to the bedroom. Would he enjoy it? yeah (and it probably will happen because hes the highest value man there is) But if it doesn't happen with that girl than it will with the next girl (because women cant resist him) and if that doesn't happen he could call up one of his 9 FWBs.
And here's were you are probably thinking “hey this stuff is already on this site, #1 is assuming attraction and #2 is complete outcome independence” and you are right.
The thing was when I started grinding a while ago I learned all these things and memorized them, but it was hard to just whip them all out of my tool belt and perfectly utilize all of them perfectly in social situations even though I knew them inside and out. You can try to utilize the law of least effort, but still look like Timmy Zheng trying hard to be smooth unless you have the right mindset and source of your actions.
To be honest most of us are peon students of seduction (there is a reason why we found chase's site at some point). We are students trying to get as much experience in and learn any way we can, and this will seep out through our actions, women will be able to pick up on it. For a while after I started on this site and became really dedicated and was reading everything, and grinding but I failed with a lot of girls who were into me at the beginning, but I feel now it was because they sensed my true motives and whats was going on underneath. That I was this guy trying to get more sexual resources and get laid with anything (a late bloomer and a student, which isn't that attractive).
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST
The thing though is that even an already high value men can send wrong signals when they are not thinking from this perspective and are not conscious of the context and motives of their actions.
An example of this is how many people experience way lower success when they do straight cold approach. That's because high value man shouldn't need to go out on the street and do all these approaches that aren't convenient, because they should already have enough options already. Its not congruent with the mindset and motives of a sexually high value man.
Could you ever imagine James bond hitting the streets doing cold approach?? Fuck No
Hes too busy fucking the girl who just happened to sit next to him at the black jack table or wherever he was hanging out
Guys on this site like NarrowJ have reported having way worse results doing straight cold approach. I read NarrowJ says now he mostly just meets girls in day to day life and ends up sleeping with them. Finding a cute girl sitting next to you in the waiting room of an auto shop, sparking up some fun sexual energy with her, then turning both of your wait into little date while you both have nothing else to do sounds a little more congruent with a high value man than walking aimlessly around the street in search of females.
But the magic of being able to think from this mindset is that you can take something that wouldn't be congruent with high value and make it so that it is, only if you have the perspective to do so.
HOW RAW COLD APPROACH LOOKS COMING FROM AN VERY SEXUALLY VALUABLE MAN
(this is given that you are on the streets and that and you don't have any convenient reason to talk to the girl, and you have to go in direct)
(and its also assumed that your all of your fundamentals are on point and portray that you are a sexually high value man... now its just time to do the same with your actions)
-You see the girl and casually walk up behind her (I feel getting her attention with touch while she isn't looking is a bit bolder... as long as your not in a dangerous city where people are on edge) and you gently put your hand on her shoulder or the side of her arm.
(now your body language and tone of voice is important here, you should deliver this with absolutely no eagerness and like its the most casual thing in the world. The same way you order your morning coffee the thousandth time, but just with a bit more warmth and more of a personal vibe)
-wait for her to turn around and make full eye contact with you, when you have her full attention..
“Hey, (pleasant look but staying cool) I don't usually talk to random girls on the street... (slight pause, and kick up the tension just a bit) but its rare that I see a girl who's exactly my type”
and just stand there totally chill and hold eye contact until she reacts
-once you start the conversation mention early on that you were on your way somewhere you have to be and only have like 5 minutes even if its a lie (this will negate all the bad parts about raw cold approach and make her feel more comfortable because she doesn't have to worry about how long this will hold her up or if she will have to deal with losing you if it gets awkward)
Then remember, think what an extremely valuable man would do. What should be going on in your head? (she impressed me with her looks, but does her personality hold up too?... guess we'll see. If this little conversation goes well and she continues to impress and its fun and natural then ill convert on it)
“It would be cool (not amazing) if we (not “I would like to”) finished this conversation over some xyz sometime..... (her response) cool whats your number blah blah blah
If your all of your fundamentals are on point and she finds you physically attractive, she will be very turned on by this. You basically just told her through subtext that she was one of the girls special enough to make the cut for you, without looking like a douche or an arrogant prick, just confident.
Just always be thinking from the frame of mind, "if I was an extremely valuable man who all the hottest women wanted really bad (and I lay tons of them) how I would I actually act/react in this situation.?"
Its not a quick fix for everything as there are other parts to seduction. But you will be on the mark so much more with your actions, giving the right subtext and keeping her perception of you very positive.
First thing id like to say is that the whole mating game with men is indeed a value game. That is undeniable. The woman comes into contact with you whether it is seeing you in your element or interacting with you directly. After getting a feel for you and sizing you up she determines if you are a man of high sexual value and you are “good enough for her” or that you are not sexually valuable enough for her . That's how attraction goes on a basic level without independants.
The thing is that most men don't understand how to correctly portray high sexual value through their actions, and more specifically I think its because most men don't try to actively understand whats going on in any given social interaction.
Here's an actual real life example of what I think what most men get wrong.
Timmy Zheng is a young guy in his mid 20s living in Manhattan. He has good business job and is pretty successful for his age. Although Timmy isn't ugly, he was never very good with girls and wasn't very socially valuable in his youth (specifically high school and college). He has been dressing and presenting himself better lately due to his financials and has become a bit more cocky due to his job, but he is still pretty lacking in the girls department.
Not having any prospects in his social circle (which is pretty small) or having a rich social life in general, He turns his sights towards a girl he knows very little (connection of a connection) whom he rarely talks to (maybe only once, and didn’t make any real impact) and reaches out to her on twitter. This girl is pretty good looking and has a good deal of followers on instagram because of this (so she's decently high value). In his tweet he invites her to a real nice exclusive function he is going to through his work on new years eve, he words his message in a short and suave, no big deal way to make himself look like hes cool and has some value
(I cant remember the exact wording but it was very close to this)
“Exclusive roof top party in midtown with a prime view of the ball drop. Interested?”
timmys logic isn’t horrible when you think about it
Do girls like financially successful guys? Yes
Do girls like guys with connections and access to exclusive parties in prime locations? Yes
And anybody who pays attention can tell you that guys do better in a situation when they approach girls nonchalant with little care then guys who try really hard and are super into it
And here's Timmy thinking he efficiently portrayed all these characteristics and that Jessica hopefully sees him as all of this when shes reads it like “oooh.... Timmy seems to be a real high value man who's going somewhere in life from what im seeing right here in front of me. I want to be with winners like timmy... you know what im gonna take him up on his offer.”
...Wrong
here's whats really going on in Jessica subconscious
-(checks tweet) “who is this guy, im not sure in know him.... ohhh is it that guy from xyz time ago.? K... is this a date hes asking me on? We never really talk and this is kind of outta nowhere. Its kinda weird that he doesn’t have anyone to ask to this thing but me, he doesn't even know me... yea this guy has no girl options in his life”
-She sees how his message is a little try hard and timmy is trying to be smooth in his wording
-she sees timmy's selfie picture in his business suit, and feels timmy is attempting to peacock and make himself look more attractive in his picture
…...and she decides to ignore timmy
HERE'S WHATS GOING ON IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS
A lot of us have been alive a good while now. And in this time we have had such large amounts of experience in things that they are just naturally engrained in our mind. English is a really difficult to learn language and has so many contradictory rules, yet it's so engrained in us that we don't even have to think about rules or any of it in general... we just think in English.
In this case we have so much social experience ourselves that we just know what kind of actions come from what mindsets and states. And we see this in other people.
So Jessica didn’t race though all those things in her logical mind like shes hyped up on a bunch of red bull, but they were all sort of realizations that happened effortlessly in her subconscious mind, much like how we don't have to try to hard to speak or think english, it just happens. All these did come together to make thoughts in her conscious mind, and that was “This guys a scrub.... don't think ill respond”
Timmy Zheng didn't look attractive... He looked like Timmy Zheng trying to act attractive
WE ARE A LOT MORE SEE THROUGH THAN WE THINK
its not completely crystal clear but unless you are a serious sociopath people can see whats going on underneath the surface with you... not the secret issues in your life or skeletons in your closet, but how you feel in a certain situation versus how you are trying to look like you feel to others around you. And they usually get a pretty decent sense of what you are actually trying to accomplish in a given situation.
-Its how we can tell when someone is really irritated by something when they're trying to keep their cool on the outside.
-Its in a social group in high-school, when that one kid is the lowest on the social ladder of the group, mainly because everybody can sense hes trying a little too hard to fit in the group, be cool around them, and adapt to the inside jokes
Its when you immediately want to turn a door to door salesman away before hes said anything because in your subconscious you think “If their product was really good then they wouldn't have to be desperately going door to door to try and sell and make sales pitches to random people like me, no really quality well known products have to go door to door, their too busy already selling. Also this guy at my doorstep probably doesn't make a very enviable yearly wage and he probably doesn't lead too lavish of a life.”
Some examples from myself lately. I can really clearly tell when a girl actually doesn't give a shit about me vs a girl who finds me valuable and is “playing games” trying to bait me into wanting her more.
My last semester there was this guy in my human origins classes that I could tell was trying really hard to make his walk look more masculine and macho
-If you are going out there and trying to make yourself look more attractive, people can probably see that your doing that
-And if you are a man who is trying to improve his skills with women, and doesn't have quite the sex life he wants either, and is actively going out trying to change that. Women can almost always feel a hint of that... if not all of it (which isn't good)
THEN WHAT DO WE DO?
Method acting. Its understanding motivations, what makes up people. Why they do what they do in certain situations. Its getting to the core mindset or physical cause instead of just imitating what we see on the outside.
And this is what so many of us our doing wrong. We are just observing what is sexually attractive in men and just trying to replicate and integrate it in ourselves.
This may work great for fundamentals (even though I can still see when people are try hard in those areas sometimes). But it will really fuck you over in your social interactions with the girl
Imagine if in some biopic (or even fictional movie) if the actor is just in costume and makeup and gives his best shot at the accent. It might turn out, ok
An amazing actor, one like Daniel Day Lewis studies his character inside and out, tries to empathize with them and fully understand their experiences and how they have impacted him, what makes them tick. He steps into their shoes, tries to look at world from their perspective and actually becomes the character. It ends up being a fantastic performance
This is what I want you to do with a sexually valuable man
WHAT DOES A SEXUALLY VALUABLE MAN ACT LIKE
I want you to imagine your ending DREAM goal of all this. If you are like me its being able to get what most guys consider “9s” and “10s” on command, to get laid with whatever girls I want, whenever I want... In Magic Johnson quantity.
I want you to jump to that and just imagine that is who you already are
If you were absolutely swimming in the highest value pussy and having a dream type of sex life that .0000001 percent of men get to experience, how do you think that would change your attitude? how would it change you as a person? how would it change the way you behave with towards women? how flirt with them and escalate differently? Think about living that life style and what it would do to you.
There's two major noticeable things in the way a very sexually high valuable man operates
1. He has so much positive experience that he is absolutely 100 percent sure of his sexual value, hes is so sure of his sexual value that he doesn't even really think about game or what he is doing anymore, his sexual side just comes out naturally a bit when he sees a girl he finds kinda appealing because he has no fear of rejection and its natural(If you slept with hundreds of “9s” and “10s” you wouldn't think about it anymore you would just know you are a boss and its prolly gonna happen)
2. Even more importantly he wouldn't try nearly as hard to close out the deal with girls. He has so much experience and options already that he's not too desperate or cares if things end up going all the way to the bedroom. Would he enjoy it? yeah (and it probably will happen because hes the highest value man there is) But if it doesn't happen with that girl than it will with the next girl (because women cant resist him) and if that doesn't happen he could call up one of his 9 FWBs.
And here's were you are probably thinking “hey this stuff is already on this site, #1 is assuming attraction and #2 is complete outcome independence” and you are right.
The thing was when I started grinding a while ago I learned all these things and memorized them, but it was hard to just whip them all out of my tool belt and perfectly utilize all of them perfectly in social situations even though I knew them inside and out. You can try to utilize the law of least effort, but still look like Timmy Zheng trying hard to be smooth unless you have the right mindset and source of your actions.
To be honest most of us are peon students of seduction (there is a reason why we found chase's site at some point). We are students trying to get as much experience in and learn any way we can, and this will seep out through our actions, women will be able to pick up on it. For a while after I started on this site and became really dedicated and was reading everything, and grinding but I failed with a lot of girls who were into me at the beginning, but I feel now it was because they sensed my true motives and whats was going on underneath. That I was this guy trying to get more sexual resources and get laid with anything (a late bloomer and a student, which isn't that attractive).
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST
The thing though is that even an already high value men can send wrong signals when they are not thinking from this perspective and are not conscious of the context and motives of their actions.
An example of this is how many people experience way lower success when they do straight cold approach. That's because high value man shouldn't need to go out on the street and do all these approaches that aren't convenient, because they should already have enough options already. Its not congruent with the mindset and motives of a sexually high value man.
Could you ever imagine James bond hitting the streets doing cold approach?? Fuck No
Hes too busy fucking the girl who just happened to sit next to him at the black jack table or wherever he was hanging out
Guys on this site like NarrowJ have reported having way worse results doing straight cold approach. I read NarrowJ says now he mostly just meets girls in day to day life and ends up sleeping with them. Finding a cute girl sitting next to you in the waiting room of an auto shop, sparking up some fun sexual energy with her, then turning both of your wait into little date while you both have nothing else to do sounds a little more congruent with a high value man than walking aimlessly around the street in search of females.
But the magic of being able to think from this mindset is that you can take something that wouldn't be congruent with high value and make it so that it is, only if you have the perspective to do so.
HOW RAW COLD APPROACH LOOKS COMING FROM AN VERY SEXUALLY VALUABLE MAN
(this is given that you are on the streets and that and you don't have any convenient reason to talk to the girl, and you have to go in direct)
(and its also assumed that your all of your fundamentals are on point and portray that you are a sexually high value man... now its just time to do the same with your actions)
-You see the girl and casually walk up behind her (I feel getting her attention with touch while she isn't looking is a bit bolder... as long as your not in a dangerous city where people are on edge) and you gently put your hand on her shoulder or the side of her arm.
(now your body language and tone of voice is important here, you should deliver this with absolutely no eagerness and like its the most casual thing in the world. The same way you order your morning coffee the thousandth time, but just with a bit more warmth and more of a personal vibe)
-wait for her to turn around and make full eye contact with you, when you have her full attention..
“Hey, (pleasant look but staying cool) I don't usually talk to random girls on the street... (slight pause, and kick up the tension just a bit) but its rare that I see a girl who's exactly my type”
and just stand there totally chill and hold eye contact until she reacts
-once you start the conversation mention early on that you were on your way somewhere you have to be and only have like 5 minutes even if its a lie (this will negate all the bad parts about raw cold approach and make her feel more comfortable because she doesn't have to worry about how long this will hold her up or if she will have to deal with losing you if it gets awkward)
Then remember, think what an extremely valuable man would do. What should be going on in your head? (she impressed me with her looks, but does her personality hold up too?... guess we'll see. If this little conversation goes well and she continues to impress and its fun and natural then ill convert on it)
“It would be cool (not amazing) if we (not “I would like to”) finished this conversation over some xyz sometime..... (her response) cool whats your number blah blah blah
If your all of your fundamentals are on point and she finds you physically attractive, she will be very turned on by this. You basically just told her through subtext that she was one of the girls special enough to make the cut for you, without looking like a douche or an arrogant prick, just confident.
Just always be thinking from the frame of mind, "if I was an extremely valuable man who all the hottest women wanted really bad (and I lay tons of them) how I would I actually act/react in this situation.?"
Its not a quick fix for everything as there are other parts to seduction. But you will be on the mark so much more with your actions, giving the right subtext and keeping her perception of you very positive.