How to engage with her when she's on vacation?

[falcodren71]

A couple weeks ago, I was at a country bar and dancing with some women. One of the women came up to me afterwards and asked me for my phone number. I went on a date her last week and asked her out again, but she claimed to be busy. She will be leaving for vacation for 2 weeks.

I told her to add me on snapchat so she could send me some pictures on her vacation. She did add me and also added me to her private story, but didn't respond to the text. Two days after she added me, she apologized for her silence and said she couldn't do anything until she came back.

I've been dating other women in the meantime to try to keep my mind off her, but apparently it's not working to well. :/

I am unsure about three things:

1) If she doesn't keep in touch during her vacation, should I reach out to her? If so, how often over the two weeks.

2) Do you think she is actually interested or trying to sort of fade out of conversation like many women do?

3) When she gets back, should I ask her out again right away, or wait a while?

Conversation:

https://imgur.com/a/gFXXCLO

 

[gameboy]

Don't chase her, especially not during her vacation

 

[DarkJedi]

Unfortunately looks like she's politely blowing you off. The texts seem low-investment from her side, and from your side it seems like you're trying for too much rapport.

In my experience, after a first date, if things go well, her responses to you will get warmer and she'll make it easy for you to meet her again. If she didn't like the first date, the opposite happens.

She probably was hoping you'd make a move on the first date and got disappointed.

No point trying to reach her while she's on vacation. When she's back, if you really want to, send a low-investment text to gauge where she's at.

 

[falcodren71]

Unfortunately looks like she's politely blowing you off. The texts seem low-investment from her side, and from your side it seems like you're trying for too much rapport.

In my experience, after a first date, if things go well, her responses to you will get warmer and she'll make it easy for you to meet her again. If she didn't like the first date, the opposite happens.

She probably was hoping you'd make a move on the first date and got disappointed.

No point trying to reach her while she's on vacation. When she's back, if you really want to, send a low-investment text to gauge where she's at.

Thanks for your thoughts. I was going to make a move on her, but she had a competition the next day and had to get up at 5am, so we weren't able to go for the walk around the park after dinner.

I am getting the same feeling that you're getting. However, it's sort of weird that she added me to her private snapchat story and responded apologizing about the silence.

In the future, would you suggest trying for less rapport or any other changes? For example my text of "I had a feeling you would!" seems a little overboard.

 

[Kaida]

I had a feeling you would!" seems a little overboard.

I think that was fine, added some energy to the conversation. I probably would have replaced the exclamation mark with a wink though

The main problem here is how you asked for the date. “Free to come dancing with me tomorrow?” Is a low odds ask you popped slightly too early. You didnt get her involved in the process at all.

You chose the time, the day, and the activity without checking if she was free or if she even likes dancing

She could have actual plans that she’s not willing to cancel for a guy she kinda-sorta likes. And even if she really likes you that’s gonna be a stretch.

The best you’ll get in that situation will be a “No, but can we do another day?” which is still bad because it’s building negative compliance momentum, which it more likely she says no the next time too.

I would have poked around for her willingness to go out after she told u when she was leaving. Something like “sounds like some time to chill with a handsome man ” and leave it hanging there to see how she responds.

After that text, if she were to reject me, it wouldnt be as bad as if I asked her to dance because it wasn’t as direct.

 

[falcodren71]

I think that was fine, added some energy to the conversation. I probably would have replaced the exclamation mark with a wink though

The main problem here is how you asked for the date. “Free to come dancing with me tomorrow?” Is a low odds ask you popped slightly too early. You didnt get her involved in the process at all.

You chose the time, the day, and the activity without checking if she was free or if she even likes dancing

She could have actual plans that she’s not willing to cancel for a guy she kinda-sorta likes. And even if she really likes you that’s gonna be a stretch.

The best you’ll get in that situation will be a “No, but can we do another day?” which is still bad because it’s building negative compliance momentum, which it more likely she says no the next time too.

I would have poked around for her willingness to go out after she told u when she was leaving. Something like “sounds like some time to chill with a handsome man ” and leave it hanging there to see how she responds.

After that text, if she were to reject me, it wouldnt be as bad as if I asked her to dance because it wasn’t as direct.

Ok, I see what you mean. I try to keep texting date logistics focused, especially since I don't like it.

In your guess, would you think she's blowing me off or is just truly busy? This case is a little hard for me because she did add me to snapchat and her private story, apologized for not texting for two days, and (essentially) said that she would have time when she got back from her trip.

I'm weighing the options of withdrawing attention and just not texting her at all during her trip, or sending like one text asking what the most fun thing she got up to so far has been. I did have a situation like this before and I kept in a little bit of touch during their trip and it resulted in more dates.

 

[Will_V]

A couple weeks ago, I was at a country bar and dancing with some women. One of the women came up to me afterwards and asked me for my phone number. I went on a date her last week and asked her out again, but she claimed to be busy. She will be leaving for vacation for 2 weeks.

I told her to add me on snapchat so she could send me some pictures on her vacation. She did add me and also added me to her private story, but didn't respond to the text. Two days after she added me, she apologized for her silence and said she couldn't do anything until she came back.

I've been dating other women in the meantime to try to keep my mind off her, but apparently it's not working to well. :/

I am unsure about three things:

1) If she doesn't keep in touch during her vacation, should I reach out to her? If so, how often over the two weeks.

2) Do you think she is actually interested or trying to sort of fade out of conversation like many women do?

3) When she gets back, should I ask her out again right away, or wait a while?

Conversation:

https://imgur.com/a/gFXXCLO

Too many questions in a row on text is usually bad. Questions in general are slightly needy unless they are accompanied by plenty of comments and statements. Some pickup guys even suggest leaving out question marks in text, which I usually do these days as well as I've yet to hear of a girl ghosting on a dude for lacking proper grammar.

Think of questions as leaning forward and statements as leaning back. So the texting is like an interaction with you leaning way forward and her leaning way back.

When looking for compliance I always try to find a way to make it a non-question without being pushy. Starting off with 'We should ..' 'Let's ..' etc and using implying statements rather than flat out propositions with question marks. E.g. 'Hey I know a really nice cafe over at XYZ, they have A and B and C.' If she doesn't take that sort of prompt you aren't going to get a better response by asking directly, and it's a lot easier to adjust if it doesn't land.

Overall this texting is lacking any real rapport. The blue ribbon comment was good, but it's always bad to hit her with a logistics/proposal question right after her first response. It comes off like an 'aha now you're online I'm going to seal the deal!' type of vibe. Build up a bit of banter first, use some teasing/innuendo, give her a little bit of butterflies and giggles before going for another date.

As Kaida said too, going for the hard close out of nowhere is not a good idea.

 

[falcodren71]

Too many questions in a row on text is usually bad. Questions in general are slightly needy unless they are accompanied by plenty of comments and statements. Some pickup guys even suggest leaving out question marks in text, which I usually do these days as well as I've yet to hear of a girl ghosting on a dude for lacking proper grammar.

Think of questions as leaning forward and statements as leaning back. So the texting is like an interaction with you leaning way forward and her leaning way back.

When looking for compliance I always try to find a way to make it a non-question without being pushy. Starting off with 'We should ..' 'Let's ..' etc and using implying statements rather than flat out propositions with question marks. E.g. 'Hey I know a really nice cafe over at XYZ, they have A and B and C.' If she doesn't take that sort of prompt you aren't going to get a better response by asking directly, and it's a lot easier to adjust if it doesn't land.

Overall this texting is lacking any real rapport. The blue ribbon comment was good, but it's always bad to hit her with a logistics/proposal question right after her first response. It comes off like an 'aha now you're online I'm going to seal the deal!' type of vibe. Build up a bit of banter first, use some teasing/innuendo, give her a little bit of butterflies and giggles before going for another date.

As Kaida said too, going for the hard close out of nowhere is not a good idea.

This is some truly great advice! I now see how I've probably messed up with previous texting with other women too. I guess I have a tendancy to overboard with keeping it logistics focused. Going forward with this girl, I'm guessing the best approach would be to definitely lean back and not message for a a decent while during her vacation and make a casual, non-asking statement about going out again once she's back?

 

[Will_V]

This is some truly great advice! I now see how I've probably messed up with previous texting with other women too. I guess I have a tendancy to overboard with keeping it logistics focused. Going forward with this girl, I'm guessing the best approach would be to definitely lean back and not message for a a decent while during her vacation and make a casual, non-asking statement about going out again once she's back?

First of all you don't want to leave things hanging on her refusal. Not only she might think you're butthurt but when she comes back the first thing she's going to do is read the previous messages, see that it ended on a 'no' and that will prime her to think there was a good reason for things not going forward.

I'd send a message like 'Sure thing we'll catch up after your trip then when we're both free .. have fun and eat a lot of frankfurts haha'

Now that's the sort of message when she reads again she might think 'oh it didn't happen because we were both busy. He seems chill, let's go out again'.

Then when she gets back just hit her up again with some banter, Chase has a good formula in the text guide of giving a bit of funny/interesting/intriguing information about yourself before asking something about her, it's a good way of avoiding becoming a telemarketer.

After building it back up then just soft close the date, schedule, and done.

Skills gives some great advice on texting in here too: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/simple-basic-texting-guide.23663/

 

[falcodren71]

First of all you don't want to leave things hanging on her refusal. Not only she might think you're butthurt but when she comes back the first thing she's going to do is read the previous messages, see that it ended on a 'no' and that will prime her to think there was a good reason for things not going forward.

I'd send a message like 'Sure thing we'll catch up after your trip then when we're both free .. have fun and eat a lot of frankfurts haha'

Now that's the sort of message when she reads again she might think 'oh it didn't happen because we were both busy. He seems chill, let's go out again'.

Then when she gets back just hit her up again with some banter, Chase has a good formula in the text guide of giving a bit of funny/interesting/intriguing information about yourself before asking something about her, it's a good way of avoiding becoming a telemarketer.

After building it back up then just soft close the date, schedule, and done.

Skills gives some great advice on texting in here too: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/simple-basic-texting-guide.23663/

I had actually just finished reading that article when I saw that you responded. I wish I had read it long ago...

Also, it seems like you may have not seen the second image of the text conversation. The conversation actually ended with her texting out of the blue for not responding for a day and me telling her that she's fine and to send me some pictures of her little adventures. Does this change your advice at all? I was thinking about doing something like the "Resurrecting the Dead" approach in the article after she gets back.

Picture of the second half of the conversation in case it's not displaying properly:

https://imgur.com/a/t71yKcU

 

[Will_V]

I had actually just finished reading that article when I saw that you responded. I wish I had read it long ago...

Also, it seems like you may have not seen the second image of the text conversation. The conversation actually ended with her texting out of the blue for not responding for a day and me telling her that she's fine and to send me some pictures of her little adventures. Does this change your advice at all? I was thinking about doing something like the "Resurrecting the Dead" approach in the article after she gets back.

Picture of the second half of the conversation in case it's not displaying properly:

https://imgur.com/a/t71yKcU

Yeah I did miss the last part. That texting really has got to improve my man! It certainly didn't improve things, quite the opposite.

One of the golden rules of texting is do not keep investing/offering when she is refusing your frame/requests. It is the ultimate chasing, value-destroying, pussy-drying move. It is straight up rewarding her for not doing what you want her to do. Instead, you have to figure out what the obstacle is and find a way to address it before even thinking about trying to close again.

Here after her first refusal of the dancing, you offer Monday night right away which comes off very needy and desperate. Logically you probably thought 'oh she's busy that day let's try another day'. But you failed to see a bunch of things.

- Her reply is bland, polite, and doesn't make a counteroffer, i.e. she has already lost a lot of interest. That means it's likely that she's at least partly making up an excuse. You'd have to spark a bit of excitement and intrigue to make her even interested in meeting up.

- After a woman refuses you, even if she had no other choice for reasons outside her control, she loses a little respect for you. Just the way it is. Women respect guys who say X and X gets done, and lose respect for guys who say X and (who cares why) it doesn't get done. In this frame then, making another offer immediately (which is likely to get refused again) is a very bad move. That's why it's important to use prompts, suggestions and implications (soft closes) to test the waters first before making a direct request. Like 'what's your schedule looking like this week' as an example from the text article.

Her last text is a blanket refusal with corporate level politeness, and indicates she's just about lost all interest. Your reply did not help matters at all. 'You're fine' after her refusing everything you offered so far is too much taking care of her feelings, and comes off as weak. And the last statement about her sending you pictures is simply needy. What type of busy dude with shit to do, lands to seize and women to conquer is interested in random pictures from a tourist trip of a woman who's already politely rebuffed him multiple times?

What would have gone a lot better here (and works with some degree of success anytime you find yourself in a lost position with no good moves) is a sort of polite takeaway like 'oh cool guess we're both going to be pretty busy for a while, let's touch base again in a few weeks, have fun over there '. At least that gets a small amount of frame control back so she might have a little more respect for you if you get in touch later.

Frankly this one is pretty much done and it'd be best to just move on and meet some more women. You can try getting back in touch after her trip but it's very low odds.

 

[falcodren71]

Yeah I did miss the last part. That texting really has got to improve my man! It certainly didn't improve things, quite the opposite.

One of the golden rules of texting is do not keep investing/offering when she is refusing your frame/requests. It is the ultimate chasing, value-destroying, pussy-drying move. It is straight up rewarding her for not doing what you want her to do. Instead, you have to figure out what the obstacle is and find a way to address it before even thinking about trying to close again.

Here after her first refusal of the dancing, you offer Monday night right away which comes off very needy and desperate. Logically you probably thought 'oh she's busy that day let's try another day'. But you failed to see a bunch of things.

- Her reply is bland, polite, and doesn't make a counteroffer, i.e. she has already lost a lot of interest. That means it's likely that she's at least partly making up an excuse. You'd have to spark a bit of excitement and intrigue to make her even interested in meeting up.

- After a woman refuses you, even if she had no other choice for reasons outside her control, she loses a little respect for you. Just the way it is. Women respect guys who say X and X gets done, and lose respect for guys who say X and (who cares why) it doesn't get done. In this frame then, making another offer immediately (which is likely to get refused again) is a very bad move. That's why it's important to use prompts, suggestions and implications (soft closes) to test the waters first before making a direct request. Like 'what's your schedule looking like this week' as an example from the text article.

Her last text is a blanket refusal with corporate level politeness, and indicates she's just about lost all interest. Your reply did not help matters at all. 'You're fine' after her refusing everything you offered so far is too much taking care of her feelings, and comes off as weak. And the last statement about her sending you pictures is simply needy. What type of busy dude with shit to do, lands to seize and women to conquer is interested in random pictures from a tourist trip of a woman who's already politely rebuffed him multiple times?

What would have gone a lot better here (and works with some degree of success anytime you find yourself in a lost position with no good moves) is a sort of polite takeaway like 'oh cool guess we're both going to be pretty busy for a while, let's touch base again in a few weeks, have fun over there '. At least that gets a small amount of frame control back so she might have a little more respect for you if you get in touch later.

Frankly this one is pretty much done and it'd be best to just move on and meet some more women. You can try getting back in touch after her trip but it's very low odds.

Ok, not sure how I didn't see everything you pointed out. Things over text go wrong so fast for me. Definitely need to study those guides hard.

 

[Will_V]

@falcodren71 It's just one of those skills you gotta learn, always been the trickiest part of game for me. I'm at home with nonverbals and body language, texting not so much.

A couple of tips for texting in general. When you are about to send a message, write it out and then do something else for 5 minutes. Once the impulsive emotions fade out you'll see it in a clearer light. It doesn't work if you stare at it for 5 minutes you have to entirely unplug.

Secondly, read each message you are about to send and pretend it was from her to you. Again it works better after a wait. If it sounds cheerful, in control, and confident, it's probably good. If it reads like the sort of thing where if she sent it to you you'd smile, put the phone away and say 'I really have this girl pining for me!' it's time for draft two.

Lastly, pay attention to how you feel as you write it. If you feel needy and insecure about things, go and do something else and get her out of your mind before writing anything. When you write something confident and sure, you will feel that way inside, as the words will reflect it back to you.

Good luck!