Special Girl How to escalate sexually with a long-term friend

[throwaway567]

Hey all. This is a complicated one and I would really appreciate some advice. Long-story short, very attracted to a girl who has become a very good friend over many years and struggling to find the right way to authentically move things toward (/back to) physicality.

We met 6 years ago while traveling. Over just a couple hours, we ended up having a great meal, deep conversation, got drunk, hooked up. We maintained off-and-on contact, wherein she would mention how great a time she had with me and wanted to see me again. After about 7 months, I happened to be a short train ride away in a neighboring country she was visiting, so I went over to see her for a few days. This time that chemistry wasn’t exactly gone, but she did not want things to be physical. She brushed off our first encounter saying “we just hooked up” as if it didn't matter so much (she's not wrong in general). But when I tried to push a bit, she explained she had never been in a romantic relationship and recently had been suffering from depression. She opened up about her past and said she just struggles to get close to people, feels she is a bad person, and does not want to hurt people so always refrains from any form of intimacy, including close friendships with girls. We still had a wonderful time together, the flirtatious vibe was very much there, we kissed a bit twice when we got tipsy, but by the time I left I was thinking “okay this one has gone to the friendzone.”

We maintain contact, have a phone call every month or two, then after two years she flies out to visit me for a week. We have an amazing vacation together. She is still extremely flirtatious, sleeps in the same bed as me, cuddles, kisses me on the cheek/etc... Again we make out just one night when we are both drunk, but any time I ever try to escalate she pulls back and says she is just not comfortable, has a fear of relationships, that I am one of best people (if not the single best) person she has ever met and she is just afraid of letting things progress as she is afraid of getting intimate with anyone in general, but especially me, along with the usual friendzone stuff that she values me too much, etc.

One month ago, I travel to her part of the world for work but unfortunately do not have time to visit her. She says she doesn’t want to miss the opportunity so she takes a day’s journey on trains and buses to come to me, and stays for several weeks. Obviously I am busy so we do not spend a huge amount of time together, but when we are together it is the same as every time before. This time, it feels like we are a couple but just without the sex. Lots of fun, great conversation, deep connection, lighthearted, physical, flirtatious, but every time it comes to escalating she pulls back for the same reasons. I don’t know what it was, but this time it seemed clearer to me that she has some sort of avoidance issues that run very deep (it seems to me based in just general low self-esteem, or possibly some form of trauma from her past).

Yesterday she called me and opened up about how much she misses me, how much better life is when we are together, and said she is looking to try something new so asks if it would be okay if she flew out to see me, even floating the idea of staying for several months. I of course explain I am busy but she can crash a few days at my place as she finds her feet and that I will help introduce her to people and generally help her out if I can. These past months she has been sending me some of the kindest compliments I have ever received from anyone. It’s clear how much I mean to her and that she looks up to me.

This is someone I could see myself potentially having a wonderful relationship with. One thing I haven't said yet is that her intimacy issues and low-self image make no sense to me. She is really one of the most impressive people I have ever met in so many ways. I have been with a lot of women to know what is a good match for me and (while we haven’t tried dating, so I could be wrong) it is totally possible that this girl and I would be a great fit together. But I do not know how to gently push past whatever issues are preventing her from wanting to get physical so we can explore having a deeper (and sexual) relationship.

Is 'seduction' totally irrelevant in a situation like this? Do we just need to talk logically about where she is at and I should make the case for why we should just 'give it a try'? Or is there a certain approach I need to take to girls like her and situations like this?

Any thoughts or advice would really help me a lot! Thank you guys.

 

[Fuck This]

Logical does not have a place in affairs of the heart. You have to be willing to totally torpedo your friendship to build a romance.

Basically you have to tell her that Physical intimacy is central to the level of emotional connection you feel.

Give her a copy of the Five Love languages and read it yourself.

but more importantly understand that someone else's mental health is not your responsibility.
Are you being a white knight trying to save someone who doesn't feel she is worth it? These cases often devolve into codependent relationships.

 

[TomInHo]

Bro! I hate to break it to you, but you're not her friend

You're her male girlfriend, but lets see why this happened

We met 6 years ago while traveling. Over just a couple hours, we ended up having a great meal, deep conversation, got drunk, hooked up.

So far so good

We maintained off-and-on contact, wherein she would mention how great a time she had with me and wanted to see me again. After about 7 months, I happened to be a short train ride away in a neighboring country she was visiting, so I went over to see her for a few days.

Okay...

This time that chemistry wasn’t exactly gone, but she did not want things to be physical. She brushed off our first encounter saying “we just hooked up” as if it didn't matter so much (she's not wrong in general). But when I tried to push a bit, she explained she had never been in a romantic relationship and recently had been suffering from depression. She opened up about her past and said she just struggles to get close to people, feels she is a bad person, and does not want to hurt people so always refrains from any form of intimacy, including close friendships with girls. We still had a wonderful time together, the flirtatious vibe was very much there, we kissed a bit twice when we got tipsy, but by the time I left I was thinking “okay this one has gone to the friendzone.”

You weren't paying attention. She told you exactly what she needed to hookup again

She doesn't want a boyfriend, she wants someone to fuck with no emotional attachments. You could have banged if you reassured her that you're not trying to lock her down. Just enjoying her company with no expectations of anything

Plus she is also telling you she is mentally unstable and would not make a good potential girlfriend. You really need to listen and pace her reality because this girl sounds like someone you don't want to attach to in the first place

We maintain contact, have a phone call every month or two, then after two years she flies out to visit me for a week.

Why all this contact with some random girl you're not even fucking? Please make it make sense

We have an amazing vacation together. She is still extremely flirtatious, sleeps in the same bed as me, cuddles, kisses me on the cheek/etc... Again we make out just one night when we are both drunk, but any time I ever try to escalate she pulls back and says she is just not comfortable, has a fear of relationships, that I am one of best people (if not the single best) person she has ever met and she is just afraid of letting things progress as she is afraid of getting intimate with anyone in general, but especially me, along with the usual friendzone stuff that she values me too much, etc.

Blah blah blah

More damsel in distress talk. Who cares about all that crap?

She's using you for attention and you're not getting what you want. Why are you letting her mentally abuse you like this?

One month ago, I travel to her part of the world for work but unfortunately do not have time to visit her. She says she doesn’t want to miss the opportunity so she takes a day’s journey on trains and buses to come to me, and stays for several weeks. Obviously I am busy so we do not spend a huge amount of time together, but when we are together it is the same as every time before. This time, it feels like we are a couple but just without the sex. Lots of fun, great conversation, deep connection, lighthearted, physical, flirtatious, but every time it comes to escalating she pulls back for the same reasons. I don’t know what it was, but this time it seemed clearer to me that she has some sort of avoidance issues that run very deep (it seems to me based in just general low self-esteem, or possibly some form of trauma from her past).

Something feels very off.

She is treating you like a boyfriend but without the sex. This girl sounds damaged and something tells me she is fucking some other guy(s) that is not giving her the same emotional support as you

So she is doing the frankenstein BF spiel. Where she keeps one guy as an emotional tampon while the other dude is blowing her back out.

She's obviously using you and you're letting it happen

Yesterday she called me and opened up about how much she misses me, how much better life is when we are together, and said she is looking to try something new so asks if it would be okay if she flew out to see me, even floating the idea of staying for several months. I of course explain I am busy but she can crash a few days at my place as she finds her feet and that I will help introduce her to people and generally help her out if I can. These past months she has been sending me some of the kindest compliments I have ever received from anyone. It’s clear how much I mean to her and that she looks up to me.

She's stringing you along.

This is someone I could see myself potentially having a wonderful relationship with.

And that's exactly why this is happening. She doesn't want a relationship with you. At least not yet. So you should quit with all the relationship-y stuff

One thing I haven't said yet is that her intimacy issues and low-self image make no sense to me. She is really one of the most impressive people I have ever met in so many ways.

Girls with low self esteem want to be treated like crap. That's all they know

So when you treat them well they assume you are low value. Because why would someone like you think they are so great when deep down they feel like they are trash

This girl obviously has borderline personality disorder

I have been with a lot of women to know what is a good match for me and (while we haven’t tried dating, so I could be wrong) it is totally possible that this girl and I would be a great fit together. But I do not know how to gently push past whatever issues are preventing her from wanting to get physical so we can explore having a deeper (and sexual) relationship.

No. You are a horrible fit

She is fucked up but you only want her because she is a challenge. If you become a bit more challenging guess what's going to happen to how she views you sexually?

Is 'seduction' totally irrelevant in a situation like this? Do we just need to talk logically about where she is at and I should make the case for why we should just 'give it a try'? Or is there a certain approach I need to take to girls like her and situations like this?

Any thoughts or advice would really help me a lot! Thank you guys.

Girls like this are best kept at an arms length. Because when you treat them well they lose respect for you. Find someone else that is more sane and can give you the emotional and sexual intimacy you crave