Transitions  How to isolate in venue?

Don Giovanni

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Dec 12, 2019
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286
Hey guys,

I read @Chase article on the subject and I'm learning the whole process step by step from @Teevster articles. Or trying to learn :D

Here's how I go about it.

First I befriend the whole group, then I focus on her. Usually I don't have problems creating 'bubbles' with girls, I lean on some gambits to help me do that.

Then I start off building compliance ladders. Starting as innocent as holding a bit longer eye contact than needed, sometimes if the context is there I amp it up to kissing her on the cheek...

Then I try to get some excuses to move the girl (''wanna help me buying the drinks'', ''make me company when I go out for a smoke'', ''lets check if the rooftop is open tonight'', stuff like that) usually preceded with a gambit. All more or less good to this point.

I fail to keep my girls isolated most of the time though. They want to go back to their friends for example.

I realized lately how plausible deniability and proper frames play a huge part in this. She needs an excuse to not to trigger ASD or get her friends disapproval. You also want enough intrigue or a clear sexual frame before isolating, so she knows what's up.

I'm currently going out with the goal of ''ask her to move with you after delivering xy gambit/ talking to her for 15min''.

I'm intrigued to hear your process of isolating girls. Or pointing holes in my game as well.

Happy Friday to all,

Don Giovanni

P.S. This was a reply to @SunKing thread, but I later realized he was talking about a different topic. Therefore I opened a new thread, sorry for derailing man.
 

DoWhatWorks

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I fail to keep my girls isolated most of the time though. They want to go back to their friends for example.

This is very normal. In fact you should suggest to go back before she does so she sees you as a guy who "gets it"
I realized lately how plausible deniability and proper frames play a huge part in this. She needs an excuse to not to trigger ASD or get her friends disapproval. You also want enough intrigue or a clear sexual frame before isolating, so she knows what's up.

This should be easy if you've hit the following criteria:

1. You've won over the friends (this is as easy as talking to them, saying "how cool" their friend is and being chill/not overly sexual)
2. The girl is sexually available
3. The logistics are good

I've you've hit the above 3 I've literally had girls range from "Are you sure you want to go back with him?


Okay text me when you're on the way home later" to "GO WITH HIM, HE's COOL"

I'm intrigued to hear your process of isolating girls

My nightgame guide in my signature should have everything you need man
 

Don Giovanni

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@DoWhatWorks thank you for replying!

This is very normal. In fact you should suggest to go back before she does so she sees you as a guy who "gets it"
I do that when I sense this vibe instinctivelly.

I thought to keep her in isolation is a necessary part of the process (open - hook - isolate - escalate - extract) but maybe I’ve been looking at it too rigidly.

1. You've won over the friends (this is as easy as talking to them, saying "how cool" their friend is and being chill/not overly sexual)
2. The girl is sexually available
3. The logistics are good
You’re the man when it comes to checklists and this is again a good checklist!

When I think about it I had the first 2 down yesterday, but the third fucked me up (i could’ve pulled 90% but after taking a shot together my girl got sick and wanted to go home because of it… she wasn’t even drunk!).

My nightgame guide in my signature should have everything you need man
Went through it a couple times, good guide.
 

DoWhatWorks

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I do that when I sense this vibe instinctivelly

Nice, I prefer to always do it because it makes you stand out. Most girls go to clubs to have fun, spend time with their friends and potentially meet a guy.

By you suggesting to go back first she sees that you’ll allow her to get all 3 aims.


I thought to keep her in isolation is a necessary part of the process (open - hook - isolate - escalate - extract) but maybe I’ve been looking at it too rigidly.

Yep think your rigid assessment is right. Just see her following you around the club as part of the escalation process. You’re compliance stacking so that her coming home with you is a natural small next step and not a random big leap.
You’re the man when it comes to checklists and this is again a good checklist!

Haha thanks man. Hadn’t even noticed that about myself but I do love a checklist lol.

(i could’ve pulled 90% but after taking a shot together my girl got sick and wanted to go home because of it… she wasn’t even drunk!).

Happens to the best of us bro! To help you in the future I get girls to drink out of my straw these days vs having a shot. Builds more intimacy
 

weekendwarrior

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I've had similar experiences to @Don Giovanni with isolation and I don't want to derail this discussion, however @DoWhatWorks I've had the three key points you've listed, the chick was sexually available, the logistics were manageable, I won over her friends, they were telling her to go with me and I still couldn't get her away.

It's happened a few times with a few different chicks, they say they can't leave their friends but their friends are telling them to go with me (a few times I've heard them tell the chick she can't do better). The best I've got is the chicks decided to move away from her friends with me while I arrange a date and number close but I can't get them to leave with me.

I've tried staying in set and letting them know I'm going to go, neither has helped. Any tips or advice? Thanks guys!

Warrior
 

DoWhatWorks

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I've had similar experiences to @Don Giovanni with isolation and I don't want to derail this discussion, however @DoWhatWorks I've had the three key points you've listed, the chick was sexually available, the logistics were manageable, I won over her friends, they were telling her to go with me and I still couldn't get her away.

It's happened a few times with a few different chicks, they say they can't leave their friends but their friends are telling them to go with me (a few times I've heard them tell the chick she can't do better). The best I've got is the chicks decided to move away from her friends with me while I arrange a date and number close but I can't get them to leave with me.

I've tried staying in set and letting them know I'm going to go, neither has helped. Any tips or advice? Thanks guys!

Warrior

This is just the wildcards of night game!

Don’t be disheartened. Number close and follow up. Also make it clear on the night that you’ve had fun & you’ll contact her to arrange drinks.

Similar thing happened to me, I number closed and she text me first. Fast forward our first date was her coming straight over to mine. LR here

Also as your fundamentals get better there’ll be more girls who “use you” for an ego boost.

They’ll push to kiss you, grind up on you etc but have no intentions with sleeping with you. Just want to prove to themselves & their friends that they can get a bag a guy at that level.
 

West_Indian_Archie

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375
Hey guys,

I read @Chase article on the subject and I'm learning the whole process step by step from @Teevster articles. Or trying to learn :D

Here's how I go about it.

First I befriend the whole group, then I focus on her. Usually I don't have problems creating 'bubbles' with girls, I lean on some gambits to help me do that.

Then I start off building compliance ladders. Starting as innocent as holding a bit longer eye contact than needed, sometimes if the context is there I amp it up to kissing her on the cheek...

Then I try to get some excuses to move the girl (''wanna help me buying the drinks'', ''make me company when I go out for a smoke'', ''lets check if the rooftop is open tonight'', stuff like that) usually preceded with a gambit. All more or less good to this point.

I fail to keep my girls isolated most of the time though. They want to go back to their friends for example.

I realized lately how plausible deniability and proper frames play a huge part in this. She needs an excuse to not to trigger ASD or get her friends disapproval. You also want enough intrigue or a clear sexual frame before isolating, so she knows what's up.

I'm currently going out with the goal of ''ask her to move with you after delivering xy gambit/ talking to her for 15min''.

I'm intrigued to hear your process of isolating girls. Or pointing holes in my game as well.

Happy Friday to all,

Don Giovanni

P.S. This was a reply to @SunKing thread, but I later realized he was talking about a different topic. Therefore I opened a new thread, sorry for derailing man.

There are some variables here that make this a harder problem to solve
  1. You
  2. Your game
  3. The Group
  4. The Venue
  5. Her
Variable 1 - You - Do you look good? Have you been working out? Dressed well? Clothes Fit? Good breath? Smell Nice? - Most of the time you can't do anything about this in the moment. But all of us, self included, need to increase our external looks to make it easier for the girl to make the right decision.

This may or may not be the problem, but some chicks put up hard lines when it comes to letting themselves be attracted to random guys in view of their friends. She'll happily slob your knob if NO ONE KNOWS, but group approaches add in a social dynamic. (which raises the practical pua paradox of girls usually being easier to pull when they're in a group versus solo...I digress)

Variable 2 - Your Game - Sounds like your game is solid, or your understanding is solid. On a technical level, you might just need to run a few more investment/compliance loops to amp up the attraction. More attraction can make it easier to isolate. But too much instant attraction might trigger ASD.

Remember it's Pick Up Artistry, not Pick Up Science. More cooking rather than baking. The same sort of uncertainty is present with advertising, sales, persuasion, teaching, etc. Improving your process, tools, and understanding nets more success, but you'll never be able to pull any chick any time. (even though that's the ultimate though unreachable goal)

Using the typical excuses to isolate (smoke break, buy drinks, roof top/outside) should work to isolate.
So if they're not leaving the group to be with you in the first place, that's a problem with attraction, and possibly one of trust.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what seems to be happening is that the value proposition of hanging out with you for more than a moment on the solo versus hanging out with her friends (who are just staring at their phones and gossiping) is the issue.

You can pull her off the group, but you can't make her stay long enough to work more of your magic.

She'll literally go help you with drinks for her and crew, but won't spend 5-20 minutes sipping a cocktail with you.

Something about the encounter is off.
  1. Either her giving you compliance, her investing, and all of that is her playing the game to have fun - but w/o the crew - she's bored - and she needs constant novelty to stay engaged.
  2. She's intimidated by you - She's not worthy of you, which means that you're trying to fuck and forget.
  3. She's scared of you - not trustworthy. Too good to be true. She's an avid listener to Serial Killer Podcasts

1) The scatter brained party girl - You need to have actual hard drugs, or be as exciting as drugs. I find that staying in set, rather than early isolation is much more useful for getting these chicks. But to be honest, if you're more of a livewire than she is, she's gonna chase you (and you'll be bored by her). Cause party girls chase the bright shiny ball.

2) The very low self esteem girl - If you improve her self esteem, she'll think she's above you. ASK ME HOW I KNOW!

IME, I'm more likely to cut a chick like this, rather than try to change her mood (and change her mind). Plenty of pretty girls, and lots of not so pretty ones, have these issues. And the juice is not worth the squeeze. Feminists (mis)use this term, emotional labor. That's what this is. These girls are the ones I consider to be high maintenance. Always needing some sort of a external boost to get her in a good mood.

IMO, one Emo Chick can be readily replaced with Another.

That said a cutting cold read can often wake her up and get her to be feisty.

At which point you point out that she's not introverted or whatever, but she's actually being selfish for not sharing herself with others while everyone shares with her. (read facebook/twitter/tiktok pop psychology and relationship advice so you can drop "truth bombs" on the unsuspecting. Doesn't ever need to be true, it just needs to fit the meta-narrative of society or her inner dialogue)

I avoid these chicks, but you might not know what she's like in the group context.

3) She doesn't trust you - All sorts of things can trigger this, but if you're compliance ladder ends with YOU kissing HER - that's a major faux pas imo. It should be HER kissing YOU. You are the prize, not her. I'm gonna assume the compliance ladder is not the actual problem.

My adapted model adapted from the typical linear model - attract - comfort - seduce. Rather than them being strict phases, early, middle, and end game have a mix of all 3, with attraction being heaviest at the beginning but trust and seduction still peppered in. And in the trust stage, attraction falls back but is still there, with light seduction. And during the end game, seduction is high, attraction is very low, but trust is heavy still.

IMO the key to the lack of isolation is trust, not attraction/value or seduction/heat. I gotta shout out YaReally for this, but mixing "trust boosters" helps a girl be okay with isolation. (Trust also majorly helps with getting out of the venue)

Can she trust you to be alone with her? (ASD is her not trusting herself to be with you)

Trust Boosters
  • Trustworthy and attractive friends at the venue (so some social proof and some sexual pre-selection)
  • Staff knows you
  • Interactions with strangers and getting their respect
  • Handling male competition
  • Handling female haters within her social group
  • Touch and go kino - rather than grab her hand and be clingy, touch for emphasis, touch to get her attention, but quickly pull it back.
  • Eye contact
  • Active listening
  • proper social/facial reactions to things she says and does
  • etc
So while you're running your group game, start mixing these into your attraction bits. Merge Forward - introduce them to new people/Merge Backwards - introduce them to old people - is real useful for this.

Variable 3 - The Group

There are always overt and covert dynamics in a girl's social group.

The girl of interest might be
  1. The Leader
  2. The Heart
  3. The Enforcer
  4. The Treasure
Keep in mind, there's a lot of undercover communication among the females in the set. You may or may not notice it. But that means that any given chick is getting instructions/approval on whether she can leave or not.

The leader of the group - the "alpha" means isolation from the group is a problem for the rest of the group. Sometimes making the cold read that she's the Beyonce of their Destiny's Child - can expose the dynamic - and since no one wants to be thought of as co-dependent, they'll let her leave with you.

The Heart - some groups have this, some done. But she's the emotional heart of the group. Consider her the weakest link, but she gets say in the group via her vulnerability. Passive control because she's being a bitch.

The Enforcer - she's the chick that interrogates and enforces the rules. She might look like the alpha, but often times her only job is to be the pitbull. She might be hot though. This might also be something more common in the urban/black/hip hop clubs that I have gone to. Handling her is really about getting the last word that leaves her mouth agape. She can take care of herself, and doesn't need group approval.

The Treasure - Usually this is the hottest girl in the group, and she's the one that gets approached the most. Even with 4 hotties, one of them is hotter than the rest. The chicks she rolls with are usually a problem, because she's passive, but like the leader, she's thoughtful.

There are other archetypes, and girls will change roles or have a mix. But the key for the PUA is to understand how the girl's own personality, her own desires, conflict with the group's roles and personalities.

The leader and enforcer can be pulled off the group, because they are active.
You make it easier with merge set.
You make it easier with telling them you're gonna borrower their friend for a minute (and stay in view).
I'll often say to them, "Why you wanna hear my game and block your girl's blessings?" - Giving them a preview of something hilarious makes it easy.

The heart and the treasure have to choose you, because they are passive.

Which usually means staying in set for a fair amount of time, and letting the chick sidle up to you, and make her choice known.

Variable 4 - The Venue

Some venues are easy to pull chicks off of you than others. But isolation (getting some privacy is how I phrase it), isn't always good.

Raves/Megaclubs - easy to pull, but she will be afraid of literally not finding her friends.

Speakeasies/Small Bars/Lounges - you'll stay in view.

Interventionist Staff - Concerned bartenders, waitresses, and bouncers will keep an eye on you and the females if you don't know what your'e doing.

Variable 5 - Her

Assuming the chick is feeling you, You just don't know what's going on with the chick other than nonverbal signs of attraction

I can run textbook game, pull the chick off her gaggle, start my rap, and she wants to stay, doesn't need to go back to her group (her girls might push her on me), but something in her isn't on point.

Out of a relationship. Hiding deep insecurity. Ovulating. On her period. On drugs. Tipsy. Pissed at her boyfriend. Afraid of falling in love.

If I have enough time, I try to "crack her open" and get to that ushy gushy emotional core, maybe something can pop off.

If you're in the bar/club scene, you'll probably see that chick again, reinitiate and then hook up. On the debrief, she'll tell what was wrong before, but most of the time, you'll never know.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

WIA
 

Don Giovanni

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@West_Indian_Archie thank you for the comprehensive reply!

Variable 1 - You
I like to think I have the basics down, I get occasional compliments on my style, hair, shoes, whatever. Of course you can always look better and should always work on it.

Variable 2 - Your Game
On a technical level, you might just need to run a few more investment/compliance loops to amp up the attraction.
As I said , I rely on gambits to pull this off. I may start talking about a girls point of wiev in nightlife, most guys being creepy/ awkward and contrast myself from them. Or how most people just drift through life but she looks like the kind of person who knows what she wants and is open minded at the same time. Stack a few cold reads and teases while doing so. On high points I do small compliance asks.

Any suggestions? I was thinking I might add intrigue to the mix, maybe open loops…
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what seems to be happening is that the value proposition of hanging out with you for more than a moment on the solo versus hanging out with her friends (who are just staring at their phones and gossiping) is the issue.
Yes.

  1. Either her giving you compliance, her investing, and all of that is her playing the game to have fun - but w/o the crew - she's bored - and she needs constant novelty to stay engaged.
  2. She's intimidated by you - She's not worthy of you, which means that you're trying to fuck and forget.
  3. She's scared of you - not trustworthy. Too good to be true. She's an avid listener to Serial Killer Podcasts

I’m not sure exactly which one of these might be. I would assume a mix of not trustworthy enough and not exciting enough. Depends on situation really… But again, not 100% sure which one is it.

but if you're compliance ladder ends with YOU kissing HER - that's a major faux pas imo
I agree, I pull this one off when I’m feeling on fire. But even then it would be better to skip it, I agree.

My adapted model adapted from the typical linear model - attract - comfort - seduce. Rather than them being strict phases, early, middle, and end game have a mix of all 3, with attraction being heaviest at the beginning but trust and seduction still peppered in.
I see more and more how my understanding of game is too linear; I guess it’s linear and it’s not at the same time. I will keep this in mind.

Trust Boosters
Thank you for this list! Very useful, I will mix some of these in more consciously. I saw effects of some of these before (like knowing the staff, active listening or getting good feedback from strangers) but could also work on others (dealing with bitchy friends is my weak spot for example).

Variable 3 - The Group
This may be funny, but I haven’t put a lot of thought into this before.

Keep in mind, there's a lot of undercover communication among the females in the set.
Makes sense.

since no one wants to be thought of as co-dependent, they'll let her leave with you.
Nice.

But the key for the PUA is to understand how the girl's own personality, her own desires, conflict with the group's roles and personalities.
Agree. I assume this also comes with experience, seeing archetypes in practice. Some of the ones you listed click with some scenarios from my past, the Heart or the Treasure for example…

Which usually means staying in set for a fair amount of time, and letting the chick sidle up to you, and make her choice known.
Ok, got it.

Variable 4 - The Venue
But isolation (getting some privacy is how I phrase it), isn't always good.
Or if it isn’t possible for exaple, then just proceed building enough trust and attraction, be conservative with kino and then go for the pull when you think enough compliance is build; all of this while being in the group?

This is a big question for me I realize now.

I always thought you need to have some physicality going before the pull. This is risky in front of the group. Therefore I don’t know when is the time or how much (not enough/ too much) am I stimulating her.

I rely on gambits lately for this, talking about sex, but I need some time and experience so I will be able to see and recognise when the girl is ready as opposed to just seeing it with being physical.

Variable 5 - Her
Can’t bring her cat that passed away yesterday back to life. I just don’t bother with this one so far, to many things that aren’t in my control.

That's my 2 cents anyway.
Appreciate it.
 

West_Indian_Archie

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I always thought you need to have some physicality going before the pull.

My experience is that you need 2 things along these lines before the pull

Breaking the touch barrier. My idea with breaking the touch barrier is that the first time you put your paws on a chick isn't back at your place. I think there are articles on what areas to touch on her body, and keep moving up the ladder.

I prefer inadvertent touches, rather than obviously romantic ones to start.

So if you're in the early attraction/build energy stage - you can play all those childhood games - slaps, thumb wrestling, pinky swears, fist bumps, etc.

If you're just chatting "guy style" - that is shoulder to shoulder, as opposed to facing each other - a nudge with your elbow to her elbow plus a point and "see that dude/chick/couple/thing over there".

You can then start to kick in the romantic touches with the flirting, or dancing - but touch does 2 things. Trust and Passion (Physical).

So the touch and go stuff builds trust, "this guy is not gonna be physically all over me to the point where I'm grossed out/annoyed or people will see."

Passion

In terms of passion, warm hands, right parts of her body, right time, right atmosphere - that builds heat. The cold can make a woman's nipples hard. And hitting the inner thigh area can bring more blood to her nether regions. There are other physiological things that can get the body ready for sex. Accompany that with the right context and behavior, and she'll just go with it.

Do you need to kiss? Do you need to make out? Before heading back to your spot?

That's a personal decision. That's a style decision. A kiss/make out/hand job/finger bang can definitely speed up the sex time table. And it can horribly backfire.

Personally I like to build up as much plausibly deniable heat as possible, until we get back to my spot. So I tend not to release the sexual tension, until I'm in a place where sex can actually happen.

But guys do the exact opposite all the time and succeed. There are a million ways to skin a cat.

WIA
 

Don Giovanni

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Do you need to kiss? Do you need to make out? Before heading back to your spot?

That's a personal decision. That's a style decision. A kiss/make out/hand job/finger bang can definitely speed up the sex time table. And it can horribly backfire.

Personally I like to build up as much plausibly deniable heat as possible, until we get back to my spot. So I tend not to release the sexual tension, until I'm in a place where sex can actually happen.

But guys do the exact opposite all the time and succeed. There are a million ways to skin a cat.
Again makes sense, thanks!
 

mist

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Check these out

1. https://www.girlschase.com/content/tactics-tuesdays-resistant-girls-use-parting-shot

2. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-be-persistent-girls-without-looking-desperate

3. https://www.girlschase.com/content/persist-your-insistence

4. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-be-persistent-girls-two-strategies

5. https://www.girlschase.com/content/tactics-tuesdays-screening-girls-same-day-lays

As always getting logistics and a feel for the group she's with if she's with one helps.

Group dynamics require finesse though. Props for reaching this sticking point. I was very hurt New Years when I ran into it haha. Almost broke my heart :')
 

Don Giovanni

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Thanks @Mist22 I’ll give them a refresher!

I was thinking, I’ll also make sure to update this thread when I get some consistent progress with isolation infield…
 
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