How To Sidestep Confrontation With Girls During Courtship?

[Big Daddy]

We've all been there. Talking to a cool girl, then she reveals that she's a [insert extremely annoying thing for you e.g. feminist, leftist, etc].

I generally could care less about what her political views are, and in any case, I stand a way better chance to change her mind once my dick has been inside her. Little to gain and a lot to lose by trying to convince her of anything during the courtship phase. However, I think I've been doing it sub-optimally because some things bug the shit out of me:

• 1. I feel like a little bitch "suppressing" my opinion just to fuck a girl; we talk a lot here about not being "yes-men" just to please a girl and I wonder if they'd respect me more if I dared to disagree with them. I'd never handicap myself if it's detrimental, but I'm wonder if I have it balanced correctly.
  2. If I want to see her for longer than a fuck and eventually I bring up a different point of view, I don't want her to feel like I "changed" my views to fuck her

Today I was talking to a girl I have a lot in common with, but we are completely opposite in the political spectrum and I knew that before she ever brought it up. But then she said she hates being around XYZ group of friends, because they're all Trump supporters. I didn't want a confrontation, so I hesitated a little bit:

- Me: ... 'cause you don't like him? (it wasn't as accusatory as it sounds here... just got me off-guard)
- Her: (little hesitant too) yeah, I'm against violence bla bla

I mean, she was a little surprised that I didn't necessarily agreed with her as I didn't start firing shit at him right away like a leftist would do (most people take me as a leftist... long hair). I continued conversation normally and she even let in the air the possibility of us hanging out later this week, but still... it was awkward.

Some of my takes are really Hector-ish: I make dark humor jokes, I don't give a fuck about how people feel sometimes and I can be loud/unapologetic. My guy friends love it, they joke about it all the time and I'm known for it. It's not as popular with the girls, though... and I love me some cute girls. I tend to be gentler with them, but then again, I have never been in a LTR and have it pass the test of time.

Will I have to get rid of this part of my personality? How to deal with this?

PS - I could swear I've read an article by Chase on the subject that I can't find right now; maybe it was just a brief mention inside an article of another topic. If you can link it here, it'd be awesome, but I wanted to discuss the subject regardless.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

I just recently sent two very cute girls who liked me into auto-rejection not an hour ago haha. They knew wat I did for a living so were immediately test-y with me. Very attracted, too. One girl would stare at me for like 4 minutes straight. Not exaggerating.

Usually, these days, I'm much nicer, but today I guess I was hungover or something but the girls started to go into auto-rejection. Towards the end, the girl, who previously was liking the music, said, "Could you change the music?"

I tell her, "Uh, sure."

She says,

"Thanks. We will leave soon and I want to hear something else, too."

Attitude.

I ask her, "What would you like to listen to?"

"I don't know."

I laugh. "That's...very helpful. Thankyou" and smile. Everyone laughs.

She gets pissed.

I turn it onto "Cut Her Off" by K-Camp. The song is about auto-rejecting girl from your life because they're acting up.

They get ready to leave 2 minutes into the song while laughing at me dancing.

They don't even give a hug goodbye.

I got the one girl's Insta and she made some very direct comments my way before the other's showed up. Maybe something will happen.

It was always going better when I was sweet. Their ice melted. But a few times their shit-tests or my cockery got the better of me and I got sassy back.

Just keep calling her sweet, giving compliments, and letting her shit-tests turn into flowers. Find it all...cute and fun.

Silly.

Hector

 

[Franco]

BD,

I agree with Hector on this. And you also answered your own question: you stand a way better chance of changing her views once your dick has been inside her.

I actually find it fun to laugh along with a girl when she's spouting views that I don't agree with. I won't necessarily nod or agree, but I just laugh (because usually they say it in a very passionate way, and it's high value to find it funny when someone gets way too passionate about something mundane and irrelevant. It's almost as if you're sub-communicating that you can tell that she cares about the topic more than she should).

Then, of course, after you fuck her a few times, the fun part comes: the next time she brings it up, you (gently) challenge her on the notion and provide some superb counterarguments. Watch her get a bit flustered but then cuddle up into you and say, "well, I suppose we can all have our different views on things" (or something to that degree). Once you plant that seed, you'll notice she'll start to ask your opinion on similar topics, and she'll appear much more open to your responses when she can tell that you have very insightful opinions without all of the passionate anger behind it -- you're just a chill dude who knows his shit, basically. This is also a good way to slowy shift a girl's Overton Window over time.

Make sure to read the Overton Window article if you haven't already -- it's another excellent one by Chase!

Cheers,

Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

@ Hec, Franco

Yeah, my default is being confrontational and making fun of people out of self-amusement, but I realized I never gained anything out of it, and that it's actually better to have the last laugh.

It's just that it can feel too deceptive at times i.e. contrast between close guy friends ("GUNS, FUCK YEAH!") vs girls I'm trying to fuck ("guns aren't that bad"). I wonder if I'm being too much of a nice guy/"being genuine" vs playing to win (avoiding the confrontation since "it serves no purposes to get her on my bed").

Or maybe I just don't know how to disagree in a genuine manner that moves things forward. I can't imagine a conversation where we both agree in everything being challenging for her... though probably there are better topics to playfully challenge her than the polemic ones... right?

BTW, I'm 100% confident that anyone that spends enough time around me will eventually change their opinion to match mine, so the biggest hurdle that I have is basically how to handle this until I get enough investment she'll stick around regardless.

Now Franco,

I can see how you get much more freedom to play with it after you get that much investment from her. I think my main problem is until I fuck her for the first couple of times. For example, how would you answer if a girl asked you directly whether you are pro-Trump or not (and you know for sure she's the opposite)?

• A non-answer is a little bit awkward to me. Feels like I'm not comfortable talking about it (which I'm kinda not, given the thread).
  
• Taking a side and arguing for it would be really dumb, though that's what I'd normally do 99.9% of the time with people I'm not trying to fuck.
  
• Tip-toeing on either side doesn't feel genuine or even effective. Often times I'll question her in an attempt to deep dive and diffuse attention from me, but the longer I stay in the topic, the greater the chances of her mirroring the question and #awkward. It's best to move to a more productive thread anyway.

Again, I'm not sure if I'm stuck into this 100% honest white knight frame or if there's actually a better way to handle this.

PS - I'll read that article for sure! Saved it for later as I'm on the run right now =)

 

[Franco]

BD,

For example, how would you answer if a girl asked you directly whether you are pro-Trump or not (and you know for sure she's the opposite)?

From my experience, if you were even asked this question at all, either one of two things occurred:

• 1. You lead her to it, which is unfortunately already a mistake that you made, and it might cost you.
  2. She's one of "those" girls who feels the need to check your political/religious/feminist/whatever values as a means to weed you out early.

In the case of (1), the answer here is simply "don't lead the girl into political topics." There's no easy way out of these situations, and you basically just have to gamble at this point. How you decide to gamble is up to you (although honesty is probably the best policy here so that you can be congruent with your views down the line, should you happen to make it into bed with her). But consider your odds of something happening with the girl greatly reduced if you stumbled upon one of the "forbidden" topics.

In the case of (2), well... I usually think to myself, "thanks for weeding me out early."

(EDIT: The moral of the story here being that seduction is not about "how do I get any girl in any situation?" but rather "how do I get the types of girls that I want?"

Sometimes a girl weeding you out early isn't such a bad thing!)

- Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

Yeah, I try to avoid anything remotely confrontational during courtship, and even when I learn about their beliefs I change subjects quickly if it's problematic.

In this case though, it came out of nowhere... she got excited and was showing me pictures on her Facebook from some past trip and saw a comment she didn't like. She then looked up and externalized her dissatisfaction, fully expecting me to agree with her. I was caught off-guard, and couldn't bring myself to do so, which in turn rang the red alert in her head.

I try to avoid them, but I didn't know how to handle unexpected confrontations once they were already there. I found good answers in this article, though: https://www.girlschase.com/content/tact ... -questions.

What's surprising is that I talked to her after that and she didn't realize we aren't close in the political spectrum. Probably because I did a good job deep diving and not talking and creating a connection with her to the extent that she thinks we the same beliefs regarding everything.

I loved that Overton article, by the way. Thanks for pointing it out, Franco!

EDIT: About that article, there's a bit where Chase is talking on how to disagree with people i.e. not attack them directly, but discredit the other party's sources of belief information, citing as an example that feminism has always been a strongly lesbian-led movement.

But in reality, isn't that always the case, even for the point you're trying to make? People who like guns will find reasons for guns to be allowed, etc.

Because I try to do exactly what he says when I'm trying to convince someone of something, but what happens in turn is that the other side just points out that my source may be biased as well ("well, you can tweak a research to produce any result you want!").

That argument largely discredits any kind of scientific research, and then we're only arguing anecdotes that obviously won't go anywhere since both parties can keep mirroring anecdotes ad infinitum. Thoughts?

 

[Franco]

BD,

In this case though, it came out of nowhere... she got excited and was showing me pictures on her Facebook from some past trip and saw a comment she didn't like. She then looked up and externalized her dissatisfaction, fully expecting me to agree with her. I was caught off-guard, and couldn't bring myself to do so, which in turn rang the red alert in her head.

I would have just looked at her and gave her a (unknowingly very ambiguous) "smirk" of sorts. If she decides to interpret that smirk as me agreeing with her and finding the whole thing silly, good! If she happens to question my smirk, well, then it just depends on how much I "care" about her I guess. If it's a girl I'm relatively excited about, I might try to deflect and not answer the question. If it's a girl I don't care that much about, I might try to challenge the notion a bit and mention the discrepancies in the views and how there's more there to think about -- although I find that I usually end up "losing" in this situation anyway. A girl has to be really into you to be okay with you revealing a big dissimilarity between the both of you!

What's surprising is that I talked to her after that and she didn't realize we aren't close in the political spectrum. Probably because I did a good job deep diving and not talking and creating a connection with her to the extent that she thinks we the same beliefs regarding everything.

That's unfortunate. This is why I call these the "forbidden" topics. A girl can otherwise believe you might be her soulmate based on every other conversation topic she's had with you so far and then take a complete nosedive when you hit one of these. They are best avoided when possible.

EDIT: About that article, there's a bit where Chase is talking on how to disagree with people i.e. not attack them directly, but discredit the other party's sources of belief information, citing as an example that feminism has always been a strongly lesbian-led movement.

But in reality, isn't that always the case, even for the point you're trying to make? People who like guns will find reasons for guns to be allowed, etc.

Because I try to do exactly what he says when I'm trying to convince someone of something, but what happens in turn is that the other side just points out that my source may be biased as well ("well, you can tweak a research to produce any result you want!").

That argument largely discredits any kind of scientific research, and then we're only arguing anecdotes that obviously won't go anywhere since both parties can keep mirroring anecdotes ad infinitum. Thoughts

Yeah, I mean it really depends on what your goal here is. If your goal is to lay the girl directly in front of you, then just (a) avoid, (b) deflect, (c) discredit information source (in that order). Although if you end up at (c), you unfortunately might be in a tight spot.

When it comes to arguing with men (or women you aren't looking to lay), then yes, discrediting sources of information is a good way to attack the issue. Although I live in California and have some of the most extreme left-leaning friends, and they literally believe certain news sources/media outlets to be delivering only "factual" information. If someone is so hard-headed to believe that a news source delivers only completely factual, non-biased information, then you're going to beat your head against a wall trying to convince that person otherwise. (EDIT: At that point, it's best to stop and ask yourself, "is it worth my time and/or potential relationship with this person to talk about this with him/her?" From my experience, about 99 times out of 100, it's basically not!)

- Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

I would have just looked at her and gave her a (unknowingly very ambiguous) "smirk" of sorts. If she decides to interpret that smirk as me agreeing with her and finding the whole thing silly, good! If she happens to question my smirk, well, then it just depends on how much I "care" about her I guess.

Noted. I realized I try to steer the convo in a specific direction (the bed) with girls, and I often lose some of my core characteristics trying to maintain that agenda ("Don't disagree here! Don't be an asshole or she'll auto-reject!").

Yesterday something funny happened. A guy approached me in the gym because he saw me doing some calisthenics shit and wanted to learn how to do it... and automatically I adopted a pose of authority. Chest up, lower voice tone, talking very very calmly, and very dismissive non-verbals as if it was nothing for me. I didn't even think about it. Now when talking to guys that were better than me, I opened up way more.

The same happens with girls, I feel. In some cases when trying to "motivate" or "connect" or "care," I'm more afraid of being an ass or "breaking the spell" or some shit and by doing that I end up breaking the spell in fact! I should probably start internalizing the idea that I'm the unquestionable authority.

That's unfortunate. This is why I call these the "forbidden" topics. A girl can otherwise believe you might be her soulmate based on every other conversation topic she's had with you so far and then take a complete nosedive when you hit one of these. They are best avoided when possible.

Dead on, man. I feel the same. I mean, if I can get her to invest enough (over a period of some months) to actually listen to me, I'm pretty confident I can change her mind. As long as she's not part of the fanatic deaf-blind 1%, that is. But I very rarely (to put it mildly) have anything in common with those girls anyway.

It's something that I've understood I'll have to learn to circumvent for a while, because I find that most attractive girls in their 20-30s around me are left-leaning as well. But I feel most of them are just siding with the left because their policies appeal to the heightened sense of altruism that women naturally have ("Minorities are suffering! Free everything for the poor!").

If you sit down and explain with facts over a longer period of time, a big slice of them will stop and see that some of those policies are actually impossible with the current technology.

 

[Chase]

Big Daddy-

Best way to deal with these sorts of situations is to paint your position in a mild, understandable way she can't really protest against:

• Her: [sees comment] Ugh, I hate being around these friends. They're all Trump supporters.
  
  You: Uh-oh. Better call the SPLC.
  
  Her: LOL. Why, OMG, are you a Trump supporter?
  
  You: I'm a heterosexual white male. One party wants to crucify me and the other one thinks I'm an okay kind of guy. I just vote for the one that won't lynch me.

And then she can argue how no, the Democrat party doesn't hate white or heterosexuals at all, and blah blah.

Which is fine because at that point she's on the defensive, trying to explain herself. And you can just brush the conversation topic off: "Oh yeah. Maybe I just met the wrong types of people. Too many radical Dems around here I guess. Oh no, he has a penis!" Just make it fun / light / funny, then get off the topic.

I should also note that remarks of this kind, at the deep/internal level, come from a place of "We're not really that different." When you say "Uh-oh. Better blah blah something funny and over-the-top" in reaction to someone saying "Oh no! Those people are X!" or "You are a Y!" you are really saying hey, this thing is not that serious. It's not something to be up-in-arms about. Which is curiosity-inducing in and of itself, because when someone is trapped in tribal/partisan world it can be downright discombobulating to meet someone from the other tribe who does not view her as an enemy or a fool, but rather as just another person who has other views that aren't particularly relevant to the conversation at hand.

Chase