9 December 2016: Saigon, Vietnam.
I matched with 19 year old Uyen on VietnameseCupid. We scheduled a meet for the evening. She had a cute face. She donned glasses with big lens, and we was rocking pretty dress. She stood at around 5'2.
When she arrived, it was raining. I met her outside my hotel and she gave me a raincoat and helmet. Her personality was quite eccentric and extremely bubbly. At first I was very attracted to it and was a breath of fresh air.
We drove around for about 40 minutes to find a restaurant. It was freaking ridiculous. She was zooming through traffic, and sometimes driving against traffic on a unidirectional road. She was so damn undecisive but I wasn't too fussed about her taking so long. But it leads me to the next point, I realise I need to schedule a meet at a nearby place so I don't waste time riding in a bike which leads me further away from my pulling location.
We sat down at the dinner table. The cuisine was Hue food. We ended up sitting on the same side of the table interestingly. She asked me to sit next to her. I was okay with that. We ordered our food and she was kind of leaning close to me, and our conversation was upbeat and lively. Her English was pretty bad. My vibe was more so "cute" rather than bad boy or masculine. My reasoning was that a cute vibe seemed to mesh well with hers. I read the situation incorrectly. She spoon fed me a couple of times, but she rejected me when I spoon fed her. At one point at dinner, she said I looked cute as I ate a dumpling. She said this in kind of a way you'd call a little child cute, so I did not consider it as a compliment. In hindsight, considering her personality, being cute was definitely not the way to go. I had to be dominant, decisive, and have a bad boy edge, to pump up my perceived value face in light on my apparently ambiguous value. She perceived me as lower value than her because of my "cuteness". My fundamentals and vibe had to be more powerful.
I grabbed her wrist to inspect her watch tan line, and after 2 seconds or so, she used her hand to remove my hand. This rung alarm bells in my head. At one point she asked me to take selfies of us, and she commented that we had the same length of hair. She jokingly remarked, "Are you a girl? Are you a gay?" This stung. I seem to have a lot of girls these days say that I look like a girl with my long hair. My hair is around chin length. It's straight from the root to the mid point, and kinda permed and wavy at the bottom. My hair is curtained. Anyway. The fact that I have girls thinking I look like a girl probably points in the direction that I need to up my masculinity and my fundamentals. Being "cute" does not do me any favours when it comes to trying to offset some of the femininity that comes with long hair.
We spilt the bill for dinner, and I suggested going to a bar. She suggested live music. It sounded like a pretty good idea. We rode along and I had my hands around her waist, kinda cupping them. At one point, she moved my hands away from her waist, and gestured me to grab onto her dress rather than her waist. Maybe it must've tickled her? Or maybe she wasn't comfortable with this level of physical escalation. Alarm bells.
We arrived at the bar, and live music was playing. It wasn't the case that a band played in the background whilst people chatted. Rather, they were the main event. The music was very loud and was not conducive for conversation. The music was pretty good, but I couldn't not shake the feeling that something was wrong. I was moving backwards rather than forwards. Here Uyen was dancing, clapping, cheering, taking photos and sharing a live video with her Facebook friends. I was standing behind her staring off into the distance, thinking what a horrible venue she had picked. There was just too much fun. It seemed almost like I was on a party date. At multiple instances she asked me to dance, and kinda forced my arms to dance. Dancing is one of my favourite things to do in the world, but here I was feeling like and idiot because I did not feel like dancing one bit. I had my hand around her waist twice. Each time she moved it with her hand. At one point I kissed her head briefly when I felt the vibe was intimate. She replied with, "Don't kiss me!"
I was feeling a little irritated with the inability to get her comfortable with my touch, and the venue was way too loud and overall just inappropriate for moving things forward. At a couple of instances I just felt so withdrawn and disconnected. Here she was having a ball, having the time of her life and dancing to the music, and I felt like a mopey partypooper.
At one point, I suggested going to the park to walk. She wanted to stay but, I was vigilant with my frame. Either we were going to go to a quieter venue, or I was gonna leave. She yielded, even though she wanted to stay and dance. She wanted to stay for a few more minutes though. I agreed.
At this point I was just not feeling it. I was not happy about how the date was going. I was not happy about how I was going nowhere and she was resisting my simplest forms of touch. I zoned off into the distance, seeming a little bored and a little beaten.
At one point she grabbed my Yin Yang pendant and said that it was Chinese. She said she didn't like Chinese. "Vietnamese and Chinese aren't friends. Do you know this?" She proceeded to talk about the historical significance of the animosity between the two countries. "You said you are Chinese right? I don't like you!" she laughed. Clearly she was joking and part of her eccentric personality, but this just rubbed me wrong. I was close to auto rejecting and couldn't stand another second at the bar. I didn't respond to her racist comments. I simply said, "Come on, let's get out of here."
I instantly felt better when I left the crowded bar. I told her to drive to my hotel as there was a nearby park there. My aim was to physically escalate, build attraction and pull. She was not ready to be pulled yet. On the ride there, I was thinking about how annoying this date was. On a couple of instances, Uyen had been insensitive and insulting, and overall her eccentric over the top energetic quirkiness was getting on my nerves.
The whole bike ride there, I was thinking, 'Don't you dare get bitter. You will control your emotions. You will not let her frame wear you thin. If you are a man who crumbles under the face of her feminine frame, you are no man at all. You will not be bitter. You will not be passive aggressive. You will win her over and fuck her pussy.'
She ended up parking the bike at my hotel and we walked to the park. I held her hand, which I kinda resisted. She asked me why I was holding it. I told her that I wanted to. I was quiet. I didn't talk much. I was close to auto rejection due to a bunch of things not going my way, as well as feeling insulted and annoyed by her over the top personality. She asked me a couple of times if I was sad. I told her that I wasn't. She asked because I wasn't smiling and was being quiet.
I have this spot in the park that is perfect for physical escalation and setting the vibe. It's secluded, and very dark. However Uyen didn't want to sit there were it was too dark and she was scared of ghosts. She instead wanted to sit on a little ledge with little privacy and which was also brightly lit. I held strong to my frame of finding a private place to sit, but she kept trying to get me to sit on the ledge. I eventually persisted and grabbed us a seat. The way she resisted compliance was annoying and honestly wearing me thin. At one point she said that I looked like I was annoyed with her.
We eventually seated and I held her hand. She told me she didn't like it. I asked if it was because she was shy. She told me the reason was because it was unfamiliar. I had my arm around her shoulder twice, but she didn't like it and moved it away. In each case I backed off and was aloof. I didn't give her very much eye contact and seemed bored and zoned out. She turned to face me and put her hand on my shoulder. I joked, "So you're allowed to touch me but I'm not allowed to touch you?" She responded by saying that she was touching me in a brotherly sisterly way, and said we were hanging out as siblings. 'What the actual fuck,' I thought to myself. I kind of withdrew my attention and put on a face that said: 'Wow. What you said is so stupid that I can't even begin to describe it.' She kinda just laughed. She then proceeded to play music on her phone. She played this one sad, soppy song that I knew I absolutely hated. This annoyed me to no end. When I grabbed her hand to hold, she'd let me hold it for 30 seconds or so. At one instant she said, I'd rather you talk to me rather than touch me, before slipping her hand away.
At one point I said, "Let me ask you something. Do you think I'm cute, or do you think I'm handsome? Do you like me? Because whenever I hold your hand or kiss your cheek, you don't like it." She replied jokingly, "You're not cute, I think you're ugly." At this point I was sick of her prickly sense of humour and faced away from her withdrawing all physical contact and gazed off into the distance slightly facing away from her. She kinda continued the conversation but I ignored her completely. Eventually she said she was joking and said she thought I was handsome. She played with my hair and slicked it back and tied into a low bun. She said I was very handsome with my hair back, and that having it curtained made me look like a girl. She took some pictures of me with my slicked hairstyle.
Throughout this whole time I was demanding compliance and leading. I told her where we were going to sit. I told her we were not going to sit on the ledge. I grabbed her hand and pulled it into me. I told her to look at me. I told her to tell me about XYZ. She seemed to resist a lot of my compliance.
At one point we were sitting pretty close together and our faces were kinda close. Whenever I leaned into kiss her cheek, she leaned far back. Eventually, she stood up and wanted to go home. There was a big puddle blocking our movement, so only one person could fit into through the path. She playfully daid, "Girls first," and gestured me to walk first. This just rubbed me wrong, and I was fucking livid on the inside. We walked for a minute in silence and I didn't say a word. She kinda pranced and skipped alongside me, kinda grabbing my arm and touching my shoulder. I went buy some water at a convenience store. I eventually thought, 'Fuck it. I don't give a damn if I pull or not but worth a shot.' I asked, "Wanna watch some TV before you go? You can stay for a bit before you leave." She said, "No." I thought as much. I continued to walk, largely silent, and she grabbed on my hand and held it. I considered it an escalation window and wanted to see if I could push further. I asked her why she held my hand if she didn't like to touch me. She said it was because I looked sad. This made me feel so even angrier. We arrived at my hostel, and we disconnected our hands. I said bye to her. And parted ways. The goodbye was far from warm.
-----
Finishing thoughts:
Pros:
- Stength of frame
Cons:
- Fundamentals could have been stronger (particularly with focus on dominant and masculine mannerisms)
- The "cute" side of my personality which I put in during dinner was not doing me any favours. I think it set the precedence for the rest of the night. She perceived me lower value than her.
- My emotional control was bad. It showed.
- I should not have agreed to go to a live music bar.
- I should have worked harder to generate higher levels of compliance.
- I showed feelings of butthurt and defeat. She could catch that I was feeling unhappy, despite myself negating her suspicions. At a couple of instances my facial expression and tone of voice were pretty emotionless and dull. She imitated me at one point. However, I did manage to control my emotions somewhat and restore the energy back into the conversation.
As I'm writing this, I'm feeling these surges of anger. After this date, I felt, emasculated, insulted, angry and annoyed.
I feel angry that she insulted my masculinity. She said I looked like a girl, and one point sneered, "Are you a gay?" I think having multiple girls comment on my feminity means that I need to up my masculinity and fundamentals. I'll probably cut back on my "cuteness" in my personality. But I don't know. I've sleep with many girls who have thought I looked girly.
I felt annoyed at her personality. It was just too damn much. A lot of the things she said came off as way uncalibrated. Like who the hell says things like, "I don't like Chinese," knowing full well that my ethnicity is Chinese? Who the hell goes on a date and talks down to me like I'm their brother? Little things like taking 40 minutes to find a place for dinner as well. I just found her so annoying. She was just too much for me. From the dancing, and clapping at the bar, so forcing me to dance and sing along with her.
She denied simple compliance attempts and recoiled at most of my attempts at physical escalation. To be fair, I think she girl was just a waste of time. Usually girls do not resist my compliance attempts nearly as much as Uyen did.
I'm angry because I feel like I didn't have control in this situation. I couldn't get this to go my way, and I was emasculated, and belittled. My attempts to out-frame her were largely ineffective. I did not know how to respond to her uncalibrated insults and backhanded humour other than with passive boredom and disbelief. I don't think I've ever been this angry after a date before.
Anyway, I'm trying hard not to be bitter. Maybe I just ought to stick with girls who are not a waste of time, because time wasters are such a huge emotional drain. I'm trying not to be bitter. Uyen did not owe me anything. She does not owe me her compliance, or anything for that matter. I gotta focus on improving myself, and not let these dark thoughts drain my emotional energy.
I gotta recognise the lesson and take aways from dates and move on. I gotta see things from the girl's perspective. I gotta seek first to understand the mental model from her perspective.
Tonight had been such a frustrating night, but I'm glad I had the learning experience.
Would love to hear your comments on this one guys, and I have some questions.
1. How should you respond to girls belittling you/saying innappropriate things?
2. Do you think I'm overreacting with my anger and annoyance? Maybe I was just in a bad headspace, so the negative feelings were amplified.
3. How should I proceed with commanding, ascertaining compliance and out-framing energetic, mischievous, eccentric girls?
Cheers,
Jeffrey
I matched with 19 year old Uyen on VietnameseCupid. We scheduled a meet for the evening. She had a cute face. She donned glasses with big lens, and we was rocking pretty dress. She stood at around 5'2.
When she arrived, it was raining. I met her outside my hotel and she gave me a raincoat and helmet. Her personality was quite eccentric and extremely bubbly. At first I was very attracted to it and was a breath of fresh air.
We drove around for about 40 minutes to find a restaurant. It was freaking ridiculous. She was zooming through traffic, and sometimes driving against traffic on a unidirectional road. She was so damn undecisive but I wasn't too fussed about her taking so long. But it leads me to the next point, I realise I need to schedule a meet at a nearby place so I don't waste time riding in a bike which leads me further away from my pulling location.
We sat down at the dinner table. The cuisine was Hue food. We ended up sitting on the same side of the table interestingly. She asked me to sit next to her. I was okay with that. We ordered our food and she was kind of leaning close to me, and our conversation was upbeat and lively. Her English was pretty bad. My vibe was more so "cute" rather than bad boy or masculine. My reasoning was that a cute vibe seemed to mesh well with hers. I read the situation incorrectly. She spoon fed me a couple of times, but she rejected me when I spoon fed her. At one point at dinner, she said I looked cute as I ate a dumpling. She said this in kind of a way you'd call a little child cute, so I did not consider it as a compliment. In hindsight, considering her personality, being cute was definitely not the way to go. I had to be dominant, decisive, and have a bad boy edge, to pump up my perceived value face in light on my apparently ambiguous value. She perceived me as lower value than her because of my "cuteness". My fundamentals and vibe had to be more powerful.
I grabbed her wrist to inspect her watch tan line, and after 2 seconds or so, she used her hand to remove my hand. This rung alarm bells in my head. At one point she asked me to take selfies of us, and she commented that we had the same length of hair. She jokingly remarked, "Are you a girl? Are you a gay?" This stung. I seem to have a lot of girls these days say that I look like a girl with my long hair. My hair is around chin length. It's straight from the root to the mid point, and kinda permed and wavy at the bottom. My hair is curtained. Anyway. The fact that I have girls thinking I look like a girl probably points in the direction that I need to up my masculinity and my fundamentals. Being "cute" does not do me any favours when it comes to trying to offset some of the femininity that comes with long hair.
We spilt the bill for dinner, and I suggested going to a bar. She suggested live music. It sounded like a pretty good idea. We rode along and I had my hands around her waist, kinda cupping them. At one point, she moved my hands away from her waist, and gestured me to grab onto her dress rather than her waist. Maybe it must've tickled her? Or maybe she wasn't comfortable with this level of physical escalation. Alarm bells.
We arrived at the bar, and live music was playing. It wasn't the case that a band played in the background whilst people chatted. Rather, they were the main event. The music was very loud and was not conducive for conversation. The music was pretty good, but I couldn't not shake the feeling that something was wrong. I was moving backwards rather than forwards. Here Uyen was dancing, clapping, cheering, taking photos and sharing a live video with her Facebook friends. I was standing behind her staring off into the distance, thinking what a horrible venue she had picked. There was just too much fun. It seemed almost like I was on a party date. At multiple instances she asked me to dance, and kinda forced my arms to dance. Dancing is one of my favourite things to do in the world, but here I was feeling like and idiot because I did not feel like dancing one bit. I had my hand around her waist twice. Each time she moved it with her hand. At one point I kissed her head briefly when I felt the vibe was intimate. She replied with, "Don't kiss me!"
I was feeling a little irritated with the inability to get her comfortable with my touch, and the venue was way too loud and overall just inappropriate for moving things forward. At a couple of instances I just felt so withdrawn and disconnected. Here she was having a ball, having the time of her life and dancing to the music, and I felt like a mopey partypooper.
At one point, I suggested going to the park to walk. She wanted to stay but, I was vigilant with my frame. Either we were going to go to a quieter venue, or I was gonna leave. She yielded, even though she wanted to stay and dance. She wanted to stay for a few more minutes though. I agreed.
At this point I was just not feeling it. I was not happy about how the date was going. I was not happy about how I was going nowhere and she was resisting my simplest forms of touch. I zoned off into the distance, seeming a little bored and a little beaten.
At one point she grabbed my Yin Yang pendant and said that it was Chinese. She said she didn't like Chinese. "Vietnamese and Chinese aren't friends. Do you know this?" She proceeded to talk about the historical significance of the animosity between the two countries. "You said you are Chinese right? I don't like you!" she laughed. Clearly she was joking and part of her eccentric personality, but this just rubbed me wrong. I was close to auto rejecting and couldn't stand another second at the bar. I didn't respond to her racist comments. I simply said, "Come on, let's get out of here."
I instantly felt better when I left the crowded bar. I told her to drive to my hotel as there was a nearby park there. My aim was to physically escalate, build attraction and pull. She was not ready to be pulled yet. On the ride there, I was thinking about how annoying this date was. On a couple of instances, Uyen had been insensitive and insulting, and overall her eccentric over the top energetic quirkiness was getting on my nerves.
The whole bike ride there, I was thinking, 'Don't you dare get bitter. You will control your emotions. You will not let her frame wear you thin. If you are a man who crumbles under the face of her feminine frame, you are no man at all. You will not be bitter. You will not be passive aggressive. You will win her over and fuck her pussy.'
She ended up parking the bike at my hotel and we walked to the park. I held her hand, which I kinda resisted. She asked me why I was holding it. I told her that I wanted to. I was quiet. I didn't talk much. I was close to auto rejection due to a bunch of things not going my way, as well as feeling insulted and annoyed by her over the top personality. She asked me a couple of times if I was sad. I told her that I wasn't. She asked because I wasn't smiling and was being quiet.
I have this spot in the park that is perfect for physical escalation and setting the vibe. It's secluded, and very dark. However Uyen didn't want to sit there were it was too dark and she was scared of ghosts. She instead wanted to sit on a little ledge with little privacy and which was also brightly lit. I held strong to my frame of finding a private place to sit, but she kept trying to get me to sit on the ledge. I eventually persisted and grabbed us a seat. The way she resisted compliance was annoying and honestly wearing me thin. At one point she said that I looked like I was annoyed with her.
We eventually seated and I held her hand. She told me she didn't like it. I asked if it was because she was shy. She told me the reason was because it was unfamiliar. I had my arm around her shoulder twice, but she didn't like it and moved it away. In each case I backed off and was aloof. I didn't give her very much eye contact and seemed bored and zoned out. She turned to face me and put her hand on my shoulder. I joked, "So you're allowed to touch me but I'm not allowed to touch you?" She responded by saying that she was touching me in a brotherly sisterly way, and said we were hanging out as siblings. 'What the actual fuck,' I thought to myself. I kind of withdrew my attention and put on a face that said: 'Wow. What you said is so stupid that I can't even begin to describe it.' She kinda just laughed. She then proceeded to play music on her phone. She played this one sad, soppy song that I knew I absolutely hated. This annoyed me to no end. When I grabbed her hand to hold, she'd let me hold it for 30 seconds or so. At one instant she said, I'd rather you talk to me rather than touch me, before slipping her hand away.
At one point I said, "Let me ask you something. Do you think I'm cute, or do you think I'm handsome? Do you like me? Because whenever I hold your hand or kiss your cheek, you don't like it." She replied jokingly, "You're not cute, I think you're ugly." At this point I was sick of her prickly sense of humour and faced away from her withdrawing all physical contact and gazed off into the distance slightly facing away from her. She kinda continued the conversation but I ignored her completely. Eventually she said she was joking and said she thought I was handsome. She played with my hair and slicked it back and tied into a low bun. She said I was very handsome with my hair back, and that having it curtained made me look like a girl. She took some pictures of me with my slicked hairstyle.
Throughout this whole time I was demanding compliance and leading. I told her where we were going to sit. I told her we were not going to sit on the ledge. I grabbed her hand and pulled it into me. I told her to look at me. I told her to tell me about XYZ. She seemed to resist a lot of my compliance.
At one point we were sitting pretty close together and our faces were kinda close. Whenever I leaned into kiss her cheek, she leaned far back. Eventually, she stood up and wanted to go home. There was a big puddle blocking our movement, so only one person could fit into through the path. She playfully daid, "Girls first," and gestured me to walk first. This just rubbed me wrong, and I was fucking livid on the inside. We walked for a minute in silence and I didn't say a word. She kinda pranced and skipped alongside me, kinda grabbing my arm and touching my shoulder. I went buy some water at a convenience store. I eventually thought, 'Fuck it. I don't give a damn if I pull or not but worth a shot.' I asked, "Wanna watch some TV before you go? You can stay for a bit before you leave." She said, "No." I thought as much. I continued to walk, largely silent, and she grabbed on my hand and held it. I considered it an escalation window and wanted to see if I could push further. I asked her why she held my hand if she didn't like to touch me. She said it was because I looked sad. This made me feel so even angrier. We arrived at my hostel, and we disconnected our hands. I said bye to her. And parted ways. The goodbye was far from warm.
-----
Finishing thoughts:
Pros:
- Stength of frame
Cons:
- Fundamentals could have been stronger (particularly with focus on dominant and masculine mannerisms)
- The "cute" side of my personality which I put in during dinner was not doing me any favours. I think it set the precedence for the rest of the night. She perceived me lower value than her.
- My emotional control was bad. It showed.
- I should not have agreed to go to a live music bar.
- I should have worked harder to generate higher levels of compliance.
- I showed feelings of butthurt and defeat. She could catch that I was feeling unhappy, despite myself negating her suspicions. At a couple of instances my facial expression and tone of voice were pretty emotionless and dull. She imitated me at one point. However, I did manage to control my emotions somewhat and restore the energy back into the conversation.
As I'm writing this, I'm feeling these surges of anger. After this date, I felt, emasculated, insulted, angry and annoyed.
I feel angry that she insulted my masculinity. She said I looked like a girl, and one point sneered, "Are you a gay?" I think having multiple girls comment on my feminity means that I need to up my masculinity and fundamentals. I'll probably cut back on my "cuteness" in my personality. But I don't know. I've sleep with many girls who have thought I looked girly.
I felt annoyed at her personality. It was just too damn much. A lot of the things she said came off as way uncalibrated. Like who the hell says things like, "I don't like Chinese," knowing full well that my ethnicity is Chinese? Who the hell goes on a date and talks down to me like I'm their brother? Little things like taking 40 minutes to find a place for dinner as well. I just found her so annoying. She was just too much for me. From the dancing, and clapping at the bar, so forcing me to dance and sing along with her.
She denied simple compliance attempts and recoiled at most of my attempts at physical escalation. To be fair, I think she girl was just a waste of time. Usually girls do not resist my compliance attempts nearly as much as Uyen did.
I'm angry because I feel like I didn't have control in this situation. I couldn't get this to go my way, and I was emasculated, and belittled. My attempts to out-frame her were largely ineffective. I did not know how to respond to her uncalibrated insults and backhanded humour other than with passive boredom and disbelief. I don't think I've ever been this angry after a date before.
Anyway, I'm trying hard not to be bitter. Maybe I just ought to stick with girls who are not a waste of time, because time wasters are such a huge emotional drain. I'm trying not to be bitter. Uyen did not owe me anything. She does not owe me her compliance, or anything for that matter. I gotta focus on improving myself, and not let these dark thoughts drain my emotional energy.
I gotta recognise the lesson and take aways from dates and move on. I gotta see things from the girl's perspective. I gotta seek first to understand the mental model from her perspective.
Tonight had been such a frustrating night, but I'm glad I had the learning experience.
Would love to hear your comments on this one guys, and I have some questions.
1. How should you respond to girls belittling you/saying innappropriate things?
2. Do you think I'm overreacting with my anger and annoyance? Maybe I was just in a bad headspace, so the negative feelings were amplified.
3. How should I proceed with commanding, ascertaining compliance and out-framing energetic, mischievous, eccentric girls?
Cheers,
Jeffrey
