I should be better by now.

[Zoro]

I've been a reader of GC before there was a forum, and I've been a member since it started (changed username and made a new account since then).

While GC has CERTAINLY helped me a ton, I feel like I'm missing something.

In my own opinion, I'm not as skilled as I could be, simply because of lack of practice. I don't currently live in an area where I can meet women regularly. But I am working on that, and I expect that to change soon (moving back to a city that is more suited for daygame), so maybe I'll finally be able to hone my skills.

However, I said I'm moving back to that city. I had lived there for a couple years already, and I did get a lot more opportunity to practice. I didn't really get anywhere though. I'd say my confidence went up, and I've learned some things, but I haven't really become GOOD, meaning achieving actual results. In fact, I didn't sleep with or date any new women in that city despite being there for about 2 years. I only have a bunch of instant dates and a few first dates from daygame.

Also I did go abroad a few times where my game was benefited by much better daygame logistics and the exotic factor, I think if I was there for only a week longer I would have some results to speak for. Fortunately I expect to return to those places and pick up where I left off, I even have a couple girls waiting for me to do just that.

All in all, I have some of my own thoughts of what is going on, but I could also use some help.

In my own estimation, I'm not bad at game. I'm just not understanding something crucial.

In a coaching session with Tony, he told me that I "want it too badly" and women pick up on that. I think that could be part of it, and I've worked on that since getting that advice. You could say I've chilled out a bit, while maintaining my motivation.

This might be controversial, and it's very personal but I'm including it, because I trust and love this community and really want to improve. I'm addicted to porn. I'm currently getting help for it. I have what might be considered woo-woo beliefs about this, but I think it negatively affects my personal magnetism. I've seen MANY anecdotal reports of guys quitting porn and having a huge amount of new female attention, and I've noticed this myself (not to mention positively affecting risk taking). Also it should be noted that it hasn't kept me from gaming and I have had successes despite it. I'm not using it at an excuse, but I do believe it's fucking with me in many ways, some of those ways directly hurting my game and attractiveness.

All in all, I don't think I can completely blame my environments lack of opportunity, because I think others have been able to thrive in similar ones, and even when I myself have been in better ones, that only benefited me marginally.

And I can't completely blame porn because while I do think it'll improve my game to be free from it, I've still been able to function and accomplish thinsg despite it.

So I'm turning to my bros here on GC.

Much Love, J (not John) Wick.

 

[PalmaSailor]

Well you know you - if you can do the analysis

“In my own opinion, I'm not as skilled as I could be, simply because of lack of practice.”

you do need practice. But there’s the bigger picture of your life.

if you define yourself solely by your success with women, then to an extent you become their bitch, and that’s counterintuitive.

so I’d ask what else is there about your life, work, ambition, plans, team sport, solo sport?

what are you building in you r life for YOU - and by that I mean what are you doing and trying to achieve that has nothing to do with women.

And - having said that, what are you doing about moving to a place where there are more women?

 

[Rain]

However, I said I'm moving back to that city. I had lived there for a couple years already, and I did get a lot more opportunity to practice. I didn't really get anywhere though. I'd say my confidence went up, and I've learned some things, but I haven't really become GOOD, meaning achieving actual results. In fact, I didn't sleep with or date any new women in that city despite being there for about 2 years. I only have a bunch of instant dates and a few first dates from daygame.

Was it approach anxiety stopping you from practice? Maybe not if you got insta dates and first dates. What was your approach to first date ratio?

Also I did go abroad a few times where my game was benefited by much better daygame logistics and the exotic factor, I think if I was there for only a week longer I would have some results to speak for. Fortunately I expect to return to those places and pick up where I left off, I even have a couple girls waiting for me to do just that.

I do not know that the wires cross. Eg if you're exotic, and that helps or is polarizing, great! What happens when you move back to your own country/culture... you'll lose the exotic factor and if you were lacking xyz fundamentals/game, that will still be lacking. I doubt you'd have more confidence because I don't think the wires cross like that. it might not be impossible....but I definitely would not say it's a guarantee.

In a coaching session with Tony, he told me that I "want it too badly" and women pick up on that. I think that could be part of it, and I've worked on that since getting that advice. You could say I've chilled out a bit, while maintaining my motivation.

Could a friend or even pay someone to record your cold approaches? That would show a lot of body language from a distance, and maybe voice and tonality as well if they were close enough or if you just had your phone in your pocket recording as well[you'd have to synch them up later, and then post up somewhere to have members here review your interaction]. I have thought about maybe getting someone to do this for me.

Also it should be noted that it hasn't kept me from gaming and I have had successes despite it. I'm not using it at an excuse, but I do believe it's fucking with me in many ways, some of those ways directly hurting my game and attractiveness.

There was a thread "why no fap doesn't work", it may have touched on a similar thing. I have not read it recently.
I don't think no fap works for me or makes me any more or less likley to approach. The one exception is if you're "procrastinating" doing that, instead of getting in the car and going to the shopping mall to meet new people.

 

[Zoro]

so I’d ask what else is there about your life, work, ambition, plans, team sport, solo sport?

what are you building in you r life for YOU - and by that I mean what are you doing and trying to achieve that has nothing to do with women.

I have plenty of that, but I did take time to think about your question. I think that I don't identify with those things as much as could.

I've recently had to redefine myself, since I took a break from being a musician. Now that I've had to learn new skills, and since those skills are still developing, I guess I could say that I still have a bit of an weak identity. I know what it feels like to have a strong identity, and feeling very confident and excited to "bring people into my world" and then having those people enjoy it as well. Those times were when I was steeped in my music, buddhist mindfulness practices, health food, and positivity.

Thanks for that question, got my mind moving in good directions. I think this is something I assumed I had addressed, and it's important.

And - having said that, what are you doing about moving to a place where there are more women?

Yup, this is in the works.

----------

Was it approach anxiety stopping you from practice? Maybe not if you got insta dates and first dates. What was your approach to first date ratio?

I might get some anxiety here and there, but usually I would be able to approach anyway. Honestly, I'm not sure I don't track those things. If I had to guess between 1:15 and 1:30.

I do not know that the wires cross. Eg if you're exotic, and that helps or is polarizing, great! What happens when you move back to your own country/culture... you'll lose the exotic factor and if you were lacking xyz fundamentals/game, that will still be lacking. I doubt you'd have more confidence because I don't think the wires cross like that. it might not be impossible....but I definitely would not say it's a guarantee.

Not sure what you are saying here.

Could a friend or even pay someone to record your cold approaches?

Might be worth a try.

I don't think no fap works for me or makes me any more or less likley to approach.

One benefit of avoiding porn that I've noticed for myself, is that I'm way less picky. Suddenly women I wouldn't have considered are now attractive to me, and I find that pretty awesome.

 

[Rain]

Not sure what you are saying here.

What I meant was, if you go to another country, and because you're different, you might need less 'fundamentals/game' to get 'more' women because you're a foreigner and some locals may view you as exotic and lots of attraction or something. But you haven't changed, your game has not changed, your fundamentals have not changed. So when you come back to your normal country, your "normal country women" won't be any easier because you haven't improved game/fundamentals.

A parallel of this, a friend suggested I try cold approach at a backpacker bar/hostel. I disagree. If I got a better approach to date ratio from a back packer hotel, so what? I don't want backpackers, they're not necessarily long term material. The long term material women won't become easier just because I got a few 'easier ones' whom might be more open to me due to them being foreigners themselves and/or travellors a subset of the party girl no strings mindset.

A lesser parallel example, is if you got with a hooker. Sure, you're having sex, but you're paying for it. You won't have changed your fundamentals/game by paying a hooker. Won't change anything. So going overseas and being with women who like you because of your foreigner exotic halo, won't help you when you return home. Does that explain it a bit better? I'm not saying it will definitely have zero effect, it might or might not have some good things, I'm just not sure it's a guarantee.

Eg your approach to date ratio will go back to 'normal' when you are no longer a exotic foreigner when you return to your normal country, if you decide to return of course.

 

[PalmaSailor]

What I meant was, if you go to another country, and because you're different, you might need less 'fundamentals/game' to get 'more' women because you're a foreigner and some locals may view you as exotic and lots of attraction or something. But you haven't changed, your game has not changed, your fundamentals have not changed. So when you come back to your normal country, your "normal country women" won't be any easier because you haven't improved game/fundamentals.

A parallel of this, a friend suggested I try cold approach at a backpacker bar/hostel. I disagree. If I got a better approach to date ratio from a back packer hotel, so what? I don't want backpackers, they're not necessarily long term material. The long term material women won't become easier just because I got a few 'easier ones' whom might be more open to me due to them being foreigners themselves and/or travellors a subset of the party girl no strings mindset.

A lesser parallel example, is if you got with a hooker. Sure, you're having sex, but you're paying for it. You won't have changed your fundamentals/game by paying a hooker. Won't change anything. So going overseas and being with women who like you because of your foreigner exotic halo, won't help you when you return home. Does that explain it a bit better? I'm not saying it will definitely have zero effect, it might or might not have some good things, I'm just not sure it's a guarantee.

Eg your approach to date ratio will go back to 'normal' when you are no longer a exotic foreigner when you return to your normal country, if you decide to return of course.

Rain is completely right here. And there’s s further point, which is even if you stay abroad where you have a comparatively higher SMV from the outset (which is how you got those women easier) then if you haven’t learned game you won’t be able to keep those women.

They’ll revert to type and shit test you in the relationship and reduce you to beta chump in the same way they do in 90% of marriages over time.

there’s no substitute for doing the work.

 

[Zoro]

@Rain

ahh ok, I get what you're saying now.

I should explain then, traveling is big part of my life and expect to continue doing it for a long time. Also when I travel, I stay in places for at least a month, and will probably start bumping that up to 2-3 months at a time.

Learning how to meet and date women while I travel, is a skill I want to develop.

Also I expect to travel back to many of these places, and I'm looking to live part time in my favorites of these places.

 

[Zoro]

Rain is completely right here. And there’s s further point, which is even if you stay abroad where you have a comparatively higher SMV from the outset (which is how you got those women easier) then if you haven’t learned game you won’t be able to keep those women.

They’ll revert to type and shit test you in the relationship and reduce you to beta chump in the same way they do in 90% of marriages over time.

there’s no substitute for doing the work.

Think you guys are misunderstanding me here.

I do not travel because I expect it to make it easier to game. I do it because I genuinely love to travel. I also am very serious about improving and often take the hard way if I think it will benefit my growth.

Also I would disagree about the idea that gaming while abroad won't improve game overall. Women and women, leading is leading. In fact, in many of these more traditional cultures, you really have to step up and learn to lead like a real man, which is a different style, but is worth learning even if you're gaming in the west, especially once you're in a relationship.

Also my relationship game is tight. I've proven to myself I can keep beautiful women around, even in open relationships. Currently in one right now.