If she likes you, she'll make it easy for you.

[Estate]

You know, this is one of those common sense things which sometimes gets lost in all of this...

So there's no replacements for all the "Fundamentals" listed in the articles on this site. All those things help you generally become a more attractive guy to more women.
But sometimes this is what even I forget. We get so wrapped up in all of this and how every "set" is to be "won" that you start to forget about the REAL aspect to thing. You can't win every time, at anything. You can just maximize your chances by practicing your skills. That goes for anything in life.

But here's the thing... sometimes, no matter how good your fundamentals, no matter how good your skills... some girls just dig you and some just don't.
Where it bugs me sometimes is that I meet a really awesome girl, she's hot, she smart, funny, intelligent, sporty, all the good things I like. And it feels almost effortless, I put my plan in action and she just goes with it.
Then I've met the occasional girl who I figure is only "ok" but I'm in the mood to take a girl home and I feel like I'm pulling every last thing I know to get her, and still, she just makes it so difficult.

It's true, there are many, many ways around many situations. Whether it's winning a girl over who is initially cold or aloof, getting past LMR or any other sticking point you come across. But even then... SOMETIMES, you can bang your head off the wall looking for a solution when really the truth is... she just wasn't into it. And it could be for a million reasons of her own, nothing to do with you. And there's no shame in that.

The thing is... if all your fundamentals are good, you are generally a good guy, look after yourself, look after other areas of your life besides pickup, all this makes you more attractive. So don't neglect this stuff. If you are generally a more attractive guy then more girls will be attracted to you. And if they are attracted, they won't make it difficult for you. You won't need all the tactics and tricks to make her want to talk to you, to kiss you, to sleep with you... she'll just want it, and she'll make it easy for you. No magic powers needed. People hookup every day without ever learning pickup. Focus on other areas of your life too... for heavens sake DO!!!
(Simple example... out of necessity, I worked a LOT on solo game. I had to. I got much better at it... but you know what? When I just expanded my social circle, I began to get more girls while having to expend less effort. I just had more social value now and people saw it, it wasn't an uphill battle against being the guy by himself. Don't make it harder on yourself!)

Sure, the homeless guy with good game, will bed more girls than the highest paid software engineer in the world who has crippling social anxiety. That can happen. But why make it harder on yourself? How about you are the guy with a great life AND all the fundamentals and social skills... you stack everything in your favor. Even then, if you are just a desirable guy, you just need to get good enough at this to not blow it, when a girl comes your way and gives you a chance. Of course, you want to be a jedi-PUA-master... but it's not an absolute requirement to be THAT good at it at the expense of other things in life. Make sure you're getting the right balance and the girls will come to you, not ALL of them, but the RIGHT ones will.

Absolutely, work on yourself, work on your life, maximize your potential in every day, but don't waste time and agonize and focus in on the ones you just can't seem to win. Why would you? There are so many women out there and the best ones will like you for the awesome man you are becoming. Learn to spot those girls and spend your time wisely on them and not the girls who make it hard on you.

 

[metomeya]

I wish the boards had a liking feature like Facebook. This post would (at least should) get a ton.

It is a shame so many people put so many resources in "game" before realizing the principles mentioned above.

Sure, the homeless guy with good game, will bed more girls than the highest paid software engineer in the world who has crippling social anxiety.

No work and all the pussy I could eat? Sign me up!

 

[ocantu1987]

I am reading chases ebook and I feel over whelmed. I think to myself that my big brother never read girls chase and he had a bunch of attractive women back in the 90's. Of course he also said that he was rejected alot too.

You don't have to master everything on this website to get a girlfriend right guys? if she is in to you then it works out just fine like Estate says right...

 

[The Tool]

if she is in to you then it works out just fine like Estate says right...

ehhhhhhh no. I had plenty of girls "Like me" in the past. And either because of failure to realize it. and not acting fast enough. nothing ever came of it.

Its not so much that you need "game" its that you need to recognize when to take action. And how to take action. GC just gives you the Tools you need. Its up to you how you use them.

GC is a giant Learning Curve. If you learn and absorb the materials the site, ebook, forum has to offer. You will be better off and know what to do in certain situations or be more aware of what you should do. It helps pave the road to success without having to go through all the trials of figuring it out on your own from scratch.

But you still need to go out there. And apply the knowledge you learn.

P.s Its because of GC and the knowledge it gave me that I obtained my girlfriend

Cheers, The Tool

 

[Richard]

We get so wrapped up in all of this and how every "set" is to be "won" that you start to forget about the REAL aspect to thing

This right here is a gem.

Its much easier for newer guys to focus on "game," and grasp its concepts when taught as "game," but everybody who stays in pick up reaches a point where you move past game into something more naturally you.

Things start to become much more effortless and your seductions increase as well.

-Richard

 

[Franco]

but everybody who stays in pick up reaches a point where you move past game into something more naturally you.

Things start to become much more effortless and your seductions increase as well.

The important thing you need to keep in mind is that this only happens after you've gone out and practiced the techniques so many times that you've found a style that works and fits for you. But until that happens, you don't really want to ignore the advice that is given here. This advice gives you a process that actually works, so you should practice it until you've seen it work and you believe in it whole-heartedly. Then from there, you can begin to take your reference points and see if you can expand your horizons by trying things that you think will work in place of those other techniques.

Adopt the system first. Then you can begin to expand upon it and mold it to fit your style.

- Franco

 

[Richard]

Excellent clarification point Franco

I emailed Chase about a new article I have coming out, and he mentioned exactly what you said =P

Great minds think alike!

 

[Estate]

So I hope what I wrote wasnt mis-interpreted.

Tool, absolutely right. If a girl likes you but you don't know what you're doing, its game over. I've been there. Thats why I played up Fundamentals so much. If you have this down then thats half the game won right there though. Guys often ask "what do I say", "how do I approach" and maybe they have the perfect words which worked for so many gurus before, but if they have been seen standing alone in the corner for a half hour before approaching, or deliver it with such a lack of confidence, then it doesnt matter... it will not work. Fundamentals are everything, not necessarily the lines and the tactics and running silly routines.

But stand back for a second, 2 girls in a room, one is just into you, your vibe, your demenour, the other, is just not:
You CAN get both. But the girl who likes you won't make it hard. She'll listen to your routine, think its cute that you have a little story and stay with you anyway. But do you even need to tell her the horse standing next to a ladder in a field of strawberries is some euphemism for her sexual desires? NO! She doesn't care. She's not an idiot. She gets it.

Now the other girl... you plow and plow and yes, maybe you can take her home. Now she gives you LMR, you pull out everything in your arsenal and she stays the night. You give her the night of her life but she still digs Bob, her f-buddy and when you try again to hook up with her shes "busy" and "has plans" and its push push push to make it happen. I can hear a million times that NO girl will do this if you pull out EVERY tactic but I dont believe it. Can you up your odds, from 0%, to 50% to 75%? Yes! Absolutely! But 100% odds that no girl has anything else going on in her life, has no opinions, preferences, desires with lead her in another direction? No way! But thats never whats taught by pick up artists. It sells products to make guys this insecure! (And this is why Im not a fan of RSD, MM and others, I dont believe this site goes heavily in that direction.)

But now look at it again. Why do we WANT the difficullt girl? Is it a sense of accomplishment? Sure, I guess thats a big part of it. But whats wrong with the girl who just was into your vibe from the get-go?

Im not in any way saying you should "settle"... never settle, but why is the more difficult girl better? Theres no reason to suggest she is. What I'm saying is, the game isn't as difficult as its made out to be. All the methods andd routines and tactics are great to learn, they up your odds so much.

But what gets totally ignored is just having an attractive life! Guys want to perfect lines, but wont just go and buy a fitted shirt and get a nice haircut.
They want the routines to get any girl in the club but do it the HARD way, going out alone and being the guy approaching every girl there when you could just roll in with your friends, have the time of your life and let people see it and let girls COME TO YOU!
They want the LMR tactics to bed a girl with the personality of a wet mop, when there's probably 5 other girls in the place who wouldn't take much more than some fun, confident conversation.
They'll abandon friends, family, career, interests and spend every minute gaming shopping malls alone when they COULD be with friends and meeting MORE people open to a warmer approach, they somehow stop valuing having a great career because its almost like we look down on guys who get girls due to "real" status, but shouldnt you value your own life enough to want this? And in turn it DOES give you value & status to people?
Instead of getting to the gym and making yourself fitter, healthier and more physically attractive to up your odds (while, ya know... being HEALTHIER and living longer), guys would rather not do ANY of that but ask for AMOG tactics and BF-Destroyer routines so they can feel like the triumphant underdog... it just all makes no sense to me.

Pick up is not all there is to life. Guys often come to it looking for all the answers but refuse to look at the easier stuff... how do guys who dont study game get hot girls? They have a great life! Whether it be career, interests, lots of friends, fitness and healthy looks, style or anything else... they havent learned what the Cube is but they can hold an absorbing conversation for days just through sheer life experience of how to engage people. It's not like you CAN'T do it without a stack of routines, how would humans even survive otherwise?

But my overall point is. Why make life harder on yourself? There seems to be this attitude that "naturals" (i.e. guys who just sort their shit out and life a decent attractive lifestyle) are the enemy. We don't want to be like them, we want a routine to "blow them out". It makes ZERO sense. Isn't a great career so you can provide for yourself and have the lifestyle you want important? Isn't being fit and healthy and stylish important for just making yourself feel good and having a better quality of life? Or is it more important to have none of that but know a few tactics to hack your way through the more difficult route?


I think I know what some guys will say to that question and it really saddens me.

-----------------------
Case in point, I'm seeing several girls right now. All with varying levels of interest. I don't know why it struck me this week but it did. I was in touch with a couple of them about making plans for next weekend. 2 of them are faffing about and not setting anything in stone.... and I get a text from one of the others "I'd love to get together... just name your time and place! x".
And you know what... that girl is awesome. Something inside me felt like I had to "win" by convincing the other 2 they wanted to see me but then I thought FUCK IT... they don't even know what they are missing... they'll faff about until Friday playing hard to get, and I'll be in bed with the girl who's NOT MAKING IT DIFFICULT. Girls like to place a lot of value on themselves or at least give that appearance but there's nothing about the other 2 girls which is any better, infact the girl I AM making plans with is so much easier to deal with that it's way more FUN to be with her. She isn't shooting herself in the foot by being more difficult and not realising what she is giving up. Yet I SHOULD feel (by conventional pick up logic) that I have failed here... I don't see it that way. The way I see it is that I picked based on the girl I am having a better time with therefore I win, and so does she.

 

[The Tool]

You are absolutely right Estate.

Respect.

 

[NarrowJ]

I can say that as a man, I am this way too.

Let's say I go out and I see two girls. One is, on a generic scale, more physically attractive. However, there might just be something about the other girl that I can't quite put my finger on it, and I actually like her more than the other girl.

And, I think that women are much more extreme about it. Many of them seem to just set their sights on one guy, and that's their man. They will do everything in their power to get him & keep him.


NJ

 

[Marty]

Estate:

I've read this thread through and I think that you, Franco and Tool Vaunswa are all essentially on the same page. GirlsChase doesn't teach the gimmicky tactics you mention, and it does emphasize being a great person and having a fulfilling life. So I don't think there's any contradiction. Chase even wrote an article entitled "Find the ones looking for you", I seem to remember.

However, determining who those girls actually are is something that takes skill. Chase teaches moving things forward assertively and paying heed to what they actually DO, never mind what they say or how they appear to react. I've tried to stick to that. The girl you mention, Estate, who texted you in such a carefree and endearing way sounds like a real treasure; you'd be crazy not to prioritize her way above others, I fully agree. But it is seldom so clear-cut, unfortunately.

I've always wondered: you talented and experienced guys in the leadership, do you ever wonder what women are thinking? Wish you could get inside her head? Or do you just follow your process and use your judgment and skill, and never mind too much about her motivations? Perhaps Franco would be willing to comment.

-Marty

 

[NarrowJ]

I'll add that sometimes a girl will really like you, but still won't make it 'easy' for you in the beginning. She thinks she has to play hard-to-get because she read it in some magazine or something. When in fact, unknowingly to herself, what she's actually doing is disqualifying herself with many of the top-notch men that simply won't deal with the games.

I can't count how many times I've had interactions that go like this:

Meet girl, seems really interested --> Contact her, try to setup date --> She makes setting up the date super difficult, or deflects it altogether --> After a few tries, I stop contacting her --> A week or so goes by --> I get a text from the girl wondering what happened to me, and now she wants to schedule something

So the best thing to do is to just train yourself to write them off when they act like that. It takes a good deal of abundance mentality, especially if the girl is really hot. I've been seeing a girl since about February (FWB) once a week or so, and she is like the girl Estate talks about. No games, always straight up about her schedule, doesn't make everything difficult. And she's one of the hottest women I've ever been with, to boot.


NJ

 

[Marty]

"I'd love to get together... just name your time and place! x".
And you know what... that girl is awesome.

Yes that girl is awesome. Big time. And what's funny is, she'll actually be treated far better (at least by decent guys like you) than the arrogant ones who try to get the upper hand through artifice and deceit. I raise my glass to that girl.

 

[The Tool]

Meet girl, seems really interested --> Contact her, try to setup date --> She makes setting up the date super difficult, or deflects it altogether --> After a few tries, I stop contacting her --> A week or so goes by --> I get a text from the girl wondering what happened to me, and now she wants to schedule something

LOL cant count how many times this has happened. noticed it happens at about 2 weeks after u last contacted her. Like a fricking charm. Well said NarrowJ

 

[trashKENNUT]

Estate,

Yes, there are girls that will make your life difficult. and there are girls that make things easy for you. I realize something. I do not want to sound "sour" here, but all too often we give credit to people who treat us well. IT isn't so much about rewarding the girls who make it easy for both of you, but over-credit this girls.

There are some girls that just like other guys more than you, and that's where guys, even myself sometimes haven't make peace with it, yet, unfortunately.

Peace,
Zac

 

[Estate]

Estate,

Yes, there are girls that will make your life difficult. and there are girls that make things easy for you. I realize something. I do not want to sound "sour" here, but all too often we give credit to people who treat us well. IT isn't so much about rewarding the girls who make it easy for both of you, but over-credit this girls.

There are some girls that just like other guys more than you, and that's where guys, even myself sometimes haven't make peace with it, yet, unfortunately.

Peace,
Zac

But this goes back to the CORE PROBLEM with pickup logic:
"The girl who requires you to jump through every hoop and run every last ounce of game just to grace you with her mere presence MUST be better right? And we fail if we do not win her over."

I don't see it this way anymore. I'm not saying the first girl is EASY, she is not. But we met, I used all the fundamentals I have learned to improve myself this last year and she was attracted. Now this particular girl is not shooting herself in the foot playing overly hard to get. She's not playing EASY but she doesn't make it hard, she is attracted and is perusing me more.

The 2nd (or some other) girls in the argument have never necessarily turned down a date. They always still contact me when I don't initiate with them, all the signs of being interested but they are constantly trying to flip the script and gain the "power". They are trying to position themselves as higher value but OVER DOING this sets girls up as much lower value these days to me.

When you CAN HAVE other girls, you don't need to deal with girls SHIT. Sure, a little cat and mouse makes both sides interested initially, but once you've met a girl a few times, have slept with them and they STILL try to gain the upper hand (yet completely relinquish it if you don't play along like other guys) reeks of desperation to me. And I don't want that girl. Yet "pickup logic" tells me I HAVE FAILED. I just don't see it that way. IMO, I have won....

Even as I post this, I've used 2 girls I've both seen equally lately as my example but both girls have opposite angles. As expected... when I insinuated one of the girls made it easier for me, most guys here immediately see her as "easy" and "low value". It's like the first thing that comes to mind but without describing both girls in detail, this couldn't be further from the truth. I am not talking about "easy girls"... I'm talking about mature girls with their heads screwed on. If I had no fundamentals and zero game I'd never have got either of them in the first place... but after a certain point, 1 type of girl likes me, acknowledges it and lets her guard down in order to get me. The other continues to chase me, then turn around and run away, then chase me again when I ignore.

To be honest my life has changed drastically over the last few years. I work in a huge technology company. I work in a very good position. It's important to me. I spend long hours at it. In my spare time I have a lot to do, I've gained a lot of friends and a huge social life in recent times. When I make a date with a girl these days, I am literally giving up 1 or 2 other offers to do something that night (maybe another date, maybe with friends, maybe rescheduling work, maybe a sport or other activity I do) so to me I just don't have time these days to play cat and mouse. If I ask a girl out I am clearing out my schedule for HER and she has the option to accept or not. If she does she won't regret it. If she doesn't... no worries, I literally don't have time for it, I'll go meet another girl or make plans with another. So if I decide to make an offer on a Tuesday for a Friday night and the girl faffs about until Thursday, TOO LATE! She missed her opportunity... BUT and I repeat... pickup logic tells me I've failed because I didn't persist, persist, persist. I find it laughable.

Passing up on a girl who has now shown herself to have very low value in my ranking (playing games, hard to get, flakey, unreliable, etc, etc...) in favor of a girl who shows HIGHER value (makes her interest known, reliable, confident, smiles, laughs, can have good conversation without it all being cat and mouse, usually these girls have their shit together over the flakey girls who live for drama) is a FAIL?? Oh, Give me strength!!!

 

[NarrowJ]

Estate,

I admit I don't read a lot of other pickup sites, so I don't really have a good grasp on what the community as a whole views as successes and failures. But, one of the many things I've learned on this site is to identify girls that waste your time and play games and eliminate them as quickly as you can.

If I ask a girl out 3 times and we don't have a date setup or she flakes on me, I just drop contact (and I probably shoot her the Heisman next time she texts me too). Weeding out these girls actually helps you to be successful with other girls. I have come across some other sites that are more "PUA-ish" and teach you to be a cold-hearted prick that manipulates women and treats them like dirt. And, I'd imagine some of those sites probably hold this viewpoint that unless you bed every girl you approach it's a failure. And you're right, it is completely laughable. I mean shit, even when I completely screw up an interaction and I learn from it (yes, still happens) = success in my book.

Just some more thoughts I had,
NJ

 

[trashKENNUT]

Estate,

there's a lot of philosophical PUA debate here, but no, you not a fail. You do succeed. Those girls indeed were a waste of time. Check out NarrowJ's article on Passive Aggressive Women. and Chase himself, "What to do when Girls act Superior, Rude and Aloof"

I hope the two articles will help.

Zac

 

[FeelIWastedMyYouth]

I doubt it, girls generally expect guys to lead in everything, do all the work for everything