FR I'm only into white guys (first post)

[tvktvk]

Hey guys. Kind of hard to write this right now because my ego took a hit and everything today, but I need to do this. (Warning, this will be a loooong post)

Personal Background:
So this is my first post. I'm tvktvk, I'm 21 from Norway and still a virgin. Back in high school I was the purest combination of provider and friend. As I was destined for a great school and possibly a great career I wanted to win girls over with my value (yeah, I know). Being a great listener I was befriending girls with ease. I was doing anything for girls, but they kept pushing me away. Never encountering any sexual flirtations drove me to great depression. It drove me absolutely insane! I was frustrated beyond words, literally crying in my bed sometimes from girls not being interested in me sexually while all I wanted was a girlfriend I could share my love with. Now I know it was my mother who made me that way, but I can't blame her because she does not know any better. I'm telling you all this because I want you understand where I come from. I want to make it easier for you to help me becoming the sexually irresistable man I was destined to be.

Ookay, so back to my background. Not much changed after I started college, but after I moved out it got a little bit better since I was going out a lot. It's not like I've never kissed a girl, my opening game is pretty good. I've had my fair share of drunken makeouts. But that's it. I had no closing game whatsoever. Still to this day my closing game is close to non existent.

About 10 months ago I found GC when I read the article on dancefloor seduction (I'm a good seductive dancer, most of my makeouts have been on the dancefloor, but never been able to pull the girls home). I kept on reading the blog because it made so much sense and after I read "The last post you'll ever need" It was like I had swallowed the red pill, woken up and witnessed the truth (if you don't know the scene, you got some movie watchin to do).

So I started reading religiously and applying the stuff and it has made a difference; My fundamentals are stronger, I cold approach more, I move faster and I don't get too attached. But I'm still a virgin. Today I went on my first proper date after discovering GC. Still a virgin. So here I am writing this FR so I can change that. Also for the record I'm not too fond of the PUA label. I'm here for self improvement. I'm here to become the man that women want to share their sexuality and love with and be an inspiration to other men in every facet of life. Not to fuck as many girls as possible. Okay soo on to the FR...

FR Background:
So I'm on exchange in North America right now and it's liberating because I even give less fucks about people judging me. I met this girl during the first day of orientation, she was probably the only girl that caught my attention from our exchange group. We were playing some get-to-know-each-other game and she made a scene about me screwing up her card. Now I assume that she just wanted me to notice her because she was giving me flirty looks when I told her I would make it up to her. That weekend we went out with the exchange group and I tried to isolate her a couple of times, but failed (we kept getting interrupted all the fucking time). I should have maybe put in more effort, but honestly I did not care enough to do so because I had terrible logistics. She however insisted that I add her on facebook.

The first week of school I find out that we have one class together, so I see her once a week. The second week I initiate a conversation during the break and find out that she lives downtown with a roommate, but she has a lot of privacy. Now from this convo I assume it is on, but we keep getting interrupted by people all the fucking time so I don't get to ask for her number and I don't want her to think I'm chasing. Week 4 I get to talk to her before class and she agrees to help me print something out after class. Perfect.

Number close In the end of our convo:
(Everytime you see "in retrospect" or I write something in CAPS LOCK there is something I need to work on or need help with)

Me - So you were saying you don't like hanging in groups?
Her - No, it's just that in big groups people seem to become shallow. I don't mind small groups. Why do you ask?
Me - I just wanted to ask for your number so we could hang out. We never see each other and I'd like to get to know you better.
Her - Yeah, sure.
In retrospect I don't know how strong my vibe was right here. Maybe I came off too platonic with my vibe? Anyways I had to bounce to my next class and we parted ways. 2 days later I shoot her a text.

Texting:
Me: Hey ......., hope your week's been good I can't wait for the weekend to come, I'm totally exhausted...
Her: My weekend started this afternoon and all I have been doing is watching tv haha Do you have any plans this weekend?
Me: Lucky you, haha Probably going to spend some time with my cousin, but other than that not much. What about you?
Her: Dinner, drinks and clubbing on Saturday, but that's all. (She then asked me a question about my family which I will cut out)
Me: We should meet up on Sunday though if you're not too hungover;-) Was thinking of heading downtown and doing some shopping
Her: Sounds good, just let me know when you're downtown!
After that we set up logistics.

Sunday:
I send her a text after I reach the mall. She's a bit late so I start shopping. She walks up to me smiling as I'm paying for my stuff.
After that we go to a cafe close by that she likes. We go straight to deep diving and she shoots me a lot of questions about my family. I answer most of them and maybe in retrospect I should have been more evasive? We finally get to switch over on her and she is doing 90 % of the talking. I only tell a similar story or two so we bond. We have a lot of the same family issues so I felt we had a really good connection. She is very open and direct and I respect that a lot. In retrospect I did not however 1. Throw any chase frame 2. Talk about relationships 3. Set a sexual frame. I did try to establish touch, but it didn't feel right and it did not warm her up.
After 1 hour I say let's go and she obliges.

Now here is the part where my plan was that we would chill back at her apt. Plan B was to find a bench somewhere and escalate from there. Mind you this around 4 PM and light as day.

The Ask:
Me: So do you wanna walk around for a bit or maybe chill back at your apt? (Applied Chase's tip of placing the desirable option last)
Her: Uhm, my apartment is kinda messy, I didn't get to clean up after last night so I don't wanna go there. Let's just walk a bit.
I SHOULD HAVE PUSHED HARDER HERE...but in retrospect this is the first platonic signal I recieved from her. If she wanted me to come over, she would have cleaned her apartment, right?
Me: Ok let's go for a walk.
So we walk and talk. And walk. And walk...
Over 30 minutes have gone when I finally spot a bench and tell her we should sit down for a little bit. I wanted to pull her into me and manhandle kiss her while we were walking, but we weren't isolated and it just didn't feel right. Just when I'm about to muster the courage to actually kiss her, she puts this bomb on me:

Wtf:
Her: So was this a date to you or hanging out with a friend? Because I see you as a friend.
Me: Uhm, I like you and I was just about to kiss you right now actually so yeah
Her: Yeah I rather you not do that. You're unfortunately not my type.
Me: I don't understand.
Her: I'm sorry, but I'm only attracted to white guys.
I HAVE LITERALLY NO IDEA WHAT TO SAY HERE (my parents are from South Asia)
Me: Listen, I'm not looking for anything serious. We're on exchange and should have fun while we can. I like you and I thought that a casual relationship would benefit the both of us.
Her: I understand and I don't mean to be racist or anything, but it's just how I am. I'm only into white guys. I'm so sorry!
I let this sink in for little bit. And I realize there is nothing I can really do in this situation that I know of so I just tell her that she does not need to apologize and I understand.

From here it gets pretty awkward but I ask here to be honest and tell me what she thinks about me. She tells me she thinks I'm very cool, easy to talk to and much more mature than many of the other exchange students. The thing that stops us from getting together is the physical appearance part. Which is so strange because I've never experienced that before. I consider myself pretty good looking and she commented on how well I dress. I'll write another FR soon from this summer where I got tons of positive comments on my physical appearance. She asks if there is other girls at school I'm interested in. I tell her that guys in general are not very picky, but in my case I would actually like to enjoy talking to the girl I'd like to hook up with.

Wrap up:
So we walk to the subway and part ways with a hug. She is a very cool chick and I would not mind actually having her as a friend since she is so direct and open, but I have tons of work at school and I will prioritize going out with other girls before we hang out again. I have another date lined up in two weeks so luckily I did not get too attached to this girl. What I am struggling with is the fact maybe all my assumptions from the start was wrong. Was she never interested in me? Did attraction run its course? If she is lying, why would she be so direct about everything else? Really makes you doubt yourself... It's not going to stop me though. It feels really good writing this down and it has made me stronger. I'm building that thick skin

Before I end this post I want to thank Chase for stepping up in the role of Morpheus and opening not only my eyes, but the eyes of others as well to the reality we live in. I also want to thank all of you guys for posting stuff on here and helping me and others in our quest for self improvement.

Until next time,

May you become that man that inspires other men

TVKTVK

 

[Chase]

Re: FR/FU: I'm only into white guys (first post)

TVKTVK-

You did well here. Welcome to the boards! Everything up until the date seems fine, with the date only going off the rails first with an overly-friendly setup, and then an awkward attempt to get back to her place that threw things off and put the nails in the coffin.

The line about only dating white guys is just a brush off remark; I wouldn't put any weight in it.

More specific remarks:

So I'm on exchange in North America right now and it's liberating because I even give less fucks about people judging me.

Good! You will settle in and establish more of an image you want to protect the longer you are settled in, so my advice to you is to you is try and front load a lot of action, connection-forming, and grabbing contact details and lining up hang outs with both cool guys and pretty girls as possible. Be the social connector guy as much as possible from the start, that way once it all shakes out and everyone starts to position themselves in a hierarchy you'll be near the top of it, and you'll additionally have enough momentum taking action that it'll be easier to continue, rather than fighting inertia like you will be if you don't get off to as fast a start.

I met this girl during the first day of orientation, she was probably the only girl that caught my attention from our exchange group. We were playing some get-to-know-each-other game and she made a scene about me screwing up her card. Now I assume that she just wanted me to notice her because she was giving me flirty looks when I told her I would make it up to her.

Sounds like pretty blatant flirting. She liked you.

The second week I initiate a conversation during the break and find out that she lives downtown with a roommate, but she has a lot of privacy. Now from this convo I assume it is on, but we keep getting interrupted by people all the fucking time so I don't get to ask for her number and I don't want her to think I'm chasing. Week 4 I get to talk to her before class and she agrees to help me print something out after class. Perfect.

All sounds good. I don't know how the subject of her having "a lot of privacy" came up, but generally when you're getting that sort of thing from a girl it's a big hint, yeah. Your read here seems to be on point.

Me - So you were saying you don't like hanging in groups?
Her - No, it's just that in big groups people seem to become shallow. I don't mind small groups. Why do you ask?
Me - I just wanted to ask for your number so we could hang out. We never see each other and I'd like to get to know you better.
Her - Yeah, sure.
In retrospect I don't know how strong my vibe was right here. Maybe I came off too platonic with my vibe? Anyways I had to bounce to my next class and we parted ways. 2 days later I shoot her a text.

Not bad. If you're worried about vibe, that probably means it could use work. BUT, you got the number. Next time, just keep vibe in mind and focus on being a little smoother.

Maybe a better close:

• You - So you were saying you don't like hanging in groups?
  
  Her - No, it's just that in big groups people seem to become shallow. I don't mind small groups. Why do you ask?
  
  You - Ah, just curious. Anyway, we should grab food or a drink sometime this week or next; I never see you around... but I'd like to.
  
  Her - Yeah, okay.

Me: Hey ......., hope your week's been good I can't wait for the weekend to come, I'm totally exhausted...
Her: My weekend started this afternoon and all I have been doing is watching tv haha Do you have any plans this weekend?
Me: Lucky you, haha Probably going to spend some time with my cousin, but other than that not much. What about you?
Her: Dinner, drinks and clubbing on Saturday, but that's all. (She then asked me a question about my family which I will cut out)
Me: We should meet up on Sunday though if you're not too hungover;-) Was thinking of heading downtown and doing some shopping
Her: Sounds good, just let me know when you're downtown!
After that we set up logistics.

Good. Minor tactical note: never use "not much" (exception: if you're goading her into taking the lead and asking you out or inviting you somewhere), as it can make you sound like you lead an uninteresting life.

If you snip out the "but other than that not much" part in the text you sent and add a brief description of what you'll do with your cousin, it makes you sound stronger / more interesting:

• Lucky you, haha I'll see my cousin for a bit this weekend; do some catching up and play a little air hockey. How about you, any big plans?

But that's minor. Overall, a well-handled text conversation!

I send her a text after I reach the mall. She's a bit late so I start shopping. She walks up to me smiling as I'm paying for my stuff.
After that we go to a cafe close by that she likes. We go straight to deep diving and she shoots me a lot of questions about my family. I answer most of them and maybe in retrospect I should have been more evasive? We finally get to switch over on her and she is doing 90 % of the talking. I only tell a similar story or two so we bond. We have a lot of the same family issues so I felt we had a really good connection. She is very open and direct and I respect that a lot. In retrospect I did not however 1. Throw any chase frame 2. Talk about relationships 3. Set a sexual frame. I did try to establish touch, but it didn't feel right and it did not warm her up.

Hmm, so again, not bad, and you clearly did an okay job with your deep diving to get her talking 90% of the time.

HOWEVER:

• 1. You invited her to come shopping with you, then immediately quit shopping when she showed up and took her to a café
  
  2. You mention maybe you should've been more "evasive", which probably means you suspect you were talking too much
  
  3. You mention difficulty touching, which probably means you were seated not so close together

On these:

• If you're going to invite her out shopping, at least do some shopping. Have her come around with you, do some window shopping, have her help you pick out a pair of jeans, do a little playing around with her and dress each other up in silly clothes and tease each other and grab each other. Don't immediately drop what you're doing and do something with her UNLESS she's already so invested by this point that the date is more of a formality and you just want to cut to the chase, but I don't sense this was the case here (you needed to build more connection / attraction / tension / etc.)

• Being evasive generally isn't ideal; however, you don't want to fact dump on a girl either. Use baiting (baiting), and focus on turning the conversation back to her each time after you answer some query of hers. This way it at least stays even, until you hit on a topic she really takes off on and gives you lots of details with

• When sitting down, do whatever you need to to make sure you and a girl are sitting right next to each other, and scrunched up together if at all possible. If she tries to keep a distance, just verbalize it - "Don't sit so far away; I won't bite," or "I feel like there's this big gulf between us; move over a little." If you're sitting close enough that your legs are already touching, or arms, or both, it makes any other touching you want to do later on LIGHT YEARS easier because both of your bodies are already in contact

After 1 hour I say let's go and she obliges.

Now here is the part where my plan was that we would chill back at her apt. Plan B was to find a bench somewhere and escalate from there. Mind you this around 4 PM and light as day.

The Ask:
Me: So do you wanna walk around for a bit or maybe chill back at your apt? (Applied Chase's tip of placing the desirable option last)

Okay, here's where some big problems start creeping in:

• 1. You're leaving to go pull after what sounds like an hour of moderately interesting / bonding conversation, but no real tension
  
  2. Your ask was way too weak for what you needed here - with fast pulls you must be STRONG (really, with almost any pull you want to err on the side of strength vs. tossing the ball in her court as you did here)

Check out this article, it's all about how to pull this off properly: How to Go to Her Place Smoothly, Even If You Just Met.

Moving fast is well and good. You get props for going for first date sex this soon! You will probably have an easier learning curve while starting out if you go for date compression; treat the first date as an informational date, expand it if it's going well, and see if you can sleep with her on the second date.

If she's clearly really into you, you can try to set something up for the first date, but in that case, make SURE you've got good logistics. That means either:

• Date is at or near to your place and you can just walk over or a short drive over or
• Date is at or near to some other place (her place, etc.) that you've already established works logistically

Trying to wing it on the fly with a girl who's interested, but not chomping at the bit for you, and all on a date of under an hour, is going to be very high variance. You'll get a few girls who are just really horny for you and weren't showing it and they'll go with it; a few more who will logically decide then and there, "You know what? Screw it, let's go"; and then all the rest, including many girls who are on the fence about you, who'll say, "Huh? What? Am I being propositioned already... like this? Wow, this is awkward," and then you've lost them or have a mighty uphill battle to get yourself back to somewhere not-horrible.

Her: Uhm, my apartment is kinda messy, I didn't get to clean up after last night so I don't wanna go there. Let's just walk a bit.
I SHOULD HAVE PUSHED HARDER HERE...but in retrospect this is the first platonic signal I recieved from her. If she wanted me to come over, she would have cleaned her apartment, right?

No, no... what's happening here is she is trying to defuse an awkward and uncalibrated invitation back. Pushing more here almost certainly would've led to her flipping out or getting super serious / super firm.

Had you run the date expertly and made the ask expertly, you'd have received a much softer messiness complaint akin to, "Are you sure? My place is SO messy! I'm embarrassed!" and you would've swept that right under the rug.

Me: Ok let's go for a walk.
So we walk and talk. And walk. And walk...
Over 30 minutes have gone when I finally spot a bench and tell her we should sit down for a little bit. I wanted to pull her into me and manhandle kiss her while we were walking, but we weren't isolated and it just didn't feel right. Just when I'm about to muster the courage to actually kiss her, she puts this bomb on me:

Wtf:
Her: So was this a date to you or hanging out with a friend? Because I see you as a friend.
Me: Uhm, I like you and I was just about to kiss you right now actually so yeah
Her: Yeah I rather you not do that. You're unfortunately not my type.
Me: I don't understand.
Her: I'm sorry, but I'm only attracted to white guys.
I HAVE LITERALLY NO IDEA WHAT TO SAY HERE (my parents are from South Asia)

The date should've ended after the failed invite home. At that point, she's just rejected your offer to take her as your lover, and now you're going to let her lead the interaction and just walk around with her awkwardly until she finds a way to end things.

Keep this in mind: when women reject you, they will pick any reason out of the sky to pin it on.

What happens is this: she likes you, thinks you're cute, hints that her place is private, trades numbers with you, goes out on a date with you. The date is sort of platonic and has some connection, but isn't that stand out to her. Then you ask her to decide between walking around aimlessly or going back to her place to shag. She was likely on the fence before, but now she's going, "What... REALLY?!" so she chooses to walk.

Now, as she walks around aimlessly with you, trapped walking with some guy she's just turned down for sex, she starts to dislike you more and more. She doesn't know WHY, she just knows it's something about you. So, her mind goes through a litany of reasons: "Why don't I like tvktvk? Well, it's not because he's smart - I like smart guys. And it's not his personality - that's fine. And he's handsome, and well-dressed. Umm... oh, *I* know! He's ASIAN! That's why he's behaving so oddly and why we didn't connect. And every cool guy I've ever dated or slept with has been white. Okay, I'll just let him know I don't date Asian guys and I only date white guys."

You can't put any salt in this stuff. I've seen lots of girls reject guys for some reason, and then immediately go get together with another guy who did everything right yet had that same attribute (e.g., girl says, "Oh, I only date guys who are taller than me, sorry," and then ends up hooking up with a guy even shorter than the guy she said that to; girl says, "I only date white guys," but you know she banged a black guy last weekend; etc.).

I had a Korean-American pal who specialized in being the "first Asian" of white girls he met in clubs and online. We used to joke about how some of these girls would tell him how it was so odd that they hooked up with him because they never dated Asian guys; we came up with a tagline for him that was something like "Welcome to your new Asian obsession" because he was turning all these girls into Asian lovers.

Women never give you an accurate reason for why they're rejecting you. If they did, you'd hear stuff like, "I'm sorry, I TOTALLY would've slept with you but your ask was too sudden and put way too much pressure on me to be a slut when what I really needed was for you to take all the responsibility and make it seem like it just happened so I can maintain the internal narrative that I am a good girl not out cruising for cock from anyone who offers it."

But no girl ever says that, because 1.) she isn't fully aware of it herself, and 2.) any guy she says that to will get upset, accusatory, and defensive, and drop an emotional shitstorm on her (or maybe even attack her if he flips out enough).

So instead, she'll just tell him, "It's not you; it's me," and walk away, because she knows guys can't handle the truth.

Me: Listen, I'm not looking for anything serious. We're on exchange and should have fun while we can. I like you and I thought that a casual relationship would benefit the both of us.
Her: I understand and I don't mean to be racist or anything, but it's just how I am. I'm only into white guys. I'm so sorry!
I let this sink in for little bit. And I realize there is nothing I can really do in this situation that I know of so I just tell her that she does not need to apologize and I understand.

The super advanced thing to do here is to stop and say, "Knock it off. We both know you were attracted to me earlier, and what killed it was the clumsy date and awkward invitation home. That's my bad. But don't go writing off an entire race because of one clumsy date. Tell you what, I'll make it up to you: I'm going to buy you some ice cream right now, and then we're going to sit and look at the lake. Deal?"

However, you probably won't be doing that for a few more years, and by the time you can do that, this sort of thing won't be happening to you all that often

In any event - don't beat yourself up too much about this. You're doing AWESOME to be getting this far as a beginner! It took me forever before I was inviting girls back or inviting myself to their places.

Keep up this pace and you will be racking up the girls and knocking 'em down like bowling pins before you know it.

And try not to take failures and rejections too personally... I know it's hard, but especially when the girl liked you originally, the reason it goes off the rails is almost always poor game that needs to be fixed. If she liked you enough that she was attracted, flirting, giving approach invitations, and agreeing to dates, you can trust that there wasn't anything wrong with your fundamentals or traits to get there.

Chase

 

[tvktvk]

Re: FR/FU: I'm only into white guys (first post)

Thank yo so much for the comments and tips Chase, it is an honor having you analyze my game. I also wanted to give you some more detail so you can better understand some of the situations (not trying to defend myself for the mistakes I made though).

1. After we walked out from the checkout we had this conversation:
Her - So is that all you need?
Me - As of right now, yeah.
Her - Did you come here all the way for only that?
Me - No, I came here to see you.

I was trying to state that I was here to spend time with her, not to go shopping. Maybe I'm already chasing her by stating this...

2. In the start of our deep diving in the cafe I kept my answers short, so she kept asking questions about me. I guess I did well here then? But before I could put the spotlight on her she would always shoot me another question. At one point I said, "Haha all these questions, when are we going to talk about you?" After that she did 90 % of the talking.

3. You are absolutely right about the touching part though. We were sitting pretty close, but not close enough for me to touch her often and not make it feel awkward.

4. So yeah, gotta work on vibe, chase framing, establishing touch, and especially creating sexual tension. But I have a feeling that before I get that first successful lay I wont be totally sure if what I'm doing is actually working or not. Sometimes I feel that I'm coming very sexual, strong and confident, other times I just feel insecure.

5. Definitely should have left after the failed close to her apartment, yup.

In conclusion I think this girl had qualms about other races and I didn't display myself as sexy enough during the date to be the first brown guy to have sex with. To quote you Chase, It wasn't me, it was my game. Maybe when she first met me she thought I could be that guy but then I turned out to be way too platonic. It's something I have struggled with for many years, being raised the way I was raised. What are some things I can practice to help me get rid of this? I personally dislike trying to be an asshole/douchebag, but is it maybe something I need to try out to be able to find that balance in the middle? I think Anatman wrote that the bmoc is just a step in his process to find the perfect middle ground... anyway. My ego is restored again after I cold approached a model yesterday. Stay tuned to find out how it went!