Is it worth working hard for anything when you can be happy with nothing?

[lux7]

I was listening to this presentation from a Harvard scientist on happiness.

A staple of happiness is that whatever you get and achieve, you happiness level will stay the same.

I've always believed at the end of the day a good life is based on one thing only: how happy you are.

Why not working on that rather than working (hard) on getting things that won't make you that happy anyway in the long run?


This is what a guy comments:
the same conclusions as Buddha 2,500 years ago. He said that when we learn to accept things as they are we find happiness. When we cease to strive for happiness in the future we find it in this moment. Getting what we want doesn't make us happy, being happy with what we have does.



http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_as ... n#t-289018

 

[Drck]

I really like this topic. I guess the short answer is that you should work on achieving inner happiness while also working hard on becoming rich, especially while you are still young.

I’m not a Buddhist but the teaching of Buddhism is great, it gives a lot of understanding of humans through understanding of self. I don’t consider Buddhism as a religion; in my opinion it is much closer to science than to religion.

The inner happiness is something like a natural state of a person. In western society, “normal” person gets “happy” when he achieves or accomplishes something – when he gets his diploma, wins some competition, makes great salary, buys luxury car, gets this hot girl(s)… The problem with this happiness is that it is goal oriented. You must get X to be happy, but once you get X the happiness is gone, and now you have to seek Y to keep happy. Once you get Y you will have to seek X to remain happy. You are never happy NOW, you are always moving the happiness to the future – only after you get X, Y or Z you will become happy. In western society there is always this great DESIRE to achieve X.

So you have to work hard to get X. But what if you can’t get the X? The great salary and position, hot woman, great vacations? What if you fail the competition for which you practiced for so long? You will feel miserable. You failed your dream of being happy. Your DESIRE will eventually cause you MISERY.

Example: Many people are still chasing the American dream. You work hard, you save money, you become expert in your field – and eventually, perhaps after many years of hard work, you will get rewarded- you become independent and rich. But this doesn’t really work anymore, there is only small number of people who reach this American dream. Other people also work very hard but they can’t get ahead of themselves, they lost house because of bad economy, their business is being destroyed by reckless ruling and enormous taxes… They keep Chasing this dream but they can’t really reach it, and it causes a lot of depression and frustration, a lot of misery…. There are a lot of pissed people out there, they want to work hard and get ahead but they really can’t… Their desire to reach the American dream makes them miserable…

Same with girls – if your desire is to seduce lots of girls but you are failing for some reason, you will be in misery.

So Buddhism teaches about this suffering, it teaches to be happy without any attachment. It teaches that you should drop this DESIRE to avoid misery, and once you drop it you will become naturally happy. You are happy NOW, and you don't need anything or anybody to be more happy. Which makes sense and is also true...

You can be happy without being rich or having great position. You can be happy without girls, you can be happy without education. You are just happy because you simply don’t desire those things, there is nothing or no one to Chase, there is nothing to win, there is nothing to achieve or compete against. There is no desire to achieve anything, accomplish anything, to be somebody…. All there is is happiness…

Ok, but this kind of happiness is a BS too. We all like nice houses with air conditioning and heater, we all like nice cars so we can get around, we all like girls. If nothing else, we all enjoy flushing toilet with toilet paper instead of living in the caves and wiping our asses with leaves…

So the happiness should be something in between – you want to get money because money is freedom and comfort. You might want to get some decent place that you call home, just so you can invite girls there or use that flushing toilet there. You might want to get reliable car so you don’t have to waste your time somewhere on highway in rain or snow. On the other hand, how much comfort and money do you really need? How many girls do you really need to seduce to be happy...??? You should learn to be happy without money and without girls… And once you became this happy you will actually find out that it is very attractive to girls - you don't chase, you are not clinging, you don't get anxious, you don't suffer rejections... and girls feel it, they want to be part of it...

So yes, having money is great, but do you really want to break your back because of that? I broke my back by working very hard in the past 10 years or so, I get decent money and I will most likely be making much more. I reached the American dream, relatively speaking, I even reached further than I ever dreamt of. But at the end I am always asking – was it really worth it? Was the hard work worth it? I always say yes, but there are real doubts on my mind…

 

[trashKENNUT]

I think there's a difference.

Striving and Happiness. People say "striving for happiness". but the thing is "striving for happiness" means by the laws of the universe, it sarcastically reflects "striving". There's no end result.

I tell myself not to be happy. Because while my emotions go up and down. I must realize that i am not.

Women are far more prone to this. It's like they need a fucking dick or cock to "stabilize them", 24/7. (Haha)

Zac

 

[Oskar]

I think this article series by Ricardus is relevant here: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-p ... tor-part-i

 

[Franco]

lucifer,

I think this boils down more to people not really knowing what they NEED to be happy rather than what they think they WANT to be happy.

If you watch too much MTV or anything involving famous stars and celebrities, the media always hypes these individuals up to be some kind of "fantasy" people that everyone should envy and strive to become. So as we grow up, we all view these individuals as the "target goal" for ourselves, and of course, only an extremely small percentage of us actually BECOME those individuals, and thus we're left depressed.

So instead of people really focusing on hobbies, interests, topics, etc. that REALLY make our heart beat fast, our cogs turn, and our eyes open wide, we strive after things that we are either (A) too lazy to actually put in the effort to achieve or (B) not even things that we actually WANT for multiple reasons.

Part of the reason I've found happiness with my life at this point in time is that I quickly recognized what things in life make me really happy (which include software engineering, video games, live music, and seducing women -- just to name a few), so I really focused on HOW I could get SPECIFICALLY those few things that really bring me the most joy. Most people focus so much on things such as, "oh, my life is cool, but how do I make as much money as that loser Justin Bieber by the age of 18?" that they forget to focus on things that are attainable and actually make them happy. However, if becoming Justin Bieber is REALLY what you want to do, you better be prepared to work your ass off to achieve it. And even then, you should learn to enjoy the small things that come with the journey of becoming a music star.

It's more about recognizing what individual things make you happy, and then working REALLY DAMN HARD to get those things where you want them to be. If you really want to seduce women, then you need to spend HUNDREDS of hours focusing just on that until you've achieved a level of success that makes you happy. If you really want a mansion and your personal home roller coaster, then you're going to need to work REALLY DAMN HARD making millions of dollars so that you can afford it. So you better be absolutely sure that a mansion and private roller coaster is REALLY what makes you happy.

- Franco

 

[lux7]

So yes, having money is great, but do you really want to break your back because of that? I broke my back by working very hard in the past 10 years or so, I get decent money and I will most likely be making much more. I reached the American dream, relatively speaking, I even reached further than I ever dreamt of. But at the end I am always asking – was it really worth it? Was the hard work worth it? I always say yes, but there are real doubts on my mind…

I know what you mean, one of the top regrets on the deathbed is "having worked too hard", and that's something to be weary of, I think, especially in nations such as USA and UK where holidays are much less than EU.

On the other hand, congrats on having achieved more than ever dreamed of, certainly not many can say that .

 

[lux7]

...
It's more about recognizing what individual things make you happy, and then working REALLY DAMN HARD to get those things where you want them to be.

Yeah, true, taking the time to recognize what really make us happy is key.

On the other hand, the topic of the audio speech was a bit different: whatever you get, either positive or negative, after a few years you're back to the same level of happiness as if it tnever happened -at least for most ppl-.
And, maybe even more interesting, as a tangent touched by one of the commentators, you can ditch the "materialistic external factors" to focus your inner self to achieve inner happiness without even depending on those (fleeting) external factors.

Quite different from the western mentality, especially American, where working hard to get what you materially wanted is often seen as the answer -and as a noble thing-.

Not saying it isn't, we need focused people to advance humanity, just that TED talk thing got me thinking quite a bit .

I guess at the end of the day there's more than one way to achieve happiness and nobody can be a teacher as different cultures -and mostly different people- find it in different ways.

 

[Marty]

It's more about recognizing what individual things make you happy, and then working REALLY DAMN HARD to get those things where you want them to be.

Agree. Just over 2 years ago, I lost around 50 pounds in approximately four months. In the process I learned more than I had ever known about diet and nutrition, exercise, general health, and how people perceive you based upon your appearance.

In spite of having a degree from one of the world's most renowned universities, I still regard the weight-loss achievement as perhaps my most rewarding accomplishment ever, in terms of how much I wanted to get it done and how much passion and focus I put into it. It sounds petty, but for me, at the time, it wasn't.

 

[Franco]

lucifer,

And, maybe even more interesting, as a tangent touched by one of the commentators, you can ditch the "materialistic external factors" to focus your inner self to achieve inner happiness without even depending on those (fleeting) external factors.

Yeah, although I'm not really sure how happy people are without ANYTHING material. You might think, "well this guy who's SAYING he's happy with nothing material seems to be happy." But maybe what makes that guy happy is having a belief and then making other people believe it through talks he posts and seminars he holds... which of course require money to fund.

Not saying that money is everything; although you should recognize how much money you'll need in order to accomplish something you really want to do. Money purchases freedom, so you need to recognize how much freedom you desire so you can also recognize how much money you'll need for it. Some people need very little money to achieve things that they desire, and others require a lot. But you just need to be sure that what you're going after is something you ACTUALLY desire, otherwise you (A) won't achieve it or (B) achieve it and won't be happy with it. =)

EDIT: Agreed, Marty. You knew you wanted it badly, so you put in the effort required to get it, and you were very satisfied with the result because you knew you truly desired it. That's what it's all about!

- Franco

 

[Drck]

It is actually quite interesting to compare Christianity to Buddhism.

In Christianity believers are promised afterlife in heaven. Heaven represents something like eternal life in happiness, peace, something “good” that will happen to the believer but only AFTER life. Since it will happen AFTER, the implication of this belief is that current life is not so good, the current happiness is not so great. Simply said, Christianity postpones happiness to the future, a person will be rewarded for his deeds sometime in the future, maybe tomorrow, maybe years from now...

Buddhism is different. There is no Heaven, no happiness after the person dies. There is no belief in some eternal entity (God) that rewards or punishes people for what they did. In Buddhism the happiness or misery is happening NOW, meaning the more the person is attached to things (money) or person (girls) the more he suffers, and the less he is attached to things or people the more happiness he feels. From extremer point of view, there is no Tomorrow (future) at all, it doesn’t exist. Which is by the way true, tomorrow really doesn’t exist, it is only a matter of our imagination. What exists is only the current moment, only NOW. For easier imagination, let’s say that the moment NOW is only the past 3 seconds, the current moment, and the next 3 seconds. Nothing beyond that exists, history is only a matter of memory and future is only a matter of imagination…

What exists in Buddhism is so called Karma. If you behave well, good things will be happening to you. If you behave bad, bad things will be happening to you. Of course it is not that simple, this World is too complicated, but in essence it is true. Here it is possible to compare Karma to Heaven (good) and Hell (bad) in Christianity. The difference is that in Christianity a person has to follow external rules – such as commandments that he doesn’t even understand – and if he doesn’t follow he will be punished (or forgiven) by God, whereas in Buddhism person understands where his good or bad behavior leads. Said differently, Buddhists know that if you for example keep spreading anger and hate among people it will multiply and eventually it might get back to you, which is a simple logical conclusion. Buddhists know that anger is just an emotion, and if the person is “attached” to the anger by dwelling on issues that make him angry, the anger simply becomes part of his personality. Angry people then chose different actions than happy people, and they will also receive different results back from other people. So in Buddhism you are simply punishing or rewarding yourself, depending on what actions you decide to take. If any…

Not being attached to things and people, not being attached to outcome of your actions (e.g. you go out and talk to girls but don’t really care if you get rejected or not) brings the person to natural state of mind. This state of mind can be perceived as happiness. Happiness because there is simply no stress, no worries, no desire achieve and thus no possibility of failure.

This Happiness is not emotional excitement as many from western civilization associates it with, it is simply natural state of mind. This happiness is also happening right now, there is no need to wait till future or afterlife happens… Buddhism also focuses on Awareness – not how to describe it but to improve it, expand it and live it…

In my opinion, there is a lot of great knowledge in Buddhism that modern society has yet to discover. Once a person grasps the understanding of Buddhism, modern psychology becomes more like a joke, though a good one…

 

[Drck]

Just over 2 years ago, I lost around 50 pounds in approximately four months.

Great job Marty, I wish I could do that!

 

[Big Daddy]

I think Franco articulates the words many times better than I would to say the same thing. On a side note, I'm learning to not over-stress about it, because everyone I know that finds a craft they love or what they truly love ends up realizing that that won't make them happy forever.

You heard about Tucker Max, right? Here's an interesting interview: http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelells ... he-game/2/. There he talks about how he thought that making it big with his writing would make him happy, and after hitting the #1 NYT best-seller spot, he wasn't as happy as he thought he'd be and started working on something else.

You might have a hint of what think you want to do today, so you go there and do it. Keep in mind that that will probably change over time. You age, your opinions change, things start or stop making sense... live with it. Right now, I want to live a life that 10 years from now, might lose its purpose, but I'm open to whatever thing I might end up doing after that. I don't envision myself giving up everything I own and moving to the top of a mountain and live life like that - but that's just me. You should do whatever "feels" right.

Marty,

Nice, man! I wish I could pack all that weight (muscle tissue!) in four months

 

[Glitch]

Really enjoy these types of discussions, for now taking a breather from girls now to do further my own interests during the summer break.

I think what has been discussed should always be held in the back of the mind. Like Drck posted I too take aspects of Buddhism and try not to put too much emotional investment in a certain goal.

'There's always more than one way to what you want'

What my Dad kept saying to me when I was a lot more hard headed and 'only one way oriented' than I am now. Just keeping this in mind has kept me going through a lot of tricky circumstances.

I'm personally in agreement with Franco's opinion, I think that material gains are needed to sme extent if you live in your typical city environment.

I think happiness is what is important to you. Nothing more, nothing less. With society and media it does have an influence over many people, this warps a person's perception of what happiness is. People then strive to live the celebrity life/particular lifestyle/image that they idolise, eventually that particular image becomes their happiness and sadly forget what they really want. It's kind of sad because I've seen this happen, even though it's most likely an extreme case.

Side Note:

Happiness/Perspective From Differing Generations

What do you gentlemen feel about the perspective of happiness or world views from differing generations?

I ask this because my mindset is quite different from my current generation. At a very young age I enjoyed those world view discussions and topics on war, famine etc. so naturally these were only discussed with older peers. Also I have found that it's seems that people that I interact with seem to lack a drive/determination or direction in life. Also have the typical a man should be a man too e.g lead, dominance. etc.

So this led me to the whole day game to seek out others with a similar mentality to myself, then at 16 learn the whole game stuff. Every girl I've been with has been older than me, they had that fervent passion with more than one interest whether it be in music, dance etc. I feel the same way, the only thing is that I can't dedicate hours upon hours to everything. Wish there was more hours in the day.

It's more likely just the person but this particular thing has been highlighted in my first year of University. It seems that people don't have the will/just lazy to put effort into something/they're worried about 'failing'/just unmotivated, which is nothing I can change.

Like if I asked people if they wanted to go excercise/ downhill biking/ rock climbing/ dance/ learn an instrument, why aren't you doing it? I get the typical politician's answer. They wonder how I am able to do these types or things, that I'm some super hardcore person. In fact I'm the complete opposite, those things are just interests I love doing. Whereas a lover will say "Want to learn how to play piano/ dance/ etc.?". I would jump at the chance as it's something new. Now I've suddenly got a new interest, currently practicing more on the piano as it's sparked up the interest to play harder pieces again. All thanks to a concert pianoist I was with.

To me it seems the majority of the people here have other interests with girls just happening to be one of them. Here I see thought provoking discussions such as this one, currently my mental stimulation is lacking day to day unless I'm with a lover or discussing these topics with my Dad, Uncle or best friend.

Has anyone else experienced this where there is a lack of direction or drive to do accomplish something? Individual trait or Societal impact?

Any tips on finding like minded people or just carry on approaching and filtering whilst joining like minded people involved in the activities I enjoy?

Glitch

 

[Nuncle]

To be honest, in the first world, where you can still have a nice enough house with a garden and still have disposable income on minimum wage, ambition is overrated.

I used to be very ambitious. It got me into management, which I found very stressful. Got pushed out of a job, was unemployed for a few months then went back to basic office temping.

The work was so simple and free of stress and I was well regarded in every assignment I went to. Still earned enough to live the lifestyle of a single man about town. Once you stay on an assignment for more than a few weeks, though, toxic office politics start to intrude again. My most recent assignment went permanent and already I spend a large part of my day having to deal with other peoples' bullshit.