FR++ It feels good to include a plus

[Kvothe]

I'm going to call this girl Ballerina.

So I met this girl while I was at a show with my friend. I'm dressed super bad, like jeans and a salmon t-shirt, and I just ate, so I feel kind of chubby. The girl sitting next to us at the ballet is in this elegant attire, and my friend tells me that I should talk to her. I do, and its indirect because I'll be sitting next to her for the next hour, so I'd rather not get a hard rejection and have it be awkward. Just some information like what she does, where she's from (she's a ballerina in the US for a few weeks taking classes, and she's from El Salvador). At the end of the ballet, I make some comments to her, and then tell her that I want to grab a coffee with her. She says yes. While we're exchanging contact, I compliment her on her dress by telling her she looks absolutely elegant. I also touch her on her upper arm while doing this.

Text messages (Credit to Richard/Zphix for the text outline, definitely helped a lot. I recommend checking their post in the Beginners stickied post):

Me: Great meeting you Ballerina! Save my number -Kvothe
Ballerina: Nice to meet you Kvothe
Me (next day): Hey Ballerina! Hope your Friday is going well What's your schedule looking like this weekend to grab some coffee?
Ballerina: Hey Kvothe! Is going good thanks! I am still not sure about my schedule, a friend is coming over to visit me, but I'm still not sure what we are doing.
When do you have time?
Me: This weekend I'm pretty free Sunday evening
Me: Saturday evening is also an option
Ballerina: Yeah, sounds good, I'll let you know if saturday or sunday
Me: Sounds good
Ballerina: Ok
Ballerina (next day): Hey
Ballerina: Do you still want to go for coffee?
Ballerina: Do you have time today?
Me: Yeah I have time
Me: How does 6:30ish work?

And then some more logistical stuff. Pretty dry and boring honestly, but from what I hear, that's the best way to text, plus it's the easiest, so I'll try to stick to it as much as possible.

So we meet up near my usual spot. I'm wearing maroon pants, and a navy half sleeve button up. I greet her by giving her a hug, and telling her she looks nice. I make a joke that she ditched her friends to come hang out with me (setting a chase frame).

We walk to a park nearby, and go sit on some chairs to enjoy the weather for a bit (It had been raining all day so it was the only time to enjoy it). I'm deep diving a lot on her life, passions, her time dancing, her life in El Salvador, and being physical too. I'm touching her arms, legs, and pulling her into me. I'm connecting to her on all these topics, and then tell some stories of my own travels.

I'm coming to realize that I am pretty lucky, in that I've done so much, that I have a lot that I can talk about anything. It's a good feeling to have.

We go inside to the coffee place to grab a coffee, and she has a hard time deciding what to get, so I suggest that we just share a mocha. She seems hesitant, so I make a joke asking her whether I'll catch a disease if she shares the cup with me. She finds this hilarious and says no, and then she seems happy to share the drink. We go sit in a booth, side by side, and just keep talking. I'm pulling her into me more, and trying to make it feel like more of a bubble. I think I did a fairly good job. We're both having a good time, and I think the physicality played a huge role.

Definitely the biggest change I've made to myself, and I'm honestly surprised by how comfortable girls are with me. I think by being more physical, and just taking things less seriously, I'm becoming more confident, and more comfortable in my own skin.

I suggest we go back outside to sit at a different edge of the park, mainly because the coffee shop is beginning to feel a bit stale. So we go sit, and this time I'm having a harder time figuring out what to talk about, so I just start yammering about different topics, and get her to talk a little about her friends. Now I seed the idea of us heading back to my place. I suggest that we grab some wine, and drink it at my apartment. She's like sure, and I play it cool, and continue talking about other topics for a few minutes.

Then I suggest we leave the park, because I feel like it's going to start raining. We walk to my apartment, and honestly, this was the part where I was the least comfortable, mainly because I've never done something like this on a first date before. My invitation was super bad and awkward, but I just pummeled through it. I guess I did well enough during the date that this was forgivable. Unfortunately, I can barely think of anything to say on the walk over, so there are a lot of pauses. I even mention that I can't think of anything to say, but more as a joke, and she laughs and completely misunderstands what I'm saying. We go to the wine shop, and I pick out this Rosé. We head back to my apartment, and I need to pee (go figure).

I show her around, then suggest we go back to my room since it's cleaner in there. We drink some wine, and I go for the kiss. She rebuffs me, but I don't let it get to my head. I have my arm wrapped around her and she's leaning pretty heavily into me on the bed, so I know it's probably a comfort thing. I ask her to show me some videos of her dancing. I go in for the kiss again and get rebuffed. Still cool in the head. I decide to lay down more on the bed, and get her to put her head on my chest. Some more talking and getting her to open up, while being more physical with the rest of my body. My head and lips are right next to hers, but every time I lean in, she pulls away. Putting my legs on hers, closer to her waist, wrapping my arm around hers. I go for the kiss again, and she tells me, "Kvothe, I really like you" and I just look at her, and say something to make her feel more at ease (I wish I knew what I said). I think I agreed with her by telling her that it was crazy how we met, but that it was a good thing or something. This time, I'm able to kiss her, and we start making out. I'm trying to go between making out, and talking, trying to get her comfortable. At some point, I just lift her shirt, and tell her to flex her abs, because she has some rock hard abs that make mine look inadequate. I also flip her on her stomach, and massage her back a little, and am able to take her sweater off. No luck with getting her shirt off.

She starts saying she should go, but I don't really think she means it, so I try dialing up the passion, and that works for a bit. I'm touching her boobs and stuff, and a little bit of dry humping, and her shirt is halfway up, but every time I go to get under her bra, she stops me. I'm playing cat and mouse where I move away before she can move my arm away, and trying to get closer to getting under her bra. Every time I try though, she stops kissing, and laughs. I don't think she minded the persistence, but she didn't seem to want to go further. She kept calling me crazy, and saying how crazy it was that we had basically just met (haha it's nice to hear that in person after reading so many other people say the same thing). I'm pretty cocky, like every time she says that she's thinking of how cute I am, I just shrug and say I know, or just look harder at her. Next time she says that she has to go, I try to understand why, and she just says that she isn't the type of girl to stay over. She tells me it's late, so I tell her that it's New York and that 10 is basically like 5 anywhere else. She agrees and she stays for another half hour. I'm still not getting anywhere with her bra or shirt. Now she says she has to leave again, and this time it feels more serious, so I let her get out of the bed and head out. She asks me if I'm angry, and I say no (I wasn't), but that I thought she was lying to herself about wanting to go. She says if she didn't want to go, then she wouldn't go. I walk her out, and kiss her throughout the goodbye process. When we reach the parting of ways, we kiss, and she says bye, and that she really had a good time.

Other interesting notes: she was asking some interesting questions/statements during the make out session (What do you think of love, do you believe in coincidence, how she was going to have an even harder time leaving now that I was here, how cute she thought I was)
She was also 22, and she could not believe that I was 21. She was just so certain I was lying haha. I told her that she was a cougar, that being young meant I had more stamina, and then just joked that I was 44, but used good moisturizer.

Overall, I had a really fun time. It was also the first piece of action I've had in over a year. It was also my first time having success via a cold approach. I'm really proud of my growth, and I can't wait to see more in the future. Also, she really seemed to like me, like she was telling me how nice I was, and how good of a person etc. When I texted her after the date, this is what I got back:

Me: Thanks for a fun night Let me know when you reach home!
Ballerina: I am home thanks to you, I had a great time

That honestly made me feel really good, because if a girl is happy after being somewhat intimate with me, and not feeling slutty, then I'm doing something right. On the other hand, by being super nice, I may have also relegated myself to boyfriend territory. But she is leaving NYC in a week so I figured that Ballerina knew that this wouldn't be a serious thing.

Only bad thing is that I had the worst case of blue balls ever afterward. Fuck me.

I would love to receive feedback, especially on how to overcome the LMR. I'm not sure if maybe I should have done something differently earlier in the date, or just taken it off in a fit of passion (which seemed a little off for my personality, so I think it would not have gone over well), or maybe finding some other way to convince her to stay longer.

Thank you to the entire GirlsChase community for the advice you've given me. Know that any additional advice you give will be heeded and implemented. Already used the advice from previous field reports saying to touch girls more, to not ask for numbers at the wrong time, and to move faster.

 

[foggy]

Hey bro - congrats on your first cold approach success. It's a great feeling to know that cold approach actually works!

Sounds like you made her feel some pretty intense emotions and possibly put yourself in the boyfriend zone by: 1) missing some escalation windows and 2) acting boyfriend-y...which causes girls to want to move slower with you.

And then some more logistical stuff. Pretty dry and boring honestly, but from what I hear, that's the best way to text, plus it's the easiest, so I'll try to stick to it as much as possible.

Quick idea here that I was thinking about today. You're right, the logistical stuff through text is usually dry and boring. It actually makes me uncomfortable - meeting a girl, clicking with her and it feels good and there's lots of emotions....then texting her later to sort out plans, and it's the total opposite. Dry and boring. Maybe even makes her think "is this even the same guy!?" I'm not sure.

When I'm getting a girl's number, I ask her for her schedule, make some vague plans with her, then set the frame that our next interaction will be boring as shit. I'll say something like, "yeah we can fully sort out all the bullshit and boring plan making stuff later." Then she expects it to be boring.

We go inside to the coffee place to grab a coffee, and she has a hard time deciding what to get

She most likely didn't even want coffee. She just wanted to see you...You set the frame that you were getting coffee though, and she rolled with your frame. I feel like you coulda just brought her back to your place instantly, or talked with her in the square for a bit.

I suggest that we just share a mocha.

That's a little bit boyfriend-y in my opinion.

I suggest we go back outside to sit at a different edge of the park, mainly because the coffee shop is beginning to feel a bit stale. So we go sit, and this time I'm having a harder time figuring out what to talk about, so I just start yammering about different topics, and get her to talk a little about her friends.

I think you missed an escalation window here. Was she acting different than earlier, perhaps a little quieter?

Other interesting notes: she was asking some interesting questions/statements during the make out session (What do you think of love, do you believe in coincidence, how she was going to have an even harder time leaving New York now that I was here, how cute she thought I was)

How did you reply to these questions? The first two are definitely to test you to see if you're boyfriend material.

I decide to lay down more on the bed, and get her to put her head on my chest.

That's also boyfriend-y.

But she is leaving NYC in a week so I figured that Ballerina knew that this wouldn't be a serious thing.

You're looking at this from a logical point of view. She's looking at it from an emotional point of view. In her head it's a thing.

I walk her out, and kiss her throughout the goodbye process. When we reach the subway, we kiss

This is something a couple would do. Next time you're in this sort of situation, try giving her a goodbye spank instead of a goodbye kiss.

 

[Kvothe]

kvothe wrote:
I suggest we go back outside to sit at a different edge of the park, mainly because the coffee shop is beginning to feel a bit stale. So we go sit, and this time I'm having a harder time figuring out what to talk about, so I just start yammering about different topics, and get her to talk a little about her friends.

I think you missed an escalation window here. Was she acting different than earlier, perhaps a little quieter?

I think you're right. She was a little quieter. I definitely should have moved faster. I'm still getting used to the entire process, and still learning to calibrate how fast I can move. Next time I'll try to sense a sooner "pull" moment.

kvothe wrote:
Other interesting notes: she was asking some interesting questions/statements during the make out session (What do you think of love, do you believe in coincidence, how she was going to have an even harder time leaving New York now that I was here, how cute she thought I was)

How did you reply to these questions? The first two are definitely to test you to see if you're boyfriend material.

Um, I think to the love, I said I'd never felt love for another girl, but I feel a lot of love/loyalty to my family. To coincidence, I said that there was no way I wasn't going to talk to her that evening.

kvothe wrote:
But she is leaving NYC in a week so I figured that Ballerina knew that this wouldn't be a serious thing.

You're looking at this from a logical point of view. She's looking at it from an emotional point of view. In her head it's a thing.

Didn't even think of that. Good point. I'll definitely have to tone down the boyfriend vibe. I need some better role models.

kvothe wrote:
I walk her out, and kiss her throughout the goodbye process. When we reach the subway, we kiss

This is something a couple would do. Next time you're in this sort of situation, try giving her a goodbye spank instead of a goodbye kiss.

Haha I'll have to try that. That is so far out of my current way of thinking, but definitely something I should do.

Thanks for the feedback Backstory, I appreciate it. I liked your idea on dry texting and setting up the idea that it will be dry earlier. I'll have to do that myself.

I'm also not sure how to handle the case where she just wanted to see me. It's not something I'm used to, so I don't know how to handle it, because I just assume I need more time to get her into me. Besides, a coffee seems like a lowkey thing to do, and I just figured it would be the right way to get the deep diving going.

With regards to heading back to the park the second time, the reason I did that was to seed the pull. We didn't actually go there for that long, we just sat down for like 5 minutes, and I suggested that wine would be fun, and then 5 minutes later told her that we were going to grab some wine. But I think you're right that I should have moved faster.

The other issue I'm having is just one of lack of abundance. I've never had a lot of choices with girls, so I guess I tend to try to squeeze as much as possible from a girl when I see her, which I why I kissed her a lot during the good bye. I honestly did not know when I'd get to kiss a girl again, so I went for it. Wrong choice, looking back, but I think the solution is to just get myself used to being around lots of girls, so I don't get needy with any single one.