Job as a Pickup Artist/Instructor?

[Garrett]

Hey guys, Garrett here.

For the past week I've felt a small surge of depression come back. I know Chase dealt with this too, but basically, you'll occasionally be provided with a 'reminder' of what you went through past episodes, and although you may think you're over it, it sometimes reoccurs in smaller 'doses' with the potential to progress.

Anyways, the reason I've been feeling a bit down lately is because I'm not sure what I want to do with my life. I'm 19 and my parents always raised me and instilled the belief in my of how important it is to get a job that is respectable and that earns a lot of money. I've always felt that although wealth is definitely helpful to make someone's life easier, it doesn't really alter someone's happiness. My goal is to ultimately be happy, work hard, and feel satisfied, and I don't feel that getting a high-status, work around the clock type job is what I'm looking for.

Also, I'm not that fond of education. Throughout my schooldays, including now, I was/am always near the top of the class, and could have been getting the highest marks; however, I just never felt passionate about what I was studying, and had no interest in the material.

This year I went into University with the aspiration of going into medicine until I realized the amount of time and effort I'd have to devote to learning something I hated/didn't care about. So after coming to this realization, I started changing up and even dropping courses, and have been puzzled every since about my future. In the summer before this term started, I stumbled across Chase's website and was immediately hooked on the content. I'd read the blogs religiously, with such determination and motivation to start acting on it right away. I've always known that I wanted to do something and find a passion, then work really hard and achieve excellence at it, but I had always fallen short... I had done music, sports, and education, and none of it I was overly passionate about. I still love music and soccer (among other sports), but I enjoy partaking in those activities as a hobby. Now, ever since I've discovered Girls Chase, I've been checking everyday for new posts, trying to implement new strategies and techniques, and to really improve my life in any way possible. Since I was even in elementary school, I've been clueless about girls, and despite having been in 3 relationships, I was getting into them by luck, and not through understanding. In my spare time, I'd always try to 'decode' female behaviour and was always intrigued with how girls behaved around me and the type of vibe I was giving off. Just about an hour ago in fact, I suddenly realized that maybe this was my calling after all...

So anyways, I had a chat with my parents last night and I never realized how open they were to allowing me to pursue whatever my interests really were. I didn't take away much from the conversation, due to their reiteration of what I already understand to be true, "You need to think about what you want and stop making excuses, pick something, and stick to it." Also, I'm going to list what I desire in a future occupation below...

- Be my own boss
- Work incredibly hard
- Something that has to do with mentoring/coaching
- Love psychology and the idea of social interaction
- Want to plan my own hours and devote spare time to mastering skills
- Want to have the feeling that I've never worked a day in my life because I love my job so much
- Stick with something

So from this list, I figure being a Pickup Artist, eventually transitioning to running bootcamps and individually working with guys, and even writing a book would be quite an exciting and motivating career. It has everything I could ever want in a career, and I can't wait to get started!

So my question is, do you guys think being a Pickup Artist has any commercial value? If so, do you think it will in the years to come? In other words, do you think this is a realistic dream job, and do you think an ever-changing society could have an influence, thus hinder the use of this skill set in the future?

Cheers, let me know your thoughts!
Garrett

 

[Franco]

Hey Garrett,

I'll let Chase answer this one completely, but my initial feeling is that, if being a pick-up coach was a lucrative way of life, then Chase probably wouldn't have to devote the amount of time he does to all of his other projects (such as this website). I think the thought of a career in something like this sounds amazing (and if you've ever seen the movie Hitch, then you might agree that it seems like it would be an awesome way of life), but I'm not sure if people place enough value on something like this to provide enough profit for you to maintain a steady living.

Learning to pick up women has never been something that mainstream society has seen as a "career" or a fundamental aspect of life. It also doesn't help that too many men out there (especially the hard-working ones who DO have the money to pay for coaching) don't believe in pick-up and just believe that "the right woman will come along someday." Even if you are able to convince them to begin working with you, it requires them to be extremely committed to thoroughly learning the skill, and they'll have to go through a lot of emotional stress just to get to where they would like to be. Most people won't pay to go through emotional stress if they don't have to.

You could make it your goal to change this way of mainstream thinking in men, but I would be lying to you if I didn't tell you that you would be giving yourself a huge mountain to climb as well as an enormous amount of criticism to deal with. The thing is, it's easy to be extremely passionate about something like this and pursue it on your own spare time while still having a developed career to give you your own place to eat and sleep (...with women). And I know this because I am currently working a full-time job as a software engineer for a defense contractor as well as starting my own business and practicing pick-up almost every weekend. It's a busy schedule, but it's very possible.

I don't want to misdirect you and your passion for something though. There is definitely a possibility that a career can be made out of something like this, and I believe Chase has one of the best chances of getting there, making him a great role model to follow. I'd be interested to know what he has to say about his time as a pick-up coach as well. He can probably provide much more insight. I'll see if I can guide him to this topic.

- Franco

 

[Chase]

Hey Garrett,

I'm traveling right now and a little pressed for time, but saw this one and wanted to drop in and post in case you're about to make any major life decisions.

So anyways, I had a chat with my parents last night and I never realized how open they were to allowing me to pursue whatever my interests really were. I didn't take away much from the conversation, due to their reiteration of what I already understand to be true, "You need to think about what you want and stop making excuses, pick something, and stick to it." Also, I'm going to list what I desire in a future occupation below...

- Be my own boss
- Work incredibly hard
- Something that has to do with mentoring/coaching
- Love psychology and the idea of social interaction
- Want to plan my own hours and devote spare time to mastering skills
- Want to have the feeling that I've never worked a day in my life because I love my job so much
- Stick with something

So from this list, I figure being a Pickup Artist, eventually transitioning to running bootcamps and individually working with guys, and even writing a book would be quite an exciting and motivating career. It has everything I could ever want in a career, and I can't wait to get started!

So my question is, do you guys think being a Pickup Artist has any commercial value? If so, do you think it will in the years to come? In other words, do you think this is a realistic dream job, and do you think an ever-changing society could have an influence, thus hinder the use of this skill set in the future?

Cheers, let me know your thoughts!
Garrett

It depends what your goals are, but teaching pickup is usually neither as lucrative nor as glorious as everybody gets in the habit of thinking it is. It's kind of like being an actor, or a porn star. Kind of a badass, cool-looking career from the outside, but it's fucking hard as hell from the inside, you tend not to have a very long shelf life in the business, and very few people make it to the top of the pile.

Every PUA coach I've known burned out of coaching within a few years. There are exceptions - there are some guys who are doing it year in and year out - but it's a pretty hard lifestyle. I've seen a lot of meteoric rises and colossal crashes in this business... a lot of guys who are making $100K coaching one year, and then the next year they're burnt out and their company falls into ruin because they just can't keep up with things anymore.

The most successful pickup coaching business out there is RSD, so far as I know, and they're doing I think a million or two million a year in revenues, or were. That might be more or it might be less now. Might sound like a lot, but they've got a lot of guys working for them, and a million distributed among a big group of guys - and all this after costs come out - ends up not being anything all that spectacular. And they're the best. Gambler's PUA Training did 800,000 GBP in its peak year I believe, but now it's resorted to trying to make money through adult dating affiliate ads last time I checked the site. The biggest real PUA business out there was / is David DeAngelo's Double Your Dating, which at its peak was I believe making $20 million a year across all its properties, including Catch Him and Keep Him (for women) and Eben Pagan's (David D.'s real name) business / marketing / efficiency training. But he doesn't do coaching; just products and seminars.

The main problem is what Franco mentioned: PUA isn't something most guys want to pay for. Guys who have a "money mentality" and work hard and get paid - the ones who'd probably be the target demographic because they're the ones who can afford your services - are coming from a mindset of "I need money / cars / an awesome house / bottle service in clubs / designer suits / etc. to get girls" and they're not interested in PUA ("Everybody knows you need money to get women!"). The guys who are most interested in PUA are the guys who don't have advantages like money, but those guys can't afford your services if you're pricing them at anything worthwhile for your time if you're good. You can try to educate the market, which pays huge dividends if you can do it (e.g., people didn't ALWAYS know that they needed BMWs or Mercedes-Benzes to be cool and sexy... cars used to be clunky contraptions that people laughed about, or commodities that people simply owned), but it's colossally, monumentally difficult to do, and extremely expensive.

Of course, we're talking big business; you might just be thinking enough to earn a living and have a cool life.

I don't think you can "just" do PUA and be long-term successful... e.g., David DeAngelo already had a background as a successful Internet marketer before he got involved in the PUA scene and took it over. You need something else to bring to the table than just teaching pick up, and you need to have a way to market yourself. Why is anyone going to pay attention to you? Marketing is HARD... it doesn't really matter how good you are or how good your material is, if you can't market it you won't get anywhere.

Training can be a good way to solidify your ability to teach - nothing forces you to sink or swim at giving guys advice than having to 1) perform to show them what's possible, 2) identify what they're doing wrong then and there in the moment, and 3) give them the right fixes to see immediate results that very outing, or do a pickup with them just so they can go through it and experience it and know they can do it too. But it's kind of like being an NFL running back - nice while it lasts, but once you're done, you're done. Only, you get paid a lot less than a running back.

Think of pickup training as good quick money if you're good AND you know how to market yourself, but it usually only lasts about a year before you're burnt out and can't do it anymore. You could get a job coaching for one of the big companies - RSD, PUA Training, and Brad P are the biggest coaching companies, so far as I know - but the pay there isn't all that great.

Another issue is the repetition: after a while, it gets a lot less interesting, and you keep hearing the same things over and over and over again. Older guys get married and have kids and leave the scene, and you're left with newer guys first hitting the scene going, "OMG, I took this girl on a date and we totally made out and it was awesome but now she won't reply to my phone calls or texts WHAT DO I DO???" When you're fresher, you really want to help these guys, but when you've been around a while you've REALLY got to check yourself to make sure you don't start going, "Great God in heaven, I've covered this a thousand times already! Why doesn't anybody listen?" But then you realize these are new people who are panicking and focused on getting their needs - which feel life-or-death at the time - met as soon as possible, and those are the kinds of people who find you and the emotional states they find you in. That's the business.

There's one other major problem with being a PUA coach too - it doesn't look all that fantastic on a resume. So, after you've burnt out a year or two in, and you're making the rounds interviewing for jobs, and they ask you what you've been up to the past few years, "lifestyle consultant" isn't exactly something that'll get you in many doors.

That's the bad. The GOOD is, if you can do it, you'll have a pretty cool, adventurous way to travel the world and get paid to do it. You'll go from city to city teaching guys (assuming you have some way of getting customers), and the pressure to perform means you'll step your game up by necessity and will pull things off with girls that even YOU didn't know you could. You'll get experience being the owner, manager, and talent in one, so you'll have experience building something from the ground up and making it work (assuming you go the independent route). It won't last forever, so kind of like the advice given to actors and football players, make sure you're saving your money and planning for what comes next. Get an education if you can. Develop a skill set you can use to build something later (like web programming or marketing or writing). You can also start profiles on freelancing sites like eLance or Guru or Freelancer or oDesk and start getting jobs doing things you want to learn how to do. Building up a freelancing profile is a good way to get a solid income stream within a few months or so and be able to get money virtually whenever you need it; I have a lot of friends who've gone this route to supplement their income while they figure out entrepreneurship. It's a neat way of getting paid to learn, provided you're pushing the envelope with each new job. But you should do it before you get big, and the ego starts getting to your head and you start thinking, "I'm big time. Why do *I* need to do some puny outsourcing job for this other guy?"

Much of the time with choosing a career, people fall into what they know and what they're around and what they've been exposed to... certainly happened to me with PUA; I never planned to start a business. Too much work. If I could do it over, I'd start my business in a different niche where there's more money on the table to build things faster and really explode their growth upward, but at this point I'm dug in and I'm going to make what I've got here work.

That's the business. It's hardscrabble, hard-fought, and tough as nails to win at, but if you've got spunk you can make it for a little while.

And if that doesn't discourage you and you're still chomping at the bit, maybe you've got what it takes.

Chase

 

[Garrett]

Re: STICKIED: Job as a Pickup Artist/Instructor?

Chase and Franco,

Thanks for the advice, I was really looking for a realistic explanation of what it would be like to work as a Pickup Artist. Based on your analysis and breakdown of what it would be like, I feel as though Pickup is probably something I should consider as something to do as a hobby on the side as opposed to a full time career. Franco, I think your lifestyle is more of what I'm looking for, a respectable career with an interesting hobby . If things happen to progress to something big from all the work I put in, so be it, but if not, that's fine too. I've got 5 years covered for University by my parents, and I am greatly appreciative of that as I've seen some of my friends having to break their back working full time meanwhile, simultaneously trying to achieve a degree. It would be wise to take advantage of the opportunity given because as you both mentioned, it's not exactly a secure job being a Pickup Artist! Having said that, I think anything is possible and it's good to dream big, but I also think in this day and age, with an economy where people are struggling to find jobs, I should do my best to find a secure occupation first. My plan is to work towards Medical School, and to provide myself with the most career options possible in order to find a secure, stable job. Eventually I can open up my own practice, but for now I plan on taking things day by day and taking more action as opposed to talking. To balance the work put in, I'll go out and meet girls for fun and partake in pickup, among other hobbies.

Chase, you raised a point only unique to those who have mastered the skill... the fact that you would have to continuously teach the same things over and over to newbies must be extremely tiresome/ boring! I notice that you usually comment on topics that are uncommon, probably because you've seen and done it all on numerous occasions. I've recently been looking at the work of Paul Janka, a Harvard graduate who basically learned the skill for fun and wrote a book and made money off that. You probably have heard of him, but if not, he's essentially teaching the same things as you, but not as accurate/in depth. I notice he'll hug/shake hands with girls at the end of interactions, his voice is not very masculine, and I remember him teaching guys that looks don't matter because they don't get girls approaching you. Anyways, his game is bit off by my judgment; however, I've seen you and him both successful at this interesting skill, so the advice is appreciated!

I'm sure you remember when you were my age, it's a confusing time and there's a lot to consider. Some people have no idea what they are doing, and are spending their time drinking and wasting their tuition, and there are a select few who have a specific goal and are working towards it, albeit not too many from my experience. Some kids are essentially forced to go into fields that they don't enjoy, some rebel, some work fulltime for minimum wage. It makes me wonder if high schools could do anything to help guide kids in the right direction. A lot of parents don't seem to be very good at this, so perhaps a guidance/life class could help kids understand what the real world is really like, and why they are going to school in the first place! I mean, I've had life pretty cushy and I'm not proud of that. My parents have tried to shield myself and my siblings from the harsh realities of the world that they had to face, meanwhile some kids are living on the streets, unaware of how they are going to get their next meal. Facing reality may be what I need to truly appreciate everything I have, but for now, I thank you, Chase and Franco, for helping me better understand a potential field of interest.

Cheers,
Garrett

 

[Jeet02]

Re: STICKIED: Job as a Pickup Artist/Instructor?

Man this is a problem I am currently dealing with myself. And I already graduated college with a degree and I don't feel fulfilled or passionate at what I am doing either. I am like you in that sense Garrett, I started geting into this, and I still have a LONG way to go, but it is something that definitely has grabbed my attention and has kept me passionate! I even thought about being a trainer/coach as well. Basically my mentality was (or maybe still is) to become really good at this so I can basically teach others how to do it as well. After reading this post I guess I would consider it a little bit more....but I still kinda wanna do it. I still feel there could be an "edge" or something, an "outside the box" kinda thing to make it worthwhile. Just like everything I guess.

Since we are on the topic, in a sense....how good is RSD? Is it really worth it at all? I know in The Game they just critiqued them as being robot creators. Where they would just teach lines and the guys would just repeat those lines and that was it. They didnt have any real essence to them. Contrary to what you teach, Chase, which is basically more of a personality builder. A self improvement kinda thing. Are they able to really get women that are actually hot? Or are they just full of it? Do they have any essence to it?

Cheers!
Jeet

 

[Tyme2k]

Re: STICKIED: Job as a Pickup Artist/Instructor?

Man this is a problem I am currently dealing with myself. And I already graduated college with a degree and I don't feel fulfilled or passionate at what I am doing either. I am like you in that sense Garrett, I started geting into this, and I still have a LONG way to go, but it is something that definitely has grabbed my attention and has kept me passionate! I even thought about being a trainer/coach as well. Basically my mentality was (or maybe still is) to become really good at this so I can basically teach others how to do it as well. After reading this post I guess I would consider it a little bit more....but I still kinda wanna do it. I still feel there could be an "edge" or something, an "outside the box" kinda thing to make it worthwhile. Just like everything I guess.

Since we are on the topic, in a sense....how good is RSD? Is it really worth it at all? I know in The Game they just critiqued them as being robot creators. Where they would just teach lines and the guys would just repeat those lines and that was it. They didnt have any real essence to them. Contrary to what you teach, Chase, which is basically more of a personality builder. A self improvement kinda thing. Are they able to really get women that are actually hot? Or are they just full of it? Do they have any essence to it?

Cheers!
Jeet

I participate on the RSD forums regularly and watch most of their videos. The owner/CEO is Owen aka Tyler Durden and there are many other executive coaches, each one has a different "style" but that's not what most teach. RSD teaches you how to build a life, improve yourself, and follow a process that works. Most of their content is free and they make money from hot seat and boot camps. Hot seat is a full day class with an executive coach where they show you in field footage and break it down. I got to see a glimpse of this from Owen in LA, he didn't break it down but let us watch a few videos. Some of the instructors have their own products available to buy. BUUUT the whole thing they teach... I don't know if you're ready to hear this...

They teach you don't need ANY of this stuff to get good with game. It's absolutely true. I can speak from experience that I do my best when I drop all my knowledge and plow. Once you're completely in the moment shit flows and becomes natural.. the second I get in my head its over.

I'm not bias really towards any available pickup/coaches, and I still read all of Chase's articles, his content and writing style is awesome. He puts quite a bit of effort into citing examples and proving theory instead of just spouting bullshit. Funny thing is when I was in LA I met Tyler/Owen introduced myself at a convention then ran into him at Roosevelt. After, I thought he was a dick head, he acted as if if were better than me. I have since realized that I was leeching value at the time and had nothing to bring to the table. I didn't quite understand things the way I'm only beginning to now.

All I can say now is RSD changed my life. Chase is how I found pickup and started gaming and I'm eternally grateful, but RSD really got to my core and helped me find the path I'm taking.

Off my soap box lol

 

[Richard]

Re: STICKIED: Job as a Pickup Artist/Instructor?

Garret, I too was a lot like you, same qualities and everything from the sports to the academics, and I presume you're a person who dedicates his efforts to something you're interested in, then excel really fast with it? And you generslly pay little to no attention in unrelevant or uninteresting things? The job you're looking for is exactly what I was looking for, when I got to my senior year of high school (this school year passed) I took 3 career solidifying classes: Sociology, Psychology, and AP Psychology. This is where I decided to major in therapy, and minor in business. Psychology fits your career goals, and I suggest you take a look into possible psychology careers.

 

[Mr.Sheen]

Re: STICKIED: Job as a Pickup Artist/Instructor?

Garret, to star off i completely understand where you are coming from while i am currently in college working towards a bachelor's. And i too was studying medicine from assuming it was what i wanted. I definitely took the physical route from training to be a Seal as a young boy (but was disqualified in medical screening for minor blood condition). I also went into the route of music and considered producing records at one point (but found i wasn't passionate enough about it). Interesting enough i knew guys who would jump off planes and helicopters facing death, yet never had the balls to ever approach women. At one point too had i started to question if i should try becoming a professional such as Mr. Chase and attempted at teaching on a interpersonal level with men (i did this for roughly a year).

I cannot say i have not mastered improvements to the same levels as Chase... but I honestly read Chase's response to you, while nodding my head with a smirk all the way through his response. The ability to actually enjoy my improvements with women was almost becoming phased out by the importance of having to find out what to teach other men, including the factor of having panicking situations with repetitive solutions to new comers. Not to mention the time needed for just application, but solidifying observations from every possible angle can be taxing and draining. -which is why i now owe so much respect to Chase for his route traveled in giving us a road map

I would like to add on to the subject as what things you personally value most will be play a big factor in knowing what you want to achieve. Because we all value multiple things, just some things more than others (put simply). such as-
-money/goods
-skill/knowledge
-ability to make a difference/be admired
-pleasure
-gratification
etc.. you get the point.

I would definitely recommend becoming a personal trainer in fitness, it is very easy to become certified and it really gives you a true feeling of what its like to be your own boss while making what you want settle with (perfect with school etc to figure out what you want). But all this comes at a price, being your own boss requires people skills, while being organized/responsible, and the ability to take actions with some risk involved.

The most successful trait in entrepreneurship is knowing the value of time is higher than money.. either way good luck in your choice

sincerely,

-Mr.Sheen