LMR with Girl + Agreement to Hang Out Next Day = Flake?

[Grand Pooba]

I'm starting to notice one pattern lately, where a girl and I are on a date or alone together, and we're all having a good time and she's getting turned on but also puts up some kind of LMR when we're alone together, usually after we have started kissing and done some mild physical stuff but always before some kind of penetrative sex. It gets to a point where she's turned on but suddenly just HAS to leave or doesn't want to go further, but ALSO agrees that we should hang out the next day and continue whatever we were doing, or a new activity. She comes up with the plan, we agree to do it and part ways and now we're both pretty much going home alone.

Anyway, the next day comes around and she backs out of the plan we discussed in person, whatever that plan is. This typically happens via text, and she'll have some obscure reason as to why she can't do the activity anymore.

This has happened 3 of 3 times this situation has come up, so I'm seeing this as a pattern.

I'm curious to know:
- What exactly is this? Is it auto-rejection, or something else?
- Why is it happening?
- What are some offensive or defensive strategies to avoid this happening or predict/deflect it ahead of her setting this situation and then backing out of it?

 

[Marty]

Ozzo:

Not sure this is 100% relevant to your particular recent experiences, but have you read this?

We Are Not Having Sex Tonight: What Happens When You Don’t

-Marty

 

[PrettyDecent]

You may get a kick out of this, too: http://www.boytoystory.com/escalation-guide/

 

[Marty]

You may get a kick out of this, too: http://www.boytoystory.com/escalation-guide/

Nick, great link! This fellow is clearly of the Amante School, whether he knows it or not What he says about pushing your hand down her pants and panties simultaneously makes a lot of sense to me, also taking the initiative to place her hands on your body.

What is out of scope of his article, but equally important I'd guess, is subcommunicating implicitly that you will in fact act this way once you get her isolated. If she fears you won't "be a man", my guess is she'll be reluctant to get private in the first place.

Another thing that really hit home was his point that if you want to neck like a teenager, do it after sex. What could be more exciting for a girl than a man who goes for and takes what he wants, then rewards her and treats her like a valued equal afterward?

 

[Franco]

You may get a kick out of this, too: http://www.boytoystory.com/escalation-guide/

Good link, PD. That is very much how I escalate these days, especially the part about waiting for that moment when you can jam your hand down inside her panties and begin fingering her. My success rate with LMR sky-rocketed once I realized that getting your finger inside can almost always be the difference between her logically battling her reasons for not having sex with you versus her emotionally craving you sexually. Once a girl has a "little something" already inside of her, you better bet your ass she'll soon want a "big something" inside of her!

Only note I would mention to his escalation guide is that condoms can break the flow of events and cause her to change her mind, even at the last minute. These days, I only reach for a condom on the first time being intimate with a girl if I feel like there's a good chance she doesn't have anything I should be worried about. If you are going to reach for the condom, however, do not even mention what you are doing, and try to wait until she is literally dripping wet from you fingering her so that she logically has no reason to object during that 10-15 second period where you slip one on.

I hope this helps with your issues, ozzo. =)

- Franco

 

[Whizzy]

Nice quick read for sure

 

[Grand Pooba]

You may get a kick out of this, too: http://www.boytoystory.com/escalation-guide/

JACKPOT! Thank you for linking this, Nick.

I'm reading the whole thing and, also based on everyone's comments, I realize now that I've been doing it ALL wrong. I'd say my process in the seduction location, usually my place, followed what this guy terms "slow escalation to sex," and it's typically been like:
she comes in, takes off her shoes > go grab water as she waits in the living room > give her water, then drink from it, take it away and kiss her passionately but slowly and romantically > move to couch or bed > massaging + clothes coming off > foreplay > sex

I've always thought that girls take a while to really get heated up, and that slow and passionate kissing/escalation is what turns her on (sensual romantic foreplay). It sounds like what I'm actually doing is kissing her slowly and diffusing the emotional tension, thereby allowing the logical brain to kick in and stop her from having sex.

What I noticed with my date this past weekend, who did come to my place and give LMR, and I wasn't even able to take ANY of her clothes off, was that she put up ZERO resistance to anything when I first kissed her as we were standing and she had been inside my place for about two minutes, and I could feel that she really wanted more. On the flip side, as soon as we moved to the couch to watch tv and continue (a transition point?), her logical brain kicked in. I thought about this later and it makes sense in this context, because I essentially went so slow I diffused tension and let her think about what she really wants. Is there a way to save this situation if I see her again, or have I screwed myself to going at her pace, if I ever see her again?

Naturally, now I have lots and lots of questions:
- Slow escalation is counterproductive because it gives her time to think, and makes you seem more like a boyfriend. So how fast should you be escalating? Is it supposed to be that you're just grabbing her, throwing her against the wall and just ripping off her clothes before she even realizes what's going on? Sounds like all this happens in under five minutes.
- The right way to do this is to grab other parts of her body dominantly (ass, hair) as you kiss her really quickly?
- How long between starting kissing, and pushing her onto a couch/wall/bed, and putting your hand in her pants?
- You don't start to escalate until you are in exactly the physical place you'll be going all the way? As in sitting on a bed, perhaps.

That is very much how I escalate these days, especially the part about waiting for that moment when you can jam your hand down inside her panties and begin fingering her. My success rate with LMR sky-rocketed once I realized that getting your finger inside can almost always be the difference between her logically battling her reasons for not having sex with you versus her emotionally craving you sexually. Once a girl has a "little something" already inside of her, you better bet your ass she'll soon want a "big something" inside of her!

How long does it take to jam your hand in her pants? Especially if she's wearing a tight belt of some kind? Or perhaps she has on stockings/leggings and a tight multi-layered club dress.



Marty,

Not sure this is 100% relevant to your particular recent experiences, but have you read this?

We Are Not Having Sex Tonight: What Happens When You Don’t

I just re-reviewed this article, I hadn't really paid much attention to this before, will have to study it thoroughly. Seems like resolving this is a new focus in my own journey.

What is out of scope of his article, but equally important I'd guess, is subcommunicating implicitly that you will in fact act this way once you get her isolated. If she fears you won't "be a man", my guess is she'll be reluctant to get private in the first place.

Can you, or someone else, elaborate on this? How do you sub communicate that you're basically going to go all out if and when she comes over? I guess what is confusing to me is that she wants sex, and she knows implicitly that's why she's coming over even if it isn't outright stated, but also puts up walls to you being a man with her. Why would she be reluctant to get private?

What could be more exciting for a girl than a man who goes for and takes what he wants, then rewards her and treats her like a valued equal afterward?

I have to start thinking with this mindset from now on, thank you. I clearly haven't been.

I'm going to do the opposite of what I've been doing from now on...focusing on really fast, intense escalation.

 

[Franco]

she comes in, takes off her shoes > go grab water as she waits in the living room > give her water, then drink from it, take it away and kiss her passionately but slowly and romantically > move to couch or bed > massaging + clothes coming off > foreplay > sex

ozzo,

Everything up until you kiss her here is fine, including the passionate kiss, which is also part of my style. When you start out kissing a girl, you actually want to be very gentle and have it be very sensual with your lips touching very lightly. Within the first ten seconds or so, I'll often pull my lips back a couple centimeters and say something like, "I like your lips..." and then begin to curve my mouth back into a sexy smile while she smiles back and engages kissing again. Usually at this point, things needs to move rather quickly though.

Once the girl starts using her tongue, it's game on. You need to be moving and caressing all parts of her body to get her more heated up for what's about to come. You're probably correct in stating that all of this happens in about 5 minutes or less, but it's not "high-speed" from the beginning. You start out slow and sensual, but then you quickly ramp up the speed as the sexual tension builds up. Within minutes, you should both be having each of your tongues down each other's throats and caressing each other's bodies all over... this is when you want to make your move for placing your hand on her crotch. You stimulate her through her pants/jeans/skirt and, if she lets you do that, you should be going for her panties within 10 to 20 seconds of doing this.

Slow escalation is counterproductive because it gives her time to think, and makes you seem more like a boyfriend. So how fast should you be escalating? Is it supposed to be that you're just grabbing her, throwing her against the wall and just ripping off her clothes before she even realizes what's going on? Sounds like all this happens in under five minutes.

Obviously situations are going to vary based on the girl and the environment, but things should generally go at the pace I described above.

The right way to do this is to grab other parts of her body dominantly (ass, hair) as you kiss her really quickly?

Yes. I generally like to caress and squeeze the lower parts of her body as my hands make my way up to her pussy. Women actually like being squeezed and grabbed dominantly this way -- it communicates that you're a strong man who is going to be dominant in the bedroom.

- Franco